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Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters...

redwood66

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smitcompton

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Hi,

When I saw this, I did think she was really taking a chance that this could backfire on her. I don't think it is a good idea.

Annette
 

kenny

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

I agree she blew it.

Now, when she wins, millions will hate her even more than they do now.
The US pres represents all citizens ... that representative should not insult them.

I thought I could not imagine America getting any more polarized, but Clinton just pulled that off, in spades. :nono:
 

AGBF

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Believe it or not, I was focusing on what Trump said when I read about and saw parts of news shows. I didn't see that Secretary Clinton had said this until you started this thread, redwood. I think what she said was disgusting. No one has the right to tell someone else how to vote in the United States. Disparaging others for their choices is even worse.

Deb/AGBF
 

kenny

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

IMO Trump is so uniquely horrendous that anyone who votes for him sucks.

I hate that I wrote that because I'm a big believer in liberty of thought ... but Trump is THAT dangerous.

... but, unlike Clinton, I'm not running for the office that represents every American.

I have the exact same feelings towards Americans who support the KKK or the Nazi party.
Yes, it's their right to suck ... but voting for president is different.
It's not just a person exercising their Constitutional right to suck ... electing a president is putting someone in the most powerful job in the world.
That takes it out of the realm of private and personal rights.

I realize you could use this reasoning against any candidate you oppose but I just feel Trump is in WHOLE new category of dangerous.

I did not have a high opinion of Clinton, but after this gaff I dislike her even more.
Of course I'll still vote for her, considering how dangerous her opponent is.
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

AGBF|1473528338|4074903 said:
Believe it or not, I was focusing on what Trump said when I read about and saw parts of news shows. I didn't see that Secretary Clinton had said this until you started this thread, redwood. I think what she said was disgusting. No one has the right to tell someone else how to vote in the United States. Disparaging others for their choices is even worse.

Deb/AGBF
So Deb...now you gonna vote for Trump?.. :bigsmile:
 

Bayek

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

redwood66|1473527171|4074897 said:
Pretty disgusting from someone who wants to be president of the "deplorables." Many here on PS think this of Trump supporters but this is not what she should be saying. Pandering to her LGBT audience. But this is what she really thinks.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/index.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-half-trump-supporters-belong-basket-deplorables-n646026
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/13/what-we-mean-when-we-say-donald-trumps-supporters-are-struggling/

If one is: "the basket of deplorables," people who are racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic. then to me, that person is deplorable. Trump panders, uh building a wall? I find that deplorable because it won't happen or work, that's pandering, pandering to people who are fearful of a Muslim/Mexican takeover...

What makes you think she is just pandering to lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender? most people on the right support LGBT and blacks etc... those people who support one's right to live a non religious life (no forced religion).. I don't think Clinton should worry about alienating those who find her words upsetting, those are the people she is talking about. It's like Romney pandering to the rich in his 47% remark.. he was pandering to those he thought were his voting base.
 

redwood66

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

I did not like Romney's remark either. Her comment was equally disgusting. As was Obama's "clinging to guns and religion."

What you think does not matter to me in the grand scheme. What she says does.

ETA - And just to show how racist I am, according to you. I want a wall built. Yesterday.
 

AGBF

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

kenny|1473528500|4074904 said:
I did not have a high opinion of Clinton, but after this gaff I dislike her even more.
I do not see Secretary Clinton's behavior as only a "gaffe". Unless, of course, she was tired and just not using her best judgement. I have said things when I am tired and angry that I really did not mean. But in that case she should apologize for it. People may not believe she didn't mean it. (They may not believe me when I apologize.) But she should do it anyway if she misspoke due to stress or exhaustion. If she meant what she said, it was more than a gaffe, it was a sign that she does not have respect for some of her fellow Americans.

I agree that Trump is far more dangerous than Secretary Clinton, of course. (I don't find her dangerous at all.) She is capable. He is not. He also has the character flaw we are speaking of in her ten times over. He has little respect for anyone. So of course i will be voting for her. But it does no one any good to sweep her deficits under the rug. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)
 

lovedogs

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

If one is: "the basket of deplorable," people who are racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic. then to me, that person is deplorable.
I agree with T's quote from above. I disagree with Clinton's statements that half of Trump voters are in this category because she has no way of knowing that and I think it's a rude premise. So although I disagree with her trying to guess at how many of Trump's voters fall into this category, I do agree that people who are racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic are deplorable.

My issue is with the grouping of "X percent of Trump voters fall into this category".
 

momhappy

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

AGBF|1473528338|4074903 said:
Believe it or not, I was focusing on what Trump said when I read about and saw parts of news shows. I didn't see that Secretary Clinton had said this until you started this thread, redwood. I think what she said was disgusting. No one has the right to tell someone else how to vote in the United States. Disparaging others for their choices is even worse.

Deb/AGBF
This is one thing that we definitely agree on, Deb. I am still astonished when someone tells me I have to vote, or worse yet, tells me who I have to vote for, when I say that I'm not voting in this election :shock: How one chooses to vote (or not vote) is their own, personal choice.
 

Maria D

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

I found her remark to be SERIOUSLY REFRESHING. Just as Trump supporters (and I mean the true supporters, not the "I just can't vote for Hillary" people) have been saying for about a year now that Trump's major attraction is that he speaks without a filter, I am glad to hear Clinton FINALLY do the same.

She said out loud and in public exactly the truth. If one is a true supporter of Trump the candidate, not just a GOPer that always votes Republican, one is likely a xenophobe, racist, islamophobe, and/or homophobe. I probably missed a phobe.

Anyone who truly supports Trump who is not any of those things is in the "other half."
 

Bayek

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Re:Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

momhappy|1473536032|4074933 said:
AGBF|1473528338|4074903 said:
Believe it or not, I was focusing on what Trump said when I read about and saw parts of news shows. I didn't see that Secretary Clinton had said this until you started this thread, redwood. I think what she said was disgusting. No one has the right to tell someone else how to vote in the United States. Disparaging others for their choices is even worse.

Deb/AGBF
This is one thing that we definitely agree on, Deb. I am still astonished when someone tells me I have to vote, or worse yet, tells me who I have to vote for, when I say that I'm not voting in this election :shock: How one chooses to vote (or not vote) is their own, personal choice.
I think people tell you that you HAVE to vote because people who feels strongly about a person's right to vote, that it can be taken away, along with other rights. The constitution does not say 'we have an explicity 'right' to vote... it mentions voting, age 18... I think not voting is a way to make a statement just like Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand and not say the pledge.. not voting is a statement that one does not like the candidates, platforms etc.. not standing was Colin Kaepernick's stratement that he does not feel respected and part of mainstream white america.. I applaud both, which is guaranteed by our constitution, free speech. Disparging others is also been a part of the American political scene since the beginning, it's part of our process of electing leaders. No one should tell you who to vote for or to vote if you feel you are exercising your right to free speech.
 

Maria D

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

lovedogs|1473533786|4074924 said:
If one is: "the basket of deplorable," people who are racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic. then to me, that person is deplorable.
I agree with T's quote from above. I disagree with Clinton's statements that half of Trump voters are in this category because she has no way of knowing that and I think it's a rude premise. So although I disagree with her trying to guess at how many of Trump's voters fall into this category, I do agree that people who are racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic are deplorable.

My issue is with the grouping of "X percent of Trump voters fall into this category".

Maybe it would have been better if she said "a good portion" or "too many." Fact remains that Trump is the candidate of choice for xenophobes, islamophobes, racists and homophobes.
 

lovedogs

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Maria D|1473537109|4074939 said:
lovedogs|1473533786|4074924 said:
If one is: "the basket of deplorable," people who are racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic. then to me, that person is deplorable.
I agree with T's quote from above. I disagree with Clinton's statements that half of Trump voters are in this category because she has no way of knowing that and I think it's a rude premise. So although I disagree with her trying to guess at how many of Trump's voters fall into this category, I do agree that people who are racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic are deplorable.

My issue is with the grouping of "X percent of Trump voters fall into this category".

Maybe it would have been better if she said "a good portion" or "too many." Fact remains that Trump is the candidate of choice for xenophobes, islamophobes, racists and homophobes.
Totally agree with you. If she had said "too many" I would have much less of a problem. Because you are totally right that Trump is the choice (and a good choice) for all the racists, homophobes, etc, and any number is too many--because that kind of hatred/intolerance is NOT ok.
 

NonieMarie

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

I had no problem with what Clinton said, my dh did. She started her view with "grossly generalistic". What happened with Trump and his supports being tired of political correctness? Trump has said some very deplorable things about women, non Christians and people of color. When he has said these "deporable" things in front of his supports, the roof started shaking with all the cheers. Every rally was like that and still is. If Trump is correct and there were 10's of thousands of people there every time, what does that say about the supporters showing up at his rallies? I believe if not half but close to half of his supporters belong in the deplorable category . If you do not see yourself in that light then she was not talking about you. People that hold the "deplorable" views are a cancer in our country and Trump has fed that cancer. Trump is where he is because of his TV show, his 4 years of being on TV slamming Obama about his birth certificate, his daily appearances during the primary being covered by the media and his outrageous politically incorrect statements.
 

ksinger

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Re: Re:Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voter

Tekate|1473536985|4074937 said:
momhappy|1473536032|4074933 said:
AGBF|1473528338|4074903 said:
Believe it or not, I was focusing on what Trump said when I read about and saw parts of news shows. I didn't see that Secretary Clinton had said this until you started this thread, redwood. I think what she said was disgusting. No one has the right to tell someone else how to vote in the United States. Disparaging others for their choices is even worse.

Deb/AGBF
This is one thing that we definitely agree on, Deb. I am still astonished when someone tells me I have to vote, or worse yet, tells me who I have to vote for, when I say that I'm not voting in this election :shock: How one chooses to vote (or not vote) is their own, personal choice.
I think people tell you that you HAVE to vote because people who feels strongly about a person's right to vote, that it can be taken away, along with other rights. The constitution does not say 'we have an explicity 'right' to vote... it mentions voting, age 18... I think not voting is a way to make a statement just like Colin Kaepernick's refusal to stand and not say the pledge.. not voting is a statement that one does not like the candidates, platforms etc.. not standing was Colin Kaepernick's stratement that he does not feel respected and part of mainstream white america.. I applaud both, which is guaranteed by our constitution, free speech. Disparging others is also been a part of the American political scene since the beginning, it's part of our process of electing leaders. No one should tell you who to vote for or to vote if you feel you are exercising your right to free speech.
Umm...not much of a statement if no one is listening. There is no "movement", no cohesion, amongst those who aren't voting, and since a single voice only gains volume when it speaks in unison with other voices, you (general you) might as well be in a deep well screaming your head off. Nobody cares about your supposed noble reasons or disgust. A non-voter is a non-entity with a non-voice, and there is no way to distinguish the bit of silence that is yours from the vast silence that is plain old apathy. Or the flu. Or a car wreck. Or...

Candidates (in all races, not just the presidential ones) who were effectively oblivious to vast numbers of women and blacks, let alone how they felt about things, were reliably elected for a long long time in this country. Until candidates were forced to care, they did not.
They'd love to go back to not having to give a damn. The continual efforts to suppress the votes of certain groups (who might be motivated to vote (ie - SPEAK) in loud unison against you, show that while several here don't get it, the people wielding the levers of power understand with crystal clarity, who matters in this fight. And it's not about the defeated, it's about the motivation level of those willing to actually pull the levers. Period.

I am very pleased that it seems like the Republicans here are the ones who have less motivation since they almost all say they can't see a difference between the candidates. I hope that plays out all over the country.
 

kenny

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420

Clinton has apologized.
Good on her ... especially for apologizing so quickly.

... but that saying comes to mind, "You can't unring a bell."
 

redwood66

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

kenny|1473543009|4074946 said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420

Clinton has apologized.
Good on her ... especially for apologizing so quickly.

... but that saying comes to mind, "You can't unring a bell."
Damage control.
 

Gypsy

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

So, she had a Trump moment where she told the truth.

I agree with her,statement. But I also think it was a huge mistake for her to say it. Then again, it is okay for Trump to say whatever he wants because he is "just being honest" but Hillary can't. That is a double standard.

Still and all she apologized. Something Trump has never done. He doubles down instead.

So yes, she screwed up. But she apologized. Which is more than I can say for Trump.
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

redwood66|1473544191|4074948 said:
kenny|1473543009|4074946 said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420

Clinton has apologized.
Good on her ... especially for apologizing so quickly.

... but that saying comes to mind, "You can't unring a bell."
Damage control.
Too late! the dam had already bursted.
 

redwood66

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Re: Re:Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voter

Tekate|1473536985|4074937 said:
No one should tell you who to vote for or to vote if you feel you are exercising your right to free speech.
What if I vote for Trump? :angel:

Do you still feel the same way?
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Re:Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voter

redwood66|1473546517|4074956 said:
Tekate|1473536985|4074937 said:
No one should tell you who to vote for or to vote if you feel you are exercising your right to free speech.
What if I vote for Trump? :angel:

Do you still feel the same way?
That's against PS policy!... :lol: You will be banned :!:
 

redwood66

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Re: Re:Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voter

Dancing Fire|1473547087|4074957 said:
redwood66|1473546517|4074956 said:
Tekate|1473536985|4074937 said:
No one should tell you who to vote for or to vote if you feel you are exercising your right to free speech.
What if I vote for Trump? :angel:

Do you still feel the same way?
That's against PS policy!... :lol: You will be banned :!:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

VRBeauty

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Yup, it was a stupid thing for her to say.

*yawn*

ETA - I suspect there are people who support Trump but agree that part of his support comes from a very right wing element that they too are concerned about. Does that far right wing constitute half of Trump's support? I don't know but I doubt it. But it's there, part of it is embodied in Tump's campaign management, and I hope some Trump supporters are concerned about this even as they plan to vote in support of the Republican ideals of smaller government and generally conservative values.
 

monarch64

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

NonieMarie|1473537747|4074941 said:
I had no problem with what Clinton said, my dh did. She started her view with "grossly generalistic". What happened with Trump and his supports being tired of political correctness? Trump has said some very deplorable things about women, non Christians and people of color. When he has said these "deporable" things in front of his supports, the roof started shaking with all the cheers. Every rally was like that and still is. If Trump is correct and there were 10's of thousands of people there every time, what does that say about the supporters showing up at his rallies? I believe if not half but close to half of his supporters belong in the deplorable category . If you do not see yourself in that light then she was not talking about you. People that hold the "deplorable" views are a cancer in our country and Trump has fed that cancer. Trump is where he is because of his TV show, his 4 years of being on TV slamming Obama about his birth certificate, his daily appearances during the primary being covered by the media and his outrageous politically incorrect statements.
Hahahahahaaaa! I'm with you, Nonie. Totally agree!
 

asscherisme

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

Gypsy|1473544794|4074950 said:
So, she had a Trump moment where she told the truth.

I agree with her,statement. But I also think it was a huge mistake for her to say it. Then again, it is okay for Trump to say whatever he wants because he is "just being honest" but Hillary can't. That is a double standard.

Still and all she apologized. Something Trump has never done. He doubles down instead.

So yes, she screwed up. But she apologized. Which is more than I can say for Trump.
I totally agree.
 

shaggy1

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

So it's ok for Trump to be politically incorrect?
 

shaggy1

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

kenny said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420

Clinton has apologized.
Good on her ... especially for apologizing so quickly.

... but that saying comes to mind, "You can't unring a bell."
As opposed to Trump who has never apologized for anything vile he has said.
 

AGBF

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Re: Attacking the other candidate is ok but not the voters..

shaggy1|1473554690|4074985 said:
So it's ok for Trump to be politically incorrect?
I'm not sure of whom you are asking this question, shaggy. Please elucidate. I don't see who in the really immediate past said it was OK for Trump to be politically incorrect, but then I often miss things.

Deb :wavey:
 
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