Are you sick of highly paid teachers?

[Arkteia]

Where did you get babysitting prices? I pay $ 20.00 an hour to my son's babysitter. Granted, she is a university student working at her pre-law degree... so she can not work for more than 3 hours a day, which in reality comes up to 5 hours x 3 days a week... Let me get my calculator...

20 x 15 = 300 a week... now you multiply it by the amount of students...

I'm with you, Haven

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Where did you get babysitting prices? I pay $ 20.00 an hour to my son's babysitter. Granted, she is a university student working at her pre-law degree... so she can not work for more than 3 hours a day, which in reality comes up to 5 hours x 3 days a week... Let me get my calculator...

20 x 15 = 300 a week... now you multiply it by the amount of students...

I'm with you, Haven

How old is your son? $20 an hour? That's outrageous!

 

[Arkteia]

He is 7. I was looking for someone very good. She helps him with his homework, teaches him to read better... The going price in our neighborhood is $ 15.00 I presume. When he was born, it was $ 10.00 an hour. I would not be able to find anyone really good for less than $ 15.00 an hour, given the fact that it is not a full working week. My schedule is also unpredictable. Our house is on a mountain, hence all snow turns into black ice here. MC, you know the weather situation - last week for a few days I could not drive out of the house. So my son stayed with my babysitter and her family for two days, because their house is in the area which is much lower than mine. The babysitter is 100% dependable. If I need her for the weekend, she'll postpone her plans and stay with him.

And here is the situation with the school. My son has severe learning disabilities and a poor (unusual) eyesight. He is in a special ed program. I can not imagine how schools find funds for such programs. I donate to the school district, of course, but I do not know how many other people do. When my son was going to Appliled Behavioral Program, I had to pay out of pocket because my insurance did not cover this service. It was $ 200.00 for an hour and 45 minutes. The woman who worked with him was neither a teacher nor a therapist, just had ABA certification.

Actually, my son did better with his babysitter and when I saw that being with her and her family contributed more to his development I pulled him out of ABA. Now I plan to send him to a good dyslexia specialist. (Which will also be out of pocket). But the school does the same job, there is a person working for him all day long, and I do not have to pay anything. I do not know how the teachers manage. At least my son does not have behavioral problems, but many kids do, and it adds up to stress. Yet some parents I know (too many) complain of schools and teachers.

I am very straightforward, but I hope that people here will understand me. When we hear about some catastrophes or problems occurring anywhere else in the world, we respond, send donations, auction. We are very proactive when it comes to some big-time causes. To me, closing schools and firing hundreds of teachers is a national catastrophe. Because teachers are the backbone of any civilization. Yet I never heard of any teachers relief fund, nor is the general public viewing the situation as catastrophic. I am still shocked that schools do not have major auctions. Why any major body, opera, museum, can call for donations and the school can not is beyond my comprehension.

Teachers absolutely need a union.

 

[Haven]

crasru--This is a great book for parents of children with dyslexia:
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Life-D...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298849204&sr=8-1

Author Bob Frank is dyslexic, himself. He earned a PhD and is now a psychology professor and chair at a community college. The book gives a really unique perspective on dyslexia, and I think it's a great read for anyone who has a dyslexic child.

 

[CherryBlossom]

Just read this in an article in response to people claiming that public employees are to be blamed for the states debt

‎"public employees are taking responsibility for their contributions to the debt and are willing to increase their contribution to their health care premium, but to say collective bargaining is the chief driver of budget deficits is wrong since the five states in the country that ban collective bargaining have a collective debt right now of $222 billion. So this is not about economics. "This isn't about the budget crisis. Let's look at how his arguments migrated, The members out there said, 'We'll accept their cuts. But Governor Walker said, 'No, we won't accept accepting our cuts.' The most outrageous thing he did is (say) ... you have to accept the loss of your rights or we're going to lay you off."

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Sorry I missed most of the discussion, but I think the field of education is in deep trouble. I taught for many years, mostly hearing impaired and learning disabilities. I specialize in dyslexia (private training paid for by myself) and currently tutor dyslexic children privately after working many years in high poverty public schools. I never felt I was paid what I deserved, yet I had great satisfaction teaching children whom the system had otherwise failed to teach to read.

Good teachers are definitely underpaid, but I did see some people who shouldn't have been teaching. Raising the pay would probably raise the quality of new teachers. However, we will not keep great teachers when schools have poor discipline and parents do not support teachers. Our older daughter graduated Summa Cum Laude from college and went on to get her Master's in Reading with all A's, and taught 5th grade for 2 years. She had some kids that were just out of control, and she had weak administrators who did not support the teachers by dealing with the discipline problems. We need to teach people that education is a right AND a privilege. Our daughter felt frustration day after day and could not teach the way she desired. So she quit and is doing nanny work while trying to build up some private reading clients. We can't afford to lose the brightest teachers. But I didn't blame her one bit for quitting. Our youngest is in a public charter high school that has RULES which are actually followed and children either follow the rules or they are out of there! Guess what?! Children actually get to LEARN there!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

This is going to be an unpopular post, but here I go. I do think teachers are under paid, however, I would LOVE to make 50K for 10 months of work after I complete my masters. I won't get that even working 12 months. I think there are pros and cons with any profession. Teachers have awesome vacation time, work hours, and it is great for parents. I am sick of teachers complaining about their pay checks. Pick a different profession then. I certainly did not pick my field for the money. It's about helping people find their true potential. That is a privilege to be part of.

 

[Haven]

This is going to be an unpopular post, but here I go. I do think teachers are under paid, however, I would LOVE to make 50K for 10 months of work after I complete my masters. I won't get that even working 12 months. I think there are pros and cons with any profession. Teachers have awesome vacation time, work hours, and it is great for parents. I am sick of teachers complaining about their pay checks. Pick a different profession then. I certainly did not pick my field for the money. It's about helping people find their true potential. That is a privilege to be part of.

I won't reiterate what's already been discussed (over and over again) about the gross misunderstanding that teachers only work 10 months a year.

I do think you have a good point that teachers shouldn't complain about wanting to earn more money because we choose the profession. The thing is, the piece that I originally posted was NOT written as an outcry for higher pay for teachers. RATHER, it is a RESPONSE to the overwhelming public sentiment that teachers are OVERPAID.

There are numerous (vicious) organizations created for the sheer purpose of promoting the idea that teachers are a drain on society because we are overpaid and underworked. My own state has a particularly strong organization that compiles and publishes searchable "data" about our salaries on a public website. It's laughable, really--my own salary was so inflated I *wish* I earned that much when I taught high school. Nonetheless, these people publish false information in the name of encouraging the public that teachers are overpaid, and obviously, it's working.

 

[Maria D]

Tacori, I don't complain about my pay (which is much less than $50K by the way -- in my district you won't get that with a master's degree until you've had 10 years experience). I do try to set people straight who think that teachers don't deserve the pay they get because they don't work the hours of other professions. We do, even with all the time off. Diamondseeker and Haven -- it's a shame that the conditions you've described (no support from admin in the case of diamondseeker's daughter/brutal schedule in Haven's case) have caused two great teachers to leave the profession. I worry that this is the direction public education is going in.

I wish I had time to continue with this discussion with all you intelligent thoughtful people! I wish there were something we could collectively do. But my Feb vacation is over and it's been back to the grind all weekend long....

 

[swimmer]

Tacori, I don't think most will disagree with you; then again you are in school to become a social worker right? Another poorly compensated group for sure. My teaching salary is just fine, however you won't make 50k your first year teaching here even with a PhD. I teach in a well ranked district in the highest ranked state in almost any way of measuring educational achievement and teachers are fairly well respected (hmmmm, there has to be a correlation there somewhere). I make more than that, but only with 12 years experience, more than 2 masters degrees, coaching sports, advising clubs, (and all the unpaid fun stuff like chaperoning). With only a masters and no years of experience you would get just over 30k (minus 11% pension in your take home of course). But again, I very rarely complain about my salary -I get to change the world every day in strange and small ways.

Starting teacher salary graphic http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary/by_Years_Experience
A comparison of state by state pay http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state of course cost of living impacts this tremendously.

Most states require teachers to take several graduate courses each re-certification cycle, this starts to negate the 2 months off schedule quickly. Some teachers do these courses at night, others over the summer. My contract is for an 8hr day with 55 mins of planning with my co-teacher, 21 mins for lunch, and 6x3 min class changes for bathroom opportunities. Most people find it challenging to then grade/plan for a few hours (and coach for 2 hrs) and then head out to grad school, so the summer is dedicated to continuing education.

I totally agree that some people should not be teaching. I have also encountered mechanics, doctors, a lawyer, a house inspector, and several cops who should not be in their professions. As teachers we are unable to fire our peers (though I have visualized a survivor like "vote them off the island" scenario regularly in our bi-monthly 3hr full body staff meetings). Tenure does get rid of the worst or even the bad if administrators do their jobs. Maybe better pay would compel the best and brightest to go into teaching rather that Wall Street, then again, the new economy might just be doing just that.

Hugs Zoe! I love reading what you have to post and I could never do your job. Seriously, wrangling small people just boggles my mind, my hat is off to you and all who manage to stay upbeat with all the challenges of that short crowd.

MC, HI! just wanted to give you a shout out, I know it sometimes feels yuck to write stuff and no one responds (its like grading research papers and no one reads or learns from the comments! ha!) Of course parents and taxpayers have a seat at this discussion, bring on your suggestions!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I should have mentioned I did not read the replies, something just sort of triggered my response. Teaching is an important profession and they have lots of politics working against them, however, free will comes into play.

Swimmer, not social work but a similar field. Obviously I was not attracted to the field b/c of money, I will not get rich off my career. I am okay with that because I believe in my field. I also will have to have continuing education and STILL will not have anywhere near the vacation days as teachers. I'll be thrilled if I get two weeks a year.

 

[kimchi]

Tacori, you are right, teachers have free will when choosing their careers. Many of us view it as a vocation--we'd be teaching even if we had to do it for free; it's simply a way of life for us that fulfills and enriches our lives.

And it is true that we do get vacation time in excess of other professions. However, either we do not get paid during those months, meaning we have to ration our pay during our working months; or the school district rations it for us, pays us each month, but keeps the interest accumulated by a district worth of employee salaries banked for several months.

 

[Arkteia]

It is not a political discussion, just an observation of my other son, who is majoring in economics and mathematics. When I was discussing lack of respect for teachers, he said, that here, private sector always took priority over public one, and teachers' problem was just one more proof.


I do not remember who was this ancient Greek philosopher (I shall check tomorrow, but let's say, Socrates).
A very rich landowner is knocking at Socrates' door.

- Good morning, Socrates; this handsome lad is my son. I want you to be his teacher.
- Very well, - says Socrates.
- So how much would it cost?
- Two minas.
- That much! Well, I could buy myself two slaves for this price.
- Then do, - says Socrates, - and you'll have two slaves.

This story is off-topic, but I like it. Sorry, it was not Socrates, and the price was not two minas, but it is too late to open a book and check...

 

[ksinger]

And so we are going to thrash endlessly about "bad teachers". We'll hash over how much they make, accountability, unions, whether they should just suck it up and shut up, whether they are saints or devils, fire them all, let God sort them out, blah blah blah, ad nauseum. And at the end of the day, Little Johnny will go home to his alcoholic single mom, in a largely segregated neighborhood where gangs rule supreme, and very little of it will matter. At the beginning, middle, and end of the day, the SINGLE, most important factor in a child's success in school is the quality of his PARENTS. Say it with me all: PARENTS. Parents and factors way WAAAY outside the control of the schools.

The people - and they are many - who have a vested interest in maintaining the status-quo, and in turning the conversation away from the REAL problems affecting education in this country by using the teachers as scapegoat - have succeeded quite nicely.

 

[Missy]

At the beginning, middle, and end of the day, the SINGLE, most important factor in a child's success in school is the quality of his PARENTS.

This is the real problem. Parents who don't parent. Parents who are not excellent role models for their children. Parents who are so dysfunctional they cannot parent their children properly. Education is so very important but parents must lead the way and educate their children as to what values are important and set an example on how to lead one's life. That is the real tragedy. And they never take responsibility. Always looking for another to blame. It's a real shame and this is what is going to affect the future. Step up to the plate parents. And if you don't want the huge responsibility of parenting it is real simple. Don't have children. Please.

Karen, I am so very very sorry about the loss of your dad.

 

[ksinger]

At the beginning, middle, and end of the day, the SINGLE, most important factor in a child's success in school is the quality of his PARENTS.

This is the real problem. Parents who don't parent. Parents who are not excellent role models for their children. Parents who are so dysfunctional they cannot parent their children properly. Education is so very important but parents must lead the way and educate their children as to what values are important and set an example on how to lead one's life. That is the real tragedy. And they never take responsibility. Always looking for another to blame. It's a real shame and this is what is going to affect the future. Step up to the plate parents. And if you don't want the huge responsibility of parenting it is real simple. Don't have children. Please.

Karen, I am so very very sorry about the loss of your dad.

Unfortunately, that plea falls on deaf ears. The people on here are able and willing to spend $20 an hour on babysitting or to move heaven and earth to give their kids opportunities, while the people that most need to hear it, are too young and already poor and probably not near the internet. My husband can count double digits of girls on any given day, who are visibly pregnant. And when one shows up finally beginning to show, the other girls run up, koo and pat her belly and congratulate her. THIS is the culture I speak of so despairingly. It is not seen so much in suburban schools, but the inner city, it's far too common. In his career there has been more than one girl who is working on her second child before graduation. The boys are inordinately proud of themselves for their prowess too, with many fathering more than one child - usually with different girls, none of whom they will marry. These children of children are statisically doomed (unless a miracle occurs) before they leave the womb. And so the cycle of poverty repeats...

And thanks for the kind thoughts Missy. They are appreciated.

 

[soberguy]

I understand the desire to raise teachers' salaries... The trouble is: almost every state in the Union has a deficit... the Federal Gov't obviously does... Where do you suggest the money come from? Let's here some solutions...

 

[Missy]

THIS is the culture I speak of so despairingly. It is not seen so much in suburban schools, but the inner city, it's far too common. In his career there has been more than one girl who is working on her second child before graduation. The boys are inordinately proud of themselves for their prowess too, with many fathering more than one child - usually with different girls, none of whom they will marry. These children of children are statisically doomed (unless a miracle occurs) before they leave the womb. And so the cycle of poverty repeats...

You're right. It is a vicious cycle.
If only life were like the movies...Remember To Sir with Love...
I love that movie and if only teachers could make all the difference. But they really cannot. It has to come from the family and then teachers could build upon that foundation- but you need a solid foundation to start.

 

[Missy]

I understand the desire to raise teachers' salaries... The trouble is: almost every state in the Union has a deficit... the Federal Gov't obviously does... Where do you suggest the money come from? Let's here some solutions...

Yes that is a huge problem and most fields I know of are affected. The recession hit many of us hard and many of us had to take reductions in pay/benefits etc or worse yet, lost jobs.
Very few occupations/fields are immune. Unfortunately no one remains unscathed by the difficult economic times we are living in and dealing with now. It is a new playing field and there are no guarantees. Nothing can remain the same. What's that famous saying? Only 2 things in life remain constant- death and taxes.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

He is 7. I was looking for someone very good. She helps him with his homework, teaches him to read better... The going price in our neighborhood is $ 15.00 I presume. When he was born, it was $ 10.00 an hour. I would not be able to find anyone really good for less than $ 15.00 an hour, given the fact that it is not a full working week. My schedule is also unpredictable. Our house is on a mountain, hence all snow turns into black ice here. MC, you know the weather situation - last week for a few days I could not drive out of the house. So my son stayed with my babysitter and her family for two days, because their house is in the area which is much lower than mine. The babysitter is 100% dependable. If I need her for the weekend, she'll postpone her plans and stay with him.

And here is the situation with the school. My son has severe learning disabilities and a poor (unusual) eyesight. He is in a special ed program. I can not imagine how schools find funds for such programs. I donate to the school district, of course, but I do not know how many other people do. When my son was going to Appliled Behavioral Program, I had to pay out of pocket because my insurance did not cover this service. It was $ 200.00 for an hour and 45 minutes. The woman who worked with him was neither a teacher nor a therapist, just had ABA certification.

.

Crasru - okay, the $20 an hour makes a lot more sense. You're really lucky you've found a great nanny who's been so helpful. I've watched kids in the past and don't charge very much, but mostly because the kids have been my kids' ages so all they've done is played and been fed snacks.

Oh, and one friend of my son's had some sort of depth perception issue. I don't remember what exactly it was but he was helped by a local learning center and it was expensive - around $600 a month. Luckily the family could afford it b/c it's helped him tremendously and he's reading at grade level now.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Tacori, I don't complain about my pay (which is much less than $50K by the way -- in my district you won't get that with a master's degree until you've had 10 years experience). I do try to set people straight who think that teachers don't deserve the pay they get because they don't work the hours of other professions. We do, even with all the time off. Diamondseeker and Haven -- it's a shame that the conditions you've described (no support from admin in the case of diamondseeker's daughter/brutal schedule in Haven's case) have caused two great teachers to leave the profession. I worry that this is the direction public education is going in.

I wish I had time to continue with this discussion with all you intelligent thoughtful people! I wish there were something we could collectively do. But my Feb vacation is over and it's been back to the grind all weekend long....

If you go to district websites, you can see how much a teacher makes in your district. For example a teacher w/10 years experience and a master's in my district makes $48,000. The site says BA + 45 w MA. What does the 45 mean?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

MC, HI! just wanted to give you a shout out, I know it sometimes feels yuck to write stuff and no one responds (its like grading research papers and no one reads or learns from the comments! ha!) Of course parents and taxpayers have a seat at this discussion, bring on your suggestions!

Thanks Swimmer

 

[KimberlyH]

I understand the desire to raise teachers' salaries... The trouble is: almost every state in the Union has a deficit... the Federal Gov't obviously does... Where do you suggest the money come from? Let's here some solutions...

Ah, the nitty-gritty of it...I am not a fan of raising taxes, the state and federal governments already misuse what they have (but do believe the recent renewal of tax cuts was a poor choice). Sixty percent of our state budget is allocated to education, as it should be, but knowing how much is funneled in I am baffled by our deficit. But as a teacher I think the pay in the districts I have/will work in is fair.

 

[zoebartlett]

Tacori, I don't complain about my pay (which is much less than $50K by the way -- in my district you won't get that with a master's degree until you've had 10 years experience). I do try to set people straight who think that teachers don't deserve the pay they get because they don't work the hours of other professions. We do, even with all the time off. Diamondseeker and Haven -- it's a shame that the conditions you've described (no support from admin in the case of diamondseeker's daughter/brutal schedule in Haven's case) have caused two great teachers to leave the profession. I worry that this is the direction public education is going in.

I wish I had time to continue with this discussion with all you intelligent thoughtful people! I wish there were something we could collectively do. But my Feb vacation is over and it's been back to the grind all weekend long....

If you go to district websites, you can see how much a teacher makes in your district. For example a teacher w/10 years experience and a master's in my district makes $48,000. The site says BA + 45 w MA. What does the 45 mean?

MC -- the BA + 45 means a BA plus 45 credits. The more education you have, the more you get paid. I'm at a MA + 15, so I have 15 credits above my masters degree.

Also, about the district websites, not all districts have the salary schedule listed. For that, you'd need to go to the individual state's dept. of ed. site. Just know, however, that the salaries mentioned there will not be truly accurate. Mine wasn't.

 

[Arkteia]

I understand the desire to raise teachers' salaries... The trouble is: almost every state in the Union has a deficit... the Federal Gov't obviously does... Where do you suggest the money come from? Let's here some solutions...

The economy is bad. Problem is, things were not so good for teachers even when economy was good. It just has not changed.

The government can do as much as it can do. But we are also talking about parents who feel that they are entitled and that their kids' problems are due to bad teachers and who blame the teachers and complain.

In my church, we have a Saturday Russian School.
But the school/daycare building is behind the church, and it is very small. Well, we have very active priest and his wife. They are proactive, the priest says, "dear my, unless you start doing something for your church, no one will". It is a community thing. I sell jewelry which I grew out of and donate the proceedings to church, we also have fund-raising events.

I receive lots of letters from schools telling that they have to cut on the budget. I wonder if schools could also attach letters indicating that they wish to have a fundraising event, something a little bit more than selling brownies. Enclosed in the same envelopes.

I believe many parents will respond.

MC - re. $ 20.00 per hour. I spoke to a girl who just got a nanny's job. $ 15.00 for babies, $ 20.00 for older kids. This is the going rate in our area. As to his eyesight - he has extreme far-sightedess and severe astigmatism (different vision on different eye axes) and it is hard to correct. But we are trying. None in either family line has dyslexia, and some people are near-sighted, some are naturally far-sighted, but in general, all of us see very well. So we are dealing with something we can not understand, but we manage...

 

[Tacori E-ring]

And it is true that we do get vacation time in excess of other professions. However, either we do not get paid during those months, meaning we have to ration our pay during our working months; or the school district rations it for us, pays us each month, but keeps the interest accumulated by a district worth of employee salaries banked for several months.

Right, my point is I will be making less working 12 months. I much rather work 10 months a year for 50K. I would be capable of budgeting accordingly. But, teaching is not my calling. I had an opportunity to do what I will do in the school system but that's not the right fit for me. I respect teachers. I was raised by teachers. I just hate whiners.

 

[Kasey3]

And it is true that we do get vacation time in excess of other professions. However, either we do not get paid during those months, meaning we have to ration our pay during our working months; or the school district rations it for us, pays us each month, but keeps the interest accumulated by a district worth of employee salaries banked for several months.

Right, my point is I will be making less working 12 months. I much rather work 10 months a year for 50K. I would be capable of budgeting accordingly. But, teaching is not my calling. I had an opportunity to do what I will do in the school system but that's not the right fit for me. I respect teachers. I was raised by teachers. I just hate whiners.

I did not read the entire thread, but I do want to clear something up that is a misunderstanding-a teacher works for 10 months out of the year-with for the most part 3-4 weeks of vacation during the 10months. The summer is not a paid vacation! Each district handles the pay cycles differently-for example I have the option of taking my salary didvided over a 10 month cycle with 21 pay checks- or over 12 months at 26 pay checks. Either way my yearly salary does not change-I don't get paid any less or any more its just a matter of deciding how to divide my salary.

 

[ksinger]

Just in case anyone is interested, a transcript and audio, of an interview of Diane Ravitch on 2/28/2011. Ravitch is an education historian and former supporter, now vocal critic, of NCLB.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/28/134134735/Op-Ed-Rage-Simmering-Among-American-Teachers

 

[soocool]

I just did the math. Very simply, in our school district:

student days = 180 days in a school year

teacher days = 196 days in a school year (this does not include the days the teachers come in to clean up after the end of the school year and set up for the new school year)

DH works 225 days per year - (260 days Mon-Fri, less 10 holidays and less 25 vacation days) (where I live most people have about 3-4 weeks vacation)


So if teachers put in the extra days to clean up and set up we could round up to 200 working days (4 without compensation)

This means that DH works 25 days per year more than a teacher in a school year. DH works about 10 hours per day, sometimes he eats at his desk, sometimes he takes clients out (2 hour lunches), sometimes he conducts business on the golf course or at a ball game. He has a company car (new one every 3 years).

Teachers lunch time is the same as a student's - 1/2 hour in the school. HS teachers start teaching at 7:30 am classes end at 2:15, clinics go till 3:30 (8hours total) , clubs until 4pm (they are moderators), are at school events in the evenings and weekends. They grade papers at home during their time, answer emails and return calls to parents after school hours (in my experience in dealing with teachers). They will even meet with parents when it is convienient, often after school anywhere from 3-5pm. They are at band, choral practices from 7-10pm, heavily involved with community service with the students after schooll hours, etc.

My conclusion, THEY WORK HARD FOR THEIR MONEY and many are not compensated enough!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Guess my point wasn't clear...