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Appraisers'' List Development

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pricescope

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We are trying to to develop/enhance the list of independent appraisers and 3 weeks ago asked them to answer the questionnaire below.

So far we received 24 replies from about 60+ appraisers listed on Pricescope. The information we''ve got was just published (see e.g. https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers_FL.aspx).

I think that comments from appraisers provided in their replies are quite interesting and give better idea about appraiser''s positions on different subjects.

More improvements are on the way...

In the meantime, we are asking for feed-backs/ideas from both appraisers and consumers. (If you''re an appriser, please do not reply on the questions here but email us.)



  1. Do you sell a competing product at retail? (Yes/No)
  2. If a client brings you an item for an appraisal, can you suggest another item or a vendor for purchasing a similar item?
  3. What are your credentials and professional memberships/associations?
  4. How long have you been in practice?
  5. Do you have E&O insurance?
  6. Do you offer you resume for review? Please provide a link or attach your resume to your reply.
  7. Do you have your fee schedule published? Please provide a link or attach your fee schedule to your reply
  8. Do you charge by item or by time consumed?
  9. Do you charge a percentage?
  10. Have you ever testified in court as a qualified expert in appraising?
  11. What recent continuing education courses have you completed?
  12. Do you have diamond master color graded stones or CZ''s?
  13. What do you use to evaluate (measure, calculate or visualize) diamond light performance?
  14. What cut evaluation tools do you have (e.g. Sarin, Ogi, H&A scope, Ideal-Scope/Firescope, etc)
  15. What do you reveal in your full reports about diamond cut and proportions?
  16. What is your area of expertise in old cut detecting reproductions, country of origin, treatments, etc.
  17. Do you have any unique policies? (e.g. Guarantee of Diamond Grading Accuracy)
  18. Do you have any unique services (e.g. mobile lab)
  19. List of your publications (please provide a link or attachment)
  20. Do you have a website? Please provide a link.
  21. What is your turn around time?
  22. Security:
    1. secure premises,
    2. vault/safe
    3. other insurances (site liability, theft insurance)
  23. Do you allow clients to sit in on appraisal sessions for their items?
  24. Do you accept diamonds/jewelry directly from vendors?
  25. Do you offer clients to see those diamonds/jewelry at your location
  26. Do you grade for stores or other companies that might make a conflict of interest? If this happens, do you disclose it to your clients?
Optionally, please specify what you believe is important for consumers to know about appraising process and your service in particular.

 

strmrdr

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Awesome!
Thank you
 

DoubleB

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Thom Underwood in San Diego is EXCELLENT! I have used him, and will use him again.
 

Regular Guy

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Leonid,

This is indeed a great set of resources you've provided, and I have to think it will help many.

I took the time to scan through them all, and saw the pattern I had anticipated, with some positive surprises. However, given the relatively small list of nationally available experts, and despite the already established importance of light performance, relatively few provide evidence of a focus on this.

Consistent with education and resources in NY, this is more evident there. Also, an interesting note...I see there exists such a thing as a master diamond set from Lazare Kaplan, which more than one documents is in use. I have to wonder if such a resource might not be like the resource Garry has talked about developing.

Still, and although such a resource's use could be consistent with the "pristine" culture associated with what an independent appraiser does -- if we consider that, they are well trained, wish to put that training into use, and have the basic purpose of getting their customer what they want -- which, if they're shopping, is to do the best they can with respect to performance for a relative price point -- then I think some movement to opening up the nature of what a proper independent appraiser can do could help. So, for example, figuring out some way to show examples of excellence in diamond cutting, represented by, for example, branded options the appraiser could only show and could not sell -- would be one way of getting at this.




Date: 8/21/2005 9:29:08 AM
Author: Feydakin
Great list.. But you left out one question..

Do you buy, sell, or provide gemstones, mountings, or jewelry services..

Steve, I'm sympathetic with your additional question but I think the term "independent appraiser," as it's conventionally used, excludes the options you suggest. Now, if Naja, or an association of appraisers, could get with crafting an agreement, that would allow the relationship between a customer and store based appraiser, excluding the customer's ability to buy in their store, for say -- 90 days -- this could allow a store/appraiser to replicate more readily what a standard independent appraiser now does. Also, despite the short term thinking/concern this would drive away the larger profit center, I think there are ways to understand how the store's total business could increase as a result, in consideration of referrals and such, and that this idea could work. (edited to add...Frankly, given the buyer's real desire to compare their choice against the universe of options otherwise available, the typical internet based shopping environment where no such comparison is readily available, and the opportunity a more conventional B&M/appraiser can provide to meet this need, if such an agreement were to become recognized, I might prefer to recommend any shopper this way first...particularly in light of the upcoming change to certs, where GIA will be including proportion data...and where meanwhile, anyway, 80+ % of the appraisers noted here can't supply that info).

Finally, if such an association, like DeBeers, got out the message that a consult with such a person or agent could profitably be made more downstream in the appraisal process, buyers could understand that what might be done now in 2 visits (seeing the unmounted stone, and then seeing it for formal documentation after mounted), could instead be done in 3 visits, where the first visit may be with a "best effort" stone brought in, which might reduce the number of total visits to 2 if the appraiser and shopper agree together they've optimized, but where the default view is that they're just finger painting at that initial point of visit number 1, and it will be seen as the job for the appraiser to consult with the shopper on how to optimize that final purchase.

Cause...despite conventions going in another direction, I think that sort of assistance, based on both what the appraiser's training is, and what the customer really wants, will have the opportunity to create more satisfaction for both the customer and appraiser.

Just some additional thoughts.

Thanks very much again, a significant contribution, Leonid (and apologies my wild hairs above).

Regards,
 

mepearl53

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I agree with Steve here also. I have seen on many occasions over the years of appraisers also having friends in the diamond business.
 

valeria101

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I would welcome questions about handling items bought online. For example, if they accept jewelry items shipped for review for and by request of a local customer, by a remote seller and under what circumstances (regarding the concerned seller and buyer).

Could be too much to ask...

This looks like your question #24, but that one does not specify any circumstances for the seller or buyer and it could be that special services of this nature are limited to a set of seller the appraisers know of.
 

pricescope

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Thank you for comments, guys. We are developing a system where appraisers will be able to sign ii and update their information and also add more positions to describe their practice... Some of your suggestions will be incorporated into the final solution.


Consistent with education and resources in NY, this is more evident there. Also, an interesting note...I see there exists such a thing as a master diamond set from Lazare Kaplan, which more than one documents is in use. I have to wonder if such a resource might not be like the resource Garry has talked about developing.
It is a different master set - for color grading. Sergey and garry are talking about MSS for developing cut grading system.
 

denverappraiser

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GIA grades diamonds for color master stones as a completely separate service from their other kinds of grading reports. They have considerably narrower parameters for each color as well as restrictions on clarity, fluorescence and other issues that are important in the color grading process. Buying and selling of GIA graded master stones is an obscure marketplace that is pretty much limited to the jewelry trade and LK is one of the big traders in them.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

oldminer

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Several of the master diamonds in our sets were purchased years ago from LK when they had a specialist working on making these sets. Many AGS members during those years bought their Master Diamond grading sets via the LK route, but they were all GIA graded anyway. LK just knew how to pick properly as they had a special back door relationship with those at the GIA who approved Master Color Grading Diamonds. These stones got special attention and were not graded in the regular lab as if they were going to be resold.
 

Rae~

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I know this is probably a big ask, but just to at least plant the seed (if it''s not already growing)...
9.gif


I would love it if this list of independant appraisers extended outside of North America, too.... as an Aussie living overseas, going home only occasionally and usually for quite short trips, it would really help to have contact details for reliable independant appraisers.... I know I can look them up in the phone book, but after seeing the professionalism of most of the PS-affiliated suppliers/businesses, I would much rather go through one I found through here, than some random.....

Maybe this request is a bit premature, but anyway... just to let you know that I am sure there would be quite a few people in Australia who would make good use of such a resource...
1.gif
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 8/22/2005 5:32:11 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
....and the pro''s and con''s of using a remote well equipped vs local appraiser?
I''d support this one...though I suspect the conditions under which you''d find value in using an appraiser from away will depend, in part, on the info you already have on the docs that came with your diamond. For example, if AGS, maybe local best. Likewise, if GIA after 1/06, when at least proportion data is included, maybe this will be less important too.... because sitting across from your appraiser will have its inherent advantages, right?

Regarding the LK color grading set...I was just thinking the potential was there to get a "twofer....," that is, you''re getting your diamond color graded, and then also, subtly, you have the opportunity to demonstrate a well cut diamond, to boot. Not sure if anyone actually does expect this opportunity to be realized, and so few of these are mentioned/probably in use (from Lazare). The idea, then, of having a branded option (WF, Infinity, etc.) to show the client (acquired by the appraiser directly or borrowed, and on hand only for demo purposes), if appropriate probing were done to determine any level of interest, would be to more explicitly have the opportunity to demonstrate a well cut stone.

BTW, this latter solution could be viewed by the client as still a set-up, if they did not already know the ropes. It may be that, regardless of demo options, there will be the desire to go and compare the purchased option to a store carrying HOF or Tiffanys, which is frequently possible. But...the demo option is a possible opportunity for the appraiser to help circumvent this need.

Regards,
 

bar01

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Lets not forget the colored folks -

I suggest a question similar to number 13 on your list but for colored stones -

How do you evaluate (measure, calculate or visualize) colored stones?
 

oldminer

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One of the things we have suggested elsewhere is to have your master diamond set graded for light performance by one of the various Light Behavior labs....I won''t mention any names here, but there are more than one. Then the appraiser not only has a color master set, but may well have a decent master setr for Light Behavior and performance comparison testing. This would cost a whole lot less than any high tech installation and still be a good tool.
 

WinkHPD

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I appreciate the independant appraiser questions. In the past I and others have had "problems" with "independant" appraisers who also "happened" to have a "similar" stone in the office for analysis and then ended up loosing the sale to the "independant" appraiser''s "friend" who had sent in the "similar" stone that just happened to be there.

I know that this is reprehensible and unethical, but it has and continues to happen occassionally, so it is good to know who does and who does not also sell as they will never be quite "independant" enough in my mind to be sending stones to for confirmation of quality. This of course is if I do not already know and respect them. Some will never cross the line, others will.

Dave Atlas does sell or at least did, but he also runs the appraisal business as a totally separate entity I believe. I know that on the one occassion when I sent someone to him he bent over backwards to assist my clients and they were VERY pleased with his professionalism. Thom Underwood has also done some great work for me.

I have not had occassion to use Denver appraiser directly, but one of my clients has and was most impressed.

There are some great appraisers out there, and it is great to know that Leonid has gone to so much trouble to make a list of who is available and what their standards are, it makes life so much easier for all of us!

Wink
 

StevL

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Long time since I''ve been here. This thread caught my attention...

What makes you think that the appraiser(s) will answer the questioner honestly, or should I say politically correct?
In regards to questions one and two they shouldn''t be on the questioner. We know what the replies will say. You need to question hundreds of consumers that have used their services and see what the consumers tell you in their unbiased opinion.

Many appraisers tell consumers not to have a diamond appraised buy the seller (conflict of interest), but you want the appraiser to tell how they operate and do business (sounds like a comflict to me).

I’m with Winks first paragraph! Been there done that...
 

oldminer

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I think questions 1 and 2 definitely belong on the questionarire. An appraiser has choices as to how to respond. They can leave the reply blank, they can tell the truth or they can misrepresent themselves. Most or many appraisers are honest people and will tell the truth. A few may choose to lie or exaggerate. That's why Leonid has asked for consumer feedback if they have any problem with any appraiser. We need to address the questions and we need a way to get to the truth. Simply not asking will get us nowhere......or we will stay where we are now, may be a better way to put it.

Firms who go to great lengths to tell the truth about what they do often are at a competitive disadvantage with firms that lie, cheat and steal. I often look at just how much business I have lost to major labs who produce both grading reports and/or appraisal reports with unrealistic and wrong results. Do I see any of their owners being sued, paying huge fines, or going to jail. NO. The only defense against this is to let the truth be told and eventually enough consumers will be educated enough to reject phony reports from labs which are known to be bogus.

The same is possible among appraisers. Those who are able to provide extraordinary levels of service often look at much weaker, but more financially successful appraisers and wonder how these guys marketed themselves so well even when they weren't all that special. Making people play fair is not always a negative. I don't see anything wrong with questions. Choosing to answer those you want to respond to is a personal choice and is not automatically to be construed as having something to hide. Each practitioner is an individual and each should repond based on their own situation and expertise. Not responding at all seems unreasonable.
 

StevL

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In all due respect; every reply that I saw so far has the appraiser listed they don't sell retail. Maybe the wording in itself is misleading.



Are you saying that in every single instance everyone that has replied is telling the entire truth? Not one time has anyone that replied sold nothing but their appraisal service? They never have recommended another stone or another supplier?

Do you think this will be true once more questioners are completed?

I still think I would use a consumer poll/questioner to obtain more accurate results. The end user has nothing to gain by their answers.

Just for the record I have never had any problem with oldminer doing any appriasal. I have only good things to say about he and his services.
 

oldminer

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I always say we don''t sell retail. In my mind this means we don''t put any effort into competing with retail sellers who have a product to offer. We sell services. If a consumer gets into a difficult spot and needs a plain mounting and/or setting work, we may agree to assist them, but I make every effort to get them to use their original source or one of over a hundred nearby retailers in my local jewelry district. We probably don''t sell over 10 mountings or set more than 25 diamonds for consumers in a year''s time..... It is a "service" when we agree to do it, which we feel fosters good faith in the jewelry business overall. The profit motive is not the major thought process, but the ultimate happiniess and satisfaction of the consumer with the entire deal; purchase AND appraisal.

Like SteveL says, we don''t have problems with him or with anyone else I can think of over this way of doing our business. There are others capable of acting this way, too. Appraisers who fill in this questionaire should be honest as one lie leads to another and another and another. Eventually, you''ll get caught and it will damage your credibility. If you are not "Independent", then don''t say you are. If you occasionally sell diamonds to consumers, then just say you do....You can qualify it by saying how often, but don''t get caught up in a lie. It isn''t worth your reputation. Being listed is secondary in importance to telling the truth.
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 8/25/2005 12:21:23 PM
Author: StevL

I’m with Winks first paragraph! Been there done that...

You were on the top of my mind when I said it. I hope you are doing well, nice to see you here again!

Wink
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 8/25/2005 1:42:42 PM
Author: oldminer
If you occasionally sell diamonds to consumers, then just say you do....You can qualify it by saying how often, but don''t get caught up in a lie. It isn''t worth your reputation. Being listed is secondary in importance to telling the truth.
And that ladies and gentlemen, is why Oldminer is so well respected in the trade. He actually met with my clients on a Saturday when that was the only day they could get to his office. Service above and beyond in my opinion as he normally does NOT work Saturdays. That kind of service FOR SOMEONE ELSE''S CLIENT is rare and is truly appreciated.

Let me say though that it is not as rare as you might think in this wonderful industry of jewelry. Yes there are the bad apples that get the press, but there are a LOT of quietly great apples in this barrel!

Wink
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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My experiance with apprasers is that they know where the line is.
I see no reason to rule out appraisers who also have sales aspects to their business.

I think the beter way to appraise the appraisers is by adding a link to forum discussions or Forum searches or something smart that Leonid can scheme up.

I also see no reason why there should not be a rate this appraiser option with a tick the box ranking etc.
This might all be on the same page, and could be there even if the appraiser is too lazy to fill the form. (which i find amazing given the opporunity that Pricescope has provided them)
 

blitz

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"In all due respect; every reply that I saw so far has the appraiser listed they don''t sell retail. Maybe the wording in itself is misleading."

I interpreted the question to ask do I sell jewelry or jewelry related goods e.g. mounting, diamond/gemstone, etc..

I have never bought or sold for a client. If asked for a recommendation, I do refer to a store that is a client.
3 weeks ago, I referred my neighbor to an internet diamond seller (yes, found on pricescope) for a diamond purchase.
At no time when a client has consulted with me, to verify a diamond have I every said, "I know where you can get it cheaper."

I would like to see the internet provider ask me or an associate what their customer thought of the buying experience with them, and ask us for feed back on receiving a diamond and would there be anything they could do to make the next time more efficient for their customer and me the gemologist/appraiser.
Respectfully,
 

Richard Sherwood

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When I was a retailer, I thought all appraisers should be shot.

Now that I''m an appraiser, I invest heavily in bulletproof vests.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 8/25/2005 11:16:57 PM
Author: blitz
''In all due respect; every reply that I saw so far has the appraiser listed they don''t sell retail. Maybe the wording in itself is misleading.''

I interpreted the question to ask do I sell jewelry or jewelry related goods e.g. mounting, diamond/gemstone, etc..

I have never bought or sold for a client. If asked for a recommendation, I do refer to a store that is a client.
3 weeks ago, I referred my neighbor to an internet diamond seller (yes, found on pricescope) for a diamond purchase.
At no time when a client has consulted with me, to verify a diamond have I every said, ''I know where you can get it cheaper.''

I would like to see the internet provider ask me or an associate what their customer thought of the buying experience with them, and ask us for feed back on receiving a diamond and would there be anything they could do to make the next time more efficient for their customer and me the gemologist/appraiser.
Respectfully,
Blitz I think many more appraisers would fill out the form if that question was not there. I do not think appraisers should never sell - they just should not compromise and take advantage of the business of the vendors who have worked to find a customer
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 8/26/2005 12:56:22 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)



Date: 8/25/2005 11:16:57 PM
Author: blitz
'In all due respect; every reply that I saw so far has the appraiser listed they don't sell retail. Maybe the wording in itself is misleading.'

I interpreted the question to ask do I sell jewelry or jewelry related goods e.g. mounting, diamond/gemstone, etc..

I have never bought or sold for a client. If asked for a recommendation, I do refer to a store that is a client.
3 weeks ago, I referred my neighbor to an internet diamond seller (yes, found on pricescope) for a diamond purchase.
At no time when a client has consulted with me, to verify a diamond have I every said, 'I know where you can get it cheaper.'

I would like to see the internet provider ask me or an associate what their customer thought of the buying experience with them, and ask us for feed back on receiving a diamond and would there be anything they could do to make the next time more efficient for their customer and me the gemologist/appraiser.
Respectfully,
Blitz I think many more appraisers would fill out the form if that question was not there. I do not think appraisers should never sell - they just should not compromise and take advantage of the business of the vendors who have worked to find a customer
Two points:

1) An appraiser should not accept the job to appraise, if they have the option of bringing out another diamond for their client to consider they have for sale, as an alternate to the one brought in for appraising. Too much slippery slope. In my first attempts to find an appraiser last year, turning to the yellow pages, I called a fellow calling himself an appraiser, telling him my intent, and he did let me know upfront that he could appraise, but would want the opportunity also to sell to me an option he made available for sale, as selling diamonds was his primary line of business. I knew from that point forward I wouldn't find his services helpful for what I was looking for.

2) Appraising by agreement could make some customizing work. No one is jumping on my idea, inferred in other industries like pharmaceuticals and doctors partake in, where I suggest an appraiser could represent as examples of options available, by way of both teaching, and showing examples of actual other options available for sale, branded options to their clients. With respect to the valid point Garry makes, should an appraiser choose to generally make such branded options available for viewing, there could be an agreement in place for a particular transaction, where a vendor sends their diamonds to an appraiser as a "prior to sale arrangement" (denverappraiser makes fun of this arrangement in concept anyway, while agreeing to go along with the game), where the client pays nothing in advance of the viewing....and the nature of the agreement between vendor/ appraiser/ and client is that, in this circumstance, the branded options could not be shown. I would recommend such an agreement be an option. Alternately, the client would generally be able to pass on the offer for seeing the diamond for free, pay for it, and then take advantage of seeing the example options, should the appraiser have these options available for viewing.

With respect to such agreements...similarly, in the real estate industry, buyers agents exist, too. Never mind that the agent still makes his wage based on the sales price of the house, and so it is logically in the agent's best interest to have that price as high as possible.....these sorts of agreements do, I think, effect the actor's behavior in the direction of the intent of the agreement. We do the best we can.

Regards,
 

denverappraiser

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Perhaps what is called for is some clarity about what is meant by the term ‘independent’. We don’t all mean the same thing by this but it appears in the headline with very little explanation.

Does it mean that we don’t sell diamonds at retail?
Does it mean that we don’t sell diamonds at all?
Are we permitted to sell jewelry, gemstones or non-appraisal services at retail, wholesale or both?
Can we sell ANYTHING but appraisal/lab services? How about books, loupes and cleaning supplies for example?
Does it mean that we don’t recommend others who do any of these things, even when directly asked and even when it clearly benefits the client to do so?
Can we ethically buy from the public?
Are we allowed to have a second job or operate a second business doing any of these things under a different name or with a different employer? What about our employees?
Does it mean that we don’t work for dealers or that we restrict what type of work is done for dealers?
Does it mean that we aren’t a participant in the transaction at hand?
None of these except the last one are deal killers for an appraiser as long as they are upfront about what they are offering but people are inclined to make some assumptions based on the word ‘independent’ in the headline and the tutorial about the answers to these questions that may or may not be accurate for each appraiser and not everyone will make the same assumptions.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 8/26/2005 12:06:14 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Does it mean that we aren’t a participant in the transaction at hand?



None of these except the last one are deal killers for an appraiser as long as they are upfront about what they are offering...

...just an interested bystander here, but it seems like, since Neil has raised the question, we''re in the land of what the meaning if "is," is. Because unless you splain what you mean by that qualifying statement above, I''m not sure how that helps to understand. I think you may be trying to say the appraiser isn''t a hidden participant in the transaction, wherein they receive some hidden profit from the vendor to accomplish the sale. Because otherwise, I think the very definition of an appraiser is one who is very much a participant in the transaction. The buyer brings the item to you, and because of your participation in the transaction, where you make a circle with your index finger and thumb, and say it''s OK, the buyer then completes the transaction. Seems like you can''t be more active as a participant than that!

Garry''s earlier proposition was..."My experience with appraisers is that they know where the line is...." Seems like to say more than that on the point should only be clarifying. Forgive me for any thickness.

Regards,
 

denverappraiser

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"Does it mean that we aren’t a participant in the transaction at hand?"

What I meant by that is that the appraiser can't be either the buyer or the seller of the item being appraised because this would clearly prevent them from being 'independent', at least for that particular transaction. This should fall outside of even the broadest definiton of the term.

I would certainly not describe as independent any examination and report where there is a kickback involved from either side or from some 3rd part (like the sellers supplier) based on either the transaction or on results of the appraisal. Personally, I don't think these should even be called appraisals but that's not the point I was getting at.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
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