Assistance Selecting Between Two Engagement Stones

[seaoftranquility]

Hi all, after spending significant time on the site learning the basics, I think I've narrowed things down to two stones and am ready to purchase. I'm definitely a novice, so all feedback is appreciated. Due to my circumstances (expat living off-shore with need for lengthy return policy) I need to go with a mass market retailer. However, if I'm being taken for a ride, let me know! My criteria are:

Carat: .9 - 1.15
Clarity: VS2 or better
Color: I or better (I'm assuming that the color wouldn't be significantly noticeable unless being compared to another diamond???)
Cut: Excellent/Ideal
Fuorescence: None - Medium Blue

Both stones have an HCA of less than 2, but I'm not sure what other factors I should consider at this point. I have the impression that the second stone comes from a retailer that offers more competitive pricing, but it is difficult to determine given the significant difference in size between the two stones. I would welcome your input as to whether one offers more compelling value than the other; I'm sure she will be thrilled with either. Thanks in advance for any assistance

The two stones are:

GIA 6137868798
Price - Approx $8300
Comes from the retailers "Signature Ideal" range (but I wonder if that's just marketing)
Has GCAL Grading Report (Don't feel qualified to interpret results)
Measurements - 6.41 - 6.44 x 3.97mm
Carat Weight - 1.01
Color Grade - G
Clarity Grade - VS2
Cut Grade - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Fluorescence - None

Table - 56%
Crown - 34.5º
Pavilion - 40.6º
Depth - 61.8%
Cutlet - None

GIA 2135416089
Has IGI Certificate identifying replacement value of approx $16500 (again just marketing?)
Price - Approx $9200
Measurements - 6.75 - 6.8 x 4.15mm
Carat Weight - 1.15
Color Grade - G
Clarity Grade - VS2
Cut Grade - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Very Good
Fluorescence - None

Table - 55%
Crown - 34º
Pavilion - 40.8º
Depth - 61.3%
Cutlet - None

 

[Rhino]

Like the numbers generally a little more on the 2nd one not to mention the size increase. Some diamonds with 34.5/40.6 pavilion angles via GIA can border on having a little too much darkness under the table but you really can't tell that from a GIA Report as they round their measurements. You have lower half facet length handy on the two?

 

[marchesa6989]

hi! welcome to the forum glad to hear you've done some research...i know from experience doing that initial leg work always pays off!

i guess the choice between the two depends on whether you want to pay that extra money for the larger stone. also are the retailers able to do idealscopes on the stones to determine if there's any light leakage? and have you seen these stones in person - even though they are VS2 it is possible (though slim) that they might have visible inclusions.

also would i be able to clarify
- when you say mass market retailer, do you mean from a store with a physical storefront near you? i.e. you've ruled out buying online? (although you got a good price on both of them)
- are you looking for just eye clean? or do you prefer to stick at VS2? that's quite a generous budget if you don't mind going down to SI1 or SI2 (100% eye clean of course) and you could go up a fair bit in size
- are you only looking at G color? my personal sweet spot is H
the reason i ask is, i did a quick ballpark search online and for $9200 you can go up to >1.3ct... just a thought!

 

[seaoftranquility]

Not sure if I fully understand the term "lower half facet", but I assume it is the measurement below the girdle.

Stone A: 43.0%

Stone B: 43.0%

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[seaoftranquility]

Thanks for your reply marchesa. The price difference between the stones is within my tolerance; I'm really looking to get the best stone from the perspective of brilliance, fire, etc rather than size. As for "mass market", I'm not going to have the opportunity to see the stones. I'll be flying into the country, popping the question, and flying out within a 10 day period. I am looking at Blue Nile for their 30 day return policy and Costco for the ability to return it at any time for any reason. Since she doesn't know its coming, I like the confidence of knowing that there is flexibility in the event that she doesn't care for what I've selected.

Obviously, with these two retailers, I would need to have the idealscope performed after purchase and verify eye cleanliness. The bn stone has a GCAL "optical brilliance analysis" and "optical symmetry analysis" but I get the impression that this credential isn't widely endorsed on these boards. I'll see if I can figure out how to attach an image.

I wouldn't rule out SI1 if I could feel confident that they were truly eye-clean, but it might spoil the surprise if there were a problem and I had to hold off because there was a visible inclusion. I'm flexible on color, but this is because I don't know when you can start to see the yellow creaping in under normal lighting conditions Happy to take your input on H.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[marchesa6989]

no problems! sure...on PS we value cut and diamond performance alot, so i wouldn't suggest you compromise on that at all. after all, what's the point if the diamond you buy isn't the most sparkly, firey, brilliant thing ever?

have you looked at James Allen? they have a 60 day money back guarantee. and even though i didn't end up going with them, i was more than happy with their service. i was in a different time zone and the 24/7 assistance was very very useful. plus they can put stones you are interested in on hold, do an idealscope on them, check if they are definitely eye clean and get their gemologist to give you their advice on which is the best selection.

if you have time, may i suggest you read through this thread?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/newbie-engagement-ring-help.168987/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/newbie-engagement-ring-help.168987/[/URL]
i went through many detailed points on there regarding color and clarity. basically in summation, i did alot of research before buying my ring and my initial specs were completely changed in order to maximise bang for buck without compromising on quality. the only time i would go down to SI2 is if there are twinning wisps (see the thread i linked you to, or do a search on PS). they are often described as people's "favorite inclusions" as they are completely invisible to the naked eye. so even though they look scary under microscope and the lighting they use to take those pictures, they are 10000% not visible. and that is what i went with and i couldn't be happier.

if after reading it's something you're interested in i'll do a proper search for you

 

[seaoftranquility]

Thanks, I'll start reading now. I'll also have a look at James Allen as you suggest.

 

[seaoftranquility]

Marchesa, you've definitely gone above and beyond with murr. I've started to review James Allen's offerings with my original criteria (expanded to include SI1 and carat min of .9 and a goal of $8-9K:

Carat: .9+
Clarity: SI1 or better
Color: I or better
Cut: Excellent/Ideal
Fuorescence: None - Medium Blue

I'd welcome your input on any stones that stand out based on this criteria.

So what is your take on the whole hearts and arrows marketing. From what I've read, look for HCA<2 but you don't always need perfect symmetry (which is what i think hearts and arrows achieves)? Thanks again.

 

[seaoftranquility]

Hi All,

Unfortunately I was too slow and Stone A has sold in the last few hours. However, with marchesa's encouragement, I've broadened my search to include SI1 and now have Stone C on hold with James Allen. I have requested an idealscope and eyeclean inspection. It looks quite nice and most of the inclusions are twinning whips (see, I was listening). However, there is a potential concern as the GIA report shows a feather on the girdle that appears on both the crown and pavilion. So the layman in me wonders, does this mean it has a crack? Anyway, here are the specs:

Stone C
GIA 2126669218
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1437530.asp
Price - Approx $6900
Measurements - 6.45 - 6.49 x 3.94mm
Carat Weight - 1.02
Color Grade - H
Clarity Grade - SI1
Cut Grade - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Fluorescence - None
Comments: Additional twinning wisps, clouds and surface graining are not shown
Additional Inscription: H&A (Reference to Hearts & Arrows? Does this mean it is laser inscribed with H&A?)
HCA - 1.1

Table - 58%
Crown - 34º
Pavilion - 40.8º
Depth - 60.8%
Cutlet - None

 

[murr01]

Sea- Just read thru your post and it seems we are in the same boat, as far as being new at this whole thing. I have learned a lot in the past 48 hours mainly from March. She is a huge help and has gone above and beyond what I would have ever expected. Best of luck to you and I look forward to seeing how things work out. You may have read thru the post but I currently have 3 on hold with JA. I will let you know how those come out and possibly that can be of assistance to you. JA gives a Pricescope discount so remember to ask about that when talking to them. Best of luck

 

[marchesa6989]

i'm at a layover at the airport and am looking into stone options now! stay tuned!!

i think the stone you chose is nice, but i really think for your budget you can find bigger. many SI1s with other types of inclusions are eye clean, so we don't need to exclude ones with those. however when you go to SI2 with twinning wisps, that's where the money find lies. so let me try find you some of those! i can guarantee 99.9% you won't be disappointed

 

[marchesa6989]

ok here we go! all score <2 on HCA, the SI2s have twinning wisps (let me reiterate, that the microscopic pictures look scary and do not reflect real life where you can't see the wisps at all) and the SI1 looks eye clean via the loupe pic. however nothing is confirmed until we request that further information from them (i.e. idealscope, getting a gemologist to look at it in person and see if its eye clean and to recommend which one is better)

1.23 I SI2 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1389940.asp
1.25 G SI2 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1424013.asp
1.30 I SI1 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1438101.asp
1.37 H SI2 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1430022.asp this one is my favorite by far!!!!!!

i would ask them to either add 2 of these to your selection to review next week, or (what i would do) is choose 3 of these to compare and scrap the first one because it is substantially smaller.

what do you think?

 

[seaoftranquility]

Ok, Marchesa you sold me on the larger stones... I'm sure she'll thank you for it (and so do I). Did some looking on my own and must say you came up with the nicest of the lot. So the three largest of your recommendations are now on hold and headed for the idealscope. It was touch and go on whether they would release the original stone and allow me to replace it with another selection, but their customer service has been great thus far.

I'm feeling hopeful (confident even?) that one of the three will work out. But it doesn't necessarily get easier, now I've got to figure out the setting! So here's what I know:

- She doesn't wear yellow gold
- She likes old fashioned types of things, not quite vintage but I think she would have been happy growing up in the 50's
- She wears things like peasant skirts and things that could be home-made (she's asked for a sewing machine to make dresses for x-mas)
- She collects curios? Those things with the profile of lady on them (No, I don't mean mudflaps)
- This is a pair of earrings that she liked: http://www.maxandchloe.com/fulldetails/14490/32,33
- She has dropped hints that she likes the pave style stones on the band

So, it is a bit of a gamble, but here is what I was thinking:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-engagement-ring-platinum_17374

I know it is going to cause me no end of grief getting a setting from a third party, but James Allen doesn't appear to have anything similar.

So, what's the female opinion?

 

[marchesa6989]

yay! another happy dance for you sea can't wait for both of you guys to get the results. i have all my appendages crossed for you!

ok let's do settings! i like the one you chose but i think it's good to have some choice. let's go with the platinum, vintage-y idea! also what size finger does she have? do you think she'd prefer a thinner, or more substantial band?

so here we go:
starting with b2c. now if you read my past posts, honestly i don't think they're the best place to buy diamonds because they don't have them in stock and it can be hard to get the required info from them. BUT their settings are ordered from the same place that other vendors like whiteflash, james allen and blue nile get their from (a company called Unique Settings of NY), and they sell it at a better price point so i'd recommend going with them. my setting ended up being from them and i couldn't be happier.
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Prong-Set-Accent-Ring-18K-White-Gold-%281-6-cttw%29-1749-1.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/18K-White-Gold-Ring-Channel-Set-Princess-Side-Diamonds-%281-2-cttw%29-4382-1.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Channel-Set-Accent-Ring-18K-White-Gold-%281-3-cttw%29-1337-1.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Milgrained-Pave-Set-Diamond-Ring-18K-White-Gold-%283-8-cttw%29-6035-1.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Prong-Set-Accent-Ring-18K-White-Gold-%281-2-cttw%29-1236-1.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Milgrained-Pave-Set-Diamond-Ring-18K-White-Gold-%285-8-cttw%29-6013-1.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/Diamond-Accent-Settings/Pave-Set-Ring-18K-White-Gold-3349-1.aspx

also when i was looking for my setting this shop had some great antique looking styles:
http://www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com/engagement-rings/antique?page=all#catalog
probably best to call them, as when you have a larger centre stone size prices can go up. and it doesn't list what metals the settings are done in. but some really nice ones there! like:
http://www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com/engagement-rings/Antique-Pave-Set-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-Setting/1218595
http://www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com/engagement-rings/Antique-BypassCriss-Cross-Engagement-Ring-Setting/1413614
http://www.emmaparkerdiamonds.com/engagement-rings/Vintage-Eternity-Engagement-Ring-Setting/1413621
but check out that link for sure.

any of those look good?

 

[seaoftranquility]

I've spent the last few days searching for alternate settings. I must be stubborn, but I keep coming back to the Blue Nile vintage design.


In the meantime, my idealscopes came back on the three stones that marchesa suggested and the 1.30 carat was the gemologists clear favorite with the following comments: "very nice fire and brilliance and is the brightest of your selections. Additionally, this diamond faces perfectly eye clean!"


It has the following specs:

GIA 2126395013
Price - Approx $8200
Measurements - 7.04- 7.08 x 4.28mm
Carat Weight - 1.30
Color Grade - I
Clarity Grade - SI1
Cut Grade - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Fluorescence - Faint

Table - 58%
Crown - 34.0º
Pavilion - 40.8º
Depth - 60.6%
Cutlet - None
HCA - 1.1

I would welcome second opinions. Unless anyone feels that the Color Grade I will be apparent in normal situation (ie. not when comparing two diamonds), I think I've found the stone.

Blue Nile is willing to sell me the empty setting and James Allen is willing to mount the stone. However Blue Nile's warranty and service will be voided once James Allen works on the ring. This means, Blue Nile won't resize the ring if I get it wrong. So with the engraved platinum pave setting that I've chosen, does anyone think that it couldn't be resized by James Allen or another jeweler?

I've gathered a few of her other rings and they all seem to fall into the 6.5 to 7 size range, but I'd hate to get caught out with a ring that couldn't be resized, exchanged or returned.

Is there reason for caution here or have we got a winner?

 

[bagelboy]

As a guy, finding the perfect setting for my girl proved to be a thousand times harder than finding the "perfect" diamond. You could just get a very simple inexpensive setting to pop the question. Later both can shop for the perfect setting. No worries about getting the style or size 100% correct. Lots of women will see a setting they love until they try it on and suddenly they don't like how it looks or feels. Some women would like to choose their own setting, others are happy as long as you tried your best. Good Luck!

 

[Unknown]

I am not expert, can't be more helpful. Only thing I'd like to mention is if you decide to work with bluenile, don't forget the promotion which is save up to $700 on diamonds.
http://www.bluenile.com/landing.jsp?land=SPARKLE&tempcurr=USD

 

[marchesa6989]

I've spent the last few days searching for alternate settings. I must be stubborn, but I keep coming back to the Blue Nile vintage design.


In the meantime, my idealscopes came back on the three stones that marchesa suggested and the 1.30 carat was the gemologists clear favorite with the following comments: "very nice fire and brilliance and is the brightest of your selections. Additionally, this diamond faces perfectly eye clean!"


It has the following specs:

GIA 2126395013
Price - Approx $8200
Measurements - 7.04- 7.08 x 4.28mm
Carat Weight - 1.30
Color Grade - I
Clarity Grade - SI1
Cut Grade - Excellent
Polish - Excellent
Symmetry - Excellent
Fluorescence - Faint

Table - 58%
Crown - 34.0º
Pavilion - 40.8º
Depth - 60.6%
Cutlet - None
HCA - 1.1

I would welcome second opinions. Unless anyone feels that the Color Grade I will be apparent in normal situation (ie. not when comparing two diamonds), I think I've found the stone.

Blue Nile is willing to sell me the empty setting and James Allen is willing to mount the stone. However Blue Nile's warranty and service will be voided once James Allen works on the ring. This means, Blue Nile won't resize the ring if I get it wrong. So with the engraved platinum pave setting that I've chosen, does anyone think that it couldn't be resized by James Allen or another jeweler?

I've gathered a few of her other rings and they all seem to fall into the 6.5 to 7 size range, but I'd hate to get caught out with a ring that couldn't be resized, exchanged or returned.

Is there reason for caution here or have we got a winner?

i think that's a winner sea! if we look at the reference guide here http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp,, you'll see that the pattern of light return most matches the excellent category, with great looking symmetry too. so i'd definitely go for that one!

as for the setting, it would be easier to get it all from one place, but if you have your heart set on that one then i say go for it. the turn around time won't be that much longer - but as you said you just have to make sure its the right size and that its definitely what you want to go with. my suggestion is to order the setting and give BN the exact measurements of your stone, and use their free shipping to send it to JA who will set the stone for you. easy peasy!

 

[seaoftranquility]

I'd like to thank Marchesa and everyone else who has contributed. The setting has been shipped out to James Allen and the stone should be set on Tuesday. I'll post a photo when received.

Thanks again everyone, I'm sure she'll love it!

 

[LJL]

yay! Great advice, marchesa - I'm excited to see how this one works out.
As far as the setting be resizeable, it should be - as long as the diamonds don't go all the way around which it doesnt appear that they do. Sometimes resizing can be a problem if there are a lot of small prongs and it is getting resized a couple sizes but it sounds like the most you would need is half a size so it should be fine!