Asscher: price difference, what to look for, etc.

[dcdocfilms]

So I am looking at a couple of 1.8 Asscher I VS1 (almost identical dimensions).

The jeweler (Brick & Mortar) I am speaking to has quoted me a price that is about 10% more than pieces I am seeing on Brilliantly Engaged (or other similar sites). The same jeweler has quoted me a higher price on the setting as well. I'm willing to pay more, but it has to be demonstrably better (for both the diamond and the setting). I just don't know enough to figure out whether what he is offerering is deemonstrably better.

I've asked if he is flexible on the price, and he has told me that this diamond faces up closer to a 2ct as opposed to the 1.8 and that is why it is more expensive. But as I said the other stones have almost the same dimensions (as well as carat, color, symmetry, polish).

So, How hard should I push for that 10%? I like the access to the brick and mortar (cleanings, repairs, etc), but not sure what that ends up being "worth".

I've poked around the site a bit in the few weeks I've been looking, but haven't found anything that comments on this. I'd be very appreciative of any thoughts.

also, if it isn't too much to ask, if a post has "what to look for when looking for an asscher" I would appreciate a link to that as well. I searched and didn't find exact results (although I did end up going down a few other rabbit holes).

Thank you all for what you have put together on this forum

David

 

[dcdocfilms]

As a follow up, I wanted to clarify...

When asking about what to look for... I was looking more for advice on the parts that aren't so cut and dry (thing other than table, depth, etc). In my limited experience, it seems that the GIA tells only part of the story, and it is the "intangible" parts that I was looking for help with. I have found that every time I look at a stone, I miss one thing, then need to go back and look again. So something like a "look for" list all in one place was what I had searched for, but hadn't found a lot.

Things that would be helpful-

1. how to make an assessment without an ASET image? (I recently asked about crown angle and an ASET image... to which they referenced the GIA and told me GIA doesn't measure those. He does have an ASET loupe, but not a way to take pictures... )

2. Things to look for in artificial or natural light... what might show up better in one or the other?

3. A rundown of things you all look for that aren't entirely obvious to a newbie?


Thanks again for any partial or full responses, I have learned a lot from this site.
D

 

[Karl_K]

Some light reading:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/performance-and-p3-facets-discussion-about-step-cut-diamonds

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/virtual-facets-and-patterns-discussion-about-step-cuts

 

[Karl_K]

btw what are the numbers from the report including mm size?

 

[dcdocfilms]

Hi Karl,
The details are

6.7x6.65x4.51mm, Excellent, Very Good, None

Table: 62
Depth: 67.7

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Untrue statement about it facing up like a 2 ct asscher. It faces up like a 1.75-1.80. I will tell you that two is not a very good selection. There might be one good one in ten or twenty. Can you get magnified images of them? What are they asking?

 

[dcdocfilms]

Hi diamondseeker,
I was comparing a couple of like stones, but I agree with you that 2 is not enough.


I was trying to keep it simple for this particular question so I could start learning what might make two individual stones different.

I wasn't sure how to approach the SA about the statement regarding the facing up. I didn't quite understand the reasoning with what I've read here. And you have confirmed that. Thank you.

I'm trying to not feel the pinch that time puts on me (I didn't get ahead of this as much as I would have liked). But I really appreciate your response.

They are asking $10,100... Keep looking?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Price is okay. This is the closest comp I can find.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.80-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-880936

 

[Karl_K]

Untrue statement about it facing up like a 2 ct asscher. It faces up like a 1.75-1.80.

Yea I agree it is facing up ok for its weight but not like a 2ct.

There is not a lot we can tell you working in the dark.

When comparing asschers make sure and view them in as many lighting conditions as possible and break the diamond into zones.
outline
crown step area
edge of table
under table
windmills
then overall
Looking at patterns, overall brightness and dark zones.
Small dark zones that flash bright with tilt are good, large dark zones that do not flash are bad,
Are the patterns symmetrical?

In spot lighting does it throw off a lot of fire?

Then start tilting it gentle then more and more. Do the dark areas face up flash bright with little tilt? Do the bright areas flash as your tilt the diamond? This is very critical.

The hardest part is getting out of what I call wow pretty mode and into a more analytical mindset.
I have problems doing that, I just want to play with the diamond for hours.

 

[dcdocfilms]

Thanks Karl... that is exactly what i was looking for. I'm taking another in person look tomorrow.

If i can ask some clarifying questions... (i'm going to look up on the web too to try and figure out what to look for in each zone)

When looking at the zones... do you mind sharing what you look for? I just haven't seen enough yet... and are you doing this with a 10x? 20x?

outline-
crown step area-
edge of table -
under table
windmills- It definitely has windmills... but I'm going to search for different kinds... and which are better than others


then overall

Looking at patterns and overall brightness.
Are the patterns symmetrical?

In spot lighting does it throw off a lot of fire?

Then start tilting it gentle then more and more. Do the dark areas face up flash bright with little tilt? Do the bright areas flash as your tilt the diamond? This is very critical.

I definitely hear you in terms of getting out of pretty mode... all these stones look great (to me, an amateur). so I'm just trying to figure out how to tease out the important details.

 

[dcdocfilms]

Also,
is it reasonable to ask for the more detailed cut information from the cutter? what information might they keep track of?


So far, I've only been given the GIA report, but I'd be interested in some of the other details as well...

Crown Height?
Facet angles, (would they keep record of the p3 facet angle? )


You'll pardon my ignorance on what information the cutter might keep? or maybe is there a better way to measure these things?

 

[Karl_K]

and are you doing this with a 10x? 20x?

using just eyes.
One thing I forgot to add but it in my p3 article don't hold it up in the air while looking at it.
A spring stone holder(looks like a ring) on your finger is the most realistic.

 

[Karl_K]

Crown Height?
Facet angles, (would they keep record of the p3 facet angle? )

crown height can be seen bare eye, a flat top is obvious.
The best p3 angle is not any one number it will vary based on the rest of the angles and positions.
We fine tune it by eye on ours for every diamond.