Attorneys With Children

[SarahLovesJS]

Hi everyone! I don''t usually post here, I usually post in LIW and the Bride''s thread, but I thought this might be a good place to ask for advice. I am currently a college student and trying to decide if I want to go to law school. Did anyone here go to law school? If so, was it as crazy expensive as it looks? Did becoming an attorney make it more difficult to have children? I do want to have children in the future (like 6-8 years from now). Also, I am kind of trying to figure out what kind of law I would try to go into so does anyone have any advice on areas of law that require less hours? I don''t believe I am the huge law-firm try to make partner type. So any general law school and then law school and family advice would be great! I really love learning about law and I want to go into a career that has semi-flexible hours where I can help people. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, and thanks in advance!

 

[diamondfan]

That is pretty broad information!

I am NOT a lawyer, but I had been interested in going to law school as a newlywed and decided against it. Instead I went to graduate school and got my masters in counseling psychology. I wanted kids much sooner, and had a hubby in a very high pressured career, and so I had to make some honest assessments about how I wanted to do things.

If you stay away from those big firms, it might be best. In the US the big firms are about billable hours. You tend not to make partner without billing something in the 80-100 hour a week range. My husband uses lawyers at every big firm in the US and these are men and women with families, and they are in their offices at 7:00 am (or earlier) and still there at 10:00 pm. many a night. And weekends too. Crazy hours. And most firms, the big ones, are really looking for you to turn out those numbers, since of course that translates to money in their pocket. Certain deals can generate millions for each firm involved each year.

I have a great friend who went to Yale undergrad and law school. She started out on one side of things, thinking she wanted to be a defense attorney in a large New York firm. It simply was not for her. She is now on the other side and does property rights law at an agency in DC. She is much happier. She loves what she does and while she works hard, she still can carve out a life for herself. Not everyone is cut out for the pace required in some of these firms, and there is a place for everyone I would like to think!

 

[moremoremore]

I am a lawyer...but with no kids yet...and that has nothing to do with law. However, to answer your questions-

YES, it is CRAZY expensive. I graduated in 1999 and it cost me, with room and board, over $100,000.00...and that was a middle of the road school

Yes, you can have kids and practice. With the experiences of my friends...can you do heavy trial work at a top firm or work at a top firm? No. No. No. The billing they will want is crazy and trial prep is crazy. My friend at the DA's office went from homicide trials to "intake" desk work after the baby for regular hours. You CAN find 9-5 jobs with good hours, but be prepared to make very average money. In my opinion, a good paralegal makes more and has a better quality of life. Just be 2 cents. best of luck. Public sector work will usually be more 9-5 or 9-6...

P.S. Don't go to law school. It sucks. HAHAHA Being a lawyer sucks. LOL I moved to NC last month from NY and will NEVER practice again. I'lll scoop poop at the local animal shelter before I ever do that again. Miserable, soul-less work in my opinion. I know some who LOVE it. I have no idea why LOL...Maybe they enjoy believing their own b-s, listening to themselves talk, getting abused by judges and miserable court employees...But then again, it IS possible to find an area that you like to practice. If you want to help people, legal aid is a thought..just prepare to be poor....

My closest friends in law school don't pracice anymore... One even writes children's books.....She wrote Click Clack Moo, Cows that Type, which was a NYTimes best seller!

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Both my parents went to law school. My father is still practicing and my mother retired and now works in a jewelry store. I can''t tell you about the law school part, but I can tell you about the kids part. I was ten when my mom quit being a lawyer. She tried to partial hours but she discovered that there are no part time lawyers and had to decide to leave the buisness. I know a lot of lawyers and although not all of them work too many hours, they all do work a lot of them.
My two pieces of advice if you want to go that route are these:
1. Pick a type of law that doesn''t have a lot of trials. They make your schedule a lot less flexible and so neither of my parents did them very often.
2. Choose your lawfirm carefully. Because my mom was one of the best and worked at a firm where she was the only real estate lawyer she got all of that work the clients brought in which gave her a lot more hours.
My dad is also among the best in the city, but as one of a few corporate litigators in his firm, not all of their work falls to him. It works well because if one person has to travel for a client, they will handle the other firm clients in the area so less time is spent overall.

 

[Independent Gal]

So much for womens' equality.

It's so disappointing.

Sarah, you can also have a look at the balancing work and family thread on this page if you want, where some of us have been confronting similar questions. Here's the link:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/advice-on-family-work-balance.77917/

 

[LitigatorChick]

Date: 2/22/2008 12:42:45 AM
Author: moremoremore
I am a lawyer...but with no kids yet...and that has nothing to do with law. However, to answer your questions-

YES, it is CRAZY expensive. I graduated in 1999 and it cost me, with room and board, over $100,000.00...and that was a middle of the road school

Yes, you can have kids and practice. With the experiences of my friends...can you do heavy trial work at a top firm or work at a top firm? No. No. No. The billing they will want is crazy and trial prep is crazy. My friend at the DA''s office went from homicide trials to ''intake'' desk work after the baby for regular hours. You CAN find 9-5 jobs with good hours, but be prepared to make very average money. In my opinion, a good paralegal makes more and has a better quality of life. Just be 2 cents. best of luck. Public sector work will usually be more 9-5 or 9-6...

P.S. Don''t go to law school. It sucks. HAHAHA Being a lawyer sucks. LOL I moved to NC last month from NY and will NEVER practice again. I''lll scoop poop at the local animal shelter before I ever do that again. Miserable, soul-less work in my opinion. I know some who LOVE it. I have no idea why LOL...Maybe they enjoy believing their own b-s, listening to themselves talk, getting abused by judges and miserable court employees...But then again, it IS possible to find an area that you like to practice. If you want to help people, legal aid is a thought..just prepare to be poor....

My closest friends in law school don''t pracice anymore... One even writes children''s books.....She wrote Click Clack Moo, Cows that Type, which was a NYTimes best seller!

Moremoremore, it is apparent you did not enjoy the practice of law. But I don''t think you need to describe it as "soul-less work". The justice system is critical to the functioning of our society, and lawyers are instrumental in that system. No lawyers, no Roe v. Wade. No lawyers, no minority rights enforced. Not just a bunch of b-s, IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[LitigatorChick]

SarahlovesJS, I am a lawyer (as my screen name suggests) in Calgary, Canada. I work at a major Canadian firm, practicing commercial litigation. I love it, and I have a 20 month old son. It can work.

I can''t comment on the cost of school for you (I assume you are in the US), as I went to school in Canada. The cost was similar to any post-secondary education in Canada, which is government subsidized.

I excelled in law school, graduating first in my class, and then securing a clerkship for the appeal Court. I went on to work at my current firm. I worked hard for the past 7 years, billing about 2000 hours per year (most Calgary firms expect 1800 per year - I understand this is below NY!).

I took 10 months of parental leave, 4 of which was fully paid by my firm. I have returned to work, at first only working 4 days a week, but now full time. I come in most days at about 6:00, and leave at about 4:30. I rarely take lunch breaks, so I work straight through. I then have until 8:00 to play with my little man before he goes to bed. If I need to do more work, I do it after he goes to bed.

I rarely work weekends, unless there is an emergency.

What I did was earned the respect and dedication of my firm, so they are willing to be more generous with my time commitments, knowing I have a toddler at home. Also, my firm is pretty understanding in general, and the lawyer I do most work with has 4 kids.

In the end, I really don''t spend more time away from my son than my husband, who is an engineer and earns about 1/2 of what I make.

As to the area of law, I think corporate work is more time intensive for short periods, while the deal needs to be done. I find litigation work to be quite regular in schedule, unless you have a trial. But so few cases go to trial in Canada, especially in my area of practice, that this is rare. Don''t get me wrong, there will be the odd busy time, but they are rare.

If law is your passion, you will make it work.

 

[pennquaker09]

I'm not a lawyer, but my mother is a lawyer. My mom has both a MBA and JD. My mom graduated from college in 1983, and I was born in 1984. I was literally born during the first month of her law school studies, LOL. I don't know how she did it, but I totally admire her for it.

With all of that being said, my mother has always worked in the financial sector mostly in banking. Also, my mom went to Harvard, and I don't think one goes to Harvard with the intent of becoming a stay at home mom. This is something that she and I have talked about and she said that it was never an option for her. My mother was the first in her family to go to college so going to law school was definitely a big deal. I definitely wasn't a planned baby, because with mom in law school and my dad in his residency/fellowship it was hard for them. My my finished her studies in 86 and my dad finished his anesthesiology fellowship in 87. Most of my memories as a kid were being with one of my grandmothers, or the nanny. I can't really vividly remember just being with my parents. I'm not saying they were awful parents, because they were not. My mom took me grocery shopping with her and I remember playing with my dad's stethoscope listening to his heart beat. We went to Disney World many times, and other vacations during the summers. But for the bulk of my childhood, my mom was in an office and my dad was in an OR. I remember asking my mother why I never had a brother or sister and she told me that, she didn't want to give up her career. And what she meant was that as a black woman at that particular time, her becoming pregnant would be a liability or a sign of weakness and she worked pretty hard to get to where she was. My mom didn't particularly like the fact that she had to leave me with a nanny as my primary caregiver. She told me that it's one of the things that she truly regrets. Also, my mom had a pretty difficult pregnancy with me and that had to be a factor.

To go on, I don't think my mom continued working because of the pay, but she generally loves what she does. My mom didn't have to work, she just chose too. I know for the past 7 or 8 years, a lot of her work has involved mergers and things of that nature.

I think you can be a practicing attorney with a family, but if your desire is to be at a top firm or something of that nature, then it would be more difficult.

 

[Independent Gal]

The bottom line: only a lucky (read: hard working, well-organizing, and probably totally exhausted) few - and it sounds like LitChik is one of them - are able to reach the peak of their profession and be a good mom.

LitChik, you're an inspiration to me!

 

[Aloros]

Well, my father is a lawyer - a patent attorney - and he has always found time for my brother, my sister, and I. There were times he would work late or have to do some work on a weekend, but he never let that interfere with the time he spent with us. I''m not sure if patent law makes for better hours or not. I know he does very well for himself, monetarily and position-wise.

It probably helps that my mother helped to put him through law school, and she stayed home with us kids after we were born.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/22/2008 11:10:13 AM
Author: Independent Gal
The bottom line: only a lucky (read: hard working, well-organizing, and probably totally exhausted) few - and it sounds like LitChik is one of them - are able to reach the peak of their profession and be a good mom.


LitChik, you''re an inspiration to me!

Wow thank you everyone for your insight! And I agree, I looked over the balancing family with work thread, and LitChik, you inspire me, also! I think I want it more than I want to admit. Every time I say oh well I just won''t go it''s too expensive and too much time, I feel crushed inside. I''m really interested in international law, immigration law, national security law, and also I think fraud is an interesting area not sure what that would fall under. I mean sometimes I feel like I can''t find an area, but then I suddenly start finding all kinds of areas of law that interest me. Well, anyway, thank you again everyone!

 

[lovelylulu]

I''m a lawyer and while I can understand that some people have miserable experiences, I certainly don''t think it MUST be that way. I also don''t agree with the proposition that in order to do "good" work you must be "poor"

I think that you have to sort out and prioritize what will truly make you happy. The thing about this profession is that there are so many different ways to be a lawyer. Try to determine whether if you go to law school, how long are you going to HAVE to work in order to pay off any school loans. Ask yourself honestly, are you the kind of woman that will want to have a career after children. Evaluate what kind of lawyer you want to be and see if that will mesh with the kind of lifestyle you envision for your family. Consider the market you will be working in, because that will impact your quality of life.

From my personal experience, I was a law clerk right out of school and that sort of a position leads to a lot of opportunities. All of the other clerks that I worked with went on to take jobs at huge law firms with sterling reputations. basically the best of the best. for them, it was the firms'' reputation, salarly, the fact that it could open doors later on, being able to say "I work at X" that led them to accept those positions. I had a different set of priorities. I know lots of friends that have worked at big firms and burned out. fast. and no salary can keep them there.

i figure that i''m much more likely to remain an attorney if i like the people i work with, can maintain a life, enjoy my work. i found a boutique law firm (about 100 people) that specializes in environmental and energy law and even though i have only been here a short time, i am already working on extemely interesting climate change policy work. plus am invovled in a pro bono adoption case that is beyond engaging. i find a huge amount of satisfaction in my work and while i certainly do not love every single day/project/etc. i found a place that suits me. i also researched the firm''s policy re: part-time post-baby and while i still don''t know what i will want to do once we have a child, i wanted to know that i had options.

However, law school is expensive. so i would really give it some thought (which it sounds like you are doing!!) good luck!!

 

[LitigatorChick]

Date: 2/22/2008 12:52:33 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 2/22/2008 11:10:13 AM
Author: Independent Gal
The bottom line: only a lucky (read: hard working, well-organizing, and probably totally exhausted) few - and it sounds like LitChik is one of them - are able to reach the peak of their profession and be a good mom.


LitChik, you''re an inspiration to me!

Wow thank you everyone for your insight! And I agree, I looked over the balancing family with work thread, and LitChik, you inspire me, also! I think I want it more than I want to admit. Every time I say oh well I just won''t go it''s too expensive and too much time, I feel crushed inside. I''m really interested in international law, immigration law, national security law, and also I think fraud is an interesting area not sure what that would fall under. I mean sometimes I feel like I can''t find an area, but then I suddenly start finding all kinds of areas of law that interest me. Well, anyway, thank you again everyone!

Thanks Indy and SarahlovesJS! You are too sweet!

I find it interesting that you note fraud law as an area of interest. My specialization is banking litigation and fraud recovery litigation. Nothing like hunting down the bad guy and getting our client''s money back!!! Let me know if I can give you any direction about this area of the law.

Another perk about law. You are your own "boss". I don''t report to anyone. I need to manage my own schedule. So subject to court dates, etc., I can vanish for the day/week/afternoon to hang with my little man. I can work from home a lot of the time as well. There is flexibility, which is good with kids. The key is using this flexibility to your benefit, and not to the firms - you need to set boundaries and stay true to yourself and your family.

Don''t get me wrong, it is hard, but the challenge is what makes it worthwhile!!!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/22/2008 2:47:20 PM
Author: LitigatorChick

Date: 2/22/2008 12:52:33 PM

Author: SarahLovesJS

Date: 2/22/2008 11:10:13 AM

Author: Independent Gal

The bottom line: only a lucky (read: hard working, well-organizing, and probably totally exhausted) few - and it sounds like LitChik is one of them - are able to reach the peak of their profession and be a good mom.



LitChik, you''re an inspiration to me!

Wow thank you everyone for your insight! And I agree, I looked over the balancing family with work thread, and LitChik, you inspire me, also! I think I want it more than I want to admit. Every time I say oh well I just won''t go it''s too expensive and too much time, I feel crushed inside. I''m really interested in international law, immigration law, national security law, and also I think fraud is an interesting area not sure what that would fall under. I mean sometimes I feel like I can''t find an area, but then I suddenly start finding all kinds of areas of law that interest me. Well, anyway, thank you again everyone!

Thanks Indy and SarahlovesJS! You are too sweet!


I find it interesting that you note fraud law as an area of interest. My specialization is banking litigation and fraud recovery litigation. Nothing like hunting down the bad guy and getting our client''s money back!!! Let me know if I can give you any direction about this area of the law.


Another perk about law. You are your own ''boss''. I don''t report to anyone. I need to manage my own schedule. So subject to court dates, etc., I can vanish for the day/week/afternoon to hang with my little man. I can work from home a lot of the time as well. There is flexibility, which is good with kids. The key is using this flexibility to your benefit, and not to the firms - you need to set boundaries and stay true to yourself and your family.


Don''t get me wrong, it is hard, but the challenge is what makes it worthwhile!!!

Yeah, that sounds awesome! See, I''d try to be a police officer, but that''s not for me. I also think I''d burn out quickly as a prosecutor since seeing someone not get convicted would really make me angry and I''d get tired of seeing all the murderers, etc. But I love "getting" the bad guy! I am in an undergrad general law class right now and man I am loving our Tort of Fraud section! I think we are moving on to Breach of Contract now though.

So it is possible to work at a smaller-type firm and do that? I mean I don''t mind working at a firm, but I just don''t want to deal with the constant competition. See, my Mom was a stay-at-home Mom/homemaker and I don''t necessarily want to do that because I enjoy working, learning, and being busy. Still, I definitely want to be able to be there for my kids like she was for me. I just hope I can be as good as a Mom as my Mom one day.

 

[LitigatorChick]

SarahlovesJS, you can do fraud work pretty much at any size of firm. But I find that it is generally the larger firm lawyers that can really make it the primary focus of their work. In some small firms, you kind of need to take a wider range of work. But that really depends on the firm, the city, etc. Just speaking from my experience.

Don''t be scared of the big firm - just pick a good one! They are not scary monsters (most of the time........). And they pay well, which equals MORE BLING!!!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Sounds good to me!

Hmm, well I guess I should sign up for the LSAT haha.

 

[diamondfan]

One thing I really wanted to do was to be a forensics expert. This was way before CSI. The actual gore would freak me but some of the cool lab stuff and recreations are amazing. Different side of things, but certainly involves getting the bad guy. I would assume you have to go to the FBI for information about what is involved, but it always seemed so cool. It is more behind the scenes but it is awesome.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/22/2008 3:55:34 PM
Author: diamondfan
One thing I really wanted to do was to be a forensics expert. This was way before CSI. The actual gore would freak me but some of the cool lab stuff and recreations are amazing. Different side of things, but certainly involves getting the bad guy. I would assume you have to go to the FBI for information about what is involved, but it always seemed so cool. It is more behind the scenes but it is awesome.

Actually, yeah! I also considered a federal agency, but I believe my language skills aren''t good enough. Looks like they want you to be fluent basically, not just proficient.

 

[Octavia]

SarahLovesJS, I''m a law student and the degree definitely comes at a heavy price.

First, financially. In general, if you are a super student and get above a 170 on your LSAT, then there are many scholarships available at most schools. If you''re a good student and get a very good LSAT score, there are some scholarships at some schools. If your grades and your LSAT aren''t so hot, you''ll be paying for the degree yourself (as in, loans, lots of loans).

I was in the second category, and am attending a state school(in the state I have residency) with a scholarship. I estimate that I''ll be about $60K in loans by the time I''m done. My second choice was a much more prestigious school and my debt would have been around $170K at the end. The money wasn''t the whole reason I made the choice I did (and it wasn''t even the biggest reason), but it definitely factored in. It''s kind of insane that $60K is "cheap" for a law degree.

Second, emotionally. I am much shorter-tempered now than I was a year ago, and a lot of that comes from being under constant pressure from all angles. It''s not necessarily a bad thing, because I think the pressure does help prepare you for practice later on, but it''s not easy to balance schoolwork, the omnipresent summer-and-eventual-job hunt (which people start talking about in October of your 1L year

), a fiance, and the tatters of my previous social life. One of my friends from school is married with a 2 year old. I have no idea how she does it.

Third, with regards to what you''re asking about. I think women have it harder in most fields, not just in law. But I''m definitely weighing my options with regard to a post-school legal job with family in mind. FI and I plan to be married during my third year of school, and start a family 3 years or so after that, and I don''t want to be a parent who never sees my kids. So I''m already more or less ruling out certain firms because I''ve talked to people who work there and confirmed that I''m just not compatible with them. And I''m seriously thinking about becoming a government attorney at either a state or federal agency, both because of the hours (basically 8-5, M-F unless there''s an emergency) and because I have a particular interest in some of the agencies. There''s a salary trade-off, but I think that''s a sacrifice I''d be more than willing to make.

Bottom line, there are ways to do it if you want to, and there are ways of being happy as both an attorney and mom, just like LitigatorChick pointed out and several of my friends are doing. But I''d be absolutely sure that you really want to be an attorney before going to law school, or if you just want the education, that you''re 100% willing to devote some serious, difficult, expensive time to it. The people who are there because their parents made them do it, or because they didn''t want to get a job right out of college are pretty miserable. I''m really enjoying my time in law school, but I took some time off between college and school to make sure it was what I really wanted to do, and I''m so thankful I had that time. Of course, that does bring the whole issue of having kids that much closer...

Whew, that was long. I think you got my 5 cents instead of just 2

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 2/22/2008 12:42:45 AM
Author: moremoremore
I am a lawyer...but with no kids yet...and that has nothing to do with law. However, to answer your questions-

YES, it is CRAZY expensive. I graduated in 1999 and it cost me, with room and board, over $100,000.00...and that was a middle of the road school

Yes, you can have kids and practice. With the experiences of my friends...can you do heavy trial work at a top firm or work at a top firm? No. No. No. The billing they will want is crazy and trial prep is crazy. My friend at the DA''s office went from homicide trials to ''intake'' desk work after the baby for regular hours. You CAN find 9-5 jobs with good hours, but be prepared to make very average money. In my opinion, a good paralegal makes more and has a better quality of life. Just be 2 cents. best of luck. Public sector work will usually be more 9-5 or 9-6...

P.S. Don''t go to law school. It sucks. HAHAHA Being a lawyer sucks. LOL I moved to NC last month from NY and will NEVER practice again. I''lll scoop poop at the local animal shelter before I ever do that again. Miserable, soul-less work in my opinion. I know some who LOVE it. I have no idea why LOL...Maybe they enjoy believing their own b-s, listening to themselves talk, getting abused by judges and miserable court employees...But then again, it IS possible to find an area that you like to practice. If you want to help people, legal aid is a thought..just prepare to be poor....

My closest friends in law school don''t pracice anymore... One even writes children''s books.....She wrote Click Clack Moo, Cows that Type, which was a NYTimes best seller!

As a paralegal I have to say that I agree! I too contemplated going to law school but then decided against it because I am so happy with the work that I do as a paralegal. I often tell clients that ask me if I want to be a lawyer that I get to have all the "fun" of practicing law without the liability. I work in a smallish firm (4 attorneys - all solo) and my boss specializes in bankruptcy but also does family law. I handle most of the bankruptcy cases. Other than represent clients at their court hearings I do everything that an attorney would do and I am paid well for my position. My SIL has been practicing law for about a year now and she works in public interest/legal aid and while she loves it she does not make very much money - she''s even told me that I make more than she does.

As far as areas of law that don''t require a lot of court time - bankrutpcy is one of them. Our Chapter 7 clients only have to attend 1 hearing and most of our Chapter 13 clients only have to attend 2. Of course, every case is different and sometimes there are additional hearings but for the most part there''s not a lot of time spent in the courtroom. The (obvious) downfall is that your clients are poor and you must insist that your fees be paid in full before filing their case otherwise you will likely never see your money. Sad but true. Sometimes my boss also takes on estates (probate law) and while they don''t require much time in court they do require a lot of time in the office spent filling out endless forms and trying to get people to sign documents that they sometimes don''t want to sign to begin with. Our local probate court is horrible and so we try to limit it to one estate per year - and that one case per year usually sticks around the office for a few years before it''s all said and done.

~Jess

 

[LitigatorChick]

DivaDiamond, it sounds like you love what you do. I practiced a lot of bankruptcy law (although commercial - sounds like yours is personal) in the past, and a bit now (with the fraud recovery, the fraudsters often go bankrupt).

The point of my note was a little warning. In my jurisdiction, our law society is quite aggressive in pursuing persons carrying on business as a lawyer, and that has included some overly aggressive paralegals. Just be careful on how you describe your job - I don''t want to see you in hot water!

 

[Dreamer_D]

My friends and I talk about this stuff all the time. We are in academia, but the pressures for women are the same in any "high powered" (read "male dominated" and "high paying") field.

Recently my close friend sent this e-mail in response to a negative experience my other friend had (her supervisor told her he thought she should stop having kids after 2 b/c three was too many for a professor to have

). I thought it might interest readers of this thread:

Don''t be discouraged! We are not weird. I''ve been reading numerous media articles
that across professions, our generation is less willing to sacrifice our
lives/health/kids in order to work 80-hour weeks.
Our mothers'' generation had no choice but to work "like men" or give up their careers
entirely. We have watched them suffer and learned that maybe we can''t "have it all" but
we can have "most of it" AND a good relationship with our kids!
Here is a MacLean''s article that says women are outnumbering men in medicine, and this is
contributing to a Dr. shortage because women refuse to work 90-hour weeks:
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070924_109282_109282&source=srch
(or go to Macleans.ca and search for the article "where have all the men gone"
Here is an NY Times article talking about Law Firms having to cut back the hours
expected, because turnover is too high - especially among women:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/fashion/24WORK.html?scp=2&sq=law+firms+partner+tracks&st=nyt
Or to to NYtimes.com and search for "who''s cuddly now? Law firms"


DD

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Just wanted to say thank you again everyone for your input and advice!

 

[diamondfan]

It is a lot to take in.

Bottom lining it: Yes, law school is expensive and can be ultra grueling. Can you go, do well, find a firm that is a good fit for you, do well, and have a decent family life? Yes, but you must really have all your ducks in a row for that to happen. It is by all means doable. It will just mean commitment and good time management and great self awareness on your part, and a bit of serendipity too! I am sure it will all fall into place as time goes on.

 

[LegacyGirl]

Please make sure you want to take on the expense. Even with a scholarship paying most of my way I owe somewhere around $120,000. I will have to work at least 10 years to pay that all back. This debt hanging over my head is very scary to me even though I love what I do.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 2/22/2008 11:52:01 PM
Author: LitigatorChick
DivaDiamond, it sounds like you love what you do. I practiced a lot of bankruptcy law (although commercial - sounds like yours is personal) in the past, and a bit now (with the fraud recovery, the fraudsters often go bankrupt).

The point of my note was a little warning. In my jurisdiction, our law society is quite aggressive in pursuing persons carrying on business as a lawyer, and that has included some overly aggressive paralegals. Just be careful on how you describe your job - I don''t want to see you in hot water!

You are right - we handle mostly personal bankruptcies although the boss does do a few corporate ones every now and then when they come along. Unfortunately, foreclosures are at an all-time high in this area and that means more business for us. As far as fraud goes - I know it happens with consumers but not enough to warrant the BAPCPA laws that went into effect in 2005. The vast majority of our clients are filing bk as a last option when all else has failed - when all the auto plants shut down and you lose the wages you''re accustomed to bk is often the only solution, even when someone is living within their means to begin with.

In this area of the US paralegals have their own Professional Code of Conduct and if you don''t follow the rules you could get into some big trouble. I''m aware of what the rules are and I make sure to follow them because I do love my job so much.

Jess

 

[Octavia]

Today, there was a panel discussion at my school about being a lawyer and mother, the decision whether to try to go part-time, what part-time really means, its impact on career trajectory, etc. There were about 8 women who have all taken various routes to do this, and I think they offered a good range of perspectives. Some of them gave up the partnership track, others went off and are now back on, some chose small, not-so-great paying firms with a family focus rather than large, lucrative firms, some work at nonprofits or in alternative legal fields -- and all of them seemed happy with the tradeoffs they've made and the way things have worked out. So it's heartening to see that it really can be done.

They also recommended looking at the website http://www.flextimelawyers.com/. Even if you don't want to ever work part-time, it has some interesting articles for females in the legal profession, in general.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 2/22/2008 12:42:45 AM
Author: moremoremore
I am a lawyer...but with no kids yet...and that has nothing to do with law. However, to answer your questions-


YES, it is CRAZY expensive. I graduated in 1999 and it cost me, with room and board, over $100,000.00...and that was a middle of the road school


Yes, you can have kids and practice. With the experiences of my friends...can you do heavy trial work at a top firm or work at a top firm? No. No. No. The billing they will want is crazy and trial prep is crazy. My friend at the DA''s office went from homicide trials to ''intake'' desk work after the baby for regular hours. You CAN find 9-5 jobs with good hours, but be prepared to make very average money. In my opinion, a good paralegal makes more and has a better quality of life. Just be 2 cents. best of luck. Public sector work will usually be more 9-5 or 9-6...


P.S. Don''t go to law school. It sucks. HAHAHA Being a lawyer sucks. LOL I moved to NC last month from NY and will NEVER practice again. I''lll scoop poop at the local animal shelter before I ever do that again. Miserable, soul-less work in my opinion. I know some who LOVE it. I have no idea why LOL...Maybe they enjoy believing their own b-s, listening to themselves talk, getting abused by judges and miserable court employees...But then again, it IS possible to find an area that you like to practice. If you want to help people, legal aid is a thought..just prepare to be poor....

My closest friends in law school don''t pracice anymore... One even writes children''s books.....She wrote Click Clack Moo, Cows that Type, which was a NYTimes best seller!

are you serious? i LOVE click clack moo

 

[MoonWater]

I love this thread! I am currently studying to be a paralegal and will do an internship with my current firm in the summer. I too have debated on the law school thing and what stops me in my tracks are: a) I want kids and I want to be there for them and b) the costs. I had one weekend where I spent the entire time calculating the time I would have a kid, how I would care for it, the cost of school, type of job I'd have to work etc etc. I even did extensive research on the net looking at pregancy while in law school, and mothers that are lawyers. I nearly drove myself insane. I came to the conclusion that it's just not a viable option at this time. I would like to have a kid in 3 years and I absolutely want to be there to take care of her/him at least through out the first year. Also, since I currently work in a large international firm in DC, I already know what grueling hours are put in and I refuse to do it. But then I think about the huge amount of debt and think it would be a good idea, at least for a while. So I just said forget it.

I've decided to pursue a graduate degree in Public Policy instead. My interest in law started in my desire to help people. I know with that degree I can still have an impact and with my Legal Studies undergrad, I'll have be able to understand and analyze the law well. At the moment (a friend of mine just gave me an LSAT prep book so it gives me a slight bug again haha) I am going with a plan of a child in 3 years, quit my job to be a stay at home mom while I pursue my Masters over the following 2 years and see where that takes me. I figured I could go to law school in my 40s but I may not be able to have a child then.

 

[neatfreak]

I'm in policy and work with many lawyers, and have worked at both for profit and non-profit places. Their advice? A UNANIMOUS: If you are questioning whether you WANT to go to law school or not, DON'T DO IT. Be sure before you take on that kind of debt and pressure.

I personally think that's really great advice, and I am glad I listened to them because it was after I decided not to go to law school that I realized that I was so much more excited about a Ph.D., and I knew I had found my true passion.