arrows but no hearts?

[Sam82]

My diamond came from Whiteflash''s expert selection. I can see arrows when I look at it. Does that mean my ring is a H&A stone? Can you have arrows without hearts?

 

[stone-cold11]

Only their ACA are sold as H&A, thus with the H&A image displayed. Their ES are not sold as H&A probably is not. It is much easier to get a good arrows image than a hearts image because more facets needs to be aligned properly to get that.

 

[Josh48329]

Following that reply, which I believe I correctly understand, would one be able to tell the difference between one of their ACA stones and a similar ES one once it is set? Obviously each stone is unique, but I''m asking for a general case.

Sorry for the slight thread hijack!

 

[stone-cold11]

Depends on how off the facet alignment is. I believe it is possible for some of the less well aligned stone, but there are also some that are impossible to tell from a H&A except maybe an expert. One thing to note is that the ACA is cut to the traditional definition of a H&A, some proportions can have excellent optical symm too but still rejected from a traditional H&A definition, like the modified H&A of GOG.

 

[Hest88]

It depends on strict your definition is. Yes, there will be heart. The question is whether or not they''ll be in perfect alignment.

 

[noob2010]

Date: 12/6/2009 8:08:48 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Depends on how off the facet alignment is. I believe it is possible for some of the less well aligned stone, but there are also some that are impossible to tell from a H&A except maybe an expert. One thing to note is that the ACA is cut to the traditional definition of a H&A, some proportions can have excellent optical symm too but still rejected from a traditional H&A definition, like the modified H&A of GOG.

What is the modified H&A from GOG and why is it rejected from the traditional H&A definition. I assume the WF ACA is a traditional H&A?

Thanks

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/6/2009 11:51:56 PM
Author: noob2010

Date: 12/6/2009 8:08:48 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Depends on how off the facet alignment is. I believe it is possible for some of the less well aligned stone, but there are also some that are impossible to tell from a H&A except maybe an expert. One thing to note is that the ACA is cut to the traditional definition of a H&A, some proportions can have excellent optical symm too but still rejected from a traditional H&A definition, like the modified H&A of GOG.

What is the modified H&A from GOG and why is it rejected from the traditional H&A definition. I assume the WF ACA is a traditional H&A?

Thanks

The traditional H&A must have a heart shape without a cleft in the middle of it. The GOG are modified to have thinner more splintery arrows and a as a result you see a cleft in the hearts image which would disqualify them from the traditional stringent criteria of hearts and arrows. However the optical symmetry of these are still ideal even though you can't see a perfectly formed heart. See this diamond and hearts image below:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4337/

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Cleft Seen Here.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/6/2009 11:51:56 PM
Author: noob2010

Date: 12/6/2009 8:08:48 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Depends on how off the facet alignment is. I believe it is possible for some of the less well aligned stone, but there are also some that are impossible to tell from a H&A except maybe an expert. One thing to note is that the ACA is cut to the traditional definition of a H&A, some proportions can have excellent optical symm too but still rejected from a traditional H&A definition, like the modified H&A of GOG.

What is the modified H&A from GOG and why is it rejected from the traditional H&A definition. I assume the WF ACA is a traditional H&A?

Thanks

The modified h&a from GOG have longer lower girdle facets, Jon has these specially cut as he and some of his clients particularly like that look, this can give a more splintery appearance to the arrows and give the effect of sharp flashes of light. As the LGF''s get longer, a cleft or split in the arrow pattern can be seen that more traditional h&a diamonds do not have. Yes, the WF ACA is of the traditional h&a type.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/6/2009 7:45:15 PM
Author: Josh48329
Following that reply, which I believe I correctly understand, would one be able to tell the difference between one of their ACA stones and a similar ES one once it is set? Obviously each stone is unique, but I''m asking for a general case.

Sorry for the slight thread hijack!

Some ES are '' near miss'' ACA and there would be little to no visual difference between these two types when set. Some ES '' fail'' as ACA due to various reasons such as a heart is a little off but these can be an excellent choice for the customer who isn''t bothered about having picture perfect h&a.

 

[Liane]

Date: 12/6/2009 7:45:15 PM
Author: Josh48329
Following that reply, which I believe I correctly understand, would one be able to tell the difference between one of their ACA stones and a similar ES one once it is set? Obviously each stone is unique, but I''m asking for a general case.

Prefatory disclaimer: I don''t have a WF ES, but an ideal-cut stone from another vendor that probably would be an ES if it were a WF diamond (excellent arrow pattern, teeny-tiny deviation on the heart side that prevents it from being ACA-level perfect).

I haven''t seen an ES in person, but assuming that an ES looks like my diamond (which I think is probably fair to say), I personally cannot see any difference whatsoever with the naked eye. Under a H&A viewer I can tell the difference, but it takes some studying -- the deviation is very small -- and since you can''t see the heart side at all once the diamond is set, to my eye the stones look identical when mounted. An average viewer would probably have a hard time telling any discrepancy even in the H&A viewer; it takes some practice to pick out the difference.

In real life, no, I don''t think that there is any practical difference. Remember that we''re talking about something the size of a pencil eraser, and IRL the arrows don''t show up as starkly pronounced as they do in the photos; they''re more like pale streaks amid the sparkle. Mine''s a 2-carat stone, so bigger than average, but we are still talking about something that is very hard to see in real life.

ACA may be important to people for peace of mind, bragging rights, or just because it makes them happier to have that extra above-and-beyond level of perfection. Those are all perfectly reasonable priorities to have and I''m not criticizing anyone who holds them. A true H&A stone is a thing of beauty.

But in real life, an ES is also a beautifully cut stone that is better than 99% of the other rounds you will see, and it is going to look just as good. You will be able to see the arrows; you won''t be able to see the hearts once it''s set. So it''s a matter of whether you want to pay the premium for that extra prestige. In terms of what you can see on a daily basis, IMO there is no difference.

 

[Liane]

Now that I think about it, a good comparison might be buying an IF stone vs. a VS1 stone. There is a cost difference. One is objectively more perfect than the other. You might be able to pick out the difference under magnification, although lots of people won''t be able to do that without help even on a magnified image. With the naked eye, a sharp-eyed specialist might be able to see the flaw, but for the most part, the stones will look exactly the same.

So it comes down to whether you want to pay that premium for a tiny bit more perfection. Both stones will be beautiful regardless.

 

[Todd Gray]

The matter at hand is Cut Performance vs. Cut Precision:

Cut Performance refers to the Cut Quality of the diamond in terms of the overall combination of proportions, meaning the measurements of the primary sections of the diamond and the consistency of facet shape, size and alignment within each section... This is what labs such as the GIA and AGS consider when they grade a diamond for polish, symmetry and proportions.

Cut Precision is used to indicate the degree of Optical Symmetry to which the diamond was crafted. It is how precisely the diamond cutter aligned the facets of the diamond opposite of each other and this is a primary determining factor with regards to the presence and quality of an H&A pattern. This factor is taken into consideration by the AGS laboratory as part of their Light Performance rating - however not to the higher degree that it is considered by most PS vendors and PS level consumers.

 

[Hest88]

In real life, I seriously doubt you''d be able tell the difference.