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Appraisal help for a special sapphire

AmaltheaMoon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
4
Hello, all!

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I finally created an account because I need your help.

I've acquired a special gemstone for my e-ring. It's a 5.49 ct, unheated, lavender sapphire whose pavilion was precision cut to an ideal symmetry by Jerry Newman. It measures 10.79 x 9.20 x 7.02 mm and is from Sri Lanka. I have a Prestige Report from AGL that verifies these details.

I need to get this gem appraised, and my concern is ensuring that it appraises at a high enough value that I could replace it with a decidedly lavender/purple, unheated, precision-cut sapphire with a faceup size of 10 mm or larger. If the worst happened and I needed to replace this stone, I would be stuck hunting for a very large, rare sapphire that was precision cut by a master lapidary (and paying a lot for it if I could find it), or more likely, I would have to buy a native-cut sapphire that was deep enough and large enough to recut (carat weight = $$$). It would be awful enough if anything happened to this gem. I do not want to be stuck with an insurance payout that is insufficient to purchase a replacement that I would be happy with.

I'm looking for an appraiser who will take into consideration all of the things that make my gem special (precision cut, color, faceup size, etc.) and expensive to replace. I don't want to go with someone who is just going to evaluate it as an unheated 5.49 ct sapphire. I want someone who will take everything into account, including the cut. I'm in Indiana. I'm guessing I won't find anyone here, but I thought I would mention that, on the off chance. Maybe there's someone in the Chicago area? Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

img_0496_2.jpg
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
Dave Atlas
http://datlas.com/

Love that colour! :love: I know Dave's website seems geared towards diamonds but he also knows his CS stuff and is very professional.
 

AmaltheaMoon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
4
David just wrote me back a wonderful and detailed reply to my inquiry. I'm impressed. Great recommendation!
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,701
Do the insurance companies just pay out on what they consider an inflated appraisal? I thought the insurance company finds you a replacement. I have had insurance companies call me on several occasions to help them find a stone, or cut a stone as a replacement.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
PrecisionGem|1455645552|3991647 said:
Do the insurance companies just pay out on what they consider an inflated appraisal? I thought the insurance company finds you a replacement. I have had insurance companies call me on several occasions to help them find a stone, or cut a stone as a replacement.
Gene,
It depends on the policy but no, they do not pay out the inflated appraisal. In cases where the stone is pretty much irreplaceable, it is best to have the appraisal be extremely detailed (precision cut, colour rating/quality, untreated, origin, etc) and have a replacement/cash out option. If they cannot find a comparable replacement, they will payout what they feel is a reasonable dollar amount based on the detailed or lack of detailed appraisal, hence the appraisal is key here. This sums out why I feel that consumers get the shaft when it comes to replacing one of a kind CS - we just want the original stone because trying to replace a "like" CS might take years.
 

attyl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
10
Chrone (or other experts), I don't mean to threadjack, but I'm having a similar problem, and hopefully the answer to this question will benefit not just me and the OP, but anyone who later reads this post. I'm drafting a more detailed query for later:

How do you specify "precision cut" to PS standards in an appraisal (for insurance purposes), in a legally binding way? For example, I've seen several posts warning people about the cut quality of Pristine Gems, and yet the lapidary/owner touts his gems as "precision cut"; but I doubt that would qualify as "like kind" to a Jerry Newman stone.

Gene, are you allowed to disclose which companies have come to you for replacement? They're definitely who I'd want to underwrite my policy.

ETA: AmaltheaMoon, that stone is stunningly gorgeous.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
877
Aren't there two issues here.........getting the appraisal you want, and two: insuring the item with a company that agree's to that insurance valuation?.
Last time I did this I was comfortable with the numbers, but I was told that the item could easily have been 'valued' at twice as much in the not too distant past. Insurance companies have put an end to overvalued appraisals and ask for valid substantiation before setting insurance costs/coverage and certainly before replacing any item---just as Chrono said.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
Just like "native" cutting, there are many different levels of precision cutting. There is top notch precision cutting all the way down to precision cutting that has issues (bowties, huge tilt windows, thick girdles, etc). Precision cutting not only means perfect meet points, perfect symmetry and all that jazz, but also includes the lapidary's ability to select the best design to bring out the colour and performance of the stone. This is why I believe that the quality of the cut should be detailed in the appraisal. The description of "precision cutting" alone is too vague if one is particular about the cut quality.
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
Chrone (or other experts), I don't mean to threadjack, but I'm having a similar problem, and hopefully the answer to this question will benefit not just me and the OP, but anyone who later reads this post. I'm drafting a more detailed query for later:

How do you specify "precision cut" to PS standards in an appraisal (for insurance purposes), in a legally binding way? For example, I've seen several posts warning people about the cut quality of Pristine Gems, and yet the lapidary/owner touts his gems as "precision cut"; but I doubt that would qualify as "like kind" to a Jerry Newman stone.

Gene, are you allowed to disclose which companies have come to you for replacement? They're definitely who I'd want to underwrite my policy.

Hi @Gene,

I am not sure if your are talking about our business, Pristine Gemstones, or another business named Pristine Gems in your post. However we certainly do cut our gemstones "precision cut", so I feel that I should address your question as well.

First, precision cut, in my definition, is at minimum cutting the facets in the pavillion of the stone at their correct refractive indexes to maximize brilliance, prevent "windows", etc. I am in agreement with @chrono in that the overall picture must be taken into account as well, ie color dispersion, etc. Therefore, sometimes my definition of precision cut might be in conflict with what is best suited for the stone in question.

I would say that about 80% of our gemstones listed online have been precision cut. The reason 100% aren't is because, again, every gemstone is different and other considerations often need to be made. Other considerations are inclusions, zoning, color depth, gemstone value, the optical properties of the gemstones (a good example is tourmaline pleochroism), etc. Finally, I honestly haven't had the opportunity to recut absolutely everything. We carry 1000's of gemstones. I generally recut before I list stones however. If I have overlooked something, I am more than happy to revisit the cutting work for a customer.

I hope that answers your question about whether or not our gemstones are precision cut?

Also, I have to say that I have not been active on PS; however, my wife pointed out the importance of getting on here to clarify things as they may relate to us. We have both seen lots of reference to reviews about possible cutting quality issues with our stones, but we only found one actual review from a member who has bought one of our stones and had an issue with our cuts (there was a chip that we would have overlooked and we would have been happy to repair, although that wasn't mentioned). so we wonder about confusion with another vendor. I am always open to discussing my cutting decisions with anyone or fixing issues that I may have missed (shipping covered by us of course). Andrea does ensure that I inspect every stone a second time before we ship it; however, mistakes can happen.

We have indeed seen comments on PS on some of our photos regarding the cut from time to time, but those are comments on images, not stones as seen in reality. Gemstones are extremely difficult to capture accurately in photos at the best of times, although, trust me, we spend hours upon hours trying to capture our gemstones accurately. Add to that differences in individual's computer monitors, etc. Please keep in mind, that we are always willing to provide additional videos and verbal descriptions to help clarify details about our stones listed online. We don't want to waste anyone's time sending them a stone that we think they wouldn't be happy with.

Finally, I think if you go to our website and visit the link to Better Business Reviews on us, or go to either of our Etsy shops, PristineGemstones or PristineJewelry, you will see a lot of satisfied customers who have indeed made purchases with us. An important point to make is that those reviews are managed on 3rd party platforms; the Better Business Bureau and Etsy.

You and any readers can feel comfortable reaching out to us for videos and any further verbal descriptions to help you try to discern more details about any of the stones that we are offering. We do our best to treat our customers as we would like to be treated, to be transparent, and to fix any errors that we as humans sometimes make. There is no reason not to do so as far as we are concerned.
 

elle_71125

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
4,312
Hi @Gene,

I am not sure if your are talking about our business, Pristine Gemstones, or another business named Pristine Gems in your post. However we certainly do cut our gemstones "precision cut", so I feel that I should address your question as well.

First, precision cut, in my definition, is at minimum cutting the facets in the pavillion of the stone at their correct refractive indexes to maximize brilliance, prevent "windows", etc. I am in agreement with @chrono in that the overall picture must be taken into account as well, ie color dispersion, etc. Therefore, sometimes my definition of precision cut might be in conflict with what is best suited for the stone in question.

I would say that about 80% of our gemstones listed online have been precision cut. The reason 100% aren't is because, again, every gemstone is different and other considerations often need to be made. Other considerations are inclusions, zoning, color depth, gemstone value, the optical properties of the gemstones (a good example is tourmaline pleochroism), etc. Finally, I honestly haven't had the opportunity to recut absolutely everything. We carry 1000's of gemstones. I generally recut before I list stones however. If I have overlooked something, I am more than happy to revisit the cutting work for a customer.

I hope that answers your question about whether or not our gemstones are precision cut?

Also, I have to say that I have not been active on PS; however, my wife pointed out the importance of getting on here to clarify things as they may relate to us. We have both seen lots of reference to reviews about possible cutting quality issues with our stones, but we only found one actual review from a member who has bought one of our stones and had an issue with our cuts (there was a chip that we would have overlooked and we would have been happy to repair, although that wasn't mentioned). so we wonder about confusion with another vendor. I am always open to discussing my cutting decisions with anyone or fixing issues that I may have missed (shipping covered by us of course). Andrea does ensure that I inspect every stone a second time before we ship it; however, mistakes can happen.

We have indeed seen comments on PS on some of our photos regarding the cut from time to time, but those are comments on images, not stones as seen in reality. Gemstones are extremely difficult to capture accurately in photos at the best of times, although, trust me, we spend hours upon hours trying to capture our gemstones accurately. Add to that differences in individual's computer monitors, etc. Please keep in mind, that we are always willing to provide additional videos and verbal descriptions to help clarify details about our stones listed online. We don't want to waste anyone's time sending them a stone that we think they wouldn't be happy with.

Finally, I think if you go to our website and visit the link to Better Business Reviews on us, or go to either of our Etsy shops, PristineGemstones or PristineJewelry, you will see a lot of satisfied customers who have indeed made purchases with us. An important point to make is that those reviews are managed on 3rd party platforms; the Better Business Bureau and Etsy.

You and any readers can feel comfortable reaching out to us for videos and any further verbal descriptions to help you try to discern more details about any of the stones that we are offering. We do our best to treat our customers as we would like to be treated, to be transparent, and to fix any errors that we as humans sometimes make. There is no reason not to do so as far as we are concerned.
I can only speak for myself, but I find it frustrating that you keep digging out old topics. After a year of this post being inactive, it doesn't have to be pushed back to the top. It is no longer relevant. I'm not trying to be mean so please don't take it that way.

I commend you for trying to better your business and keep customer service a priority. I would recommend you doing that with topics/posts that are currently active. ;)2
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
Thank you @elle_71125

This is Andrea, in Rogerio's account now.

I understand what you are saying, and thank you for your compliment. I don't fully understand PriceScope and how these threads work (as clearly you are seeing all of my posts for some reason! Which I would not expect since I didn't think you were part of them!)

All that I know was that it was brought to my attention there have been a number of inaccurate comments made here over the years about us regarding gemstones, gem cutting, appraisals, even duties and taxes, etc.

We should have been on here all along to catch such items, and to provide clarification. Unfortunately, we were busy operating our business and caring for family.

So, I started to look for "mixed reviews" on us that were so often mentioned but not cited. In my search, I found inaccurate information that I was only trying to correct. I certainly didn't want to bring such information to anyone's attention because it was inaccurate, I only wanted to correct what was misleading or incorrect.

I will heed your input as I clearly still don't know how this system operates and you do. (I just joined yesterday. Rogerio opened up an account a number of years ago, but was never active on it).

Thank you!
Andrea
 

pristine

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
40
I can only speak for myself, but I find it frustrating that you keep digging out old topics. After a year of this post being inactive, it doesn't have to be pushed back to the top. It is no longer relevant. I'm not trying to be mean so please don't take it that way.

I commend you for trying to better your business and keep customer service a priority. I would recommend you doing that with topics/posts that are currently active. ;)2
ps. Was it really "inactive" as I could still find it easily enough? Is there another place to ask questions, have discussions such as this so that I am not digging out old topics?
 

elle_71125

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
4,312
ps. Was it really "inactive" as I could still find it easily enough? Is there another place to ask questions, have discussions such as this so that I am not digging out old topics?
You're finding posts because you are searching for them. They are not inactive in a sense that you can't find them. They are just irrelevant. You can go back and look at them but it doesn't make sense to post on something a year old in this context.

Any post that you comment on will automatically be brought back to the front page, where everyone can see it (not just people in that particular thread). Think of it like Facebook or instagram (if you're on those formats). The new stuff is right there on the top (think of that like page 1-2 in this forum). After it's been on there a while, other posts take precedence. This moves the older posts down the line (page 3+ in this forum).

I think it's great that you guys focused on your business and family. That's how you grow as a company and as individuals. I don't want it to look like you're spamming the forum (and that's kind of how it's coming across). That's why I suggested posting on current topics. Now that you guys are actively watching this forum, you'll be ready to respond to any current threads relating to your company (or any other topic that interests you).

I hope that helps explain it better. :D
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
12,337
I agree completely with elle - you are in fact annoyingly spamming the forum whether you mean to or not. In my opinion, you are likely to cause even more PSers to question your business. I would suggest that if you want to make a good solid impression on PSers, that you read threads, read the policies carefully, and offer your thoughts as allowed for a Trade member to do. Your insights into the gem market, observations you have that might help a forum member, and answers to questions about material, durability, etc, when asked. You do not make a good impression at all by dredging up multiple old, resolved or dormant threads just to repeatedly defend your past actions - its moot. Better to start anew and be helpful than rehash old threads in an argumentative way...
 

AndreaVW

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
17
You're finding posts because you are searching for them. They are not inactive in a sense that you can't find them. They are just irrelevant. You can go back and look at them but it doesn't make sense to post on something a year old in this context.

Any post that you comment on will automatically be brought back to the front page, where everyone can see it (not just people in that particular thread). Think of it like Facebook or instagram (if you're on those formats). The new stuff is right there on the top (think of that like page 1-2 in this forum). After it's been on there a while, other posts take precedence. This moves the older posts down the line (page 3+ in this forum).

I think it's great that you guys focused on your business and family. That's how you grow as a company and as individuals. I don't want it to look like you're spamming the forum (and that's kind of how it's coming across). That's why I suggested posting on current topics. Now that you guys are actively watching this forum, you'll be ready to respond to any current threads relating to your company (or any other topic that interests you).

I hope that helps explain it better. :D
Thank you very much @elle_71125 .... yes, I get it. How embarrassing! I will survive the embarrassment! and now I am prepared to clarify any information pertaining to us in the future. Have a good evening!
 

AndreaVW

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
17
I agree completely with elle - you are in fact annoyingly spamming the forum whether you mean to or not. In my opinion, you are likely to cause even more PSers to question your business. I would suggest that if you want to make a good solid impression on PSers, that you read threads, read the policies carefully, and offer your thoughts as allowed for a Trade member to do. Your insights into the gem market, observations you have that might help a forum member, and answers to questions about material, durability, etc, when asked. You do not make a good impression at all by dredging up multiple old, resolved or dormant threads just to repeatedly defend your past actions - its moot. Better to start anew and be helpful than rehash old threads in an argumentative way...
Thank you @minousbijoux Yes, Elle explained how this works. Just to clarify, I wasn't defending anything. I was clarifying information that was incorrect. Hence, I felt compelled to clarify. I will be sure to do so in the future on current posts if necessary, and will be happy to provide knowledge and information where appropriate. Have a good night!!
 

suzanne2

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
1,009
This was a civil and articulate discussion. I too noticed the dragging up of old threads and wondered where this was heading. Kudos to minousbijoux and elle for gently and tactfully bringing it to the attention of Precision Gem. And even more kudos to Precision Gem for gracefully acknowleging the misunderstanding.
My initial impression of Precision Gem was on the fence but this exchange has reassured me. I've never bought from them but will keep an eye out for the future.
Now I will fade back into lurking mode lol. (I just like to give credit where credit's due).
Suzanne
 
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