Are flux healed rubies fragile?

[KLC]

I found a pair of 2ctw ruby earrings online and while looking at the description of the stones I saw that they are flux healed. They are extremely cheap of course but untreated rubies are out of my budget. However, I don't want to buy something that I have to worry about damaging them while cleaning them. Especially since they're set in sterling silver. What are the drawbacks to this treatment other than value?

 

[Avondale]

It's a stable treatment, not like glass filling. Flux healed means the rubies were heated in the presence of flux substance. With corundum they use borax. The borax, when melted due to the high heat, penetrates the existing fractures in the ruby and dissolves the inner walls of those fractures. So the corundum itself melts. And then as it cools down it hardens again. The inner fractures are filled with newly formed corundum. It's not a foreign filler and the fractures are effectively healed - they simply no longer exist. The treatment is detected because the borax leaves residues as it dissolves into the corundum.

It affects the value so greatly because you can take a piece of rough that is basically unusable - so fractured and included that it could never survive faceting, let alone look pretty even if it was faceted successfully - and turn it into an actually very pretty gem.

 

[KLC]

It's a stable treatment, not like glass filling. Flux healed means the rubies were heated in the presence of flux substance. With corundum they use borax. The borax, when melted due to the high heat, penetrates the existing fractures in the ruby and dissolves the inner walls of those fractures. So the corundum itself melts. And then as it cools down it hardens again. The inner fractures are filled with newly formed corundum. It's not a foreign filler and the fractures are effectively healed - they simply no longer exist. The treatment is detected because the borax leaves residues as it dissolves into the corundum.

It affects the value so greatly because you can take a piece of rough that is basically unusable - so fractured and included that it could never survive faceting, let alone look pretty even if it was faceted successfully - and turn it into an actually very pretty gem.

Thank you so much! I think I'll have to order them then. I'll post pictures when they arrive.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

It's a stable treatment, not like glass filling. Flux healed means the rubies were heated in the presence of flux substance. With corundum they use borax. The borax, when melted due to the high heat, penetrates the existing fractures in the ruby and dissolves the inner walls of those fractures. So the corundum itself melts. And then as it cools down it hardens again. The inner fractures are filled with newly formed corundum. It's not a foreign filler and the fractures are effectively healed - they simply no longer exist. The treatment is detected because the borax leaves residues as it dissolves into the corundum.

It affects the value so greatly because you can take a piece of rough that is basically unusable - so fractured and included that it could never survive faceting, let alone look pretty even if it was faceted successfully - and turn it into an actually very pretty gem.

Sounds like a win win

 

[Avondale]

I think I'll have to order them then.

Just make sure that the treatment is represented and disclosed correctly. I've found that it's often confused with lead glass filling and the terms used (flux filled, flux healed - as "flux" is a generic term) don't help the issue at all. I myself was quite confused on the matter initially and couldn't find any clarification even here, had to discover an hour long educational seminar by Gem-A uploaded to youtube during the pandemic to finally understand what it is and how it works.

 

[PrecisionGem]

It affects the value so greatly because you can take a piece of rough that is basically unusable - so fractured and included that it could never survive faceting, let alone look pretty even if it was faceted successfully - and turn it into an actually very pretty gem.

I don't thinkheating with flux will really transform such a stone so dramatically. Very fractured stones are glass filled, heating with flux heals somewhat fingerprint type inclusions but won't take a stone so fractured that it couldn't be faceted and turn it into a gem.

The most popular price guide in the trade, shows Flux heated ruby in Good quality with slight to moderate effect decreasing price over heated alone by 0 to 5% and moderate to extensive healing 10 to 20%.

 

[Avondale]

I don't thinkheating with flux will really transform such a stone so dramatically. Very fractured stones are glass filled, heating with flux heals somewhat fingerprint type inclusions but won't take a stone so fractured that it couldn't be faceted and turn it into a gem.

I will not claim to know more than someone in the trade. What I've learned I did so from a single Gem-A lecture and that's about what they said there. They showed rough before borax treatment and explained, I quote: "This rough material was heavily fractured. So, riddled with fractures, so to speak. And because of these fractures in this state this material is not gem quality because you can't facet it." (7:10 from the video, but I don't know if it's allowed to post a link to it here.)

It could very easily be that I misunderstood what the lecturer meant or didn't quite catch up on some important details because I'm just a hobbyist in this field and my knowledge is very limited. In any case, I'm always happy to read/view more sources of information as the topic is not only highly entertaining but also useful for a consumer.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I just watched that video. The rough they showed before treating, was never again shown after treatment, and I don't think that rough would have significantly improved. The cut stone she did show after treatment was still very heavily included and of a low quality. I think she very much overstates the effect of flux heating. All the treatments known to man will not turn those roughs into pretty gems.
I have had stones before and after, and the improvements were not very dramatic. Also if there are no inclusions that reach the surface, then the flux can not get into the stone, just like oiling an emerald. The oil can only get into inclusions that reach the surface.

 

[Avondale]

I think she very much overstates the effect of flux heating. All the treatments known to man will not turn those roughs into pretty gems.
I have had stones before and after, and the improvements were not very dramatic.

I have a minute now to properly respond. Thank you very much for your insight. It helps me make my mind about that treatment (because I've generally been on the fence) and I believe it will be very helpful to many others as well.

@KLC, given what Gene has added to the basic information I had, I'd definitely check to see what's the actual treatment the rubies you're eyeing received. If they're "extremely cheap", it might be a case of too good to be true. It's always better to be safe.

 

[Karl_K]

Just me but I would rather have a few dollar flux synthetic ruby over a flux healed ruby.
To me they and glass filled rubies have no value over synthetic.

 

[LilAlex]

The most popular price guide in the trade, shows Flux heated ruby in Good quality with slight to moderate effect decreasing price over heated alone by 0 to 5% and moderate to extensive healing 10 to 20%.

That seems inconsistent with market practice and actual pricing. Seems intended to "support" the price of flux-filled rubies. Unless "good quality" is industry parlance for "actually, pretty bad," in which case the value is low no mater what.

 

[PrecisionGem]

That seems inconsistent with market practice and actual pricing. Seems intended to "support" the price of flux-filled rubies. Unless "good quality" is industry parlance for "actually, pretty bad," in which case the value is low no mater what.

I don't think this is true. The publishers of this and other price guides don't sell stones, they sell information to professionals in the trade. We wouldn't buy these very expensive price guides if the information was not very accurate or useful.
The pricing is determined by the organizations attending gem shows and actually checking prices from multiple dealers for stones that are being sold, watching online prices etc. They have been in the business a long time, and wouldn't be if the information they are selling is useless.
I checked against the prices from GemEWizard another guide I buy, and they are quite similar.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

If I'm not mistaken, I thought most heated rubies have flux residues, and ones that are heat only are the minority?

 

[LilAlex]

We wouldn't buy these very expensive price guides if the information was not very accurate or useful.

Good to know.

I don't think there is a consumer on this forum who would accept a mere 10-20% price break over heat-only for "moderate to extensive healing." And even referring to this in the gentle guise of "healing" is super-sus, imo. Like buying a "healed" auto that is actually a salvage title. There are all kinds of coin and stamp pricing guides that report the "value" of an item but bear no relation to what the market will pay.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Good to know.

I don't think there is a consumer on this forum who would accept a mere 10-20% price break over heat-only for "moderate to extensive healing." And even referring to this in the gentle guise of "healing" is super-sus, imo. Like buying a "healed" auto that is actually a salvage title. There are all kinds of coin and stamp pricing guides that report the "value" of an item but bear no relation to what the market will pay.

Keep in mind that the average Pricescope person on the colored stone forum is not at all typical of the average consumer buying a piece of jewelry. The average consumer has no idea that there are heated and non heated stones, much less that there are heated and those heated with flux, nor do they care. They want a pretty piece of jewelry.

 

[LilAlex]

^ True

 

[KLC]

I have a minute now to properly respond. Thank you very much for your insight. It helps me make my mind about that treatment (because I've generally been on the fence) and I believe it will be very helpful to many others as well.

@KLC, given what Gene has added to the basic information I had, I'd definitely check to see what's the actual treatment the rubies you're eyeing received. If they're "extremely cheap", it might be a case of too good to be true. It's always better to be safe.

They are shockingly cheap. And I was mistaken on the ct weight. They're $85 U.S. and 2.72 ct total. I haven't ordered them. I don't really care about the value of them, I just want a pretty stone that I don't have to be super worried about losing or damaging. I have lost so many earrings that I won't spend huge amounts for them anymore.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

They are shockingly cheap. And I was mistaken on the ct weight. They're $85 U.S. and 2.72 ct total. I haven't ordered them. I don't really care about the value of them, I just want a pretty stone that I don't have to be super worried about losing or damaging. I have lost so many earrings that I won't spend huge amounts for them anymore.

They could be $85 of fun then if the stone is really pretty

 

[Avondale]

They are shockingly cheap. And I was mistaken on the ct weight. They're $85 U.S. and 2.72 ct total.

That is, in fact, consistent with prices for glass filled rubies. You can always talk to a jeweler and see what they say about setting them in a simple earring design. If they're dangling from your earlobes you don't really have to worry about accidentally smashing them against a door frame or getting detergent on them which could damage them. As long as they can be set into whatever you want them set in, there's no harm done in buying a highly treated stone for cheap.

I have to say though, if what you're after is a pretty stone that you don't need to worry about and that's the only priority to consider, it might be worth going the synthetics route. Should be even cheaper and you're guaranteed to have beautiful stones.

 

[lilmosun]

They could be $85 of fun then if the stone is really pretty

Agreed and for the price would be surprised if they weren't glass filled. If they are something you want for fun or occasional wear, they might be an inexpensive way to scratch the itch. Just don't put them in an ultrasonic or expose to harsh detergents/chemicals. If you were looking for something inexpensive for long term or every day wear, you may want to consider lab grown.

One other thought is whether the pictures depict the actual rubies you are getting (i.e. not mass produced) and such that you can see the actual color and any visual imperfections the stones may haves.

 

[KLC]

Agreed and for the price would be surprised if they weren't glass filled. If they are something you want for fun or occasional wear, they might be an inexpensive way to scratch the itch. Just don't put them in an ultrasonic or expose to harsh detergents/chemicals. If you were looking for something inexpensive for long term or every day wear, you may want to consider lab grown.

One other thought is whether the pictures depict the actual rubies you are getting (i.e. not mass produced) and such that you can see the actual color and any visual imperfections the stones may haves.

They are mass produced. I found them on JTV. The only reason I haven't ordered them is because they're set in sterling silver, manufactured in China, and it doesn't say whether or not they're nickel free. I don't have good luck with silver earrings. I've only found one pair that didn't cause a severe allergic reaction.

 

[lilmosun]

They are mass produced. I found them on JTV. The only reason I haven't ordered them is because they're set in sterling silver, manufactured in China, and it doesn't say whether or not they're nickel free. I don't have good luck with silver earrings. I've only found one pair that didn't cause a severe allergic reaction.

As I know several elderly women hooked on JTV, here is my experience in terms of CS - you generally get what you pay for. Anything really inexpensive is usually heavily treated and/or lifeless IRL. Some will order multiples in hopes of getting one that looks like they do on TV.

They seem to be upfront about treatments on their web-site itself. So I have no reason to question that unless it was a mistake on their end. Are the rubies from India? If so, that might explain the price as they will likely be more opaque.

On the upside - returns are very easy so there really isn't much risk in ordering.

(In terms of some things that can be mass produced, like sterling pieces, you can get some decent buys).

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

As I know several elderly women hooked on JTV, here is my experience in terms of CS - you generally get what you pay for. Anything really inexpensive is usually heavily treated and/or lifeless IRL. Some will order multiples in hopes of getting one that looks like they do on TV.

Are the rubies from India? If so, they will likely be more opaque.

On the upside - returns are very easy so you really aren't taking that much of a chance.

(In terms of some things that can be mass produced, like sterling pieces, you can get some decent buys).

Im glad we don't have tv like that here
although years ago Russian weddings rings got a huge hammering on the infomercials and also in the woman's mags

 

[KLC]

As I know several elderly women hooked on JTV, here is my experience in terms of CS - you generally get what you pay for. Anything really inexpensive is usually heavily treated and/or lifeless IRL. Some will order multiples in hopes of getting one that looks like they do on TV.

They seem to be upfront about treatments on their web-site itself. So I have no reason to question that unless it was a mistake on their end. Are the rubies from India? If so, that might explain the price as they will likely be more opaque.

On the upside - returns are very easy so there really isn't much risk in ordering.

(In terms of some things that can be mass produced, like sterling pieces, you can get some decent buys).

Kenya

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have lost so many earrings that I won't spend huge amounts for them anymore.

Do you use screw backs or butterfly clips?
Do you swap backs with other earrings?

 

[lilmosun]

Kenya

I am NOT a ruby expert.

I have a beautiful Ruby cabachon from the John Saul Mine in Kenya and Yvonne has a beautiful Kenyan ruby in her shop that I've personally seen and fell in love with (out of budget for me). Both tend to lean more fuschia/pink-red in tone, which I think is common for Kenyan rubies...I love the color but not your traditional red ruby.

I can't find your earrings on the JTV site but when I google 'Kenya Ruby JTV", the rubies definitely look opaque/low quality...and one would assume they use a better example for their listings. For example, the video in this listing:

Red Kenya Ruby Rhodium Over Silver Ring 2.46ctw - EJB117

Enjoy exceptional value and unbeatable prices. Explore this Red Kenya Ruby Rhodium Over Silver Ring 2.46ctw from JTV today.

www.jtv.com

-or- this picture https://5a0388bda0d20.streamlock.net:8443/Product/EJB158-ECU-ALT.jpg

Does your listing have a video?

Again, it doesn't hurt to try as returns are easy but my expectations would not be high at the price point.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have a pair of glass filled at work in the gem room.
I put one in the ultrasonic cleaner with a warm ammonia and detergent solution for about an hour.
I will try to post a photo of the mess.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have a pair of glass filled at work in the gem room.
I put one in the ultrasonic cleaner with a warm ammonia and detergent solution for about an hour.
I will try to post a photo of the mess.

This is cleaner effect..the same happens with a drop of lemon juice.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

This is cleaner effect..the same happens with a drop of lemon juice.

Holy crap!

The first picture was what the stone looks like before it went through the cleaner, right?

It actually looks quite... speckled I suppose, is the word I would use, but still wearable. The one on the bottom is unrecognisable!

 

[KLC]

Do you use screw backs or butterfly clips?
Do you swap backs with other earrings?

Usually saddle back hoops. I tend to sleep in my earrings and studs poke me.