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Appearance of rubellite vs. ruby?

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Dee*Jay

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Can someone please give me a general comparison of what a rubellite vs. a ruby would look like? I'm considering an oval shaped red colored center stone for a ring with step cut traps on the sides and the closest I've come to what I'm looking for was an Oscar Hayman ruby/diamond piece to the tune of $50+K...

Any info will be much appreciated. (Next I will ask about tsavorite vs. emerald, but one project at a time LOL!).
 

pricescope

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Dee, because both come in different shades and saturation of red the most important difference especially for a ring is durability, well and price...
May i suggest to look at Malaia garnet, Richard has some nice ones, here is only one but i know he has more, if i can find one picture he sent me i will post.
 

innerkitten

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Well one thing I have heard is that it''s hard to find really good rubellite these days. Also I think ruby does better in indoor light. There may be some old posts on the subject if you do a search.
 

Richard M.

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Date: 3/3/2007 10:39:13 PM
Author:Dee*Jay
Can someone please give me a general comparison of what a rubellite vs. a ruby would look like?
Despite the name rubellite is almost never truly red like ruby. Overtones of orange or purple modify the primary hue and while its colors can be magnificent, they''re not stop-light ruby-red. The only true red natural stone with durability similar to ruby is red spinel, especially stones from Namya in Burma/Myanmar and Mahenge, Tanzania. It is rising in popularity and so are its prices, but fine untreated stones can still be found for far less than comparable rubies.

There''s one type of garnet, chrome pyrope (also called "anthill garnet") that has a strong ruby-red color but good stones are seldom more than 2 carats and usually smaller. It has a tendency to "black out" in larger sizes. There are many types of garnet with excellent red color but they''re not really like ruby. Red is a very sought-after and rare color in gems and fine red rubies easily bring the price you mentioned.

Good luck with your search.

Richard M.
 

pricescope

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Date: 3/4/2007 2:15:57 AM
Author: Richard M.


Date: 3/3/2007 10:39:13 PM
Author:Dee*Jay
Can someone please give me a general comparison of what a rubellite vs. a ruby would look like?
There's one type of garnet, chrome pyrope (also called 'anthill garnet') that has a strong ruby-red color but good stones are seldom more than 2 carats and usually smaller. It has a tendency to 'black out' in larger sizes. Good luck with your search.

Richard M.
Thank you Richard for you expertise as always, excuse my ignorance please, but do you think this "black out" issue can be corrected with re-cutting?
 

riogems

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I think the black out issue has more to do with the properties of the gemstone? Chrome Diopside blacks out as it gets bigger as well. I think it is due to over-saturation of the color? I have noticed this with the pyrope garnet too.
 

pricescope

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Adam, would it be useful to cut them just shallower in bigger sizes? You will loose yelld but will gain in color?
It's not a statement, it's a question, because i have seen the most beautiful cromediopside which looked like a black piece of plastic in most lighting conditions, which was a shame. You know, .... Venus definitely weights less then the rock of marble he was cut out of...
 

Richard M.

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Date: 3/4/2007 11:56:22 AM
Author: Pricescope
Thank you Richard for you expertise as always, excuse my ignorance please, but do you think this ''black out'' issue can be corrected with re-cutting?
I used to, and when I found a source for large chrome pyrope I spent a lot of time testing the idea. I cut stones with many different pavilion and crown angles and tried several designs for that very purpose. Some worked better than others but in general I found that larger CPs stay dark. It''s because of the light-absorbing nature of the material. Red garnets and many other gem materials suffer from the "too dark" problem. I have some spinels with heavenly blue color by transmitted light but after cutting they look like lumps of coal.

So-called "rhodolite" garnet caused a big stir when found in North Carolina about 100 years ago (the stuff had been known for thousands of years in Asia but the American discoverers thought it was a new species; it wasn''t). That''s because it combines two red garnet species, almandine and pyrope, and for some as yet unexplained reason together they sometimes result in a lighter, bright gem named after the Greek words (rhodo=rose-colored; lithos=stone).

I personally think fine violetish rhodolite as in this image is every bit as attractive and almost identical to the best rubellite. It''s much less expensive, has purer color because it''s single-refractive and has the same hardness with many fewer inclusions. But there''s a rubellite mystique and who am I to quibble with the conventional wisdom?

Richard M.

Royal Rhodolite copy3.jpg
 

Richard M.

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Now compare the rhodolite to the colors in the parcel of top rubellite rough. Bear in mind that slight differences in color are noted in both types of gems. Also bear in mind that much of the rhodolite offered for sale doesn't come close to the color of the stone I posted above.

Richard M.

Rubellite Ruff.jpg
 

pricescope

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The one in the middle is Red isn''t it? What if you cut them like a rose diamond cut - flat, and make a DBTY bezel necklace Richard? You would save a lot of rough that way too i guess.
 

Dee*Jay

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Thank you all for the info and for the spinel and garnet suggestions. I will have to educate myself a bit more on the red stones before I go any further with this project. The jeweler with the Hayman piece insinuated that he''d be willing to negotiate a bit on price so the ruby is not completely out of the question, but it would still be quite a chunk of change I''m sure so I would like to know what my options are.
 

Kaleigh

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I have seen Oscar Hayman pieces. They are the creme de la creme. We used to sell the line in the store I worked for. Talk about major eye candy. Anyway, I know it''s a huge chunck of change DeeJay. Keep doing your homework, I bet you can find an amazing stone online. And you''ll save a bundle. Good luck!!
 

Richard M.

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Date: 3/4/2007 5:27:35 PM
Author: Pricescope
The one in the middle is Red isn''t it? What if you cut them like a rose diamond cut - flat, and make a DBTY bezel necklace Richard? You would save a lot of rough that way too i guess.
Yes, that stone is about as close to pure red as tourmaline gets. You never know exactly what the color will be, though, until you''re finished cutting. I''m still mulling whether to buy this parcel -- very pricey!

Rose cuts for dark red garnets were very popular in days gone by. The problem is that unless you use something reflective behind them, like foil, they have no brilliance. The function of a pavilion is to serve as a mirror.

Please don''t assume there are no brilliant garnets! Many of the red-violet and red-orange hues can cut very bright stones as do many other garnet colors.

Richard M.
 

riogems

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We''ve tried cutting them more shallow. The color can become more apparent, but they can look like a little piece of glass that way with no sparkle. Maybe someone will be able to invent a good cut for this type of material.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Richard, I, for one, will be happy when you get your website operating! Do you mostly cut garnets or do you also cut sapphires? I do like your rhodolite garnet a lot!

(Dee Jay, I''d probably go with red spinel unless I wanted a smaller ruby).
 

Richard M.

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Date: 3/8/2007 8:49:55 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Richard, I, for one, will be happy when you get your website operating! Do you mostly cut garnets or do you also cut sapphires? I do like your rhodolite garnet a lot!
Thanks so much for your comments! I''m cracking the whip daily at my Webmaster, hoping to speed things up. We''ve had an unexpected delay caused by having to change to a new webhost because of unacceptable server delays with the first. The site will be ready soon and it will offer items for a wide range of interests.

I love garnets and specialize in them to an extent but the site will have a bit of everything including heated and unheated sapphires, tourmalines, spinels, quartzes like amethyst and citrine, opals and many other items -- even designer cabochons of really fine materials. My emphasis is on fine cutting in all categories. I''ll be pleased to have your comments on the site when it''s f-i-n-a-ll-y ready.

Richard M.
 
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