Attitude!!

[arjunajane]

I thought I would share with you guys what we in Australia have to deal with when we tell a local jeweler that we are buying from overseas for diamonds.

I sent this company an email about making me a custom setting, as I am trying to compare prices to find a competitive quote for a seting locally - so far to no avail.
He replied and asked if I already found a diamond. I told him that I had, and he began to "internet-bash" and warned me against buying from O''seas. He also said he would "never sell diamonds that bad in colour" even though I explained to him it was my personal preference to choose an I/J colour as I enjoy them more than the D-F range.
This is the reply I got:


Hi again
I''m glad you''ve found a reputable New York jeweller to help you - therefore no problem, however I find it interesting that you still turn to Australian jewellers for advice……….
just so you know
any well cut multi-facetted stone will display the ''hearts and arrows'' effect……… it is widely considered a gimmick, simply a marketing tool
all over the world there are new cuts being produced and promoted - if that is what you''ve seen and want - great
The GIA has not that long ago undergone investigation for fraud relating to incorrect certificates……….hence the emergence of local facilities, to be answerable locally to the certs that they produce.
In natural light a true I/J diamond will NEVER face up to appear the same as F/G……..fact. The standard accepted colours of white diamonds promoted in Australia are F - H, Australian jewellers and consumers tend to find D/E too expensive and anything from I and beyond to carry too much colour. The Chinese for example, tend to prefer very top white material. It is generally considered that the best value is in G/H colours as at I or beyond a straw colour will be seen within the stone, especially against white metal. If you consider the colour to have warmth - that''s great - I wish all clients saw it that way. The largest percentage of diamonds that we sell are G colour. Everyone has a budget - ultimately you will get what you pay for.
Good luck

Soooo...what do you all think about that.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

It sounds like you have identified a jeweller you cannot work with, and that''s okay...it happens.

But, while his tone was offensive, he made some valid points...such as the hearts & arrows being visable in all well-cut stones (this is true, and what he shared with you isn''t the first time I''ve personally heard that)...and the Chinese prefering stones that are as close to perfect as possible.

I think the internet has given local jewellers a "run for their money" since gaining its popularity, and this could be the stem of much of the conflict you encountered via e-mail from this guy. I mean, before I joined PS I had never even seen an I/J colored stone...when diamond shopping...my goal was always to get the whitest stone possible--which was education and advice I recieved from numerous jewellers over numerous years. While it is your personal choice to buy a I/J diamond...perhaps this jeweller didn''t understand that...after all, he is in the business of selling beautiful stones, but what is beautiful is purely personal--he probably wouldn''t have personally recommended a warmer diamond to you because he obviously doesn''t like them, while you clearly prefer them. Most people look at "warm" diamonds and consider them "off yellow"...you look at them and consider it "warm"...personal opinion.

I would move forward with your search and hopefully find a jeweller that you can comfortably work with!

Best of luck!

 

[Deelight]

Hrmmm I have been to numerous (seriously numerous) high end and some lower end maul stores when I have been bored and I have seen stones down to a J I have also seen ones in mall stores that I don''t even want to contemplate what the colours are.

Just shrug him off I am sure there will be someone nice you will find to work with , He might just be feeling a little defensive. GL though

 

[arjunajane]

Hi Italia, Hi Deelight, thanks for replying.
Italia, I don''t disagree that he has some points, such as about the H&A''s - however, I just felt that his tone was totally uncalled for and extremely rude!
I also felt that comparing the Chinese market for someone who is in australia and shopping in the US was just, well..pointless.

Does anyone know if he is correct in his assertions abot GIA?

 

[katebar]

Date: 2/11/2008 2:55:17 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hi Italia, Hi Deelight, thanks for replying.
Italia, I don't disagree that he has some points, such as about the H&A's - however, I just felt that his tone was totally uncalled for and extremely rude!
I also felt that comparing the Chinese market for someone who is in australia and shopping in the US was just, well..pointless.

Does anyone know if he is correct in his assertions abot GIA?

aruananesorry you ar having this experience.I bought my stone from GOG (I live in OZ) and could'nt be happier. It is a G Vs2 and is an excellent cut. I had the stone set by Garry Holloway at Precious metals in Melbourne and was he did'nt gush too much over my stone he said it was a nice stone.
I would oo it again (and i may

) in a heart beat.
The stones I saw here just did not compare and were SO much more expensive.
Good luck.

 

[Missrocks]

Date: 2/11/2008 2:55:17 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hi Italia, Hi Deelight, thanks for replying.
Italia, I don''t disagree that he has some points, such as about the H&A''s - however, I just felt that his tone was totally uncalled for and extremely rude!
I also felt that comparing the Chinese market for someone who is in australia and shopping in the US was just, well..pointless.

Does anyone know if he is correct in his assertions abot GIA?

There was a case, maybe a year ago. Forgive me if I don''t have the exact details. It involved an investigation of a rather large diamond (I think 30cts?), receiving an incorrect D/IF grade. The investigation concluded that someone at GIA had been paid out to over-grade it. I believe it was discovered to actually be a VVS or VS grade. $$$$

But you can imagine that they must have inforced stricter policies after this incident. And most of us aren''t purchasing 30ct diamonds...I only wish!

 

[arjunajane]

Hi Katebar,
I too am looking at stones from GOG - it is just so hard to find someone without this attitude to set it locally - I''m in Perth. Did you decide against buying a setting from the states aswell as your stone? Gary''s funny, I''m glad you got a great ring

If anybody has ideas on good jeweler in Perth, my ears are open!

 

[arjunajane]

Hi missrocks
that was pretty much what I figured, that he was just scaremongering again - you''re very right, I don''t think too many of us are looking at getting 30ct stones?!
I would probably call what he said to be misinformation at the best, and probably slander at worst -If thats what he sends me in email, you can only imagine what he tells ppl to make a sale. LOL

 

[honey22]

I SO HEAR YOU!!! I am an Aussie too and had been speaking to a few local jewellers about my ering. I have since found ''the one'' D VS2 0.8ct ACA!! It''s being set at WF right now.

However, I have since spoken to a few SAs and others I had left my details with before my WF purchase and I can''t believe the attitude I get when I tell them I bought the perfect ring OS.

''Ohhhhhhhh, well ok then, well as long as you are happy yada yada yada''. You can just hear by their tone they think I am an idiot who has just flushed away my hard earned money on a piece of crap (

can I say that on PS?).

. I actually had one guy just say Oh! and that was basically the end of the conversation.

I just think, well you are a jewellery store so I am such a donkey, I like, could have spent thousands of dollars more to buy here is Aus, and just look at this horrible ACA I ended up wearing - NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I can''t wait to get my stunning ering and then go and ''try on bands'' at their B&M - just to show off the terrible deal I got, hey? Then, when I have found the perfect w band, I will be straight online emailing Lesley at WF and getting them to make it!

My advise, if you can, get a stone from WF and have them set it, in a standard stock setting, or have them do something custom. Just pay the 10% import taxes and be done with it. It evens out as you are not paying GST, and the prices are better in the US anyway IMO. Or, have Gary Holloway set it, I loved their work, but the setting cost was a bit pricey for my budget but if you can swing it, go for it.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/11/2008 5:47:44 AM
Author: honey22
I SO HEAR YOU!!! I am an Aussie too and had been speaking to a few local jewellers about my ering. I have since found ''the one'' D VS2 0.8ct ACA!! It''s being set at WF right now.

However, I have since spoken to a few SAs and others I had left my details with before my WF purchase and I can''t believe the attitude I get when I tell them I bought the perfect ring OS.

''Ohhhhhhhh, well ok then, well as long as you are happy yada yada yada''. You can just hear by their tone they think I am an idiot who has just flushed away my hard earned money on a piece of crap (

can I say that on PS?).

. I actually had one guy just say Oh! and that was basically the end of the conversation.

I just think, well you are a jewellery store so I am such a donkey, I like, could have spent thousands of dollars more to buy here is Aus, and just look at this horrible ACA I ended up wearing - NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I can''t wait to get my stunning ering and then go and ''try on bands'' at their B&M - just to show off the terrible deal I got, hey? Then, when I have found the perfect w band, I will be straight online emailing Lesley at WF and getting them to make it!

My advise, if you can, get a stone from WF and have them set it, in a standard stock setting, or have them do something custom. Just pay the 10% import taxes and be done with it. It evens out as you are not paying GST, and the prices are better in the US anyway IMO. Or, have Gary Holloway set it, I loved their work, but the setting cost was a bit pricey for my budget but if you can swing it, go for it.

LOL

Great post honey22, I am SO with you - I can''t wait to get an ideal cut diamond from O/Seas, go into the B&M''s here and wait for them to ask about it, so I can rub it in!!
Don''t you get tired of hearing it? "ooohh the internet, scary scary" Grow UP! Its just like anything else, if you do your research and have reasonable expectations. If you''re a reasonably intelligent consumer - they treat you like you''re gonna buy frozen spit off ebay!

I replied to that jeweler, and let him know that sales ppl like him are the reason why we Aussies are spending our

O/Seas.
I LOVE

living in Aust, but I have to say this side of our industry really frustrates me sometimes.

But on another lighter side, I have just got off the phone from a very great conversation with a small boutique custom jeweler from sydney, who is an absolute Doll! He was very nice and open minded, and wasn''t judgemnetal at all - he didn''t even try to put me off buying off internet

So, perhaps there will be a happy ending after all...
Early days yet, but I''ll keep you all posted. Maybe I can introduce him to PS!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Jewelers in the US are like that, too. No B&M wants competition from the internet. The smart ones like GOG, Pearlman's, and Winfield's were B&M's who decided to tap the internet market as well. I definitely think most fine jewelers emphasize higher colors than we find on PS. However, Tiffany does sell D through I, so I color can't be all that bad!

I'll just add that when I went to look for settings, I avoided telling anyone where my diamond came from. If asked, I said that I had a friend in NY with a jewelry store (Jonathan is my friend and he has a jewelry store in NY)! It's best to never mention the internet if you can avoid it.

 

[denverappraiser]

In 2005, there was a scandal at GIA involving a few employees accused of accepting bribes to deliberately issue inflated grades on stones. You can read up on it if you Google ‘certifigate’. There were no convictions or even criminal charges filed but several employees were filed and the procedures at the labs were changed to make it very difficult to repeat the same problem. Will they ever have problems again? I’m sure they will, but it’ll be something different next time. This is big business and employees unfortunately will occasionally cheat the customers given an incentive and an opportunity. They actually run a pretty tight ship and I suspect your risk of problems there are less than at the other labs. There are errors from time to time but the risk of fraud perpetrated by the workers at GIA or any other major lab are extremely small.

He has a few interesting points but I agree that the message is that he’s unhappy that you would buy from someone else and that you would choose something that he finds difficult to sell himself. He clearly counts your selection as not just less popular but wrong. Assuming that your taste in ring design is different from what he thinks is most popular, I would take this as a bad sign in using him for a custom designer as well.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ellen]

Date: 2/11/2008 7:38:42 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Jewelers in the US are like that, too. No B&M wants competition from the internet. The smart ones like GOG, Pearlman''s, and Winfield''s were B&M''s who decided to tap the internet market as well. I definitely think most fine jewelers emphasize higher colors than we find on PS. However, Tiffany does sell D through I, so I color can''t be all that bad!

I''ll just add that when I went to look for settings, I avoided telling anyone where my diamond came from. If asked, I said that I had a friend in NY with a jewelry store (Jonathan is my friend and he has a jewelry store in NY)! It''s best to never mention the internet if you can avoid it.

 

[arjunajane]

Hi DS..Yeah I agree, I''ve learnt my lesson the hard way now.
However...do you then get the "Oohh the friend of a family...." line?

Ha just kidding , you make a good point.
cheers for ur input

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/11/2008 8:00:00 AM
Author: denverappraiser
In 2005, there was a scandal at GIA involving a few employees accused of accepting bribes to deliberately issue inflated grades on stones. You can read up on it if you Google ‘certifigate’. There were no convictions or even criminal charges filed but several employees were filed and the procedures at the labs were changed to make it very difficult to repeat the same problem. Will they ever have problems again? I’m sure they will, but it’ll be something different next time. This is big business and employees unfortunately will occasionally cheat the customers given an incentive and an opportunity. They actually run a pretty tight ship and I suspect your risk of problems there are less than at the other labs. There are errors from time to time but the risk of fraud perpetrated by the workers at GIA or any other major lab are extremely small.

He has a few interesting points but I agree that the message is that he’s unhappy that you would buy from someone else and that you would choose something that he finds difficult to sell himself. He clearly counts your selection as not just less popular but wrong. Assuming that your taste in ring design is different from what he thinks is most popular, I would take this as a bad sign in using him for a custom designer as well.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Hi Denver, thankyou for clearing that up, very interesting.
I think you''ve hit the nail on the head, in that any business on any scale will always have employees that misbehave - from the 17y/o that works at the gas station and steals cigarettes, to the banker who commits major fraud and "White collar " crimes. Admittedly, the stakes are quite high for GIA with such a serious purchase as diamonds, but we can''t expect them, like any other business, to be always perfect all the time.
This is why I took his comments with (less) than a grain of salt.
I think its great that Australia now has independent grading labs, but as I expressed to this jeweler - until these Aussie labs have the history, experience, reputation and volume such as GIA, ...personally I would take a GIA or AGS certed stone over theirs anyday, scandal or no scandal.

Moreover, I don''t think its likely anyone is discussing bribes over my lil 1ct stone!

And don''t worry, I have moved Waaaay along from considering that jeweler for ANYthing!

Cheers for posting, its nice to have an insiders'' perspective.

 

[Cleo]

Yike.

That''s pretty much tantamount to calling a potential customer a complete idiot. Not a great way to stay in business!

In my experience B&M jewellers have two reactions to my ring. One is to be totally blown away by what a great diamond I have, because being AGS0 it puts all their stock pretty much to shame. I like this reaction.

The other is to be stunned when they find out I bought the diamond online (shock!) from America (horror!). I usually get a ''Oh well, you''re one of the lucky ones, I know so many people that bought online blah blah.. cue "internet purchase horror story"''.

They seem to think that I took a masssive gamble buying online. Um, actually, no.

I have an AGS cert for my diamond and I knew *exactly* what I was buying... unlike the massively over priced, non certificated junk they pass as diamonds in many high street jewellers.

*Rolls eyes*

My friend and I almost got into an argument with one high street B&M who were insistent their diamonds didn''t need a GIA/AGS cert as "they are such a large compny they can afford their own gemologist".

Well hooray for them, and excuse me if I''m not convinced by the accuracy and non-biased nature of their in-house gemologists idea of colour & clarity grades!

*Gets off soap box*

x x x

 

[tberube]

Hmmm. What''s funny is every time I go into a maul store (or even my local jeweler that I love and visit often for cleanings) I look down into the display of diamonds and most of what I see is I/J color diamonds, usually SI1 or SI2. I think that this guy is doing your typical bashing of the competition - and what you can find at a reputable online jeweler is most certainly competition for him.

 

[Po10472]

Personally I found his comments very unprofessional. Why would you so blatently turn away potential custom with an attitude like that? The savvy diamond vendors realise that the consumer wants a variety of purchasing options and providing a service online not only increases the customer base but also reduces the costs for both business and buyer, a sure fire success. Yes, I understand that not everyone trusts online but the number of online consumers are increasing and ultimately this is going to impact directly on those b&m organisations who do not adapt to this change. This guy will continue to lose trade if he does not get his act together, if not, then he will become more bitter and could eventually be out of business.

As for the comments you''ve received about buying overseas, their opinion shouldn''t matter to you. Once you''re sporting your new spangly, let them eat their words and direct them to pricescope.

oh, and pics, lots of em!!

 

[Ellen]

Most (but not all) jewelers really are opposed to the internet, as indicated here. When I first started looking for my upgrade, I was referred to an older, established jeweler. I wanted a fancy shape at that time, mainly looking for an Asscher, Flanders, etc. He had pulled out some rounds in anticipation of my visit. When I toild him I didn't want a round, but these other shapes, he acted like they didn't exist. I politely told him I'd seen them, on the internet (here). The MINUTE he heard the word "internet", he went off on how nobody gets a good diamond online, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and that he didn't know if I'd even be able to find a setting for such a stone.

Huh?

And that's when I decided it was time to go. As I shook his hand and thanked him for his time, he kindly advised me there was such a thing as too much knowledge.

Mmmhmm.

 

[LegacyGirl]

How rude. I''ve experienced the same thing here. I had a jeweler who tried to talk me out of getting a cushion cut because of how "ugly and squashed" they look and how they just look like a "piece of glass." Boy was she surprised when I brought in my horrid excuse of a diamond- it''s stunning.

In her 20 some years of doing this she had never had anyone ask for a cushion and she had never seen one so she had no idea what she was talking about.


Oh and I take offense to him saying that I''s are crap! My diamond is an I and its beautiful and in jewelers lights (the ones made to make the diamond look as yellow as possible) it looks great! In natural light it looks icy white. I just love the way it looks- esp with a cushion cut as mine is more antique and I feel it gives the diamond character.