Avery upset shopper after my appraisal

[korbini]

Hello All!

After going to a reputable jeweller in upstate new york, we bought a 2ct j cooured egl cert diamond with two trillion .75 on either side.

the egl / store appraisal says I have a J coloured 2.18 diamond vs1 with a g/h trillions

appraised at $17,400.

the leweller said "i made it a little lower so you wouldnt pay so much in insurance


well i live in canada and submitted this to the insurance company who noticed i bught the ring in ny. The said I neded an appraisal from a reputable jeweller here and in canadian dollars.

They gave me a list of approved jewellers here and I took it in.

I was given a detailed appraisal stating the centre stone is

l/m in colour and 2.0ct in weight - (could be slight diifrence due to mounting)

and side stones were (h/i) - (could be slight difference due to mouting)


$23k in cdn dollars

I called the jewller and were playing phone tag.

Is this normal or is it usual to have something like this be so off due to its mouting?

any help would be appreciated,

 

[dageman]

I dont know much at all compared to some people on here, but from what I've seen it is quite common for EGL certs to be 1-2 colour grades off from other "more reputable" certs such as GIA or AGS.

It is possible that the mouting had an effect as well, but you said you had J and now its L (2 grades) and also G/H and now its H-I (1-2 grades). Just seems too typical for EGL certs to be due solely to the mounting.

My 2c

 

[lyra]

Yes, it''s normal to get differing opinions. Try searching here about EGL certificates. They are sometimes out on colour and clarity by a couple/few grades. You might also get difference of opinon because the stone is mounted.

I guess what you need to do is talk to the jeweller, and decide if you want to return the ring, or keep it as is, or possibly try to negotiate a settlement.

 

[surfgirl]

First of all, you should be using an appraiser that is NOT a jeweler! Unless your appraiser was an "independent appraiser" - meaning s/he is not a jeweler and has no affiliation to any jewelery stores, dealers, etc. - then get the stone re-appraised at an independent appraisers before doing anything rash. I''m not sure why your insurance company told you to go to a jeweler but it''s very common for jeweler''s who appraise to be a bit negative so you''ll doubt what you have and then buy from them instead.

That said, do you LOVE this ring? If yes, then talk to the person you bought it from and tell them the situation and get a second appraisal to confirm that it is really what they''re saying it is...Then decide if you want to ask for a refund for the difference of what the fair market value is worth, or to simply return it for a full refund.

And yes, it isn''t uncommon for EGL certs to be off by one of even several grades, which is why if you do a search here, you''ll see most people strongly advise against EGL stones. Good luck.

 

[korbini]

I don''t know if this means anything but the Insurance agency did advise of the top 6 stores in canada who use independant appraisers to avoid conflict. So im not sure if that is considered to be any diffrence.

 

[aljdewey]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the comment that most people here strongly advise against EGL stones. Most here counsel against EGL-Israel stones as they have earned a notorious reputation for ridiculously soft grading.

EGL USA stones can represent an attractive option IF you're the right kind of shopper. EGL USA doesn't have the same consistent/stringent reputation that AGS/GIA does, so if you're an unsure shopper and don't have a great appraiser in hand, it's typically easier to stay with AGS/GIA. Also, many of the folks here value the upgrade options vendors offer, and those are usually limited to AGS/GIA stones. Hence, AGS/GIA stones fall much higher on the PS preference radar.

IF you are a shopper trying to squeeze the most out of a budget...... and IF you have a solid appraiser you can trust to evaluate the stone....and IF you negotiate a decent return policy with a vendor (so you have time to get an EGL stone appraised).....and IF you have the patience to possibly 'kiss a few frogs' before finding the right one, then EGL stones might represent great potential for you.

Korbini: What does $23K canadian translate to in US dollars? I'm assuming the $17400 figure was US dollars? I'm trying to determine how much the actual delta is between what you thought you got and what you got.

 

[korbini]

well buying a stine in the usa is cheaper than in canada as the taxes are tremedeous so $23k in canada is now about 22k in the usa.

however, im just a little concerned as my insurance company wont insure me without a canadian appraisal, as well i dont want to settle for l/m diamond if i loose this ring

 

[Jessdoll]

Not to be rude but $17,400.00 seems very inexpensive for everything. I am looking to purchase a 2ct, J, VS2 for approx. $16,500 from an online vendor which given my research seems reasonable.

 

[DBM]

frankly i''m a little lost.. they appraised it lower as l/m and lower weight.. and then they appraised for the high value of 23k canadian dollars????

am not fully following but one thing i will say... as a 2 carat l/m color based on the rap list 23k is waaaaaay off. hard to believe jewelry prices in canada would be that much different than ny...

if anything i''d wonder if the insurance company is playing games to try to get you to insure for a higher value than is necessary... i''ve never had any problems with customers from Europe or Canada saying in-house company appraisals that we''ve provided to them weren''t good enough for their insurance companies...

 

[bee*]

Date: 1/9/2008 12:45:35 AM
Author: DBM

if anything i''d wonder if the insurance company is playing games to try to get you to insure for a higher value than is necessary... i''ve never had any problems with customers from Europe or Canada saying in-house company appraisals that we''ve provided to them weren''t good enough for their insurance companies...

Yeah I''m in Ireland and I was told that I could send in my US valuation to ensure my ring. In the end, I got a UK appraisal as I wanted it to have VAT included for my valuation.

 

[denverappraiser]

There are 3 different issues at play here.

1) Complying with the insurance company requirement. Usually this is pretty easy. Ask your appraiser in NY to restate the appraisal in Canadian Dollars and include the VAT. They’ve already inspected the piece so they should be able to do this without seeing it again. I suspect they’ll be happy to cooperate since they’ve got a fairly big sale here if you explain to them the problem.

2) The color. EGL-J is not on the same grading scale as what most other people use but it may not be all that relevant to the insurance company what some other appraiser or even GIA thinks of it. EGL called it a J and, in the case of a loss, they will need to replace it with another stone that EGL has called a J.

The selling jeweler called it a J and you’re second grader is calling it an L/M. This is an important difference. We’re no longer talking about insurance here, we’re asking whether you got what you were told. You are comparing the relative credibility of 3 experts: EGL, the selling dealer and your chosen appraiser. Each have their issues and at least one of them is wrong. You need to decide whose opinion you find credible. Call up the jeweler and make your case (assuming that you find the appraiser more credible than the jeweler/EGL). Often they will want to choose an independent arbiter, perhaps GIA or perhaps some mutually agreed independent to make the call. On a 2 carater this is a pretty big deal that should affect the price by thousands of dollars and it's what I recommend you concentrate your efforts on at the moment.

3) The value conclusion. If you have answered the color question, you probably already know what a reasonable prices is since you’ve just shopped for the stone. Insurance companies hire some pretty savvy shoppers to do their replacements and they don’t just pay whatever price the appraisal lists. If you can get it for less, they can probably get it for less as well. The value for a replacement type policy should be sufficient to replace the item with another of like kind and quality in the case of a loss, usually in the local market and with the benefit of the bargain where they use their buying power to beat up the jeweler.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver