Appraisal of hearts and arrows

[nicknomo]

I bought a Hearts and Arrows diamond, and now I am getting it appraised. However, i appears that most appraisers do not grade hearts and arrows in any respect...

There seems to be a 5-10% price difference between H&A and non H&A cuts. My question is how should I handle the situation in regards to the H&A quality of this diamond. If for some chance the diamond needs to be replaced, I don''t want the insurance company to try and stiff me. The insurance we are looking at gives them the option to pay out or replace it. Obviously, I don''t wan''t it replaced with a non H&A if it were to be lost or stolen.

Even though the appraiser has no way of grading Hearts and Arrows, should I get him to put down that it is Hearts and Arrows on the description?

I take it there are quite a lot of H&A owners here. How did you approach this, considering it is not on the AGS cert?

 

[msbennie]

Hmmm..didn't realize that appraisers do not consider a H&A diamond in their value of a diamond. I'm getting my H&A also appraised on Saturday, however my AGS cert specifies that it is a H&A diamond...

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I would. Have him put something in the comments section along the lines of:
"Diamond identified to be of Hearts & Arrows precision optical symmetry by Document such-&-such."

Then ask him to be sure and assign an additional premium that reflects the higher cost of such a stone.

Otherwise the insurance company is only obligated to replace your diamond with what is on the appraisal.

 

[Regular Guy]

Richard,

Do you know if it's critical that the comments "Hearts and Arrows" get included specifically in the comments section of the appraisal? For example, if the appraiser allows that a photocopy of another document be included in the appraisal (as for example, msbennie indicates that their AGS cert does document this), is the diamond owner covered? In my case, my non-ideal diamond has no cut grading whatsoever documented, and no comments as to grade are noted. However, both the sarin report, which includes the comments of it being AGS2, and also, and HCA report, showing it to be a .9 HCA FIC, are included. Will these things matter, should a replacement be necessary, in the case of a loss?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

If additional documentation is included in the appraisal, and the appraised value reflects the cut standard of the diamond, then you're covered.

 

[Regular Guy]

Rich,

Thanks much! Nicknomo, thanks for asking.

 

[Rhino]

Actually *most* appraisers do not report features such as optical symmetry. It is *best* if actual photo's of the diamonds H&A pattern be included in the appraisal because should there ever be a problem the insurance company will replace what is described and photographed in that appraisal.

 

[Brian Knox]

Hi Msbennie,

"...I'm getting my H&A also appraised on Saturday, however my AGS cert specifies that it is a H&A diamond..."

Please tell me about the notation on the AGS report.

I have not seen or heard of this.

 

[msbennie]

In the lower left hand of the AGS Certificate, under Comments, it says the following:

"H&A AGSL xxxxxxxxx (cert #)" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.

The certificate is dated March 03, 2004

 

[msbennie]

I posted my previous response to Brian's message without reading the latter comments...so, I guess this is not a certification that I have a H&A diamond. However, I would think that AGS would not print this comment on their certificate without verifying it. But then again, maybe not since it's just some letters. However, as a consumer, it was my thought that this was verification that I had a "H&A" diamond. Further, my sales receipt says H&A AGS0 Ideal.....

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 7/16/2004 7:44:58 PM msbennie wrote:

In the lower left hand of the AGS Certificate, under Comments, it says the following:

'H&A AGSL xxxxxxxxx (cert #)' has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.

The certificate is dated March 03, 2004----------------

msbennie
when you send in a stone to ags for certification you can have anything inscribe on the girdle (for a fee)another words you can have them inscribe H&A even on fancy cuts,ags dosen't have a H&A grading system .

 

[WinkHPD]

I do a lot of insurance replacement work. Trust me, if it is a Hearts and Arrows cut diamond, it needs to be on the report. If the appraiser is not accustomed to doing this or says it is not important, then maybe you should be looking for another appraiser. A good appraiser is surely aware of the importance of Hearts and Arrows by now. If not, then they are not keeping up with events in the trade. If they are not keeping up, then they are not doing their job!

Wink

 

[mdx]

I like Rhino’s suggestion that an image of the H&A pattern is included on the appraisal by the appraiser, who also verifies it.

Johan

 

[Lynn B]

----------------
On 7/16/2004 8:04:38 PM Wink wrote:

...Trust me, if it is a Hearts and Arrows cut diamond, it needs to be on the report. If the appraiser is not accustomed to doing this or says it is not important, then maybe you should be looking for another appraiser. A good appraiser is surely aware of the importance of Hearts and Arrows by now. If not, then they are not keeping up with events in the trade. If they are not keeping up, then they are not doing their job!

Wink----------------

Very interesting thread.

I recently had my stone appraised and the report does not mention H & A. However, the fact that it is a "laser inscribed H & A" is added onto my AGS cert (as mentioned above). Is that good enough? Any input or recommendations?

Thanks,
Lynn

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Lynn, it would be nice if you had another piece of written supporting documentation, such as a sales receipt stating H&A, or a piece of photographic documentation, such as H&A photos.

Just insert it with the appraisal and you'll be okay. If not, the AGS comment might work, even though it's not an endorsement on AGS's part.

Doesn't that seem strange to you guys? Here a major lab is allowing their reputation to be used in endorsing a characteristic which they don't bother verifying.

You'd think they'd make damn sure a stone was H&A before they put that notation under "comments", wouldn't you? Talk about ducking responsibility and creating confusion...

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 7/16/2004 11:31:10 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:





Doesn't that seem strange to you guys? Here a major lab is allowing their reputation to be used in endorsing a characteristic which they don't bother verifying.

You'd think they'd make damn sure a stone was H&A before they put that notation under 'comments', wouldn't you? Talk about ducking responsibility and creating confusion...

----------------

Yes or if they are going to put it there they would at least make it perfectly clear that the comments are not a verification or endorsement. I admit I was confused the first time I saw it.

 

[WinkHPD]

Lynn,

Don't just put copies in your lock box, make copies and give them to your agent to put with your insurance documentation. What is on the documentation that your agent has will have a LOT more weight than introducing information years from now when something needs to be done. Have the information added to your appraisal document and provide that changed docum,ent along with the support information to your agent.

Just my opinion of course, but I have done literally millions of dollars worth of replacements over the last twenty years. What your agent has, you get. What you supply later you may or may not get, depending on your company and your adjuster and your replacement specialist.

Wink

 

[Lynn B]

Oh Wink,

GREAT advice. I don't think I would have thought of that!

Thank you very much.

Lynn

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
So when you do an appraisal, do you note H & A in your documentation?
-----------

Sure. I feel anything which effects the value of the diamond should be noted on the appraisal.

I include Hearts & Arrows photos, along with a notation on the appraisal indicating the precision H&A optical symmetry.

 

[BigVig]

I bought a diamond from GOG who provide me with their own appraisal which includes H&A photos as well as a Brilliancescope photo set. The appraiser I''m using doensn''t do H&A verification, so is it good enough to ask my appraiser to include the pictures that GOG sent me and add a note in his appraisal that the diamond is H&A and refer to the photos? Will the appraiser do that (verify H&A based solely on the pictures from GOG) and more importantly, will that be good enough for the insurance company to recognize my diamond as H&A ?

 

[denverappraiser]

If the diamond is a GOG signature series, or whatever it is that they’re calling their house brand or one of the specialty companies that they represent, you should include this in the appraisal. The results of the BS report should be included. The H&A, IS and ASET photos should be included. The trade up program should be mentioned if you have one. Everything that you took into consideration when you were buying the stone and that you feel will be important if they need to do a replacement. All of this becomes part of the definition of the property. One of the keys to good coverage with a replacement type policy is to submit a good appraisal. Their obligation in the case of a replacement is to make you whole again but they can only do this if you tell them what you consider to be important.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[WinkHPD]

There you have it from a man who makes his living doing it right!

Wink

P.S. There is never a crowd where he goes! (I love your sigfile!)

 

[Maxine]

Date: 7/17/2004 10:28:37 PM
Author: Wink
Lynn,

Don''t just put copies in your lock box, make copies and give them to your agent to put with your insurance documentation. What is on the documentation that your agent has will have a LOT more weight than introducing information years from now when something needs to be done. Have the information added to your appraisal document and provide that changed docum,ent along with the support information to your agent.

Just my opinion of course, but I have done literally millions of dollars worth of replacements over the last twenty years. What your agent has, you get. What you supply later you may or may not get, depending on your company and your adjuster and your replacement specialist.

Wink

Good point, Wink!!
I TOLD my agent about my cool pics, but your saying to get them ther NOW!!???
I keep meaning to do that......so they might not accept them "aftee the fact" if something happens??

 

[WinkHPD]

Some may, some may not, why find out later?

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Thanks for the kind words Wink.

Maxine,

The insurance company has several reasons for asking you to get an appraisal. High on the list are that it provides independent witness that the item exists, that it’s in your possession and that someone else (the appraiser) is willing to take legal responsibility for some of the assumed facts associated with the policy. It also puts a cap on their maximum liability and gives them a basis to set their rates. These are all good reasons. There are more, but restricting their options about what will be an acceptable replacement is not among them. This should be one of the objectives of the policyholder but far too often, consumers don’t see this as one of the areas worth considering when they shop for insurance and/or appraisal services. The minimum documentation that will be acceptable to the company is usually both cheaper and involves less effort. Often it’s free and included in the packing materials. This can be a pretty attractive offer and it’s only at claims time that you discover that ‘free’ appraisals can be quite expensive indeed. Not surprisingly, neither the selling jeweler or the insurance agent are anxious to explain this.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[claimsjeff]

Neil/Wink- you are in the wrong line of work...you have figured out insurance companies when so called insurance professionals don''t know what they are talking about. I agree with your comments above.

Jeff Mills
Jewelers Mutual Insurance Co.