Anyone heard of this NYC lab???

[mufiin_top]

Anyone heard of this lab???

http://gldiamond.com/

"Gemological Laboratory for Diamonds"

It's in the diamond district in NYC which is where I visited a few weeks ago. Now I am back in MI and am debating doing a sale by mail.

The vendor in NYC that I was considering buying diamonds from apparently gets their own stuff outside the normal channels I guess, whatever that means, and it's all certified by GLD. The stones they showed me are very brilliant and fiery, not enhanced (tho they also sell enhanced stones), and are about half the price of what I see elsewhere. And they have a really good ebay reputation selling VERY pricey stuff and are BBB members. They are a tiny hole in the wall family operation and seem quite nice (as opposed to some other vendors I met in the diamond district)/.

I'd like to add that according to ebay feedback several buyers do get a gia gemologist to appraise their rocks after the purchase and they all seem very happy.


Why are their prices so low? They said their markup is only 2-3% and I believe them based on what I saw.

And what should I do if I make a deposit and they send me a diamond? Should I send it to a lab or taKE TO A gia gemologist or what? I can always return it within 14 days.

Am I in the wrong place to ask for unbiased opinions on where to get a diamond?

Honestly my head is spinning after seeing the idealscope and realizing the complexities of getting diamonds, adding to the conflicts and rumors about debeers. I am debating looking for a sapphire or spinel some more.

 

[yssie]

Mufiin!! Glad things are working out for you

If it's too good to be true, it generally is...If you do decide to buy a diamond from them, their sample certificate is missing those critical crown/pavilion angles, so definitely take it to an appraiser who can run a sarin and get you an IS image (or buy your own IS!). You want that info and those pictures, not just the words "it's beautiful, great deal!" from a GG.



Good luck with it

 

[mufiin_top]

yssie,

I edited this post to say that I now realize what an IS image is....do most gg's have one? what if my husband and I go back to NYC (we have a great friend to stay with there) after I buy a IS and just find my rock in person?

I think I am going to try these guys in the NYC diamond district out because the diamonds they showed me in person were very pretty to my untrained eye and that is what matters: I don't want to pay for more diamond than I can appreciate. I know zales quality when I see it and these were a bit nicer...f color si2 1.6 ct round is 5800 is a deal to me!

( I'd better not spend too much time on this forum LOL)


we will see if things work out as far as the ring goes
I went back and reread your post....honestly I had to abandon that thread because I stirred up too much drama as a newcomer and got a little overwhelmed but I appreciated your suggestions. My husband's family is far more conservative than the dozens of other families I know about who have a westerner in the pile. My FIL is a retired brigadier and I am an only child from california with hippie parents.

Obviously you guys don't get the whole story just my rant...it was a mistake to post that on a forum I ended up needing LOL.

Thanks

 

[kenny]

Date: 12/31/2009 12:20:28 PM
Author: mufiin_top
... the diamonds they showed me in person were very pretty to my untrained eye and that is what matters:

But what if some day you learn more and find out you bought a poorly-cut diamond?
Ignorance may not be bliss forever.

Oh, and with retail diamonds in NYC you are not going to get something for nothing, regardless of the story they tell you.
Chances are those diamonds are not a steal; they are worth their price, or less.
People do not survive selling diamonds for less than they are worth.

The reason you should insist on a GIA or an AGS report is to be sure of the grades, which supports the price.

 

[mufiin_top]

hi kenny,

this is not a retail business. In fact they only sell online only...and claim to give near wholesale prices. They have a tiny booth that is not customer friendly and has no display case. I believe they cut their own rough and get it certified by their own gemologist. I would have to get my own GIA or AGS report during the trial period after which I buy the diamond. And of course I have to ask the gg what the WHOLESALE value is for a diamond like that, which I know is less than half the retail value.

I don''t intend to pay retail for a diamond. I see no reason to if I am going to this much trouble as it is...

Thanks for your advice

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/31/2009 3:15:06 PM
Author: mufiin_top
hi kenny,


this is not a retail business. In fact they only sell online only...and claim to give near wholesale prices. They have a tiny booth that is not customer friendly and has no display case. I believe they cut their own rough and get it certified by their own gemologist. I would have to get my own GIA or AGS report during the trial period after which I buy the diamond. And of course I have to ask the gg what the WHOLESALE value is for a diamond like that, which I know is less than half the retail value.


I don't intend to pay retail for a diamond. I see no reason to if I am going to this much trouble as it is...


Thanks for your advice

Muffin,

You are treading on thin ice here.

For starters, if they have a booth and they’re selling to consumers, they’re a retailer, no matter what the sign out front says or how sloppy their décor is. That’s the DEFINITION of a retailer. If they’re cutting stones in the US, they’re paying more than their competition who mostly cut in India and probably paying extra for the rough as well. That’s ok, and I certainly am a fan of supporting US workers, but this claim is not evidence of a bargain. Actually, it's evidence to the contrary (unless we're talking about some very expensive stones and then the rules change a bit because the cost of labor is less critical in the overall deal). Their 'store' occupies some of the highest rent real estate on the planet, they are burdened by one of the highest tax rates in the US, and they are competing for workers in one of the most expensive marketplaces for labor. None of these things suggest this as a place to look for low low prices.

The fact that they are asking you to rely on the word of an unknown 3rd party for critical information is not a good sign.

The savings associated with avoiding lab services are nominal. Here's the GIA fee schedule. If you get it graded by GIA (as opposed to a GIA trained gemologist which is a completely different thing), and GIA disagrees with their grading, what happens? Are you entitled to a refund? Will they cover the GIA fees? Why not? Aren’t they willing to bet on the grading accuracy of their gemologist, especially since that’s exactly what they’re asking YOU to do?

What if there’s something else about the stone, particularly the cutting, that you discover is unsatisfactory?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/31/2009 3:15:06 PM
Author: mufiin_top
hi kenny,

this is not a retail business. In fact they only sell online only...and claim to give near wholesale prices. They have a tiny booth that is not customer friendly and has no display case. I believe they cut their own rough and get it certified by their own gemologist. I would have to get my own GIA or AGS report during the trial period after which I buy the diamond. And of course I have to ask the gg what the WHOLESALE value is for a diamond like that, which I know is less than half the retail value.

I don''t intend to pay retail for a diamond. I see no reason to if I am going to this much trouble as it is...

Thanks for your advice

all B.S.

 

[kenny]

Date: 12/31/2009 3:15:06 PM
Author: mufiin_top
hi kenny,


this is not a retail business. In fact they only sell online only...and claim to give near wholesale prices. They have a tiny booth that is not customer friendly and has no display case. I believe they cut their own rough and get it certified by their own gemologist. I would have to get my own GIA or AGS report during the trial period after which I buy the diamond. And of course I have to ask the gg what the WHOLESALE value is for a diamond like that, which I know is less than half the retail value.


I don''t intend to pay retail for a diamond. I see no reason to if I am going to this much trouble as it is...


Thanks for your advice

Wake up.
You are being lied to.

 

[yssie]

Date: 12/31/2009 6:10:25 PM
Author: kenny

Wake up.
You are being lied to.

Yup.



A diamond of those stats, if it's actually those stats, should retail for some 40% AGAIN. You're not getting a good deal, you're going through a lot of trouble to get duped.

And the fact of the matter is, unless you're someone famous and they can use your purchase for publicity, they have nothing to gain from giving you a "good deal" because you're a nice person - but they have a lot to gain by selling you junk and hoping you don't find out.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Dear MT--I did not read your other thread in entirety, but am sensible to your situation.

So far your diamond hunt seems to be fraught with much uncertainty--given your other story, do you really wish for this purchase to be a huge disappointment accompanied by unnecessary angst/drama? There are many notable retailers that you do not need to persue ones who do not seem worthy of your money.

How can we better help you find the diamond of your dreams?

cheers--Sharon

 

[kenny]

Oh, wait a minute.
Aren't you the one people called out as a troll over at hangout?

On this thread

Yeah, this thread IS too far over the top to be for real.
Sorry I took you seriously.
You got me.

Hmm. Bye.

 

[mufiin_top]

hi neil,

I appreciate your thoughts. I think this vendor gets their cutting done outside the us but I don''t know for sure. Also, the diamond district is an excellect place to operate for some businesses who sell only online because then the sales tax is eliminated...and NYC is a hub for importing as I understand it. The gem trade is huge there and anything I request can literally be found right on one street. So, my vendor, when making a custom piece for me, has the access to some of the industry''s best in everything.

As for the diamond, well honestly the more I think about it the less I even want one. At least with colored gems it is more about personal preference and not matheatics quite as much. In addition, I emailed a vendor who contacted me about diamonds that claims they contribute to a charity for conflicts in Africa and politely asked them a few questions about their charity and they promptly stopped replying to my emails after this. This is one of the primary vendors recommended on PS so I am just getting tired looking for a diamond. I am somewhat familiar with the conflicts around this trade and for this reason might also avoid burmese spinel.

 

[mufiin_top]

I really don''t see what the risk is in getting the diamond and having it independently certified by gia.

 

[mufiin_top]

hi sharon,

I have no worries. I can always buy the diamond and reutrn it if it isn''t certified the way I had hoped. Thanks

 

[mufiin_top]

Um Kenny, You are more than welcome to INGORE me. And while you are at it, go look up what a troll actually is and stop talking as if you just learned what the internet is.

You can be sure I'll ignore you in the future.


Bye

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 1/1/2010 10:09:18 PM
Author: mufiin_top
hi neil,


I appreciate your thoughts. I think this vendor gets their cutting done outside the us but I don''t know for sure. Also, the diamond district is an excellect place to operate for some businesses who sell only online because then the sales tax is eliminated...and NYC is a hub for importing as I understand it. The gem trade is huge there and anything I request can literally be found right on one street. So, my vendor, when making a custom piece for me, has the access to some of the industry''s best in everything.


As for the diamond, well honestly the more I think about it the less I even want one. At least with colored gems it is more about personal preference and not matheatics quite as much. In addition, I emailed a vendor who contacted me about diamonds that claims they contribute to a charity for conflicts in Africa and politely asked them a few questions about their charity and they promptly stopped replying to my emails after this. This is one of the primary vendors recommended on PS so I am just getting tired looking for a diamond. I am somewhat familiar with the conflicts around this trade and for this reason might also avoid burmese spinel.

Hi Muffin,

I’m well aware of what 47th street looks like and how the businesses there operate. A vendor is welcome to live wherever they like and they can and should set up their business where it’s convenient for their customers but there is ZERO advantage to being in the diamond district over any other location for an online company in terms of prices, access to quality product, access to quality of services, etc. There is something to be said for shopping near home but the sales pitch that there’s a financial savings because there’s a lot of jewelers jammed into a small area is simply a false perception, despite the fact that this pitch is used by nearly every booth and store there.

The risk associated with buying a stone and then getting a GIA exam on it over buying a stone that has already been examined is in the fees charged by GIA if you reject it, the possibility that the return will be difficult, and the time and distraction required to deal with it. How important these risks are depends on the terms of the deal and how likely you think it is that the GIA lab will report something you find to be unsatisfactory.

The reason most guys decide to buy a diamond at all is usually because SHE wants/expects one as well as a certain amount of pressure from the likes of parents of both of you. If this isn''t the case in your situation, I would be inclined to agree with you that there are many other beautiful options available.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[mufiin_top]

Neil,

Once again, your input is greatly appreciated. I am not as of yet familiar with the GIA certification process, nor that there are additional fees related to not liking a diamond (?). But I will definitely follow up on that before I consider getting a diamond not already certified.

Yes, and I am looking intensively for a colored stone but the more I think about diamonds the more I want one LOL

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 12/30/2009 10:59:44 PM
Author:mufiin_top
Anyone heard of this lab???


http://gldiamond.com/


'Gemological Laboratory for Diamonds'


It's in the diamond district in NYC which is where I visited a few weeks ago. Now I am back in MI and am debating doing a sale by mail.


The vendor in NYC that I was considering buying diamonds from apparently gets their own stuff outside the normal channels I guess, whatever that means, and it's all certified by GLD. The stones they showed me are very brilliant and fiery, not enhanced (tho they also sell enhanced stones), and are about half the price of what I see elsewhere. And they have a really good ebay reputation selling VERY pricey stuff and are BBB members. They are a tiny hole in the wall family operation and seem quite nice (as opposed to some other vendors I met in the diamond district)/.


I'd like to add that according to ebay feedback several buyers do get a gia gemologist to appraise their rocks after the purchase and they all seem very happy.



Why are their prices so low? They said their markup is only 2-3% and I believe them based on what I saw.


And what should I do if I make a deposit and they send me a diamond? Should I send it to a lab or taKE TO A gia gemologist or what? I can always return it within 14 days.


Am I in the wrong place to ask for unbiased opinions on where to get a diamond?


Honestly my head is spinning after seeing the idealscope and realizing the complexities of getting diamonds, adding to the conflicts and rumors about debeers. I am debating looking for a sapphire or spinel some more.

Morning:
I am in NYC and I do a lot of business in diamonds on 47st at the wholesale level. Typically, when I have seen diamonds that are not graded with the major labs: GIA, AGS, EGL, IGI, it's because the diamonds are clarity enhanced. The major labs will not grade glass filled diamonds. GIA has a grading lab in NYC on the corner of 47 street which is very efficient, I've had stones back in 5-7 days. The only excuse in not taking a stone you just cut there is you are hiding something. I would be EXTREMELY skeptical of someone who went to a small lab in NYC. Why? Because there's a good chance they are trying to hide something. Most of the honest traders here do things by the book: major lab, established supply chain, etc. Diamonds are a very normalized business, there are not places to buy diamonds 'outside the normal channels'. I would find it very unlikely that they cut their own stones in NYC, very very very very very unlikely. Most of what goes through the dealers in New York is already polished and memo'd (loaned) to the vendors on the street, with grading reports already.

How would someone stay in business with only a 2-3% markup? I know everyone wants to get a diamond at 'wholesale', but that is the first indication of a scam. In jewelry, you get what you pay for.

There are plenty of honest dealers on 47st in NYC with known grading labs, I would strongly suggest you go to one of those.

--Joshua

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 1/2/2010 1:14:26 PM
Author: mufiin_top
Neil,


Once again, your input is greatly appreciated. I am not as of yet familiar with the GIA certification process, nor that there are additional fees related to not liking a diamond (?). But I will definitely follow up on that before I consider getting a diamond not already certified.


Yes, and I am looking intensively for a colored stone but the more I think about diamonds the more I want one LOL

GIA’s fees are the same whether you like their opinions or not and no matter who pays the bill. If you like it and go through with the deal, these fees would be built into the price if the dealer paid them or just paid directly by you. Either way you end up paying for it, which is entirely fair by the way. If you don’t buy it’s different. If a dealer gets a stone graded in advance but you don’t buy it, there’s no cost (to you) … If you get it graded and return the stone for whatever reason, you get stuck for the GIA bill, even in a '100% refund' situation.

GIA’s fees are the same whether you like their opinions or not. The difference is if you like it and go through with the deal, presumably these fees would be built into the price whether you or the dealer paid them. If you don’t buy it’s different. If a dealer gets a stone graded in advance but you don’t buy it, there’s no cost (to you) … If you get it graded and return the stone for whatever reason, you get stuck with the GIA bill.

Make them this offer:
I would like to have the stone graded by GIA as a condition of the purchase. If the GIA grades meet or exceed yours on weight, clarity, color and cutting, I’ll buy the stone for the full negotiated asking price, pay the GIA fee and an extra $50 for your trouble. If the GIA grade is inferior on at least one point, the deal is off and I owe nothing, you keep the stone, you pay the bill and you will then have a GIA graded stone to sell the next guy.

If they refuse this offer, and they almost certainly will, ask yourself why. If they truly believed their grading, what could be more fair?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[mufiin_top]

Hi Joshua, that is invaluable advice you gave there. I appreciate it

 

[mufiin_top]

Hi Neil,

This seller does have GIA graded gems and NON-enhanced NON-gia graded gems, for about half the price. His answer as to why they don''t grade them is that it takes several weeks and requires three GGs at GIA and sometimes they grade just short of what he thinks the diamond should grade by. But according to Joshua that isn''t not likely the case. SO basically he IS hiding something: the quality of the diamond; however he does disclose which ones are enhanced.

Add to that his communication leaves something to be desired and sadly I have decided to keep looking for a jeweler and the diamond accents elsewhere. Your advice is really quire wonderful, but I have decided to purchase a spinel center and only get diamonds as the accent stones. In fact, I DID purchase a spinel. I just have to wait for it to arrive in the mail and get an ID by a local GG. I am firmly set on a spinel now, after photo shopping my intended setting and seeing how nice it will look

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 1/4/2010 9:03:59 AM
Author: mufiin_top
Hi Neil,


This seller does have GIA graded gems and NON-enhanced NON-gia graded gems, for about half the price. His answer as to why they don't grade them is that it takes several weeks and requires three GGs at GIA and sometimes they grade just short of what he thinks the diamond should grade by. But according to Joshua that isn't not likely the case. SO basically he IS hiding something: the quality of the diamond; however he does disclose which ones are enhanced.


Add to that his communication leaves something to be desired and sadly I have decided to keep looking for a jeweler and the diamond accents elsewhere. Your advice is really quire wonderful, but I have decided to purchase a spinel center and only get diamonds as the accent stones. In fact, I DID purchase a spinel. I just have to wait for it to arrive in the mail and get an ID by a local GG. I am firmly set on a spinel now, after photo shopping my intended setting and seeing how nice it will look

Muffin,

Congratulations on your spinel. I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished piece.

Not to continue to beat a dead horse but I would like to address the time issue with regard to GIA because I hear it with increasing frequency. They’re currently quoting 2-10 day turnaround depending on the details but it’s correct that they’ve had significant problems with this issue in the past and may again in the future. It's been as high as 4-5 weeks. The key question here is – so what? It's not like diamonds are perishable. If dealers could DOUBLE their prices as your guy’s story would suggest by tying up their inventory for a month they would be nuts not to do so. Heck, the folks I know in this business would be tickled to wait a YEAR for half of that kind of return and would cheerfully submit every stone they possibly could. Wouldn’t you? The Wall Street types are chasing their tails looking for a 10% ROI per year, the banks are offering 3%, and this guy is saying he's too busy to take a 100% in a month! Gimme a break.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Heh heh heh...