Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters...

[NonieMarie]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Not speaking to anyone here but if people are brought up in a racist environment, the bigotry needs to stop with them.

You're talking to me.

My parents were born in 1929 (not that that's any excuse) and are horrible racists. I think there has been exactly ONE black person in their home EVER (a kid who delivered something). As a child I didn't know that anyone thought differently than they did.

As a teenager I dated some screaming liberals and I thank them from the bottom of my heart for opening my eyes. I started speaking out when my parents voiced hate and we're basically estranged now.

I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU and I defend Trump's right to say racist xenophobic crap, but I will also speak out against it.

shaggy1, I have met many adults that had to over come their upbringing, too. You, as they did, showed a great strength of character. You are right. He can say what he wants and people can follow and vote for him. But his supporters that cringe at some of the outrageous things he says and the racist, homophobic, xenophobic and misogynistic advisors he has around him, need to wake up. If they think once he is elected everything is going to be hunky dorky and the genie will be back in the bottle, their heads are in the sand. He has given voice and power to the fringe element and they are not going away, they have recruited more members. If he is elected, we will have digressed 60+ years. That's the whole point of Make America Great Again, send us back to the 50's. The oppressed of the past will not stand for it, would you? And some won't like this but I don't care, if you vote for Trump you are voting for his beliefs, his rhetoric and his hate. You are also on the side of the KKK, white nationalists, racists and the 38% of his southern supporters that wish the south had won the war. It's your bed, enjoy the bed bugs.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

JCJ some of the people here are always right. Even when they aren't. Extremely rude too. Who cares? Not me. I am fine in my skin and don't need to tell other people how to live or that only I know "the truth"

Exactly! I may not agree with others choices or preferences, but I respect their right to make those choices and believe what they believe. It's not my place to tell them they are "wrong" nor is it theirs to tell me I am "wrong". It's what we USED to know as "freedom". We are free to choose to adopt the same thoughts, or free to dismiss them as not appropriate for our lives.

And we used to be able to do both without crying about being "offended" in order to pressure others to adopt "my way". I feel about that word (offended) how Kenny feels about "memes".

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

If he is elected, we will have digressed 60+ years. That's the whole point of Make America Great Again, send us back to the 50's. The oppressed of the past will not stand for it, would you? And some won't like this but I don't care, if you vote for Trump you are voting for his beliefs, his rhetoric and his hate. You are also on the side of the KKK, white nationalists, racists and the 38% of his southern supporters that wish the south had won the war. It's your bed, enjoy the bed bugs.

I would LOVE to read actual, FACTUAL sources where Trump has said (not what people insinuate or twist his words to mean) that he wants to restore racism, divisiveness, "white supremacy", etc. in America, and that THAT is what he means by "make America great again" (to take America back 50 years). Show me a video or audio clip, or a non-biased source directly quoting him as saying those things, please!

I have heard "MAGA" to mean - smaller government, more people working, more growth, restoring jobs within our borders vs outside them, less regulations on small businesses, more patriotism, stronger military, more respect for America and its citizens, it's laws, borders, the constitution, etc. And while I seriously doubt he is capable of accomplishing all of those things even in 8 years, they are far more desirable TO ME than having continued high unemployment, soft borders, more terrorist attacks, lawlessness, disrespect for our first responders, and ever-growing, unsustainable government spending more than it takes in ... from MY wallet ... all led by a person who can't even remember that "C" is for classified?

A lot of people feel Obama/his administration has actually set race relations back 50 years in this country, and I am inclined to agree with them. Never before him do I remember seeing or feeling the divisiveness among various ethnicities who call America home; people burning down & looting their communities because someone else broke the law; and many of my "non-white" family, friends and colleagues feel the same - and we live in the south! Many are disgusted by and feel his administration's race-baiting rhetoric and bias has created the very "set-back" others are trying to lay at Trump's feet. My "non-white" family, friends & colleagues say they feel never before have they had the opportunities to succeed than they have today, but that not everyone chooses to try or take advantage of those opportunities. And I am a believer in life being about choices - everyone has choices; some just choose to do stupid crap vs pursue hard work and success.

I know what's coming ... "Maybe that's how it is where you live Jenn, but that's not the case everywhere." Then perhaps those places should take notes and change their strategies, because clearly rioting, protesting, blocking highways, and burning & looting your own community doesn't seem to be working out so well. The definition of "insanity" being what it is and all.

I remember - in the last election - hearing Obama himself on television specifically speaking to the black community, saying "get your cousin Pookie off the couch to go vote". Where was the outrage then? Where is the outrage every time another rap artist releases a new single dropping the N-word 15 times? Is there more that can be done? Of course, but how can you expect or demand others to change if those who condone racist behaviors among themselves refuse to change as well?

So, do I want to see America be "great again"? You're darn right I do - for everyone, EQUALLY! And that IS possible when we drop our selfish demands for things to only be "our" way. And wanting that does NOT mean I am racist, homophobic, and the rest of the ignorant allegations Hillary tossed out about those who don't kiss her feet. I do wish it were a different candidate leading the MAGA charge because I don't believe Trump can/will accomplish it.

 

[AnnaH]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

For some liberals here, those of us who want smaller government or have some other conservative views are deplorable and have no chance of redemption. No wonder they love Clinton because they share her disrespect for those with different views.
Ironic, as Democrats claim to be the tolerant party.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

I have heard "MAGA" to mean - smaller government, more people working, more growth, restoring jobs within our borders vs outside them, less regulations on small businesses, more patriotism, stronger military, more respect for America and its citizens, it's laws, borders, the constitution, etc. And while I seriously doubt he is capable of accomplishing all of those things even in 8 years, they are far more desirable TO ME than having continued high unemployment, soft borders, more terrorist attacks, lawlessness, disrespect for our first responders, and ever-growing, unsustainable government spending more than it takes in ... from MY wallet ... all led by a person who can't even remember that "C" is for classified?

JoCo for President!!...

 

[AGBF]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

For some liberals here, those of us who want smaller government or have some other conservative views are deplorable and have no chance of redemption. No wonder they love Clinton because they share her disrespect for those with different views.
Ironic, as Democrats claim to be the tolerant party.

If liberals are so disrespectful of people with views different from their own, why is it liberals who make up the ACLU (The American Civil Liberties Union) which so strongly defends to the right of free speech for everyone, no matter how repugnant his philosophy is to the mainstream?

 

[redwood66]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Deb no one said all liberals or even all liberals here. Some are intolerant.

What does the ACLU have to do with that?

 

[AGBF]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Deb no one said all liberals or even all liberals here. Some are intolerant.

Anna carefully wrote said "some liberals here" do not respect others, but then she suddenly generalized that it was "no wonder they supported Clinton" whom she characterized as someone who disparaged others. What is one supposed to infer from that except that support of Clinton is associated with disparaging others? In other words, that being a liberal in itself (which, as she pointed out is not what liberals are supposed to be, they are supposed to be tolerant) actually associates one with intolerance.

That's why the mention of the ACLU.

 

[shaggy1]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

...

 

[E B]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

By the way, Trump's turning the revealing of his health records into reality TV-quality stuff. Dr. Oz will see them first and "reveal them" to Trump, live on TV.

This is real life.

To update, Trump has decided NOT to discuss his results with Dr. Oz. The segment will be a general discussion on health and wellbeing. Per his campaign, the results will be released "soon."

Whatcha think he's hiding?

 

[AnnaH]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Deb no one said all liberals or even all liberals here. Some are intolerant.

Anna carefully wrote said "some liberals here" do not respect others, but then she suddenly generalized that it was "no wonder they supported Clinton" whom she characterized as someone who disparaged others. What is one supposed to infer from that except that support of Clinton is associated with disparaging others? In other words, that being a liberal in itself (which, as she pointed out is not what liberals are supposed to be, they are supposed to be tolerant) actually associates one with intolerance.

That's why the mention of the ACLU.

AG, I think that's called circular reasoning, a logical fallacy. I know it makes me dizzy.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Deb no one said all liberals or even all liberals here. Some are intolerant.

Anna carefully wrote said "some liberals here" do not respect others, but then she suddenly generalized that it was "no wonder they supported Clinton" whom she characterized as someone who disparaged others. What is one supposed to infer from that except that support of Clinton is associated with disparaging others? In other words, that being a liberal in itself (which, as she pointed out is not what liberals are supposed to be, they are supposed to be tolerant) actually associates one with intolerance.

That's why the mention of the ACLU.

AG, I think that's called circular reasoning, a logical fallacy. I know it makes me dizzy.

I've had a very busy day and had trouble getting back to this thread. Actually, there was no logical fallacy in my argument, but by rereading and taking apart your statement, I realized that there was also nothing wrong with your original statement. (I really like words.)

I tore apart your (very well-written) sentences and finally understood exactly what you meant and I agree that they are logical and do not cast aspersions on all liberals or on all liberals on Pricescope. My mistake.

Deb

 

[AnnaH]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Thanks, D. I really appreciate it.
I sincerely make an effort to avoid generalizations. When are they ever correct?

 

[kenny]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

A PERFECT AMERICA! RAH RAH RAH! VOTE FOR KENNY!

Don't expect me to explain how, exactly, I can make that happen ........

Just listen to my promises.

A PERFECT AMERICA!!!!
VOTE FOR KENNY!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

A PERFECT AMERICA! RAH RAH RAH! VOTE FOR KENNY!

Don't expect me to explain how, exactly, I can make that happen ........

Just listen to my promises.

A PERFECT AMERICA!!!!
VOTE FOR KENNY!

Octavias for everyone!

 

[NonieMarie]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

If he is elected, we will have digressed 60+ years. That's the whole point of Make America Great Again, send us back to the 50's. The oppressed of the past will not stand for it, would you? And some won't like this but I don't care, if you vote for Trump you are voting for his beliefs, his rhetoric and his hate. You are also on the side of the KKK, white nationalists, racists and the 38% of his southern supporters that wish the south had won the war. It's your bed, enjoy the bed bugs.

I would LOVE to read actual, FACTUAL sources where Trump has said (not what people insinuate or twist his words to mean) that he wants to restore racism, divisiveness, "white supremacy", etc. in America, and that THAT is what he means by "make America great again" (to take America back 50 years). Show me a video or audio clip, or a non-biased source directly quoting him as saying those things, please!

I have heard "MAGA" to mean - smaller government, more people working, more growth, restoring jobs within our borders vs outside them, less regulations on small businesses, more patriotism, stronger military, more respect for America and its citizens, it's laws, borders, the constitution, etc. And while I seriously doubt he is capable of accomplishing all of those things even in 8 years, they are far more desirable TO ME than having continued high unemployment, soft borders, more terrorist attacks, lawlessness, disrespect for our first responders, and ever-growing, unsustainable government spending more than it takes in ... from MY wallet ... all led by a person who can't even remember that "C" is for classified?

A lot of people feel Obama/his administration has actually set race relations back 50 years in this country, and I am inclined to agree with them. Never before him do I remember seeing or feeling the divisiveness among various ethnicities who call America home; people burning down & looting their communities because someone else broke the law; and many of my "non-white" family, friends and colleagues feel the same - and we live in the south! Many are disgusted by and feel his administration's race-baiting rhetoric and bias has created the very "set-back" others are trying to lay at Trump's feet. My "non-white" family, friends & colleagues say they feel never before have they had the opportunities to succeed than they have today, but that not everyone chooses to try or take advantage of those opportunities. And I am a believer in life being about choices - everyone has choices; some just choose to do stupid crap vs pursue hard work and success.

I know what's coming ... "Maybe that's how it is where you live Jenn, but that's not the case everywhere." Then perhaps those places should take notes and change their strategies, because clearly rioting, protesting, blocking highways, and burning & looting your own community doesn't seem to be working out so well. The definition of "insanity" being what it is and all.

I remember - in the last election - hearing Obama himself on television specifically speaking to the black community, saying "get your cousin Pookie off the couch to go vote". Where was the outrage then? Where is the outrage every time another rap artist releases a new single dropping the N-word 15 times? Is there more that can be done? Of course, but how can you expect or demand others to change if those who condone racist behaviors among themselves refuse to change as well?

So, do I want to see America be "great again"? You're darn right I do - for everyone, EQUALLY! And that IS possible when we drop our selfish demands for things to only be "our" way. And wanting that does NOT mean I am racist, homophobic, and the rest of the ignorant allegations Hillary tossed out about those who don't kiss her feet. I do wish it were a different candidate leading the MAGA charge because I don't believe Trump can/will accomplish it.

Oh boy! Trump is on video for all to see and hear his awful racist statements. Many people, to use his favorite phrase, at his rallies are there to see a show, a show with a reality star. They are there to hoop and holler and he plays to many of their inner beliefs. It is the "others" that have taken their jobs. It is the "others" committing crimes. Trump alone, he loves to talk in the third person, can fix it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

Did you read Charles Blow's column?

In June a Reuters/Ipsos poll found: “Nearly half of Trump’s supporters described African-Americans as more ‘violent’ than whites. The same proportion described African-Americans as more ‘criminal’ than whites, while 40 percent described them as more ‘lazy’ than whites.”

A Pew poll released in February found that 65 percent of Republicans believe the next president should “speak bluntly even if critical of Islam as a whole” when talking about Islamic extremists.

Another Reuters/Ipsos online poll in July found that 58 percent of Trump supporters have a “somewhat unfavorable” view of Islam and 78 percent believe Islam was more likely to encourage acts of terrorism.

A February Public Policy Polling survey found “Trump’s support in South Carolina is built on a base of voters among whom religious and racial intolerance pervades.” What the poll found about those South Carolina supporters’ beliefs was truly shocking:

• Eighty percent of likely Trump primary voters supported Trump’s proposed ban on Muslims.

• Sixty-two percent supported creating a national database of Muslims and 40 percent supported shutting down mosques in the United States.

• Thirty-eight percent wished the South had won the Civil War.

• Thirty-three percent thought the practice of Islam should be illegal in this country.

• Thirty-two percent supported the policy of Japanese internment during World War II.

• Thirty-one percent would support a ban on homosexuals entering the country.

You blame Obama for the racial divisiveness in this country? Are you nuts? Are you 12 years old and have no knowledge of our country's history. Do you not remember Jim Crow, "separate but equal", lynchings? Do you not remember Martin Luther King, the attack dogs the water hoses? When people of color live for generations with this history and then in the present day, because of social media, see their young being shot and killed almost in real time, you wonder why they are angry? You can bring up the black on black violence and I agree that is something which needs to be addressed. Once the NRA loses their lobbying power, there may be a chance. No, big fat NO, there isn't any truth that Clinton wants to abolish the 2nd amendment. It is sad that, "many people", don't understand the constitution.

How is the Constitution amended?
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The President does not have the power. So why does Trump keep lying about Clinton outlawing guns?

"how can you expect or demand others to change if those who condone racist behaviors among themselves refuse to change as well?"
This is your quote. Trump has as the CEO of his campaign Steve Bannon. This man is deplorable. He is a white nationalist and misogynist. His website Breitbart, is a platform for racists and conspiracy theorists. His site has, along with Trump, put out there that Obama is not an American, not a Christian and the most offensive is that Obama has a hidden affiliation with terrorists. Why would a candidate for President have anyone like that advising him?
Why would Trump donate money to a church with such vile bigoted beliefs. Look up Tony Perkins, read some of the vile things he has said about the LBGT community. He is deplorable and his church is deplorable. Why didn't he give the money to the Baton Rouge Food Relief Fund?
This is from the Southern Poverty Law Center, they track hate groups.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/tony-perkins

"So, do I want to see America be "great again"? You're darn right I do - for everyone, EQUALLY!"And that IS possible when we drop our selfish demands for things to only be "our" way.
If you truly believe this, why would you back a candidate that surrounds his campaign with people that don't want people to be EQUAL?
LGBT rights, gone. A woman's right to choose, gone. Freedom of religion (Muslim), gone, I could go on and on.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/24/1505777/-What-Does-Turning-America-into-a-Christian-Nation-Mean
Donald Trump has taken on the banner of a warrior for Christianity. He declared that when he is elected president, “Christianity will have power.”

Who doesn't want America Great? I'd say Trump's idol, Putin. Why have so many republican politicians jumped ship? Why has Paul Ryan and countless other republicans have to come out and rebuke things their candidate has said? Things he has said have been so racist they wanted to emphasize that his words did not represent the republican party.

You can not back Trump and ignore Trump and his deplorable (Bannon and Ailes) advisors. You can favor the RNC platform but there reaches a point where you have see what Trump has done to our country. He has been the divider. Everyday, there are news stories of Muslims being attacked. Just last week, 2 women and their babies in strollers were attacked on the street. Just this week, at one of his rallies, people were physically attacked. It has become OK to verbally or physically spew hate. You can not lay that at Obama's feet.

As far as the economy, what was the value of your house, investment account, IRA 8 years ago and what is the value now? I don't know about where you live but here in CA, on weekends you can't get in a restaurant without a wait, 7 days a week Starbucks and fast food restaurants have a line, the shopping malls are packed, everyone and their kids have the newest phones and electronic devises and people are buying houses and cars. Does Obama get any credit? If as Trump says, while President, he'll fix all that is wrong, I'm sure Trump supports will be laying flowers at his feet.

I need to say, my children are Black, 11 (2 are 1/4) of my 13 grandchildren are Black. My late husband was an executive of a
Fortune 100 company. His family and extended family were and are middle class. In the mid 60's, when he was transferred to New Orleans, there were still white only signs. The restaurant across the street from the plant where he worked had a contract to supply meals for overtime workers. This restaurant refused to allow the Black workers to eat in their restaurant. My husband, being from CA, went to the owner and told him if he did not serve everyone their contract would end. The owner backed down. While out with friends, he was told if they wanted a drink from a local bar they needed to go to the window in the alley. He went into the bar and had a gun pulled on him. Throughout his professional life he lived in upper class White neighborhoods and drove very nice cars. He was repeatedly pulled over by the police. Even after all these years, not much has changed regarding police pulling over citizens because they were "driving while Black".
My late brother in law was of Mexican descent and my other brother in law is of Japanese descent. Even in CA, you can not imagine the stares that would follow our multi racial family with biracial children, when we would meet to celebrate in a restaurant.
I know when someone is making racist statements or like the pundits say "dog whistle" statements.

Honestly, I don't think Trump is a full on racist. He has disdain for most people, all of us included, and has proven that with his across the board outrageous tweets and statements. He is worse because he is saying things and panders to groups just to get their vote.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Nonie - I genuinely appreciate the time and thought you put into your reply. There is a LOT of info there, and I will take the time to review it thoroughly.

At a glance, though ...

HuffPo? Unbiased? Come on ... they conclude an article with the following: " Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S." That doesn't read very "unbiased" to me, even IF it's all true.

The Blow article you posted cites Trump supporters. They aren't up for election; he is. So - no offense - I'm not as interested in what they think as much as he thinks/says/does. But again, he isn't my guy, so you don't need to worry about selling me off him.

With regard to my comment about race relations under Obama, I should have clarified - I meant that - since he took office, race relations have declined. I didn't mean to infer that - 50, 100 years ago, etc. - race relations were a-okay; certainly not. Rather, what I meant was - in my opinion and from those I have discussed this with - we collectively agree that there were expectations of our first black president bringing together even more various racial groups, but instead, they are more divided now than when he took office. We agree that they have (under Obama) been set back 50 years, which is a shame. Is there racism out there still? Of course. But based on what I have seen in my 42 years, it has certainly gotten worse since Obama took office, and moreso here lately since the incident in Ferguson. And I believe a lot of people had hope for the opposite given "the first black president" was purported to be a uniter.

I, too, have family members who were guilty of "driving while black". My stepdad got popped twice - in VA - on the same highway for going 5 mph over the speed limit, which is why I think he may have been profiled. I wish he had fought the tickets but he isn't even a smidge argumentative or combative, and said the fact was he was speeding, and the cop was doing his job. Are there bad cops? Of course ... and bad surgeons, bad lawyers, bad teachers, bad jewelers, etc. But it's how we respond to those things, those people, those situations that I feel determines the future. There are too many variables in so many situations that I won't outline them all here. But in a lot (not all) of the recent headline-making incidents, the facts end up coming out that the "victims" we're in fact arguing/resisting/threatening the police who were just doing their jobs.

I really don't mean to come across defending Trump, per se. I really do detest the guy for a lot of reasons. But I do strive to be fair, to give people the benefit of the doubt, etc. And lately, and in these threads, there seems to be an insane amount of piling up on him while Hillary's dirty deeds and questionable actions just get swept aside as conspiracy theories, short-circuiting, or allergies. And all of this "Trump farted in public" stuff is kind of like the ole "look at THIS/him, not THAT/her".

 

[lovedogs]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

"So, do I want to see America be "great again"? You're darn right I do - for everyone, EQUALLY!"And that IS possible when we drop our selfish demands for things to only be "our" way.
If you truly believe this, why would you back a candidate that surrounds his campaign with people that don't want people to be EQUAL?
LGBT rights, gone. A woman's right to choose, gone. Freedom of religion (Muslim), gone, I could go on and on.

I need to say, my children are Black, 11 (2 are 1/4) of my 13 grandchildren are Black. My late husband was an executive of a
Fortune 100 company. His family and extended family were and are middle class. In the mid 60's, when he was transferred to New Orleans, there were still white only signs. The restaurant across the street from the plant where he worked had a contract to supply meals for overtime workers. This restaurant refused to allow the Black workers to eat in their restaurant. My husband, being from CA, went to the owner and told him if he did not serve everyone their contract would end. The owner backed down. While out with friends, he was told if they wanted a drink from a local bar they needed to go to the window in the alley. He went into the bar and had a gun pulled on him. Throughout his professional life he lived in upper class White neighborhoods and drove very nice cars. He was repeatedly pulled over by the police. Even after all these years, not much has changed regarding police pulling over citizens because they were "driving while Black".
My late brother in law was of Mexican descent and my other brother in law is of Japanese descent. Even in CA, you can not imagine the stares that would follow our multi racial family with biracial children, when we would meet to celebrate in a restaurant.
I know when someone is making racist statements or like the pundits say "dog whistle" statements.
.

Thanks for sharing, Nonie. I am very sorry you and your family have do deal with that BS in 2016, in a "liberal" state. Also in CA, and see/hear about this stuff all the time. I think so many of us are "privileged" insofar as we don't have to deal with this stuff on a daily basis. And coming from that perspective it's easy to say that we want everyone to be "equal". But the truth is that we aren't all equal (sadly), and it seems like the only people who think we are are among the most privileged.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

You blame Obama for the racial divisiveness in this country? Are you nuts? Are you 12 years old and have no knowledge of our country's history. Do you not remember Jim Crow, "separate but equal", lynchings? Do you not remember Martin Luther King, the attack dogs the water hoses? When people of color live for generations with this history and then in the present day, because of social media, see their young being shot and killed almost in real time, you wonder why they are angry?

...

​

You can not back Trump and ignore Trump and his deplorable (Bannon and Ailes) advisors. You can favor the RNC platform but there reaches a point where you have see what Trump has done to our country. He has been the divider. Everyday, there are news stories of Muslims being attacked. Just last week, 2 women and their babies in strollers were attacked on the street. Just this week, at one of his rallies, people were physically attacked. It has become OK to verbally or physically spew hate. You can not lay that at Obama's feet.

...

​

I need to say, my children are Black, 11 (2 are 1/4) of my 13 grandchildren are Black. My late husband was an executive of a
Fortune 100 company. His family and extended family were and are middle class. In the mid 60's, when he was transferred to New Orleans, there were still white only signs. The restaurant across the street from the plant where he worked had a contract to supply meals for overtime workers. This restaurant refused to allow the Black workers to eat in their restaurant. My husband, being from CA, went to the owner and told him if he did not serve everyone their contract would end. The owner backed down. While out with friends, he was told if they wanted a drink from a local bar they needed to go to the window in the alley. He went into the bar and had a gun pulled on him. Throughout his professional life he lived in upper class White neighborhoods and drove very nice cars. He was repeatedly pulled over by the police. Even after all these years, not much has changed regarding police pulling over citizens because they were "driving while Black".

...

​

My late brother in law was of Mexican descent and my other brother in law is of Japanese descent. Even in CA, you can not imagine the stares that would follow our multi racial family with biracial children, when we would meet to celebrate in a restaurant.
I know when someone is making racist statements or like the pundits say "dog whistle" statements.

Thank you for your courage in posting this, NonieMarie. Some people are not old enough to have lived through the years you are talking about and others were not touched by the experiences you describe. But there are people who couldn't escape the racism. I am glad you are speaking for them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

In 1958 my grandfather open up a Chinese restaurant in a little town call Davis,Ca. , and 95% of his customers were white, so I guess back then whites don't mind eating at a restaurant owned by a Chinese?... but blacks were not allowed in a restaurant owned by a white man?

 

[NonieMarie]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

In 1958 my grandfather open up a Chinese restaurant in a little town call Davis,Ca. , and 95% of his customers were white, so I guess back then whites don't mind eating at a restaurant owned by a Chinese?... but blacks were not allowed in a restaurant owned by a white man?

Davis is not so small anymore, college town. I live just down the road, small world.

In Mike Pence's Indiana, the LGBT community couldn't book their wedding reception in that white owner's restaurant if the owner sighted religious differences. Welcome to our new America.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

You blame Obama for the racial divisiveness in this country? Are you nuts? Are you 12 years old and have no knowledge of our country's history. Do you not remember Jim Crow, "separate but equal", lynchings? Do you not remember Martin Luther King, the attack dogs the water hoses? When people of color live for generations with this history and then in the present day, because of social media, see their young being shot and killed almost in real time, you wonder why they are angry?

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You can not back Trump and ignore Trump and his deplorable (Bannon and Ailes) advisors. You can favor the RNC platform but there reaches a point where you have see what Trump has done to our country. He has been the divider. Everyday, there are news stories of Muslims being attacked. Just last week, 2 women and their babies in strollers were attacked on the street. Just this week, at one of his rallies, people were physically attacked. It has become OK to verbally or physically spew hate. You can not lay that at Obama's feet.

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I need to say, my children are Black, 11 (2 are 1/4) of my 13 grandchildren are Black. My late husband was an executive of a
Fortune 100 company. His family and extended family were and are middle class. In the mid 60's, when he was transferred to New Orleans, there were still white only signs. The restaurant across the street from the plant where he worked had a contract to supply meals for overtime workers. This restaurant refused to allow the Black workers to eat in their restaurant. My husband, being from CA, went to the owner and told him if he did not serve everyone their contract would end. The owner backed down. While out with friends, he was told if they wanted a drink from a local bar they needed to go to the window in the alley. He went into the bar and had a gun pulled on him. Throughout his professional life he lived in upper class White neighborhoods and drove very nice cars. He was repeatedly pulled over by the police. Even after all these years, not much has changed regarding police pulling over citizens because they were "driving while Black".

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My late brother in law was of Mexican descent and my other brother in law is of Japanese descent. Even in CA, you can not imagine the stares that would follow our multi racial family with biracial children, when we would meet to celebrate in a restaurant.
I know when someone is making racist statements or like the pundits say "dog whistle" statements.

Thank you for your courage in posting this, NonieMarie. Some people are not old enough to have lived through the years you are talking about and others were not touched by the experiences you describe. But there are people who couldn't escape the racism. I am glad you are speaking for them.

Perfect post Nonie.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

I think so many of us are "privileged" insofar as we don't have to deal with this stuff on a daily basis. And coming from that perspective it's easy to say that we want everyone to be "equal". But the truth is that we aren't all equal (sadly), and it seems like the only people who think we are are among the most privileged.

I know you didn't quote me, but I disagree with your "privilege" statement, and while perhaps unintentional feel it makes an unfair character judgment that a cushy bank account (without regard for how they may have earned it) some how means one isn't capable of empathy or compassion. Those who happen to be born into a "privileged" life didn't have any more say in their "start" and the situation they were born into than I did being born into a far-from-privileged situation, and I don't walk around with a grudge or blaming them for growing up poor. And they don't all walk around with their nose in the air looking down on others. Judgmental stereotypes - for whatever reason - are just unnecessary, IMO, and only perpetuate the very behavior we hope and need to squash - in ALL directions - if we really want to get to point in society where people are treated fairly by others.

My belief is that citizens today DO have "equal opportunities", but perhaps not "equal outcomes", because in many cases the latter is determined by what one does with the first.

 

[Tekate]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

GREAT post Nonie Marie.. great.

You blame Obama for the racial divisiveness in this country? Are you nuts? Are you 12 years old and have no knowledge of our country's history. Do you not remember Jim Crow, "separate but equal", lynchings? Do you not remember Martin Luther King, the attack dogs the water hoses? When people of color live for generations with this history and then in the present day, because of social media, see their young being shot and killed almost in real time, you wonder why they are angry? You can bring up the black on black violence and I agree that is something which needs to be addressed. Once the NRA loses their lobbying power, there may be a chance. No, big fat NO, there isn't any truth that Clinton wants to abolish the 2nd amendment. It is sad that, "many people", don't understand the constitution.​

I too remember all these things, Medgar Evans, the sadness, the WTF is going on feeling in the 60s. There was a term used in the 60s 'consciousness raising" I had that experience in about 67 when as usual I was watching TV after dinner and it was the nightly news.. on this one show (in B&W no color TV, no money for that) and they were showing the Watts riots and the HOSES, I was shocked, horrified, I could NOT believe this was going down, they were killing these guys.. it was horrible, our own, killing Americans, such an indifference to human life because one was white, it woke me up and from that moment on I became active (okay I was 14) but I no longer was a teenager with zits and cramps, I was different, I'd changed, America wasn't the America I wanted. I support the BLM movement, I understood the OJ Simpson trial now after seeing blacks just shot in the back... My own brother rejected his daughter because she was with a black guy and had a beautiful black daughter (and white, she is wonderful).. there comes a time in life when one has to stop reacting to what is going on and ACT.. I act by speaking my mind, voting the best candidate for equal rights, and financially supporting my candidates and working the polls. We are all Americans, Blacks don't feel part of it, maybe because they are only 11-14% of America and they are not counted, we would do a hell of a lot better in this country if we were inclusive, worked together.

For those too young to remember here's a wiki explaing raising one's consciousness to what is going down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

We are all Americans, Blacks don't feel part of it, maybe because they are only 11-14% of America and they are not counted, we would do a hell of a lot better in this country if we were inclusive, worked together.

That is exactly what I want.

 

[NonieMarie]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

"My belief is that citizens today DO have "equal opportunities", but perhaps not "equal outcomes", because in many cases the latter is determined by what one does with the first."

Your statement is very telling, I strongly disagree. Your bias and blame is there for all to see. Our schools are not "equal". You go into any public school in a middle class or upper class district and the kids there are given a premium education. The schools are basically funded by property taxes so there is more money to spend. Have you seen some of the schools in poorer districts? There is not enough money to buy enough books let alone lab equipment. When I lived in Chicago, I lived in the Gold Coast area. My daughter went to a wonderful elementary school. The kids that lived in the nearby projects, Cabrini Green, were able to benefit because they lived in the same district. They excelled at the same level as the children living in the Gold Coast. While I lived there, they started tearing down the projects and built town homes and condos. Those poorer students were gone. Their families had to relocate to the South Side or leave. Most of those schools are awful. If they get a textbook, it is probably outdated. In some wealthier districts, students are given 2 sets of books. One set is for school and one set is for home. They don't want their students to carry heavy backpacks or have the excuse they left the book at school or home.
Yes, there are some athletes and gifted students that are able to avail themselves of scholarships. But what about the average student? What about the kids with learning disabilities that have no programs and become discouraged and drop out? You lay the blame on the child or the parent that is working 2 or 3 jobs to pay rent and put food on the table.
Trump keeps talking about school vouchers, some states have them. The poorer students that are able to use the vouchers have to take public transportation, hours a day, to get to and from the school. When Trump talks about vouchers he is talking to White Christians. They will vote for him because then they can send their children to religious schools and the taxpayers will foot the bill.
This whole idea of states having total control of the educational funding of their schools is scary. You take a poor state like MS, how will they allocate the funds? Will their students have the same quality of education as students in Vermont, no.
People can sight many rags to riches American success stories but that is the exception not the reality.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Your statement is very telling, I strongly disagree. Your bias and blame is there for all to see. Our schools are not "equal". You go into any public school in a middle class or upper class district and the kids there are given a premium education. The schools are basically funded by property taxes so there is more money to spend. Have you seen some of the schools in poorer districts? There is not enough money to buy enough books let alone lab equipment. When I lived in Chicago, I lived in the Gold Coast area. My daughter went to a wonderful elementary school. The kids that lived in the nearby projects, Cabrini Green, were able to benefit because they lived in the same district. They excelled at the same level as the children living in the Gold Coast. While I lived there, they started tearing down the projects and built town homes and condos. Those poorer students were gone. Their families had to relocate to the South Side or leave. Most of those schools are awful. If they get a textbook, it is probably outdated. In some wealthier districts, students are given 2 sets of books. One set is for school and one set is for home. They don't want their students to carry heavy backpacks or have the excuse they left the book at school or home.
Yes, there are some athletes and gifted students that are able to avail themselves of scholarships. But what about the average student? What about the kids with learning disabilities that have no programs and become discouraged and drop out? You lay the blame on the child or the parent that is working 2 or 3 jobs to pay rent and put food on the table.
Trump keeps talking about school vouchers, some states have them. The poorer students that are able to use the vouchers have to take public transportation, hours a day, to get to and from the school. When Trump talks about vouchers he is talking to White Christians. They will vote for him because then they can send their children to religious schools and the taxpayers will foot the bill.
This whole idea of states having total control of the educational funding of their schools is scary. You take a poor state like MS, how will they allocate the funds? Will their students have the same quality of education as students in Vermont, no.
People can sight many rags to riches American success stories but that is the exception not the reality.

No bias or blame at all! I don't play the blame game. And I don't see how you inferred that from my post since I made NO mention of most of what you posted there, blaming parents, kids with disabilities, etc. Please don't put words in my mouth (or fingers).

My point was simply that we are all born to some set of circumstances in life with no say in them; everyone faces challenges in life; it's how we respond to them that determines our outcomes. I can spend all day dwelling on & blaming my parents, family members, neighbors/neighborhood, and a slew of bad things I was exposed to. But I chose & choose not to because I can't control those things, but I can control me and how I respond. I can control my choices, and decisions to help people in situations where I can, and I have. I just don't need to gloat about it to the world. The "average student" HAS opportunities as well. And they may have to go outside their comfort zone or community to find them. They may have to work harder in some areas (I sure did). But making excuses doesn't solve problems.

Fair? No. Harsh? Perhaps, but it's a fact.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

My belief is that citizens today DO have "equal opportunities", but perhaps not "equal outcomes", because in many cases the latter is determined by what one does with the first.

 

[NonieMarie]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Your perception is your reality. Kudos to you for all your accomplishments. Just look at what you said....
"My belief is that citizens today DO have "equal opportunities", but perhaps not "equal outcomes", because in many cases the latter is determined by what one does with the first."
How many is many cases? You are basing your belief on what you were able to accomplish. Most are not like you, sometimes it takes hard work along with a lot of luck. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, luck is not with you. From your past posts, I can tell who those "many cases" are. We need to level the playing field with equal education for all children. Only through education will poverty and what comes with it be eradicated. President Johnson came close to conquering poverty. It was, with civil rights, his main goal. As the Vietnam War escalated, the money ran out. It could have happened.
I'm signing off of PS. My DH keeps telling me to step away from the computer. We leave for Italy next Fri and I have to figure out what I'm going to pack. Ciao

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

My point was simply that we are all born to some set of circumstances in life with no say in them; everyone faces challenges in life; it's how we respond to them that determines our outcomes. I can spend all day dwelling on & blaming my parents, family members, neighbors/neighborhood, and a slew of bad things I was exposed to. But I chose & choose not to because I can't control those things, but I can control me and how I respond. I can control my choices, and decisions to help people in situations where I can, and I have. I just don't need to gloat about it to the world. The "average student" HAS opportunities as well. And they may have to go outside their comfort zone or community to find them. They may have to work harder in some areas (I sure did). But making excuses doesn't solve problems.

Fair? No. Harsh? Perhaps, but it's a fact.

Yup, most Liberals kept on making excuses after excuses for blacks. Why do many Asians excel in school? b/c most don't drop out of HS. Many Asians that I knew also grew up in the projects, attened broken down schools, but that didn't stop them from going to class and learn. IMO, no excuses for not staying in school.