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Asscher cut suggestion

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
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I just got off the phone, he will send a new video. He took a video from his phone from the wholesaler website so he missed a bit.

He says it's the best cut and stands by the diamond he recommends and will refund if I am not 100% happy.

Re ASET, he says it is not relevant for an asscher cut and only for a brilliant?
@Karl_K
Please offer some guidance.
I’m not an expert, but this is the OPPOSITE of everything I have learned here, and offline, pertaining to step cuts.
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
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These are all stills taken from both videos of your vendor’s top choice.:
AC3DFB33-7C39-423C-9EE5-2254A16A2013.jpeg F6F9209E-F6B4-4A3F-8CA1-3341A971A713.jpeg AC9610CB-ACC1-4D50-91DC-044A0D68C60B.jpeg
Please note the consistent black steps around the center of the stone.
If this phenomenon occurs consistently, while the stone is in motion, that indicates leakage.
Leakage in a step cut is dreadful, and leads to a dull, flat, sad diamond.
The steps should light up and dim in a step fashion, and in a bright and happy contrasted pattern.
Steps that remain dark, even when moved, are “dead”.
This is why I do not care for this stone, without seeing it with a color background, and without ASET images to prove there is brightness around that center.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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11,379
These are all stills taken from both videos of your vendor’s top choice.:
AC3DFB33-7C39-423C-9EE5-2254A16A2013.jpeg F6F9209E-F6B4-4A3F-8CA1-3341A971A713.jpeg AC9610CB-ACC1-4D50-91DC-044A0D68C60B.jpeg
Please note the consistent black steps around the center of the stone.
If this phenomenon occurs consistently, while the stone is in motion, that indicates leakage.
Leakage in a step cut is dreadful, and leads to a dull, flat, sad diamond.
The steps should light up and dim in a step fashion, and in a bright and happy contrasted pattern.
Steps that remain dark, even when moved, are “dead”.
This is why I do not care for this stone, without seeing it with a color background, and without ASET images to prove there is brightness around that center.
Thank you! I thought I was crazy haha. I took this screenshot and was about to link it for OP as a reason I don't like the stone. It looks like too many of the steps are "off" at once, which will lead it to look dark at times rather than having the nice "on/off" balance.

Also, the fact that the vendor said ASET is only for round is just absolutely untrue.
Annotation 2020-07-29 181003.png
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
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5,142
@Und,
Here is helpful reading, published by our own, @Karl_K.
He and Yoram Finkelstein at GemConcepts (@diagem) collaborated, designed, created, and cut the very first HYBRID Asscher diamond: The Octavia Asscher Diamond.
This man knows a bit about step cuts, and the way they perform.
Please enjoy.....
You may want to share this with your vendor.

 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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10,307
2 things about the diamond the crown height is on the low side and potentially there are some areas not flashing well showing obstruction(not leakage) all the time.
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 7, 2017
Messages
5,142
Just remember black lens obstruction, background color leakage.
I believe that is what I am getting to, when suggesting that if this were ME, I would want to see the diamond in front of a colored background to confirm obstruction v leakage.
Either way, the vendor’s top choice is not mine, based upon the other potential candidates.
OP must decide for himself if he is OK with the obstruction v leakage of this stone.
You are a fountain of knowledge. I love when you chime in.
It’s always a learning experience. =)2
 

Und

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
29
These are all stills taken from both videos of your vendor’s top choice.:

Please note the consistent black steps around the center of the stone.
If this phenomenon occurs consistently, while the stone is in motion, that indicates leakage.
Leakage in a step cut is dreadful, and leads to a dull, flat, sad diamond.
The steps should light up and dim in a step fashion, and in a bright and happy contrasted pattern.
Steps that remain dark, even when moved, are “dead”.
This is why I do not care for this stone, without seeing it with a color background, and without ASET images to prove there is brightness around that center.
THanks Mathews!!!!! I don't even have the words. I've asked for ASET and see what comes from it. I'll forward yourscreenshots to him

@Und,
Here is helpful reading, published by our own, @Karl_K.
He and Yoram Finkelstein at GemConcepts (@diagem) collaborated, designed, created, and cut the very first HYBRID Asscher diamond: The Octavia Asscher Diamond.
This man knows a bit about step cuts, and the way they perform.
Please enjoy.....
You may want to share this with your vendor.

Wow that is very informative!!! My mind is blown and confused, so much information to digest.

I am going to read this one more time to absorb everything!!!

2 things about the diamond the crown height is on the low side and potentially there are some areas not flashing well showing obstruction(not leakage) all the time.
Karl thanks and expecially for creating that page on steps cuts. Am I reading this correctly. The black parts in the video / photo could be obstruction rather light leakage. Obstruction is okay as long as the ASET shows that the center does have "life"
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
10,307
THanks Mathews!!!!! I don't even have the words. I've asked for ASET and see what comes from it. I'll forward yourscreenshots to him



Wow that is very informative!!! My mind is blown and confused, so much information to digest.

I am going to read this one more time to absorb everything!!!



Karl thanks and expecially for creating that page on steps cuts. Am I reading this correctly. The black parts in the video / photo could be obstruction rather light leakage. Obstruction is okay as long as the ASET shows that the center does have "life"
Yes they are obstruction. The right amount is tricky, some to form patterns is good, to much makes the stone dark.
The most important thing is that it flashes quickly when moved and that it reduces with distance.
Of course you can't tell distance with videos but you can see if they are flashing on and off.
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,117
I saw something on the girdle. Not sure if it’s a feather or an indented natural.

@Und I would tell you to look at as many in person as you can and pick one.
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
10,117
It won’t let me insert the photo. It’s probably fine given the clarity. I just wanted to point it out.

C3DA7D93-86BC-4226-8407-139D2A525146.jpeg
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,845
Personally speaking I don't think the obstruction/contrast/darkness will be too much of an issue in real life - the camera is going to be perhaps head-distance away from the stones in the video setup?? or maybe even nearer, which might mean it shows more obstruction than is likely to occur 'in real life' and on the finger :)

If I'm understanding things correctly, that is... :???: lol


re: leakage, when it's facing 45 degrees left, so sort of facing the bottom left corner of the screen, if you pause it and look at it, the middle and lower of the pavilion facets facing you (so on the opposite side of the stone to where the camera is located) go kind of... quiet? Like not much is happening and there is not much contrast visible?


I think it's a reasonable stone but I think it could also be a bit better - I acknowledge the fact that good step cuts are very difficult to find, of course... :D lol


If the jeweller already has it on the way, have a look at it in a wide range of lighting - sparkly magic store lighting, 'flat' uplighters or a cloudy sky (with no direct light sources), under a tree, in spotlights, sunlight... It may be that there is no leakage that is an issue, but I am thinking there may be some more finger visible than one might desire at some angles. (I may be wrong!)


If the jeweller does have ASET, ask him to humour you and set it up for the stone(s) that is/are coming in - as already mentioned, it is a useful exercise in all shapes, although not the be-all-and-end-all for fancies/stepcuts.


If you decide to not go with any of the stones and end up going online or elsewhere, it would be cool/kind to offer the jeweller some recompense for his efforts and shipping/insurance expenses :) If he is showing you wholesale prices and revealing his markup on those to help you along the process, that is even better and remarkable open of him :) (assuming the wholesaler prices shown are completely genuine... lol)
 

Und

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
29
Okay I got off the phone with him and he said they don't have the technology to do a ASET image and only the big 4/[8] do. Mark has given me another video



I saw something on the girdle. Not sure if it’s a feather or an indented natural.

@Und I would tell you to look at as many in person as you can and pick one.
I did see this and asked Mark. He is saying this magnified x20, you wouldn't see anything in real life.

I agree with you. It's just with the current situation its hard to see and alot of wolesalers don't have much to see unless you pick the stone and have it imported. Australia is just a much much smaller market

He is also saying that this by far the best diamond he can see on the market at the moment within my specs. Inclusion likely shouldn't be visible to the naked eye

I am certainly confused about what to do! He is saying he would get this stone if he was in my position, but he's not pressuring me. Seems very honest and genuine. Very competitively priced. AUD $14,000 / USD 10,000 including platinum ring and taxes. I might be able to get most of the sales taxes back if I buy locally

It has faint florescence, reading around the interest this should be okay and only a concern if it is rated strong which can give it a milky look.


Personally speaking I don't think the obstruction/contrast/darkness will be too much of an issue in real life - the camera is going to be perhaps head-distance away from the stones in the video setup?? or maybe even nearer, which might mean it shows more obstruction than is likely to occur 'in real life' and on the finger :)

If I'm understanding things correctly, that is... :???: lol
I think as long as in real life it sparkles and is not dead, that is main criteria for me!!! Would you go for this one if you were me?


re: leakage, when it's facing 45 degrees left, so sort of facing the bottom left corner of the screen, if you pause it and look at it, the middle and lower of the pavilion facets facing you (so on the opposite side of the stone to where the camera is located) go kind of... quiet? Like not much is happening and there is not much contrast visible?
I am going to watch it again. It's so hard to notice!!! Good thing the new link I can pause lol

I think it's a reasonable stone but I think it could also be a bit better - I acknowledge the fact that good step cuts are very difficult to find, of course... :D lol
Mark was just saying that. He was like with fancy cuts you are going to have limited choice.
 

Und

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
29
If the jeweller already has it on the way, have a look at it in a wide range of lighting - sparkly magic store lighting, 'flat' uplighters or a cloudy sky (with no direct light sources), under a tree, in spotlights, sunlight... It may be that there is no leakage that is an issue, but I am thinking there may be some more finger visible than one might desire at some angles. (I may be wrong!)


If the jeweller does have ASET, ask him to humour you and set it up for the stone(s) that is/are coming in - as already mentioned, it is a useful exercise in all shapes, although not the be-all-and-end-all for fancies/stepcuts.
He'll only get it if I give the go ahead. He is offering to buy it back from me if I don't like it. I didn't get what you mean by
"but I am thinking there may be some more finger visible than one might desire at some angles. (I may be wrong!)"

If you decide to not go with any of the stones and end up going online or elsewhere, it would be cool/kind to offer the jeweller some recompense for his efforts and shipping/insurance expenses :) If he is showing you wholesale prices and revealing his markup on those to help you along the process, that is even better and remarkable open of him :) (assuming the wholesaler prices shown are completely genuine... lol)
I totally agree (and agree for everyone on thread too :p). He has been very supportive and patient and would like to buy from him if i can. I think he accidentialy showed the wholesaler website which had all the prices in USD which i thought were in AUD and I went oooh that is really cheap!!!!
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 7, 2017
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5,142
I didn't get what you mean by
"but I am thinking there may be some more finger visible than one might desire at some angles. (I may be wrong!)"

This means, while the ring is on the hand, you may see skin through the stone, at some angles.
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
5,142
My concern is there is too much leakage.
An ASET will most certainly be necessary to show this stone’s performance.
It is my least fav of the 4 potential choices.
I need to be more specific, here.
The 4 choices I’m referring to are the 1.14FVVS2, the 2 JA 1.30 suggestions @lovedogs posted, and the preferred stone by your vendor.
If I had to choose a runner up to the 1.14FVVS2 diamond of the choices you originally posted, it would be 1.21EVS2.
I think to be certain about what YOU like, videos of the 1.14 and the 1.21 should be provided for comparison to the vendor’s preferred stone.
Look at all 3, and then make your decision.
 

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
10,117
Okay I got off the phone with him and he said they don't have the technology to do a ASET image and only the big 4/[8] do. Mark has given me another video





I did see this and asked Mark. He is saying this magnified x20, you wouldn't see anything in real life.

I agree with you. It's just with the current situation its hard to see and alot of wolesalers don't have much to see unless you pick the stone and have it imported. Australia is just a much much smaller market

He is also saying that this by far the best diamond he can see on the market at the moment within my specs. Inclusion likely shouldn't be visible to the naked eye

I am certainly confused about what to do! He is saying he would get this stone if he was in my position, but he's not pressuring me. Seems very honest and genuine. Very competitively priced. AUD $14,000 / USD 10,000 including platinum ring and taxes. I might be able to get most of the sales taxes back if I buy locally

It has faint florescence, reading around the interest this should be okay and only a concern if it is rated strong which can give it a milky look.




I think as long as in real life it sparkles and is not dead, that is main criteria for me!!! Would you go for this one if you were me?




I am going to watch it again. It's so hard to notice!!! Good thing the new link I can pause lol



Mark was just saying that. He was like with fancy cuts you are going to have limited choice.
It’s not a matter of if you can see it. It’s a matter of fragility when setting. But as I mentioned, in a VS and above, it’s likely not an issue.

My advice is get the largest one possible.

Here is my 1.52c asscher next to a 1.09 round
ED25BB4B-88D0-4C84-BFD5-A69A1DB89737.jpeg
 

Und

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2020
Messages
29
Wow @whitewave!!!!! That 1.5c looks significantly smaller than the brilliant cut. The difference is mind blowing. Just wow!! I see your point about the size

The E
I need to be more specific, here.
The 4 choices I’m referring to are the 1.14FVVS2, the 2 JA 1.30 suggestions @lovedogs posted, and the preferred stone by your vendor.
If I had to choose a runner up to the 1.14FVVS2 diamond of the choices you originally posted, it would be 1.21EVS2.
I think to be certain about what YOU like, videos of the 1.14 and the 1.21 should be provided for comparison to the vendor’s preferred stone.
Look at all 3, and then make your decision.

Yea I am leaning towards the 1.21 E VV2. It has a small imperfection on the side (but unlikely to noticed in the real world?) I am thinking I will go ahead with this stone, everyone thinks it is a reasonable / good stone. May not be perfect?

Gosh we are likely going back into lock down so may not be able to see more stones in person at all :(

Agree with you Matthews, issue is lock down, Australia being a small market I can't see the stones in real life and compare. If you think I can do much better stone for my money, I can wait bit longer and Mark is saying new stones pop up all the time on the market and within my specs there are only ~20 stones on the market
 

Matthews1127

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,142
Wow @whitewave!!!!! That 1.5c looks significantly smaller than the brilliant cut. The difference is mind blowing. Just wow!! I see your point about the size

The E



Yea I am leaning towards the 1.21 E VV2. It has a small imperfection on the side (but unlikely to noticed in the real world?) I am thinking I will go ahead with this stone, everyone thinks it is a reasonable / good stone. May not be perfect?

Gosh we are likely going back into lock down so may not be able to see more stones in person at all :(

Agree with you Matthews, issue is lock down, Australia being a small market I can't see the stones in real life and compare. If you think I can do much better stone for my money, I can wait bit longer and Mark is saying new stones pop up all the time on the market and within my specs there are only ~20 stones on the market
No harm in comparing the 1.21EVS2.
It looks like a strong contender, and it hits that 1.2ct mark!
As long as your vendor has a nice return policy and a decent return window, you can still examine the stones in person, after you receive them. Return the ones you don’t like, and keep the one that makes your heart sing.
If you’re not in a hurry, it gives you time to see what else is out there. In the meantime, take advantage of the comparison.
This will help you decide what features you prefer, and that may help you narrow your options a bit.
This process is supposed to be fun. Enjoy this part of your journey. ;)2
 

Und

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
29
No harm in comparing the 1.21EVS2.
It looks like a strong contender, and it hits that 1.2ct mark!
As long as your vendor has a nice return policy and a decent return window, you can still examine the stones in person, after you receive them. Return the ones you don’t like, and keep the one that makes your heart sing.
If you’re not in a hurry, it gives you time to see what else is out there. In the meantime, take advantage of the comparison.
This will help you decide what features you prefer, and that may help you narrow your options a bit.
This process is supposed to be fun. Enjoy this part of your journey. ;)2
Thank you Matthews :) I've been stressing and thinking too much about it rather than taking time to enjoy it


Ghosh we going into next of lock down and I want to propose in September / October. So I tell Mark to go ahead with E VVS2 and it was already sold!!!!

Arrrrgh
 

Und

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2020
Messages
29
I've spent some time with Mark and he is saying the F VVS 2 he originally proposed (pun intended8-)) is great value.

Options:
* Mark's F VVS2 1.203 Luster: L1 EX EX EX SQ Emerald
https://dna.stonehdfile.com/ViewHD.html?d=620314376

* JA F VS1 1.2 5.9 x 5.89
This looks like a good stone. Some inclusions, not visible to naked eye?
It has a higher "crown"
* 1.21 E VVS2 6.11*5.96 EX EX
This has the biggest face, more visible diamond. But the diamond doesn't seem as nice or it that just me?
Lower crown


* E VS 1
Doesn't "feel" right / feels hazy
 
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