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lumpkin

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I''m in Kansas and I NEVER heard of these being for sale. Apparently they were only sold in California briefly. I just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car" and then "An Inconvenient Truth". I''m ready to convert the mini van to electric, if I can find out how to do it. I''m also ready to put up some solar panels, LOL!

Seriously, it''s very scary. It''s been in the 40''s, 50''s and 60''s here and every winter seems to be warmer. I hardly ever wear a coat if I''m running an errand where I don''t have to get out of the car. When I was a kid, this time of year it was really warm and very unusual if it hit the 40''s. I remember catching the bus for school and freezing in a heavy coat at the bus stop.

Any other aspiring environmentalists on the board?
 

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poptart

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I just read an "Inconvenient Truth" as well, and I''m hoping to get a career in something that helps the environment. The temperatures here in Virginia have been in the 70s. It''s terrifying really. And just a couple days ago miles of ice fell off one of our oldest ice shelves (it has been in tact for over 3000 years). This can''t go on any longer and I''m hoping that I can do something to stop it. Solar panels are a great idea, and I''m sure you got some other good ideas from that book as well (such as flourescent light bulbs). I took the initiative and looked up some environmentally friendly websites for my mother''s company and am hoping they will now buy their products from these companies (they use recycled paper, environmentally friendly ink cartridges, and so on). They are meeting tomorrow at 8 to discuss the products and I''m hoping they all agree. If you can''t find the electric cars hybrids are good since they are usually made by Japanese companies that have scricter air quality standards than America. I''m so glad you started this thread!! I could go on forever and I will be checking back soon. If you want to see ANOTHER scary sight, such as where your electricity comes from, go to google and type in "mountain top removal". It has websites that show how companies are blowing up mountaintops in Appalachia to mine coal for our electricity. So turn off your lights when you aren''t in the room and get flourescent bulbs! On another note, to help save the rainforests, buy shade grown coffee... ok, ok, I''ll stop now. But I''ll be back later! Once again, thank you for starting this thread... I''ve been meaning to do so for awhile.

*M*
 

Miranda

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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4,101
Welllll......I think it is possible that the earth is in a warming trend. It''s happened before, along with an ice age. Remember the 70s and early 80s??? There was panic about "global cooling". The earth is verrrrrrrry old. I think it is presumptuous for humans to think that they have any control over the climate. Our world is just much bigger than that IMHO. That is not to say that we all have a responsiblilty to our environment. I just don''t buy old Al''s movie...It reeks of politics.
 

Jelly

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The Inconvenient Truth was an excellent film and I highly recommend it to anyone...democrat, republican...anyone!
 

poptart

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Date: 1/9/2007 12:07:27 AM
Author: Miranda
Welllll......I think it is possible that the earth is in a warming trend. It''s happened before, along with an ice age. Remember the 70s and early 80s??? There was panic about ''global cooling''. The earth is verrrrrrrry old. I think it is presumptuous for humans to think that they have any control over the climate. Our world is just much bigger than that IMHO. That is not to say that we all have a responsiblilty to our environment. I just don''t buy old Al''s movie...It reeks of politics.
I haven''t seen the movie, but I did read the book, which I recommend (lots of pictures!), and I say better safe than sorry. Even if we are in a "warming trend" which an old teacher of mine firmly believed, the fact still remains that there are holes in our ozone, carbon dioxide is being trapped within our atmosphere, and more harmful UV rays are coming through. And having about 6 billion people in the world does not just make us like the other creatures living on this earth because there are too many of us releasing too many harmful gases with our lifestyles. I don''t see it as presumptuous so much as sympathetic to our impact on the world. This earth is huge, but by chipping out its resources at every opportunity we are tiring it out. I don''t think the world will break down, but rather that it will react to the climate change in a bad way, and take many of the 6 billion with it. In an extremely small way I have seen the devastation that humans can cause, so it does not surprise or confuse me that we would have a large impact on our world, considering how many of us there are. I really do think that something needs to be done, and the only way to do it is through politics, unfortunately. And I think everyone could benefit from being more environmentally conscious and friendly, as you mentioned.

PS. I reread this post several times to make sure that it wasn''t offensive in any way, and I hope by quoting your post you weren''t offended either. This subject is just something I am very passionate about and I can''t stop myself from responding!

*M*
 

galeteia

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I was discussing the alarming and unusual weather we have been seeing up in Canada with a Librarian friend of mine tonight, and she mentioned the catastrophic loss of one of the biggest ice shelves we have that happened just recently. (Google it, and then tell me that global warming is a 'political thing')

We are facing an international dispute as new areas of our unguarded northern territory is losing its protective shield of ice, and all of a sudden other countries are making claims that what has historically been ours suddenly isn't ours anymore. For the first time ever, the Hudson Bay area will be passable, bringing a new slew of problems as traffic crosses our northern territory as a 'fast' route to Asia. I don't want to offend anyone on here, but there has already been a tense 'discussion' between our Prime Minister and the US President over the northern oil resources up there.

Sorry, but no one was grumping over Canada's claim to frozen wastelands until global warming started irreversibly defrosting it. Now, we're looking at what the US is going to try to do to a) gain control of 'its' northern border as entering Canada (and from Canada into the US) from the north will be possible, and b) stake a claim to the oil up there.

Our scientists have been panicking over the degeneration of the ice caps up here for years, and it always surprises me when I hear of people claiming the idea of global warming is 'alarmist'. (I'm not speaking of anyone on here, just in general).

Moreover, it is JANUARY and there is NO SNOW. This is not normal. We should be up to our knees if not hips in snow, and the grass is GREEN. That's right. GRASS. In CANADA. In JANUARY.


The earth IS very old, but unless the last ice age was triggered by a nuclear winter so long ago we have no trace of it anywhere (unlikely) the earth has never been pummeled by humans like it is now.

I have no issue with people who reject political motivations, but dismissing global warming as a political scam is like throwing the baby, husband, and parents out with the bath water.
 

poptart

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Joined
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Date: 1/9/2007 2:40:29 AM
Author: Galateia
I was discussing the alarming and unusual weather we have been seeing up in Canada with a Librarian friend of mine tonight, and she mentioned the catastrophic loss of one of the biggest ice shelves we have that happened just recently. (Google it, and then tell me that global warming is a ''political thing'')

We are facing an international dispute as new areas of our unguarded northern territory is losing it''s protective shield of ice, and all of a sudden other countries are making claims that what has historically been ours suddenly isn''t ours anymore. For the first time ever, the Hudson Bay area will be passable, bringing a new slew of problems as traffic crosses our northern territory as a ''fast'' route to Asia. I don''t want to offend anyone on here, but there has already been a tense ''discussion'' between our Prime Minister and the US President over the northern oil resources up there.

Sorry, but no one was grumping over Canada''s claim to frozen wastelands until global warming started irreversibly defrosting it. Now, we''re looking at what the US is going to try to do to a) gain control of ''its'' northern border as entering Canada (and from Canada into the US) from the north will be possible, and b) stake a claim to the oil up there.

Our scientists have been panicking over the degeneration of the ice caps up here for years, and it always surprises me when I hear of people claiming the idea of global warming is ''alarmist''. (I''m not speaking of anyone on here, just in general).

Moreover, it is JANUARY and there is NO SNOW. This is not normal. We should be up to our knees if not hips in snow, and the grass is GREEN. That''s right. GRASS. In CANADA. In JANUARY.


The earth IS very old, but unless the last ice age was triggered by a nuclear winter so long ago we have no trace of it anywhere (unlikely) the earth has never been pummeled by humans like it is now.

I have no issue with people who reject political motivations, but dismissing global warming as a political scam is like throwing the baby, husband, and parents out with the bath water.
Sigh. Why oh why won''t they just put all that funding and frustration and agony into finding a NEW energy/fuel source. I just don''t understand. That ice shelf news (which I heard right after it happened) just made my heart sink. Grass + Canada + January = VERY BAD. I was home in Utah for Christmas and it snowed... ONCE. And all the while Colorado was being pummeled by storm after storm. The imbalance is just alarming.

*M*
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Poptart, I think it''s about profit. There''s no profit in solar energy (or any other renewable energy source). You can''t tell me -- I won''t believe -- that there''s no way to harness it and store it effectively. Totally renewable (until such time as the sun begins to grow old, and at that time energy will be the least of our worries), totally clean, non poluting and no one government can claim it. Ahhhhh, there''s the rub, no one can claim it and make lots of money off of it.

I was alarmed at how many high ranking officials in the administration have roots in oil or the car industry.

I''m sad to say I am not the least bit surprised that the US is trying to usurp Canada''s territory.

I had no idea about the winters there, but given our winters here, I can see that happening. It is very scary. For some reason I remain optimistic, but feel I personally need to begin to lower my energy consumption and that of my family''s. We already use the compact flourescent lights, but we have the computers on and some lights on all the time. We will be changing that. I am also very interested in learning how to convert our cars to electric. I know it''s possible even if the car manufacturers won''t produce them. It may be our summer family project.
 

crown1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
1,682
just a note on this topic. the national news has had meteorologists reporting that the current weather pattern is due to el nino rather than global warming. i am not disputing anybody''s posts just stating that the current weather is being influenced by el nino.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
23,295
Date: 1/9/2007 8:38:52 AM
Author: crown1
just a note on this topic. the national news has had meteorologists reporting that the current weather pattern is due to el nino rather than global warming. i am not disputing anybody''s posts just stating that the current weather is being influenced by el nino.
that and sun spots the heat output of the sun is up over 3% right now over 5 years ago.
Its expected to increase even more.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 1/9/2007 2:40:29 AM
Author: Galateia

We are facing an international dispute as new areas of our unguarded northern territory is losing its protective shield of ice, and all of a sudden other countries are making claims that what has historically been ours suddenly isn't ours anymore. For the first time ever, the Hudson Bay area will be passable, bringing a new slew of problems as traffic crosses our northern territory as a 'fast' route to Asia. I don't want to offend anyone on here, but there has already been a tense 'discussion' between our Prime Minister and the US President over the northern oil resources up there.

Sorry, but no one was grumping over Canada's claim to frozen wastelands until global warming started irreversibly defrosting it. Now, we're looking at what the US is going to try to do to a) gain control of 'its' northern border as entering Canada (and from Canada into the US) from the north will be possible, and b) stake a claim to the oil up there.
We should park a carrier up there and say nanananana whatcha gonna do :}
Payback for all the money we spent on defense so Canada could freeload and then brag about how well there economy works. While we about went broke providing a defense screen.

edit: just to be clear im kidding but rereading this it can be taken the wrong way.
 

FireGoddess

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Joined
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Messages
12,145
Thanks for starting this thread!

I was so riled up after watching An Inconvenient Truth when it came out. I saw ads for Who Killed the Electric Car and got it off of Netflix the day it went to DVD. EVERYONE SHOULD SEE THIS FILM!!!!

Talk about getting angry all over again....

I have actually seen some Toyota RAV4 EV's on the streets of Cali. Not more than 1 or 2 though. I honk and wave every time I see one. It could be the same guy over and over. I don't care...I want to voice my support. I would have gotten the Prius had it been out when I needed to purchase a car. It came out a year or so later. Not as good as an electric car, but better than an all gas one. And people driving hummers drives me INSANE. No offense...but until you need to go trekking across a desert or off roading out of necessity, or are worried about encountering a tank...you don't need a freaking hummer! And how big must their gas tanks be when they're getting 8 mpg?!?!!?

Every time I hear about hydrogen as fuel I want to scream. HELLO...we have the technology already to go electric....hydrogen costs more than gas and we'd still have to build all the fueling stations!

ETA: Also, talking about the environment, did anyone read that the artic ice shelf BROKE OFF recently? Much faster than scientists even thought it would. It's January here in Cali and some days I barely need a coat. I hear 2007 is going to be the hottest year on record. Great.....
But global warming is definitely a hoax, right?
 

Miranda

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
4,101
Date: 1/9/2007 2:40:29 AM
Author: Galateia
I was discussing the alarming and unusual weather we have been seeing up in Canada with a Librarian friend of mine tonight, and she mentioned the catastrophic loss of one of the biggest ice shelves we have that happened just recently. (Google it, and then tell me that global warming is a ''political thing'')

We are facing an international dispute as new areas of our unguarded northern territory is losing its protective shield of ice, and all of a sudden other countries are making claims that what has historically been ours suddenly isn''t ours anymore. For the first time ever, the Hudson Bay area will be passable, bringing a new slew of problems as traffic crosses our northern territory as a ''fast'' route to Asia. I don''t want to offend anyone on here, but there has already been a tense ''discussion'' between our Prime Minister and the US President over the northern oil resources up there.

Sorry, but no one was grumping over Canada''s claim to frozen wastelands until global warming started irreversibly defrosting it. Now, we''re looking at what the US is going to try to do to a) gain control of ''its'' northern border as entering Canada (and from Canada into the US) from the north will be possible, and b) stake a claim to the oil up there.

Our scientists have been panicking over the degeneration of the ice caps up here for years, and it always surprises me when I hear of people claiming the idea of global warming is ''alarmist''. (I''m not speaking of anyone on here, just in general).

Moreover, it is JANUARY and there is NO SNOW. This is not normal. We should be up to our knees if not hips in snow, and the grass is GREEN. That''s right. GRASS. In CANADA. In JANUARY.


The earth IS very old, but unless the last ice age was triggered by a nuclear winter so long ago we have no trace of it anywhere (unlikely) the earth has never been pummeled by humans like it is now.

I have no issue with people who reject political motivations, but dismissing global warming as a political scam is like throwing the baby, husband, and parents out with the bath water.
It''s clear you feel passionately about this topic...My suggestion to you is to read posts and respond accordingly. If you were refering to me, you can reread my post and clearly see that I was suggesting Al Gore''s movie was political...Not "global warming". Just wanted to clarify.
 

Miranda

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
4,101
Date: 1/9/2007 2:37:02 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 1/9/2007 12:07:27 AM
Author: Miranda
Welllll......I think it is possible that the earth is in a warming trend. It''s happened before, along with an ice age. Remember the 70s and early 80s??? There was panic about ''global cooling''. The earth is verrrrrrrry old. I think it is presumptuous for humans to think that they have any control over the climate. Our world is just much bigger than that IMHO. That is not to say that we all have a responsiblilty to our environment. I just don''t buy old Al''s movie...It reeks of politics.
I haven''t seen the movie, but I did read the book, which I recommend (lots of pictures!), and I say better safe than sorry. Even if we are in a ''warming trend'' which an old teacher of mine firmly believed, the fact still remains that there are holes in our ozone, carbon dioxide is being trapped within our atmosphere, and more harmful UV rays are coming through. And having about 6 billion people in the world does not just make us like the other creatures living on this earth because there are too many of us releasing too many harmful gases with our lifestyles. I don''t see it as presumptuous so much as sympathetic to our impact on the world. This earth is huge, but by chipping out its resources at every opportunity we are tiring it out. I don''t think the world will break down, but rather that it will react to the climate change in a bad way, and take many of the 6 billion with it. In an extremely small way I have seen the devastation that humans can cause, so it does not surprise or confuse me that we would have a large impact on our world, considering how many of us there are. I really do think that something needs to be done, and the only way to do it is through politics, unfortunately. And I think everyone could benefit from being more environmentally conscious and friendly, as you mentioned.

PS. I reread this post several times to make sure that it wasn''t offensive in any way, and I hope by quoting your post you weren''t offended either. This subject is just something I am very passionate about and I can''t stop myself from responding!

*M*
Poptart - I really appreciate your thoughtful point of view. Please know that I took no offense to it. I LOVE passion and strong opinions - even if they aren''t exactly in line with my own. This is the beauty of being an American...We all have the freedom to think, feel and act the way we want to. Many people would kill or be killed for this right.
 

galeteia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,794
Date: 1/9/2007 11:37:24 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 1/9/2007 2:40:29 AM

Author: Galateia


We are facing an international dispute as new areas of our unguarded northern territory is losing its protective shield of ice, and all of a sudden other countries are making claims that what has historically been ours suddenly isn''t ours anymore. For the first time ever, the Hudson Bay area will be passable, bringing a new slew of problems as traffic crosses our northern territory as a ''fast'' route to Asia. I don''t want to offend anyone on here, but there has already been a tense ''discussion'' between our Prime Minister and the US President over the northern oil resources up there.


Sorry, but no one was grumping over Canada''s claim to frozen wastelands until global warming started irreversibly defrosting it. Now, we''re looking at what the US is going to try to do to a) gain control of ''its'' northern border as entering Canada (and from Canada into the US) from the north will be possible, and b) stake a claim to the oil up there.
We should park a carrier up there and say nanananana whatcha gonna do :}

Payback for all the money we spent on defense so Canada could freeload and then brag about how well there economy works. While we about went broke providing a defense screen.


edit: just to be clear im kidding but rereading this it can be taken the wrong way.
I''m not clear how else that could have been taken except for the wrong way. I am glad you clarified you were kidding. It''s true that the US has spent a lot of money to insure that they could not be invaded via Canada. But I doubt they were doing it for our benefit.

And secondly, I don''t think that entitles the US to try to stake a claim to our land, regardless of the reason. We''re already bound to a NAFTA agreement to export a certain amount of oil to the US regardless of whether or not we need that oil domestically. I would hope that should the day come that the US has the choice to either allow us to heat our own homes or demand that we honour that export to the US, they will allow us to take care of our basic needs first.

Miranda, I apologize if it seemed I was responding to your post by discussing the territory dispute. My post was meant to discuss the issues brought up by the topic. I also explained that my frustration was directed at the "people claiming the idea of global warming is ''alarmist''. (I''m not speaking of anyone on here, just in general)" meaning that I was not referring to anyone on this board. Someone made such a comment at my workplace last week, for example.

You did say that you don''t believe humans have any control over the climate, I disagree-- I feel we''re having a significant impact on the environment, and that you didn''t ''buy'' his movie because it ''reeks'' of politics. Like I said, I have no issue with people rejecting political manipulation. Politicians hitch their campaign to ''hot button issues'' all the time and unfairly exploit them, and I dislike that as well. But there is a lot more evidence of global warming than just what Al Gore has to say about it.

Crown1, my Librarian friend and I were also discussing how this is an El Nino year, and that while it will affect the weather, this is an ongoing trend. It''s true that El Nino makes for crazy weather, and that people should keep that in mind, but what is going on with the ice shelves is far beyond what El Nino can be blamed for.

I''m just hoping we can get the ball rolling on alternative fuels before we run out of the oil needed to make the technology to harness it! (Yep, that''s right; all the current ways to collect alternative power sources require immense amounts of fuel to build the machines that collect the alternative power. Anyone else see a problem here?)
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
2,491
Date: 1/9/2007 1:54:14 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Thanks for starting this thread!

I was so riled up after watching An Inconvenient Truth when it came out. I saw ads for Who Killed the Electric Car and got it off of Netflix the day it went to DVD. EVERYONE SHOULD SEE THIS FILM!!!!

Talk about getting angry all over again....

I have actually seen some Toyota RAV4 EV''s on the streets of Cali. Not more than 1 or 2 though. I honk and wave every time I see one. It could be the same guy over and over. I don''t care...I want to voice my support. I would have gotten the Prius had it been out when I needed to purchase a car. It came out a year or so later. Not as good as an electric car, but better than an all gas one. And people driving hummers drives me INSANE. No offense...but until you need to go trekking across a desert or off roading out of necessity, or are worried about encountering a tank...you don''t need a freaking hummer! And how big must their gas tanks be when they''re getting 8 mpg?!?!!?

Every time I hear about hydrogen as fuel I want to scream. HELLO...we have the technology already to go electric....hydrogen costs more than gas and we''d still have to build all the fueling stations!

ETA: Also, talking about the environment, did anyone read that the artic ice shelf BROKE OFF recently? Much faster than scientists even thought it would. It''s January here in Cali and some days I barely need a coat. I hear 2007 is going to be the hottest year on record. Great.....
But global warming is definitely a hoax, right?
Firegoddess, you are SUCH a woman after my own heart!!! It baffles me to think there are so many people who don''t believe in global warming. I agree with every point you make here.

Have you seen "Living with Ed" on HGTV? Entertaining and informative, always a good combo.
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
Date: 1/9/2007 9:57:14 PM
Author: lumpkin

Firegoddess, you are SUCH a woman after my own heart!!! It baffles me to think there are so many people who don''t believe in global warming. I agree with every point you make here.

Have you seen ''Living with Ed'' on HGTV? Entertaining and informative, always a good combo.
I haven''t seen Living with Ed, but I will have TiVo record it so I can check it out! Thanks for the tip.

I said this in my ''Inconvenient Truth'' thread...but to all those that don''t believe global warming exists...would it really hurt to be eco-friendly anyway? I mean, they said the Titanic was unsinkable. Maybe they should have been looking out for icebergs anyway, y''know?
Definitely wouldn''t have hurt.
 

galeteia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,794
Date: 1/9/2007 1:54:14 PM
Author: FireGoddess
I know; that was what started off my little soapbox speech up there. Canada lost something like 40% of it''s ice shelf in one go, scientists weren''t expecting the big one to just go like that. You don''t want to know how many ecosystems depended on that ice shelf.

Since El Nino is a valid point, the weather could possibly be blamed on El Nino, but the ice shelf is a whole different ballgame, so to speak.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Here is the real cause of all the wierd weather this year...

 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
Date: 1/10/2007 3:11:35 AM
Author: Galateia
I know; that was what started off my little soapbox speech up there. Canada lost something like 40% of it''s ice shelf in one go, scientists weren''t expecting the big one to just go like that. You don''t want to know how many ecosystems depended on that ice shelf.

Since El Nino is a valid point, the weather could possibly be blamed on El Nino, but the ice shelf is a whole different ballgame, so to speak.
Absolutely. El Nino will make a bad situation worse....it''s not making a good situation bad.
 

salmon

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
126
FG and Lumpkin, I''m with you guys on this one. People just need to be educated. The masses wll always do what their neighbors do, you really have to think for yourself in this world, especially do to advertising and mass marketing. Global warming is just one of a 100 issues most people are ill informed of. Sigh!!!!!!
 
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