are HPHT diamonds safe and strong?

[ak_diamondquest]

i'm considering buying a beautiful iia type 2ct diamond that has been HPHT treated to h color and is VVS1 clarity. should i be worried about the HPHT process?
thanks!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We have discussed this on here before, and I think if the diamond survives the HPHT process, the color change is permanent and there is nothing really to worry about as long as you are not paying the same price as a totally natural, untreated H VVS1. Just out of curiosity, where did you find one? They seem to be somewhat hard to find.

 

[ak_diamondquest]

thanks for your reply! i'm working with a jeweler - Jerry Taylor owner of Taylor Custom Rings http://www.taylorcustomrings.com/
Yes, the diamond seems to be pretty special. And the price break with the HPHT was a real surprise. Jerry seems to have a lot of knowledge and has also had a lot of beautiful diamond options. I believe this one comes from India.
I'm now waiting for it to come back from GIA certification before getting to see it in person. Cannot wait!

 

[tyty333]

thanks for your reply! i'm working with a jeweler - Jerry Taylor owner of Taylor Custom Rings http://www.taylorcustomrings.com/
Yes, the diamond seems to be pretty special. And the price break with the HPHT was a real surprise. Jerry seems to have a lot of knowledge and has also had a lot of beautiful diamond options. I believe this one comes from India.
I'm now waiting for it to come back from GIA certification before getting to see it in person. Cannot wait!

I looked at their website...do you pay the price listed on the diamond search page because I dont see much of a price break at all.

 

[MollyMalone]

I looked at their website...do you pay the price listed on the diamond search page because I dont see much of a price break at all.

We're you able to figure out a way to filter the site's Search results so you see just the HPHT inventory? That didn't seem to be an option for me & there weren't any HPHT stones in the first page of results within the parameters I plugged in for a random test drive.

 

[ak_diamondquest]

i think you may have to contact jerry directly for diamonds beyond what is listed on the site. he has access to much more.

 

[Dizzie]

You might want to check this thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hpht-diamond.155349/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hpht-diamond.155349/[/URL]

Oldminer and Denverappraisor gave some really good insights there

 

[ak_diamondquest]

thanks so much, but now i feel a bit confused. does it mean this diamond is lab grown?

i think this is it i found it on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-Certified-2-00-Carat-H-VVS1-Oval-Brilliant-Enhanced-Natural-Loose-Diamond-/121868716243?nma=true&si=i2szAeBW8NlpApa%252BuB7lWKMUOys%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

the good news is i'm not trying to buy this as an investment item, but i also don't want it to be made in a lab or look fake.

 

[MollyMalone]

May I ask why you think that eBay oval is the same stone that Taylor Jewelers is having graded by GIA; did Taylor give you the eBay link or tell you they purchased it off eBay?

 

[ak_diamondquest]

Jerry sent me a link on segoma to view the diamond and there was a serial# so when i looked it up i found the ebay link. unsure if it's the same.

 

[gr8leo87]

This reminds me of Bellataire diamonds. What you are buying may be a diamond coming from company called Bellataire. They color treat diamonds with HPHT process.
You should compare the price. I would say if you are paying half of comparable natural diamond price then I think it would be okay. Otherwise it's not worth it. If price is an issue look for diamonds with strong and very strong fluorescence they discount the stones fair bit.
You may not buy it as an investment but I i think nobody wants to buy a diamond that isn't worth bananas after it has crossed those 18 inches of retail counter.

 

[MollyMalone]

Oh dear, I'm hoping that Taylor has a different stone in mind for your e-ring. The eBay oval is disproportionately shallow (42.1% depth) & I'm concerned, based on the eBay pic, that it has a big window, so will be largely "dead' with only the outer edges having the twinkling sparkle you anticipate seeing in a diamond.

Can you share the Segoma link he gave you?

 

[ak_diamondquest]

http://segoma.com/v.php?type=inner&id=TVQE3EI22


yes, my concern is the lack of sparkle too, but the diamond looks beautiful. i actually liked that it was shallow bc i didnt want a ring that sat up high and i'd rather get the face heavy value that bottom heavy.
you think it will just look like a piece of glass on my finger?

 

[tyty333]

http://segoma.com/v.php?type=inner&id=TVQE3EI22


yes, my concern is the lack of sparkle too, but the diamond looks beautiful. i actually liked that it was shallow bc i didnt want a ring that sat up high and i'd rather get the face heavy value that bottom heavy.
you think it will just look like a piece of glass on my finger?

You will seriously be lacking in sparkle/fire. The whole inside area under the table is so shallow all the light is going to leak
right out the bottom. In a normal stone (with the right depth and angles) light bounces around and comes back out the top of the stone.
You're not going to get that with this stone (well, maybe some on the outter edge). That stone is dead, dead, dead in the center.

Have you seen any well cut oval stones? If you want a treated stone, thats fine but make sure it is a well cut treated stone.
Here is what you can get for $6k in an untreated, well cut oval. If you can tell us what your budget is we can see what we
can find you. It will be smaller but you can put it in a halo to give it a bigger effect. Plus it will sparkle unlike that almost
rose cut one you are looking at.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-762829 there are others but my screen is
messed up at the moment so they are hard to pick.

Are you the guy or the girl? If you are the guy, please dont buy that stone without letting your GF see it first.

Edit ...yes to the piece of glass on your finger. I guess I can assume you are the girl.

 

[MollyMalone]

I couldn't quickly find a ring with a similar diamond, but take a look at the hand shot in this etsy listing for a morganite ring; the morganite's window is smaller (relatively speaking) than the window in the diamond depicted in the Segoma link, but the pic gives you some idea of our concerns for you:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/221524174/

 

[MollyMalone]

thanks so much, but now i feel a bit confused. does it mean this diamond is lab grown? * * *

Oops, none of us answered this question. HPHT is not a lab diamond-growing process; for more info, here's a nice overview -- The ABC's of HPHT -- provided by JCK, a jewelers trade magazine and web site:
http://www.jckonline.com/2016/02/19/abcs-hpht

The article is almost 5 years old, however, and I don't know if the retail price difference mentioned near the end of the article (that HPHT stones are generally priced 15% lower than comparable stones of natural, non-fancy color) is still true today.

 

[ak_diamondquest]

thanks for your reply - yes i'm a girl
my boyfriend is super lucky as i am doing all this research! ahah
i'm not a fan of the halo settings and with the design i want to do (similar to this:https://www.pinterest.com/pin/AZV_-ysUUUAthb8o71_1_Tj8DqQPDxSkSSlFJCd_XYRYqKHk5gmnNgA/) i need a diamond that is face heavy. i dont know how i can achieve at least a 3 carat face size without going well into the 20k range.

 

[ak_diamondquest]

@mollymallone - thanks for your help. ugh i guess i'm torn because i thought the iia type diamonds didnt have the sparkle because they didnt have carbon. eek !

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Nooo, HPHT are just like any diamonds other than they have been made higher color.

This diamond is a rose cut diamond, I believe. You will be able to see straight through it to your finger. Did you know it was a rose cut? You need a regular faceted oval diamond, not a rose cut. This will not work out well. Having a smaller well cut diamond will be far more attractive than a big one that has no brilliance at all.

Here is an example of a well cut rose cut diamond. It it set to enhance to stone. But I am betting you can still see through to the finger.

https://www.singlestone.com/single-stone-collection_c2/page15/rebecca_p201/

 

[ChristineRose]

Diamonds are also grown under high-temperature high pressure conditions and these are also sometimes called HPHT diamonds.

Mined diamonds were also created under HPHT conditions, and the treatment sort of breaks down and rearranges the diamond.

To make it even worse, HPHT grown diamonds are often subjected to HPHT treatments to make them whiter. Growing diamonds is much faster if you put nitrogen or boron in the growth chamber which creates a sort of lattice for the carbon. These diamonds are yellow or blue when they come out of the growth chamber. Then they reshape the lattice to make them white.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Nooo, HPHT are just like any diamonds other than they have been made higher color.

This diamond is a rose cut diamond, I believe. You will be able to see straight through it to your finger. Did you know it was a rose cut? You need a regular faceted oval diamond, not a rose cut. This will not work out well. Having a smaller well cut diamond will be far more attractive than a big one that has no brilliance at all.

Here is an example of a well cut rose cut diamond. It it set to enhance to stone. But I am betting you can still see through to the finger.

https://www.singlestone.com/single-stone-collection_c2/page15/rebecca_p201/

Well, in looking at it again, it looks like a rose cut with a huge flat table. I am not sure what they were trying to do. But I will say that it is never wise to compromise cut on any diamond to get more size. Would you rather have a beautiful 2 ct stone or an ugly 3 ct??? A well cut oval is not deep. Ovals have a better spread for the weight than most other diamonds. I looked at your inspiration ring and that stone is nothing at all like the one you are looking at. The stone you are looking at would be a dud set like that.

Please post a new thread with your budget and let people show you nicely cut ovals that fit your budget.

 

[MollyMalone]

@mollymallone - thanks for your help. ugh i guess i'm torn because i thought the iia type diamonds didnt have the sparkle because they didnt have carbon. eek !

That's a reason why I thought it would be useful for you to see the JCK article with the photo of that necklace with the many white, HPHT color enhanced diamonds that are nicely cut and sparkly all around.

The diamond that Taylor Jewelers has proposed is, I'm sorry to say, a very poorly cut stone -- we PSers who are into colored gems see oodles of badly cut, colored gem stones with huge honking windows on eBay. This diamond also lacks symmetry (in more ways than one), and I don't think the cut can be explained as a rose cut wanna-be; had the cutter actually been aiming for a rose cut diamond, there wouldn't be all those hodge-podgey, smaller facets.

* * * with the design i want to do (similar to this:https://www.pinterest.com/pin/AZV_-ysUUUAthb8o71_1_Tj8DqQPDxSkSSlFJCd_XYRYqKHk5gmnNgA/) i need a diamond that is face heavy. i dont know how i can achieve at least a 3 carat face size without going well into the 20k range.

I think, from the Pinterest link, that you'd love to have a ring similar to Blake Lively's oval diamond engagement ring? The unfortunate reality is that a sprightly 2-ct oval is never going to have the same face-up size as its 3-ct big sister. So maybe start a new thread soliciting ideas by by sharing your target budget, your priorities, other ring designs you like?

P.S. I think ChristineRose's comments were meant as an informational aside. At least I'm not seeing anything about "your" stone or in the lab report that suggests it's anything other than as reported: a natural diamond that's been HPHT-treated to change its color

 

[ChristineRose]

Hi Molly.

The OP asked whether the stone was lab-grown, which it doesn't seem to be. Someone else said that HPHT means treated. It can mean either treated or lab-grown or both.

It's pretty hard to end up looking at a lab-grown stone by accident. Treated are much more common.

 

[gr8leo87]

Hi Molly.

The OP asked whether the stone was lab-grown, which it doesn't seem to be. Someone else said that HPHT means treated. It can mean either treated or lab-grown or both.

It's pretty hard to end up looking at a lab-grown stone by accident. Treated are much more common.

I would guess HPHT colour treated stone (natural stone treated for color) would be rarer than HPHT grown diamond, because for a diamond to be HPHT colour treated it has to be type 2A.

 

[ChristineRose]

Gem-quality lab diamonds are just rare, period. People think they should be able to get one for $300 and most makers have dropped out or gone back to making industrial stones. Brown diamonds are not rare (well, not relative to white stones) so there's no problem in picking out the less-included type iia for HPHT and leaving the other types for people who might actually want a brown stone.

 

[gr8leo87]

Gem-quality lab diamonds are just rare, period. People think they should be able to get one for $300 and most makers have dropped out or gone back to making industrial stones. Brown diamonds are not rare (well, not relative to white stones) so there's no problem in picking out the less-included type iia for HPHT and leaving the other types for people who might actually want a brown stone.

I'm sorry - Gem quality lab grown diamonds are abundant - especially in melee sizes. They are not producing bigger sized stones because of the demand and the consumer or the jeweller mostly buys a certified diamond. The melee size in lab grown is abundant (HPHT + CVD).

If you want these place an order with PGD and they'll surely comply.

There are abundant color treated diamonds to irradiated or otherwise to convert them to fancy colors.

But colour treated from tinted white to make them white is pretty rare in my experience. Like I said Bellataire comes to mind they started about more than a decade ago and everyone one was concerened what's gonna happen this and that. The millenials most of them won't even know who Bellataire was.