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Asscher cut madness

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
My OCD is making it impossible to choose my asscher. Researching this for days myself is a lot like diagnosis a lump on Web md. Thank you in advance because I have learned so much from threads on this site. But i fear, just enough to be dangerous.

I am buying online and using james allen. Thank you for making that decision easier. I decided on the asscher because I like making things more difficult. I understand the clarity is more important with this shape, but cut is still king.

My concern is that I'm out thinking myself. I am interested in a roughly 1 carat stone for around 5-5500, I can wiggle some. I've gone over or under by 08. I've primarily shopped vvs/h or ^/and very good or ^ for polish and symmetry. I always find a feather on the girdle, or a cloud in the meat of the stone. Something to scare me. Could you please straighten me out on my expectations. I realize it's 20x's magnification on the site, but like I said....OCD.

What I have found is an f color /if clarity that is not the proper dimensions for an asscher based on this trusted site. Here it is....
L=5.41/w=5.33/d=3.91
Depth=73.20 (I know it's high,probably to get it to 1c)
Table =66
Girdle=very thick
Polish/symmetry=very good
Color=f
Clarity=if

Is it awful? Is it ok? If it's bad due to the cut, am I just being paranoid about the flaws in the stones I've dismissed? Sorry to ramble, thank you in advance
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think it faces up too small due to depth and the thick girdle. I'll try to look it up. There's no way we can tell you if it is a good one without seeing it.

VS1 is totally fine for an asscher.

I don't love that one. I'll see what I can find. You want 5.5mm diameter for a 1 ct asscher. They face up small. Are you setting it in a halo?
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
Firstly, thanks for you time. I was actually thinking solitaire. I'm not sure she'll like anything cluttered with small stones to give the illusion of size. Same thinking on staying away from brilliant cuts. They can hide more flawa. Am I stupid for thinking that's cheating,lol? I do believe she'll appreciate a single stone ring regardless. Seems her style, but I'm definitely open to suggestions on the setting as well. If I went brilliant, I think I'd have to go with a princess or an oval. I am prone to get tunnel vision on a decision, but will always acknowledge experienced advice.

I'm fairly set on the solitaire band. I think 1 carat will look amazing on her small hand. If I'm biting off too much for my price range in an asscher, I'm open to suggestions.

And since I'm new to forums and slow on my phone, I'm not sure how to link my diamond candidate to the thread. I'm about to check out the one you've posted. Thanks
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Well, a 1 ct, 5.5 mm in an asscher is quite a bit smaller than 1 ct 6.4mm in a round. I am not following what you are saying about brilliant cuts. You can get good clarity so you aren't hiding a thing. Rounds are going to have the best light return of any shape if well cut.

Has she told you what shapes she likes best or ones she dislikes? Because princess, oval, and asscher are very different from each other. I would not buy a one carat asscher to set in a solitaire unless this is her most loved diamond shape.

One more thing. A halo is to enhance the look of a stone just as paintings are placed in beautiful frames. Yes, they can enhance the size, but a fine quality halo setting is delicate and compliments the center stone.

I am not sure I could post a link from my phone. I am copying and pasting the link on a computer.
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
Well, now that I have some help, my anxiety level is down a few points. I know she'd love, I mean love, anything I chose. Generally her jewelry is not over the top and has nothing to do with trends. She usually wears a single stone in pendants and earrings. She manages a simple, but elegant look no matter what she wears. I believe the solitaire is the way to go.

As far as diamonds, thanks for introducing me to GOG. That imaging stuff is a neat thingy . Don't mean to get all technical on you,lol.

I had read that the fancy cuts, like radiant and princess, can hide imperfections better due to all of the facets. It is very probable that I misunderstood the intent of that statement. It's probably a good thing, right?

May I ask your input on what shapes and cuts would work well in a solitaire? This taking into account my minimum 1carat for roughly 5k. Princess is out though. I was married briefly once before and no decision will be duplicated. The reoccurring shapes in her jewelry containing stones is square to rectangular. Should I be looking for a cushion or radiant? Will I get more bang for the buck with a particular cut?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It is true that brilliant cuts can hide inclusions more than a step cut, such as asscher or emerald cut. I pretty much only look at VS1 and higher for step cuts. I prefer VS for everything, but many here go to SI1 to get more size for the budget.

I think maybe cushion would be a nice compromise for you and maybe get you a little more spread. I think princess and radiant are a little more apt to go in and out of style.

Good Old Gold is a good place to find fancy cuts. My current diamond came from there. Incidentally, I have always had a plain solitaire setting for my original engagement ring and the current one which was for an anniversary. I was mainly concerned about the size of a solitaire asscher.

I will post a few stones for you.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Modern cushions (larger than the asschers...always look at diameter instead of weight to compare size)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-g-vvs2-signature-modern-cushion-diamond.html

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-e-si1-signature-modern-cushion-diamond.html

antique style, ideal cut cushion:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/0.93ct-i-vs2-august-vintage-cushion-diamond.html

hearts and arrows cushions (the August Vintage and modern cushions above have a larger diameter than these):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1.0ct-i-vvs2-platunin-square-hearts-and-arrows-square-cushion-diamond.html

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1ct-g-vs2.html


Start with these and see if you like any of them and if there is a type you prefer, I can look for more of that type tomorrow. But GOG is really a great place to buy fancy shapes since they provide the light return images.
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
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Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
I appreciate your insight into this. I will look forward to your finds. Of the two, which is the more important factor with a cushion cut, color or clarity ?
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
The first modern cut posted and the first heart and arrows are beautiful! If I read correctly, the modern would appear larger? I'm slightly leaning towards the hearts and arrows. Somehow it seems almost 3 dimensional to me. That's not quite what I want to say, but it jumps out at me. What is the purpose of the hearts and arrows line compare to the others? What's different or unique about it?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jusruf|1455253914|3990036 said:
The first modern cut posted and the first heart and arrows are beautiful! If I read correctly, the modern would appear larger? I'm slightly leaning towards the hearts and arrows. Somehow it seems almost 3 dimensional to me. That's not quite what I want to say, but it jumps out at me. What is the purpose of the hearts and arrows line compare to the others? What's different or unique about it?
The idea is to get the ideal light return of a modern round brilliant in a stone that is more cushion shaped. The downside is that they face up smaller than modern cushions (deep). These two are about the size of a .75 ct round brilliant. I can look for more tomorrow at other vendors to see if we can find any that face up larger.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,198
I think that Diamondseeker's suggestion of a modern cushions is brilliant.

Pick the nicest one you can find. If you want more options, I am happy to help you find a stone as well.
 

Gypsy

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Jusruf

Rough_Rock
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Feb 11, 2016
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I found one of the selected from enchanted diamond site. The brilliant cushions that are there seem to fall in the x factor category. I'm getting more confused than ever about what clarity really means. I see vvs2 with multiple feather, cloud, natural somethings(?), and quite a few in some cases. Then I'll see a vs2 with a single pinpoint? How's that work? Also, the hearts and arrows I liked is an I for color. Low for the recommendations, but I'm setting it in a yellow gold solitaire so..... ? Speaking of bands, should I love the bezel, or hate it? I can't decide. Definitely not a common choice in my area. It does grab your attention and looks like it would really secure the stone compared to prongs?

You both are life savers by the way!!!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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What does the wearer want. Do they have a pinterest account?
 

Gypsy

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Go to the GIA site and look up and read their explanation about clarity ratings it will help you. AGS also has good information on the subject.
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
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She doesn't have a pint rest account. I've definitely read about the diffences in clarity. That's why I'm wondering if I might be misunderstanding. I'm understanding vvs would have less inclusion than vs. Vs having less that si. But, for instance, a vs2 you suggested looks to only have a pinpoint...... and a beautiful cut by the way! I was browsing the site and couldn't find a vvs at my price point that had so few imperfections. This opinion only being based on the GIA image or diagram? Not sure what that is really called.

I'll be asleep in a few hours, but when I'm up for work, I'm excited to see what you've both offered! Thanks
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
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Feb 11, 2016
Messages
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For instance Gypsy, I believe your third choice has only a pinpoint. Your first two picks, this being from a tired memory, have a higher color, but more numerous flaws. Yet the clarity rating I believe is still the same. What's you educated reasoning behind tour ranking system?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It's not the number of the inclusions only. It's where they are placed on the stone. Whether they risk safety (VS2 and above do not) and how large the inclusion is.

You could have an SI2 that has a clarity grade based solely on clouds not shown. That means there's clouds everywhere and they probably impede the light performance.

You could have a VS1 based on clouds not shown. That means they are hard to find suckers and do not impede performance.

My own stone is a Vs1. It's an asscher, so high clarity was kind of what we were stuck with. MY grade setting inclusion (first one listed) is a teeny tiny (seriously I cannot find the sucker with my 10x loupe, I have to use the 40x loupe to find it) cloud. My only other inclusion is a pinpoint that you cannot see at ALL as it is hidden near the girdle. I have had my stone appraised a number of times and usually the appraisers say it's a VVS2. When I tell them it's a VS1 they all say, "must be because that cloud is under the table, if it was in a different location it definitely would have been a VVS2". And in fact, if I every do unset the thing, I am planning on sending it back to GIA and see if it comes back higher (I've also been told it is a high F, so if it came back an E VVS I'd be doing cart wheels if I ever wanted to sell it). Remember these things are a spectrum and they are graded by people. One person's VS could be another's SI. Also the ranges are not equal. IF range is very narrow. SI1 range is very wide and permissive. It's best said here: http://www.jckonline.com/2016/01/20/diamond-grading-reports-flawless-or-imperfect

I think you are kinda fixating. My husband has OCD and he does this. That's why he went to 5 states to find me the perfect stone.

Here's what you REALLY need to know about clarity. VS1 and over. Nothing matters. Seriously. Your inclusions are safe and will not be visible to the naked eye. Just consider them inclusion free for all intents and purposes. At VS2 all the inclusions will be safe in terms of structure. But may not be eyeclean. So you have to check for that.

And while I routintely recommend SI stones. I do not think you are a good candidate for those. So let's just avoid them, shall we?

What kind of setting does the wearer want. Let's start there, okay?
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
I think I understand finally, thanks a LOT. I am dialed in on a solitaire. Clean and elegant, like her. Based on her style and some of her jewelry, I think I'm choosing wisely. I've always been pretty on point with her wants. Anyway, the single diamond front and center is part of the reason I've been so worried about the clarity. She is shorter and has relatively small hands, so I'm hoping 1 carat looks large on her finger. She has been previously sized at 4.5.

Finally understanding a little better, I can loosen my criteria a bit. Who knows, maybe I can find more stone in my price range. You both have already shown me some wonderful diamonds. I would welcome more, and am thankful for what I've received so far
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If there isn't a set date you have in mind, I recommend, personally, that you wait maybe 6 months and save up a bit more.


Alternately, if you have the option. In my opinion the best thing you can do is order the D stone I picked for you from ED. It had a 6mm spread, a great price. And D color to boot.

And then also get one of the hearts and arrows stones you liked at GOG.

Get them both sent to you. And decide in person what catches your heart.

Honestly, it's the best way to go.

And as long as you watch those return policies. You can send back the stone you do not decide to keep and then we'll work on getting a setting for the one you do. And you can tell us what your budget looks like for that so we can recommend some nice ones in budget.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If your setting budget is tight, these are the best budget settings that do not compromise quality for a cushion solitaire I know of:
http://www.stuller.com/products/build/122089/10315844/?groupId=120319#/center-stone Any jeweler can get it for you. Including a good local bench.
http://www.stuller.com/products/build/122100/?groupId=119111#/center-stone

If you have more than a 400-800 setting budget (which is about what these would run, I would recommend specifying Stuller X1 14kt white gold as it does not need replating and is budget friendly), then we can explore some other settings.
,
Like these, either of which would look fantastic with a cushion in platinum:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/novela-platinum-5517p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/melanie-platinum-5374p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-truth-solitaire-platinum-5369p
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
14
thanks again gypsy. my girl is a yellow gold woman. those settings are so nice though. Your first choice diamond is beautiful. It has medium fluorescence though. Isn't that a bad thing? How bad if so? I actually was admiring the second and third coices. Well, the girdle seemed all over the place in the third with only a G for color, which isn't bad, right? The second choice seemed solid though and had no fluorescence. Is that really a non issue? How does your second pick measure against the first?
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
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Feb 11, 2016
Messages
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thanks again gypsy. my girl is a yellow gold woman. those settings are so nice though. Your first choice diamond is beautiful. It has medium fluorescence though. Isn't that a bad thing? How bad if so? I actually was admiring the second and third coices. Well, the girdle seemed all over the place in the third with only a G for color, which isn't bad, right? The second choice seemed solid though and had no fluorescence. Is that really a non issue? How does your second pick measure against the first?
 

queradas

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Gypsy|1455259654|3990066 said:
I think that Diamondseeker's suggestion of a modern cushions is brilliant.
LOL as if we he wasn't confused enough a brilliant cut is a brilliant suggestion. :cheeky:
 

diamondseeker2006

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So glad Gypsy came to show you more cushions! :appl:

Regarding clarity, VS1 and higher, you do not even need to look at the inclusion plot because you cannot see the inclusions, period. VS2 is a great choice because those are usually very eyeclean, but I always ask. For you, and many people buying online, I recommend VS1-VS2 so you don't have to worry about inclusions. Let's just eliminate SI and then we don't have to worry.

Fluorescence is beautiful. There is no reason in the world to avoid medium or faint. Rarely is there a problem with Strong Blue Fl. unless the clarity of the stone is low. The history of fl. is interesting and at one point the jewelry trade decided to dismiss fl as being bad and sometimes you get a price break on them. But I will tell you that I had a stone with medium blue for about 25 years and never knew it until I took it to a jeweler considering a reset! I actively seek fl now.

Just so you know, most people who get a yellow gold solitaire get the head part that holds the stone in platinum so the yellow prongs don't reflect in the diamond. The prongs should be basically invisible to make the stone be the thing you see and then the shank will be the yellow gold. I think you can go to I color in the hearts and arrows type cushion, although I don't love how small they face up. I would go with H color or higher in the modern cushions. Well cut modern cushions will probably be the best choice for you.
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
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Feb 11, 2016
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Diamondseeker, thank you for being a crucial part of this process. Gypsy, thank you as well. You both have made this even kind of fun! My final decision is between the hearts and arrows or the modern that was gypsy's first choice. It all comes down to a more detailed pattern or a little more appearance of size. But either of the two will be perfect for different reasons! I'll start looking at settings with a white gold or platinum top. I have time on that part as I've decided I won't explode if the diamond is not immediately set in a ring. I'm waiting about 6 more months anyway, but feel the need to purchase the diamond while I am still have the income to absorb $5000. Most likely won't be the case in the future due to my flailing industry.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Jusruf|1455311184|3990281 said:
Diamondseeker, thank you for being a crucial part of this process. Gypsy, thank you as well. You both have made this even kind of fun! My final decision is between the hearts and arrows or the modern that was gypsy's first choice. It all comes down to a more detailed pattern or a little more appearance of size. But either of the two will be perfect for different reasons! I'll start looking at settings with a white gold or platinum top. I have time on that part as I've decided I won't explode if the diamond is not immediately set in a ring. I'm waiting about 6 more months anyway, but feel the need to purchase the diamond while I am still have the income to absorb $5000. Most likely won't be the case in the future due to my flailing industry.
You seriously can just set it in a simple solitaire. I had that exact kind of setting for my original e-ring for many years. I really would have the diamond vendor set it so you can insure it, unless you are putting it in a safe deposit box. Here's an example of yellow gold with a platinum head that can work with the stones you are looking at, but show the diamond vendor this pic as they can all get it. As you can see, it is $475. Usually if you get the setting from the diamond vendor, they won't charge a setting fee and they cover the stone for damage while being set. Use a second jeweler and your stone is not really covered for damage, and the jeweler will usually charge an extra setting fee.

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/4-prong-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-3686.htm

All the H&A cushions and nice modern cushion Gypsy found are all very close in size, so I think you can go in either direction. The modern stone is just slightly larger which might get my vote because it also has one of the best cuts I have ever seen on a modern cushion.
 

Jusruf

Rough_Rock
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Feb 11, 2016
Messages
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I've actually chosen almost that exact style of solitaire. I've actually been mimicking the criteria that you and Gypsy have put together for me. I've been looking around just to really compare armed with a better understanding. I actually have 2 or 3 added to the 2 already in contention. I've found a couple with excellent table and very good depth. G-f color, and vvs to ensure my sanity. I've found some medium girdle as well as a thin with no variations. Avoiding feathers on the edges, but not stressing other inclusions due to vvs criteria. I think the two I've picked from you and gypsy will still be one of my choices, but this is kinda fun now.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I really REALLY REALLY think you should get the D. It's freaking gorgeous. And no fluorescence isn't a negative in the large majority of stones and actually D's with fluorescence used to cost more as they were sold (fraudulently, as "blue-white" diamonds). It's only a problem if it causes haziness which is REALLY unlikely in medium. And the ED gemologist will be honest with you and let you know if it's an issue.

Medium blue is great. D color is special. And will be blinding in a gorgeous yellow gold setting. All the settings I posted for you come in yellow gold. If you want yellow gold for for 18kt. It will be nice and creamy rich in hue.

I agree with diamond seeker on the platinum head. I personally would go for this setting: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-truth-solitaire-18k-yellow-gold-5369y18 platinum head, just like pictured. It will be super elegant and breathtaking.

And that setting will let her get any band she wants with a flush fit (important to most women) for her wedding band. And if she decides she doesn't want to change her setting, and you are right and a solitaire is perfect for her, this one has the quality and the style to be a permanent setting not just a temp. It's 850.

And the D is already under budget. It's 5000, PLUS 1% off right now for valentines day. So I would spring for the nicer setting.

I had a temp setting for 4 years myself. I was so attached to it I put a lovely colored stone in it once I re-set my diamond and loved wearing it (until I was robbed) and I am glad that my setting was such nice quality because then I got two rings out of the deal.

I think, no offense, but that 400 setting LOOKS cheap. And it would bring down the whole point of getting the nicest stone you can. Because while the stone is key the setting is what frames it and what your lady will see from her perspective (profile). So since it's only an additional 300 bucks. Go for the nicer setting.
 
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