Home Back to the Mommy Wars ...

[vespergirl]

I know the Mommy Wars have been a big issue for the past couple of years, and with Sarah Palin running for VP, the issue is currently in the forefront. I saw this article in Newsweek today, and thought it would be good message board fodder - it will be interesting to hear what everyone thinks about this, from both sides of the debate:

To Work or Not?
A new study finds that children of privileged families fare worse when the mother works outside the home. But what does the research really tell us?

linky: http://www.newsweek.com/id/158462

 

[oobiecoo]

I probably have an unpopular opinion but...

In MY experience and observations, moms from lower income families HAVE to work and don't like the idea of being pulled from their child for 8 hours a day. When they get home from work, there are obviously chores to do but the moms will also spend a lot of time with the child playing and learning to try to make up for them being in daycare.

It has been MY observation that many (not all) of the higher class, higher income families around me often have a different family dynamic. Often times these families have nannies anyway and many of the children feel they don't get much attention from mommy or daddy. In these cases, the mom doesn't HAVE to work but chooses to. When she comes home from work, her priority may not be spending time with the child because she knows she has the nanny to take care of that. It often causes problems with the kids.

I realize this isn't the case for ALL working moms either way, but it is what I have experienced in my own life and seen in my friend's lives.

 

[vespergirl]

Hi oobie, that''s an interesting observation. I totally agree that the issue of moms who HAVE to work should be off the table - obviously it''s better parenting to feed & clothe your kids by going to work, than to not work to support them if that''s what you have to do.

The article talks about the effect in high-income households, like you mentioned with the nannies. I think that the Mommy Wars is really an issue of those high-income moms, who have the choice to decide whether or not to work for personal reasons, but because the income is needed to support the family.

 

[Black Jade]

I don''t think you can make judgments about Moms working/not working and I think the ''Mommy Wars'' are a lot of media hype.

I speak as someone who now has children in their twenties (and one is who is a young teenager) and as someone who knows a lot of mothers, both my age and younger, in my community and church.

I think most mothers are going to find that their lives are hard to put in one category or another--you will likely end up working for part of your life as a mom and not working at other times. Depending on what seems best for the kids. People patch together all kinds of things. Some work part-time, some work at night, some change careers to more child-friendly ones, even if it means less income--people do all kinds of things, trying to do what is best for their kids. Each mom is different--and each kid is different, too. Kids have different needs.

I would say that if at all possible, it is optimum to have some time off from work when a baby is just born/very young. The situation that we find all too often where the mom has to run back to work within a week or even a month after a child is born is misery for all for many, many reasons. Even women who thought they were in total agreement with the (rather impractical) feminist ideas on this subject will find they miss their child at this age, and it makes it impossible to even TRY to nurse, you are getting no sleep, it''s just misery. But obviously society is set up now so that a lot a women, maybe even the majority have to do this. I would also say that many moms who have stayed out of the work force for years tend to try to go back when their children hit middle-school age (wanting to pay for college and all that). I think that there needs to be awareness that a child who has hit the rebellious teen years is likely to need MORE supervision at this point, rather than less. It is probably good to try to arrange hours so that you can be home when the kid gets home from school and avoid the thing whether they are having friends over for secret parties or talking to internet predators in chat rooms, if you can manage it. At this stage a father who can rearrange work hours/work out of home is a benefit, too. I think that fathers at home are a little less use with babies, though I am sure that there are those who will think this statement is politically incorrect. However, a man can''t nurse and men seem to be wired where they play with very young babies nicely but tend to be a little sensitive to things like when they need to be changed and hugged, etc. etc. less nurturing, for lack of a better word. Maybe your husband is an exception, but in general, that''s what I have seen.

I think you can pretty much expect your career to take a hit once you have a kid and definitely once you have two kids, and once you have more than that...This works at all levels of career, and in fact I think professionals get hurt worse with this. It happens that I went to Yale. Many of my women classmates who were lawyers, doctors and professionals had careers just like men until they were about 35 and had their first child. Then they found that they had to make choices that often meant falling behind the men--and a lot of them also found that they suddenly didn''t care that this was the case, as they found the child more important.

I think that you can see this as a problem, or as a potential strength, as the kid gets older and you find you again have the mind/ambition and that you get creative about how you are going to handle things. Many mothers don''t exactly have the career they planned, but have a great one, in different stages. We have seen now what the PTA can lead to!

I think its great that Palin is in the public eye as a role model for women who are smart and capable, and not ashamed of wishing to be mothers, and the mothers of more than one kid. For so long we have been put into boxes that don''t really fit. I was a college professor. I worked at two different colleges, one was Catholic and one was a women''s college with a feminist bent. I got pregnant and the Catholic college was very supportive with women with families and especially supportive as I had a very unhealthy child. At the women''s college though, they were furious at women who did not pretend/try to be just like men. A colleague of mine got pregnant. She was told that it was fifteen years since the last woman professor got pregnant there, and that she had had her child during Christmas break and never missed any work, and my colleague needed to do the same. Missing any work for reasons of pregnancy was weak and inexcusable.

Last thing I need to say is that as a mother you need a network of other women who can help you out. Whether its a play group, or other moms at your job, or a group of women at yoru church (MOPs is a group that comes to mind, I wish they had had that when my kids were young), or supportive grandmothers, or whatever--you need other women once you have kids. and I speak as someone who went to men''s schools when they had just recently accepted women, and spent my youth competing with men in places where it was all men.

Black Jade

 

[oobiecoo]

Date: 9/12/2008 4:22:49 PM
Author: Black Jade
I don''t think you can make judgments about Moms working/not working and I think the ''Mommy Wars'' are a lot of media hype.


I speak as someone who now has children in their twenties (and one is who is a young teenager) and as someone who knows a lot of mothers, both my age and younger, in my community and church.


I think most mothers are going to find that their lives are hard to put in one category or another--you will likely end up working for part of your life as a mom and not working at other times. Depending on what seems best for the kids. People patch together all kinds of things. Some work part-time, some work at night, some change careers to more child-friendly ones, even if it means less income--people do all kinds of things, trying to do what is best for their kids. Each mom is different--and each kid is different, too. Kids have different needs.


I would say that if at all possible, it is optimum to have some time off from work when a baby is just born/very young. The situation that we find all too often where the mom has to run back to work within a week or even a month after a child is born is misery for all for many, many reasons. Even women who thought they were in total agreement with the (rather impractical) feminist ideas on this subject will find they miss their child at this age, and it makes it impossible to even TRY to nurse, you are getting no sleep, it''s just misery. But obviously society is set up now so that a lot a women, maybe even the majority have to do this. I would also say that many moms who have stayed out of the work force for years tend to try to go back when their children hit middle-school age (wanting to pay for college and all that). I think that there needs to be awareness that a child who has hit the rebellious teen years is likely to need MORE supervision at this point, rather than less. It is probably good to try to arrange hours so that you can be home when the kid gets home from school and avoid the thing whether they are having friends over for secret parties or talking to internet predators in chat rooms, if you can manage it. At this stage a father who can rearrange work hours/work out of home is a benefit, too. I think that fathers at home are a little less use with babies, though I am sure that there are those who will think this statement is politically incorrect. However, a man can''t nurse and men seem to be wired where they play with very young babies nicely but tend to be a little sensitive to things like when they need to be changed and hugged, etc. etc. less nurturing, for lack of a better word. Maybe your husband is an exception, but in general, that''s what I have seen.


I think you can pretty much expect your career to take a hit once you have a kid and definitely once you have two kids, and once you have more than that...This works at all levels of career, and in fact I think professionals get hurt worse with this. It happens that I went to Yale. Many of my women classmates who were lawyers, doctors and professionals had careers just like men until they were about 35 and had their first child. Then they found that they had to make choices that often meant falling behind the men--and a lot of them also found that they suddenly didn''t care that this was the case, as they found the child more important.


I think that you can see this as a problem, or as a potential strength, as the kid gets older and you find you again have the mind/ambition and that you get creative about how you are going to handle things. Many mothers don''t exactly have the career they planned, but have a great one, in different stages. We have seen now what the PTA can lead to!


I think its great that Palin is in the public eye as a role model for women who are smart and capable, and not ashamed of wishing to be mothers, and the mothers of more than one kid. For so long we have been put into boxes that don''t really fit. I was a college professor. I worked at two different colleges, one was Catholic and one was a women''s college with a feminist bent. I got pregnant and the Catholic college was very supportive with women with families and especially supportive as I had a very unhealthy child. At the women''s college though, they were furious at women who did not pretend/try to be just like men. A colleague of mine got pregnant. She was told that it was fifteen years since the last woman professor got pregnant there, and that she had had her child during Christmas break and never missed any work, and my colleague needed to do the same. Missing any work for reasons of pregnancy was weak and inexcusable.


Last thing I need to say is that as a mother you need a network of other women who can help you out. Whether its a play group, or other moms at your job, or a group of women at yoru church (MOPs is a group that comes to mind, I wish they had had that when my kids were young), or supportive grandmothers, or whatever--you need other women once you have kids. and I speak as someone who went to men''s schools when they had just recently accepted women, and spent my youth competing with men in places where it was all men.


Black Jade

That part was terrible. Its a shame that so many employers and academic institutions take that attitude toward career women who also want children.

 

[SilverLily]

Why is it that nobody bats an eye if a dad chooses to work when his wife makes enough money for the family? However, in a family where the man is the breadwinner and the woman doesn''t HAVE to work but may WANT to work, people question why a woman would want to leave her children. You never hear about men agonizing over whether to stay home and have his career take a hit, or go to work. It is also women that have to make this tough decision.

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 9/12/2008 5:23:28 PM
Author: SilverLily
Why is it that nobody bats an eye if a dad chooses to work when his wife makes enough money for the family? However, in a family where the man is the breadwinner and the woman doesn''t HAVE to work but may WANT to work, people question why a woman would want to leave her children. You never hear about men agonizing over whether to stay home and have his career take a hit, or go to work. It is also women that have to make this tough decision.

No, women choose to make this tough decision. Most (not all) men don''t let the fact that they are fathers impact their work. They don''t stay home when the kids have a fever. They don''t leave early to drive them to ball practice. They don''t say they can''t work overtime because they have to pick up the kids from daycare.

As long as women choose to let the dads take a pass, then they will always be looked at funny in the workplace. Gender aside, as an employer which employee do you want, the one that puts the company first, or the one who has "commitments" that impact work? It''s only about gender because as women we let it be about gender. Tell your husband that your career is as important as his, and let HIM stay home with the sick kids.

I didn''t agonize. I paid people to pick up the slack so I could concentrate on my career, just as men do. If being a mommy is important to you, then don''t complain that it''s hard to be both traditional mommy and respected career woman. You made a choice. It''s not reasonable to ask employers to look the other way about your choice IMO.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/12/2008 5:39:04 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 9/12/2008 5:23:28 PM
Author: SilverLily
Why is it that nobody bats an eye if a dad chooses to work when his wife makes enough money for the family? However, in a family where the man is the breadwinner and the woman doesn''t HAVE to work but may WANT to work, people question why a woman would want to leave her children. You never hear about men agonizing over whether to stay home and have his career take a hit, or go to work. It is also women that have to make this tough decision.

No, women choose to make this tough decision. Most (not all) men don''t let the fact that they are fathers impact their work. They don''t stay home when the kids have a fever. They don''t leave early to drive them to ball practice. They don''t say they can''t work overtime because they have to pick up the kids from daycare.

As long as women choose to let the dads take a pass, then they will always be looked at funny in the workplace. Gender aside, as an employer which employee do you want, the one that puts the company first, or the one who has ''commitments'' that impact work? It''s only about gender because as women we let it be about gender. Tell your husband that your career is as important as his, and let HIM stay home with the sick kids.

I didn''t agonize. I paid people to pick up the slack so I could concentrate on my career, just as men do. If being a mommy is important to you, then don''t complain that it''s hard to be both traditional mommy and respected career woman. You made a choice. It''s not reasonable to ask employers to look the other way about your choice IMO.

Good for you PP. And I agree with you up to a point. Weren''t you a single mom though? If I were, there wouldn''t be a whole lotta room on whether I''d go back to work. I also remember you saying you really did have a hard time giving up yourself and putting your needs second.

Bottom line for a lot of women is what is best for the child. Is dad the bread winner or mom? Well, if dad is, most would agree to let dad keep working so they can save for the future wellbeing of the family. If mom is the breadwinner, there is often a discussion to be had (and I find a lot of modern couples DO have this discussion).

Yeah, maybe we women "choose" this. But there IS a gender difference on how we view our children combined with just the logistics of having children. We have to bear the child. We have to heal from it, giving us several weeks to stay at home, bonding with the child when fathers (especially in America) don''t get paternity leave. We breastfeed the child. WE have a jumpstart on developing feelings for the child.

So yeah, we agonize. IMHO, it''s more the norm than women who don''t agonize, because hey, we''re moms and we have feelings that are just different from men.

Personally, I can have my cake and eat it too. I work from home and can be with my child. I am the family breadwinner, so there is absolutely no talk about me needing to quit my job. If I DID work out of the home, then TGuy and I would discuss if he would quit his job because *I* make more money and have the potential to earn more. Then he would stay home and give her the care and love that only family can. Simple economics because financial security is very important to the family.

 

[vespergirl]

Really interesting posts you guys - keep ''em coming! It''s really interesting to hear all of the feedback. Black Jade, that story about the university expecting you to take no maternity leave is frightening! How sad that maternity leave is still frowned upon in this country.

I will write more later ...

 

[icekid]

I find it extremely unfortunate that some are so bent on dividing women over this issue. Because in the end, we ALL want the same thing. We want to raise healthy, happy children. We want women to have the same career opportunities that men have. We must acknowledge that each family must make their own decision. Each family must weigh the pros and cons for themselves and decide what is right for their individual family. There is no one size fits all answer here.

I would not, could not ever stay home full time. Simply, it''s not a job that was meant for me. I love children and am looking forward to having a family someday, but being at home all day is not an option. I''ve worked far too hard to throw away my career. Staying home does not fit my type A, needing constant stimulation personality. In my opinion, this does not mean that I cannot be a mother or that I will be a lesser parent. In addition, the competitive side of me wants to show my children that women can do the same things as men, if not do them better. If *all* mothers give up their careers for their children, I admit that I am afraid that we will only move backward and never attain any real semblance of equality.

for the record, my dad (who has a successful career) DID leave work early/ shift hours to take my very talented younger brothers to hockey tournaments and practice. Sometimes even to the doctor, though this job far more often fell to my mother. If/when we have children, my husband will go to the doctor''s appointments and either he or our nanny will make sure the kids are picked up from school and promptly at their after school events.

 

[SilverLily]

Date: 9/12/2008 5:39:04 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 9/12/2008 5:23:28 PM

Author: SilverLily

Why is it that nobody bats an eye if a dad chooses to work when his wife makes enough money for the family? However, in a family where the man is the breadwinner and the woman doesn''t HAVE to work but may WANT to work, people question why a woman would want to leave her children. You never hear about men agonizing over whether to stay home and have his career take a hit, or go to work. It is also women that have to make this tough decision.

No, women choose to make this tough decision. Most (not all) men don''t let the fact that they are fathers impact their work. They don''t stay home when the kids have a fever. They don''t leave early to drive them to ball practice. They don''t say they can''t work overtime because they have to pick up the kids from daycare.


As long as women choose to let the dads take a pass, then they will always be looked at funny in the workplace. Gender aside, as an employer which employee do you want, the one that puts the company first, or the one who has ''commitments'' that impact work? It''s only about gender because as women we let it be about gender. Tell your husband that your career is as important as his, and let HIM stay home with the sick kids.


I didn''t agonize. I paid people to pick up the slack so I could concentrate on my career, just as men do. If being a mommy is important to you, then don''t complain that it''s hard to be both traditional mommy and respected career woman. You made a choice. It''s not reasonable to ask employers to look the other way about your choice IMO.

Whoaaa...hold on a minute...I never mentioned anything about women letting their work suffer because they had kids. What I meant was that SOCIETY (or just women, really) make other women feel guilty for working when they don''t really have to for financial reasons. You never hear about men being made to feel guilty for choosing to work. Many men and women make a working mother feel guilty for wanting a career, and that guilt can affect even the strongest career-minded woman and maker her question her decision to have a career.

Now, once a woman makes the decision to have a career, I do agree with you that she needs to make her husband share in the responsibilities of raising the children. If both parents work, then both should take turns in staying home with sick children, taking time off for school events, etc.

Oh, and my husband and I own a business, so none of this stuff applies to me. It has just been what I have observed with other women and on other message boards...women are made to feel guilty for working when their isn''t a financial need to do so. They are supposed to WANT to stay home with their kids full time. Men never get that kind of judgement. THAT was my only point.

 

[gailrmv]

did anyone have luck finding the original article? i tried to look it up (I have access to the academic journals) but did not find it published yet. I'd rather read the original than the newsweek summary; sometimes a quick summary like that misses the boat.

My post refers to women and policy in the US.

I've done a good bit of reading on this subject in the academic and popular press and of course have friends who are moms and careerwomen, dealing with these very issues. I think many women would like to take a few years out of the labor force or go part time but a lot of academic research has shown that she will never be able to catch up (in terms of her salary, job responsibilities, and career progression) to where she would have been had she not left the labor force, or where a man with similar credentials and career path would be. There is a large wage gap in between mothers and non-mothers (+ men). Non-mothers have a very small wage gap compared with men. interestingly, fathers also have a small wage gap compared with non-fathers. well, this was true when i did some research about 2 years ago at least and i doubt it has changed much since then. A very interesting book on this subject is The Price of Motherhood by Anne Crittendon.

my point is, a woman may want to and can afford to take a few years out of work, but she can't do so because her career will NOT be there waiting for her when she wants to return. She may have to start at a much lower level or even from scratch unless she has been great about keeping up her network, skills and credentials, and has good luck too. Wanting to stay out for a few years does not mean you want to exit your chosen career altogether - yet it can lead to this, even if you had not intended it.

i am by no means an expert but it seems to me there is much that the US can do policy-wise to help working women and families. FMLA is about all we have (which guarantees 12 unpaid weeks off without losing your job for maternity or other family leave or illness, if you work for a large enough organization and have been there for at least a year). It is so much less than what most other countries have in terms of job guarantees and maternity leave...

Women work hard to get their education and succeed in their careers. They may or may not want to give it all up when they have a baby. I think we should respect the choice of each woman/family while trying to make the workplace more family friendly (for men and women).

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I think it is a completely personal decision, and that it is how a mother chooses to spend time with her child that makes the difference.

My Mom stayed home with me. I loved it. I loved coming home from school, and having my Mom there. She went on all my field trips, was a scout leader, and room mom. We''re very close and that is due impart to the quality time we had together.

But, if/when I become a parent, I will work. Not because I must to pay the bills, but because the world is a difference place and I enjoy what I do. I will adore my child, and cherish my time with him/her. When the time comes, I will employ a wonderful nanny/babysitter to care of him or her in my absence...but knowing the whole while that whomever is watching my child isn''t responsible for developing my baby into a good person, that is solely my and my husbands job.

I think quality time matters most of all when it comes to raising a child. Regardless of your economic standing, you can raise a child well or fail them miserably. You can easily teach them how be responsible, compassionate, contributing members of society...and you can do that while you work, or if you stay home.

I respect whatever a womans decision is when it comes to how she spends her time. I don''t believe working vs. nonworking moms should be a battle.

 

[pennquaker09]

If I may, I would like to provide my experience and observations.

Even though my mom and I have a great relationship now, it took us a long time to get to that point. However, to be fair, the same applies to my relationship with my dad. This probably sounds so much worse than I mean it, but I think not having either pf my parents at home made me feel extremely lonely. My mom''s desire to work was a leading factor in my parents'' divorce. I think it was unfair of my dad to put that pressure on her, but there were a lot of things that I understand now, that I didn''t understand back then.

My situation is a lot like what oobie and Black Jade described. For a long time, I think my mom had to work harder to prove that she deserved to be were she was and having kids and all of the things entailed with that wasn''t much of an option. We had a discussion about this and even though it hurt my feelings, my mom said she didn''t go to Harvard to stay at home. I don''t know if I''ve made myself understand that, but I really get what she was saying. I''m extremely proud of my mom, and I turned out okay, so her working didn''t screw me up. in all fairness, either one of my parents could have stayed home, however.

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 9/12/2008 11:30:57 PM
Author: TanDogMom
did anyone have luck finding the original article? i tried to look it up (I have access to the academic journals) but did not find it published yet. I''d rather read the original than the newsweek summary; sometimes a quick summary like that misses the boat.

My post refers to women and policy in the US.

I''ve done a good bit of reading on this subject in the academic and popular press and of course have friends who are moms and careerwomen, dealing with these very issues. I think many women would like to take a few years out of the labor force or go part time but a lot of academic research has shown that she will never be able to catch up (in terms of her salary, job responsibilities, and career progression) to where she would have been had she not left the labor force, or where a man with similar credentials and career path would be. There is a large wage gap in between mothers and non-mothers (+ men). Non-mothers have a very small wage gap compared with men. interestingly, fathers also have a small wage gap compared with non-fathers. well, this was true when i did some research about 2 years ago at least and i doubt it has changed much since then. A very interesting book on this subject is The Price of Motherhood by Anne Crittendon.

my point is, a woman may want to and can afford to take a few years out of work, but she can''t do so because her career will NOT be there waiting for her when she wants to return. She may have to start at a much lower level or even from scratch unless she has been great about keeping up her network, skills and credentials, and has good luck too. Wanting to stay out for a few years does not mean you want to exit your chosen career altogether - yet it can lead to this, even if you had not intended it.

i am by no means an expert but it seems to me there is much that the US can do policy-wise to help working women and families. FMLA is about all we have (which guarantees 12 unpaid weeks off without losing your job for maternity or other family leave or illness, if you work for a large enough organization and have been there for at least a year). It is so much less than what most other countries have in terms of job guarantees and maternity leave...

Women work hard to get their education and succeed in their careers. They may or may not want to give it all up when they have a baby. I think we should respect the choice of each woman/family while trying to make the workplace more family friendly (for men and women).

See, this is the part I don''t get. Yes there is a "Price" of motherhood if you allow it. The fact that women lose ground in their careers when they leave the workforce for a year or so is a fact. Why should that be an issue that the employer or the US needs to address policy-wise?

It should be the Price of Parenting, not the Price of Motherhood. Mothers who want to take that time off need to own up to the fact that THEY are differentiating themselves from the average man. This isn''t anyone''s problem except theirs IMO. You can have a career and compete head to head with everyone regardless of gender, OR you can put being a mommy first and take some time off to enjoy motherhood. It sounds like some women want to have it BOTH ways with no impact to their career? If women saw that parenting was equal to mothering, both men and women would feel the career impact to taking time off to parent.

We make it a woman issue. It really isn''t. Men have enough sense to know that you don''t disappear from your career for two years without sacrifice. If women choose to make that sacrifice then so be it. If men take the time off they have the same issues.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 9/13/2008 12:51:22 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 9/12/2008 11:30:57 PM

Author: TanDogMom

did anyone have luck finding the original article? i tried to look it up (I have access to the academic journals) but did not find it published yet. I'd rather read the original than the newsweek summary; sometimes a quick summary like that misses the boat.


My post refers to women and policy in the US.


I've done a good bit of reading on this subject in the academic and popular press and of course have friends who are moms and careerwomen, dealing with these very issues. I think many women would like to take a few years out of the labor force or go part time but a lot of academic research has shown that she will never be able to catch up (in terms of her salary, job responsibilities, and career progression) to where she would have been had she not left the labor force, or where a man with similar credentials and career path would be. There is a large wage gap in between mothers and non-mothers (+ men). Non-mothers have a very small wage gap compared with men. interestingly, fathers also have a small wage gap compared with non-fathers. well, this was true when i did some research about 2 years ago at least and i doubt it has changed much since then. A very interesting book on this subject is The Price of Motherhood by Anne Crittendon.


my point is, a woman may want to and can afford to take a few years out of work, but she can't do so because her career will NOT be there waiting for her when she wants to return. She may have to start at a much lower level or even from scratch unless she has been great about keeping up her network, skills and credentials, and has good luck too. Wanting to stay out for a few years does not mean you want to exit your chosen career altogether - yet it can lead to this, even if you had not intended it.


i am by no means an expert but it seems to me there is much that the US can do policy-wise to help working women and families. FMLA is about all we have (which guarantees 12 unpaid weeks off without losing your job for maternity or other family leave or illness, if you work for a large enough organization and have been there for at least a year). It is so much less than what most other countries have in terms of job guarantees and maternity leave...


Women work hard to get their education and succeed in their careers. They may or may not want to give it all up when they have a baby. I think we should respect the choice of each woman/family while trying to make the workplace more family friendly (for men and women).

See, this is the part I don't get. Yes there is a 'Price' of motherhood if you allow it. The fact that women lose ground in their careers when they leave the workforce for a year or so is a fact. Why should that be an issue that the employer or the US needs to address policy-wise?


It should be the Price of Parenting, not the Price of Motherhood. Mothers who want to take that time off need to own up to the fact that THEY are differentiating themselves from the average man. This isn't anyone's problem except theirs IMO. You can have a career and compete head to head with everyone regardless of gender, OR you can put being a mommy first and take some time off to enjoy motherhood. It sounds like some women want to have it BOTH ways with no impact to their career? If women saw that parenting was equal to mothering, both men and women would feel the career impact to taking time off to parent.


We make it a woman issue. It really isn't. Men have enough sense to know that you don't disappear from your career for two years without sacrifice. If women choose to make that sacrifice then so be it. If men take the time off they have the same issues.

I think it is not a mother issue. It's a family issue. Is it a good idea for both parents to leave their 12 week (or less) infant in day care or with a nanny 60+ hours a week so that both can have their professional careers and not lose ground? Is this good for society? Some say it's fine, but I would not want this for my family, and neither do a lot of women. However, what if the woman could work half time for the first year - or take a year off, etc. Does this mean she should be forever penalized in her career? I do not think so. Maybe if the option were available a man would take time off and let the woman resume her career full force. I just don't think that flexibility exists for men or women in the majority of workplaces.

It IS a price of parenthood, not just motherhood, if you would read my post carefully. The wage difference is between involved parents and non parents but women tend to be the more involved parent and take the brunt of it according to that book's research.

the reason i think that policy should improve is this: The whole society benefits when kids are better looked after. Yes, it inconveniences the employer if a woman is out for an extended period, absolutely. But I think there should be better inroads for a woman to come back to work. Sure, you can't be in two places at once but society NEEDS involved, happy, well rested moms to raise good kids and also, many women need (for various reasons not just financial) to work and arguably, the workplace relies upon the talents of its well educated and well trained female workforce - so I do think that it is a societal/policy issue.

From my understanding in Canada a year's maternity leave is guaranteed, even partly paid. Look at women like LitigatorChick and some of our other Canadian moms on PS who took that time to adjust to motherhood and came back to work fully committed to the job. In some other industrialized countries day care is subsidized so that it makes sense financially for more women to continue working (society shares the cost of the day care). I think the US could improve our policies for family leave, is all I'm saying.