Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue Nile

[matthewr87]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased a radiant cut diamond from Blue Nile. I tried to buy the "best" diamond I could for my modest budget (less than $4500 with setting)

Here are the specs:

1.01 carat
J-colour
IF clarity
Table%: 68
Depth% 67.3
Measurements: 6.88 x 4.98 x 3.35 mm
Classified as "very good cut"

However, when I picked it up yesterday I noticed that it has a "dark spot" on one side of the diamond. It is visible in almost any light. I have attached pictures for reference. I have no idea what to do now and I would really appreciate some help. I don't know whether this is a bad stone or not. Thanks very much in advance.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Send it back. You can not buy fancy cut shapes without pictures! This is the kind of thing that happens. Blue Nile can be good
for rounds but not fancys (IMO). You need to look at James Allen or Diamonds by Lauren. Dont go for an IF. You are putting
money into clarity when the money needs to go to a better cut.

I'll see what James Allen has that looks good.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

I looked at several pages of radiants on JA and only found 2 that I thought looked nice and they arent exactly perfect.
You can call JA and request aset images to check on their light return and specifically ask about the faceting and if
there is any asymmetry.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-28167
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/0.93-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-224440 (I question the light return on this
one)

Edit - are radiants the only option?

 

[matthewr87]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Okay thank you.

And now the joys of returning something through international customs awaits...

 

[tyty333]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Ugh...I'm sorry .

 

[matthewr87]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

I guess radiants aren't the only option. I just think this is a cut that my girlfriend would like.

I looked at some more diamonds in my price range there on James Allen and it appears that many of them have these dark spots all over the place. I'm not sure what to do now.

I just called Blue Nile and I didn't realize that I have to pay for return shipping

 

[tyty333]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Some contrast is ok...you just want it to be symmetrical.

 

[lambskin]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

How can it be rated IF if there is a big ole black spot?

 

[kenny]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

How can it be rated IF if there is a big ole black spot?

It's probably where light leaks out the back instead of being reflected back out the top as it would be in a well cut diamond.

When light traveling through the inside of a diamond hits a facet at an angle that is too high it just passes out the diamond instead of bouncing on the facet and reflecting back into the diamond.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

There are far more bad cut diamonds out there than excellent cut. And this is why we recommend never buying a diamond without adequate pictures and light performance information. I am sorry you have to return your stone, but I would recommend contacting Good Old Gold and asking them to find you a stone (they don't keep them in stock, usually, but they can get them in quickly). They will do the light performance testing and also show you the diamonds in a video if you ask. That way you don't get any big surprises. I also wouldn't go to J color in that style radiant because it is going to show some tint. I can see it in those pictures.

Good Old Gold also carries stones that are radiant shaped but with hearts and arrows cut called Princess of Hearts:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9986/ ($4949)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9987/ ($4864)

(on stones that don't list the price, you have to click reserve and you can see the price in the cart)

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

A well cut radiant has just enough black evenly disbursed throughout to create contrast without any concentrations of black and doesn't window out with a slight tilt. Unfortunately for internet shoppers there is no way to ascertain if this is the case without seeing the diamond so if you don't see it yourself you are trusting that the vendor has actually seen it, knows what to look for and is telling you the truth.

The asymmetry in your diamond is due to the way the diamond is proportioned on the bottom, and this can occur even in diamonds with symmetry graded VG or EX by GIA since they grade symmetry of certain aspects of cutting not all aspects of cutting and do not look at symmetry of life.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Return it.

You think your gf would like a radiant? I would not get someone a radiant if they did not explicitly say so. Rounds are far and away the most popular shape, princesses a distant second, and everything else has a marginal showing.

Reconsider your 4Cs. A J IF in a radiant is, IMO, not an ideal optimization point.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

I agree about J IF generally not being optimal for most people's objectives because the difference between an IF and an SI1 can't be seen naked eye while color differences can be.

Since diamond shape is a purely personal choice I think an individual's judgment should never be questioned. People should choose whichever shape "speaks" to them. Rounds aren't "better" because more people have them. In fact, because most diamonds, including rounds are poorly cut you could say poorly cut diamonds were "more popular" because more people have them and I doubt anyone here would give that advice.

Buy the shape you like the best not the shape anyone tells you is "popular" but make sure its well cut since sparkle is what a diamond is all about.

 

[matthewr87]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Is very strong blue fluorescence a bad thing in a round diamond?

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

It's perceived to be bad so it makes the diamond worth less, especially in higher quality round diamonds even though it generally doesn't negatively effect the diamond's appearance. On rare occasions it can make the diamond cloudy which is pretty obvious to the untrained eye because it really loses all its luster in direct sunlight, but in most cases it just gives the diamond a slight bluish tinge and can even make the diamond "face" a bit whiter than its assigned color grade.

That said, the "perception" is a reality in terms of value so from an economic standpoint a SB diamond ought to cost less because it is, in fact, worth less.

 

[kenny]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Is very strong blue fluorescence a bad thing in a round diamond?

To some educated buyers, yes.
To other educated buyers, no.

Good, bad, right or wrong, the market has apparently determined that very strong fluorescence is a bad thing since it lowers the price.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Stan- it's great to see you posting.

Interesting point about high color diamonds possessing SB being worth less.
It is true at this point in time- however there was a time when such stones commanded a premium due to the fact such stones can actually look whiter than inert stones of the same color.
Personally, I like to find aspects that of a product may be desirable, yet can lower the price due to market preferences.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Hi David

I'm glad to be back posting again. I've been focusing on other things for the last few years but I love helping educate the public about diamonds. It's important that folks make educated choices with their eyes wide open and not fall into the trap of listening to people who think the same choice is right for everyone.

A friend of mine recently bought a house in a less expensive area that didn't have the "best" schools because she was sending her kids to religious school anyway. The thing that made the neighboring town less expensive that was critical to most families didn't matter to her so she prioritized other things that did matter to her family and got a lot more house for the money.

That's kind of how I look at fluorescence. The diamond costs less because it is undesirable to enough people (for whatever reason) to drive the price down. If the florescence bothers the customer because so many people consider it a defect" they shouldn't buy it for any price. if it doesn't bother you the lower price can be a big benefit since you can either save money or get a diamond that is "better" in other ways (bigger, whiter, cleaner, etc.).

 

[DSilverberg]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Before going into a panic, I have to ask one question--was the dark spot still visible when you took the ring out of the box? I'm asking because in all the pictures the ring is in the box and the box has a logo inside--could it be a reflection? It is uncommon for a diamond with a "very good" cut grade to have such an obvious asymmetrical pattern of light and dark because the first thing a grader determines before measuring this angle and that is just how it looks!

If you are going to replace it, here's my two cents: 1. don't spend your money on an IF clarity grade unless your girlfriend is a diamond aficionado. 2. don't take advice about shape from people you don't know. You probably spent a lot of time doing research and studying what your girlfriend likes--go with your gut!

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

HI Dina,
Welcome to Pricescope!

It's good to see members of the trade posting.
I do have a question: what "cut grade" are you referring to?
AS far as I know there is no widely accepted "cut grade" for Radiant Cut diamonds.
Not to say that a myriad of sites don't assign a cut grade- but I have never heard of any industry accepted standard.
it would seem to me the only standard that would be widely accepted would be from GIA, or to a lesser extent AGSL- AGSL is an excellent lab, but I say lesser extent because they are so rarely used for Fancy Shaped Diamonds

 

[DSilverberg]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Hi David,
Thanks for the welcome! I hope I'll be able to help out where I can.
I am referring to graders either at the GIA or with GIA training (and I'm sure other gem labs that I'm not as familiar with). Before measurements are taken, every grader needs to first look at the diamond without magnification and evaluate how it appears. Such a glaring asymmetrical pattern of light and dark would be unlikely to earn a grader's high opinion. If I were evaluating the loose diamond that would certainly be my first impression!

 

[matthewr87]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Thanks for the replies everyone. I sent the ring back and now am looking at the following round diamond. My girlfriend gave me some more hints and it appears that a round diamond will suffice as well:

1.01 carat
J-colour
Medium fluorescence
VS2
Table 58
Depth 59.5
Crown: 34
Pavillion: 40.6
HCA score: 0.6

It is significantly more expensive than the radiant diamond above, but I'm hoping that it will be a better diamond in the end. I'm a bit leery of the VS2 rating, but I guess as long as it is eye-clean then it doesn't matter.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Thanks for the replies everyone. I sent the ring back and now am looking at the following round diamond. My girlfriend gave me some more hints and it appears that a round diamond will suffice as well:

1.01 carat
J-colour
Medium fluorescence
VS2
Table 58
Depth 59.5
Crown: 34
Pavillion: 40.6
HCA score: 0.6

It is significantly more expensive than the radiant diamond above, but I'm hoping that it will be a better diamond in the end. I'm a bit leery of the VS2 rating, but I guess as long as it is eye-clean then it doesn't matter.

The proportions do not fall into the range that many on PS prefer. Typically, people will suggest a slightly smaller table and greater depth, among other tweaks. The HCA and GIA are suggesting this conbination of angles "works". So the diamond will likely be better than most out there and may be a-ok for you. But I do think there are "safer" bets when buying only by the numbers and sight unseen, and from a vendor who does not inspect the diamond (I assume this is from Blue NIle?) Given that you have to deal with international shipping, I wonder if you want to find a stone with more traditional, "ideal" proportions? You also could consider buying a diamond in the .90ct to .99ct range to save a good amount of money. It pains me when people buy stones juuuuust over 1ct!

I like the fluor in this case though.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Assymetrical dark spot in radiant cut diamond from Blue

Hi David,
Thanks for the welcome! I hope I'll be able to help out where I can.
I am referring to graders either at the GIA or with GIA training (and I'm sure other gem labs that I'm not as familiar with). Before measurements are taken, every grader needs to first look at the diamond without magnification and evaluate how it appears. Such a glaring asymmetrical pattern of light and dark would be unlikely to earn a grader's high opinion. If I were evaluating the loose diamond that would certainly be my first impression!

Hi Dina,
As you read more of Pricescope you may become more familiar with a lot of the situations and questions asked.
A few key points:
1) The only gem labs that merit discussion, when it comes to color clarity and cut grading are GIA, and AGSL.
Many consumers are misled daily into believing that other labs are equivalent- they are not.
2) Graders with GIA training may have any opinion they want- however it also holds no water in terms of discussing accurate color, clarity, or cut grading.
This is another big problem for consumers- that being- someone with a GIA diploma being passed off as "GIA approved" or in any other way connected to the GIA- they are not.
The only document that counts here is the GIA report (aside form AGSL, which is so rare, it's virtually unheard of for a Radiant Cut)
As Stan mentioned, a diamond can indeed have GIA graded EX polish or Symmetry, and still show a dark area.