At Least 19 Killed, 40 Wounded In Killing Today...El Paso

[redwood66]

I think the problem with behaving erratically is that it is like the frog in the boiling pot of water. Most of the time, it isn’t sudden. The slow ramp up started ten years prior when the person was a child. If the person went this long without any psychiatric help, it is safe to say the family has a pretty good denial mechanism at work. So when they see erratic behavior, their denial kicks in somehow to makes it so they don’t believe what they see because they want so desperately to believe their child, husband, friend, is normal.

It would take an outsider to see the behavior.

This is in the case of mental illness, which I think they said were 1 in 4 shootings.

I can understand this and it makes sense. No one wants to think their child would do such a thing. But I am certainly glad this grandma did turn her grandson in.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/mass-shooting-averted/index.html

 

[House Cat]

I can understand this and it makes sense. No one wants to think their child would do such a thing. But I am certainly glad this grandma did turn her grandson in.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/mass-shooting-averted/index.html

That’s a great example of a family member acting on behalf of a potentially violent individual. I think many people do that every day.

Then there are those family members who are helpless.... where their mentally ill family member is over 18 and in charge of their own care. They are sick and violent, but not quite sick enough to be committed. They are clever enough to talk the doctors out of hospitalization. Even if they were hospitalized, they would only be held for three days which isn’t long enough to medicate them into a different frame of mind anyway...sigh.

 

[telephone89]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/two-so...nst-u-s-travel-after-mass-shootings-1.4537839

Venezuela; who the canadian govt (and I think US govt too) has recommended to avoid ALL travel to, is recommending against travel to the US for safety reasons.

 

[AGBF]

Let’s be honest. These things can only happen with motive, means, and opportunity. It doesn’t matter if someone has motive if there is no means or opportunity. You simply can’t kill multiple people in 30 seconds unless you have access to the type of weapon that can accomplish this. And if only 1 in 4 shootings involve someone struggling with mental illness, that means 3 in 4 do not. My read of what we know about mass shooters is that they are overwhelmingly men who are angry, lonely, and disenfranchised rather than those with a psychiatric diagnosis. Trying to screen everyone to predict who will lash out is insane. Making it so no one can even if they wanted to is probably the much wiser course of action. Like they did with access to large amounts of fertilizer after the Oklahoma City bombing. But the US is either disinclined or unable to make this happen.

I love this posting. I am so, so tired of the endless debate. I ended up raising my voice to a former client who is used to hearing me listen to him patiently because he tried to say guns were not the problem. (He and I discuss mental illness and people's motivations endlessly on a normal day.)

The gunman in Dayton, Ohio killed all of his victims ( nine people) and wounded over 20 more in under one minute-I think it was within 30 seconds- before he was "neutralized". (We do like our euphemisms.) Without a gun like the one he had, he could not have done that. As cmd said, let's be honest.

I blame Donald Trump plenty for rising hate crimes (read attempted genocide), but our gun policy is absolutely a huge factor in all our mass murders.

 

[AGBF]

This Trevor Noah clip about the shootings in El Paso and Dayton makes the same point that cmd made. It has gotten well over a million hits already. it is just common sense. I think it is great.

 

[House Cat]

I love this posting. I am so, so tired of the endless debate. I ended up raising my voice to a former client who is used to hearing me listen to him patiently because he tried to say guns were not the problem. (He and I discuss mental illness and people's motivations endlessly on a normal day.)

The gunman in Dayton, Ohio killed all of his victims ( nine people) and wounded over 20 more in under one minute-I think it was within 30 seconds- before he was "neutralized". (We do like our euphemisms.) Without a gun like the one he had, he could not have done that. As cmd said, let's be honest.

I blame Donald Trump plenty for rising hate crimes (read attempted genocide), but our gun policy is absolutely a huge factor in all our mass murders.

There really is no real debate. It’s all deflection from the guns.

On my end, whenever someone brings up the mental illness argument, I want to poke holes in it and show that it isn’t as easy as saying “My grandson is crazy. Lock him up and give him meds.” As we know, it’s a complicated issue.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Venezuela; who the canadian govt (and I think US govt too) has recommended to avoid ALL travel to, is recommending against travel to the US for safety reasons.

Hope all the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico got the same massage. It is very dangerous here in the US.

 

[jaaron]

Hope all the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico got the same massage. It is very dangerous here in the US.

I never reply to you, DF, as your posts are usually so eye-rollingly, um... ridiculous. But this one shows truly uncharacteristic empathy. What type of massage do you suggest we offer them? Shiatsu? Swedish? Hot stone? Perhaps that will take their minds off the fact that we're shoving their children in cages.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I never reply to you, DF, as your posts are usually so eye-rollingly, um... ridiculous. But this one shows truly uncharacteristic empathy. What type of massage do you suggest we offer them? Shiatsu? Swedish? Hot stone? Perhaps that will take their minds off the fact that we're shoving their children in cages.

Strange, I don't remember being shoved into a cage (I was 7 yrs old) when we enter the US as immigrants in 1966.

 

[jaaron]

All the more reason I'd think you'd have a little empathy for those not afforded the same opportunity.

The above was an actual joke, by the way (about your spelling). There are some who might say that a constant diet of Fox News does not help maintain brain cells...

 

[AGBF]

Re: the treatment of children, let me add this. There are heartbreaking stories coming out of Mississippi about young children, five and six years old, going to their first days of school to come home to find their parents gone. Anyone who remembers being afraid of school can empathize with a child's fear of leaving home. Can you imagine not speaking English; leaving your home and parents for a frightening big building where people speak a language you cannot understand; then coming home to find your parents gone? Sometimes the child's adult relatives, aunts and uncles, are also gone. I heard the Superintendent of Schools for one Mississippi school district talking about the problem. He said the parents all work for a food processing plant. They work. Their children are in school or daycare. They are good people. He said as a father his heart is broken. The children are American citizens.

 

[Calliecake]

The cruelty of the Trump administration is unbelievable. I find it more than a coincidence that The Trump administration chose the same day he went to El Paso to conduct this raid.

 

[Calliecake]

The workers who ICE targeted in Mississippi are functioning members of society who are raising their AMERICAN children.

These raids were planned to take place on a day the administration “claimed” to be trying to unite the country. Nothing says let’s bring people together than watching children’s lives being destroyed and seeing first hand the emotional pain that we inflicted on them.

Good people don’t find it acceptable to do irreparable damage to people and their children. This Trump administration finds joy in doing so. How American. Our ancestors are rolling in their graves, ashamed of all of us.

 

[partgypsy]

The cruelty of the Trump administration is unbelievable. I find it more than a coincidence that The Trump administration chose the same day he went to El Paso to conduct this raid.

I think this is the most disgusting thing he has done yet. These children will have effects from this for the rest of their lives. I can't even imagine someone doing this on purpose. Apparently the city was scrambling trying to figure out how to care for these kids who are suddenly for all intents and purposes orphans.
Here he is posing and giving a thumbs up with the baby who was orphaned from the shootings. Word is that he was critiquing his staff saying there wasn't enough cameras and press for both of his meets and greets, and that he didn't get enough "credit" (whatever that means). Can we all agree in what extremely poor taste it is for him to act happy and give a thumb's up posing with a victim of this tragedy?

 

[Calliecake]

Of course these children will have effects from all this. Listening to these children crying for their parents is heartbreaking to anyone who has a shred of decency.

Who the hell gives a thumbs up when he is there to show support to the families and a community that had a mass shooting. Small children are more empathy than Trump.

 

[AGBF]

Of course these children will have effects from all this. Listening to these children crying for their parents is heartbreaking to anyone who has a shred of decency.

Who the hell gives a thumbs up when he is there to show support to the families and a community that had a mass shooting. Small children are more empathy than Trump.

And what these children are experiencing in Mississippi is what the children separated from their parents all along the border where they attempt to ask for asylum are experiencing. I know that you know that. I know that I am preaching to the choir. But it has to be said again and again and again.

 

[Calliecake]

@AGBF, We are in complete agreement on this. What this administration has done and continues to do is unconscionable. How warped must a person be to find any of this acceptable?

 

[Matata]

I'm still waiting to hear what is happening to the owners of those food processing plants if any of the workers who were rounded up are undocumented

 

[partgypsy]

Matata you know the answer to that, nothing, except possibly a minor fine. And they will be doing it again next year.

 

[Maria D]

Here he is posing and giving a thumbs up with the baby who was orphaned from the shootings. Word is that he was critiquing his staff saying there wasn't enough cameras and press for both of his meets and greets, and that he didn't get enough "credit" (whatever that means). Can we all agree in what extremely poor taste it is for him to act happy and give a thumb's up posing with a victim of this tragedy?

This has to be a hoax. This picture must have been taken on some other occasion and photoshopped onto an El Paso hospital background. I cannot believe that even these two could possibly be this crass. Can they really be completely devoid of the any shred of human decency?

edited to add:
OK, I googled it, it's true. I'm done.

 

[stracci2000]

I think this is the most disgusting thing he has done yet. These children will have effects from this for the rest of their lives. I can't even imagine someone doing this on purpose. Apparently the city was scrambling trying to figure out how to care for these kids who are suddenly for all intents and purposes orphans.
Here he is posing and giving a thumbs up with the baby who was orphaned from the shootings. Word is that he was critiquing his staff saying there wasn't enough cameras and press for both of his meets and greets, and that he didn't get enough "credit" (whatever that means). Can we all agree in what extremely poor taste it is for him to act happy and give a thumb's up posing with a victim of this tragedy?

My girlfriend is formerly from El Paso. She was the next door neighbor of the grandparents of this baby. Her neighbors lost their son and daughter-in-law. Seeing the smiling Trumps holding this baby is disgusting.

 

[Arkteia]

Hope all the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico got the same massage. It is very dangerous here in the US.

Well, here is an issue. Patrick Crusius, the shooter, rationalized his act by the fact that 20 years from now, half of the jobs will be gone and Mexicans are taking US jobs. In his LinkedIn account, meanwhile, Crusius said he was looking in the job in IT sector.

This sector is not where the jobs disappear from. They disappear in manual labor industries. Exactly where Crusius would not be looking for a job as he was spending 8 hours a day playing computer games. Exactly where most US citizens would not be interested in having a job. These are the jobs that went to Mexican migrants.

Maybe seasonal work visas are something we could consider if we don’t like illegal immigration (New Zealand does it). But killing people who came here illegally is not the answer, and crippling our farming industry is not the answer.