Any tips for photographing colour change alexandrite?

[avidcollector]

Hi,
I have three rings with alexandrite, but even when I can clearly see they are green in the sunlight, the picture I take shows a purple colour. It's very frustrating.
I have played about with a light box and ring light that has different shades, but no matter what colour I see it comes out purple.
I just can't figure out what to do, other than just doctoring the photos to show the colour it should be (which I'd rather not do). I would ideally like to get both the most dramatic change and also all the colours in between. Sometimes they aren't a solid shade, but will be grey/green with a red bit deep in the centre when viewed at different angles. Pretty hard to replicate with photoshop.

I have taken photos of colour changing sapphires before and while it was difficult, it was still possible with a bit of light manipulation.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Good luck! Photographing Alexandrite is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. There are so many variables at play, such as the light source, the angle, the intensity of the light, etc. you just have to keep trying. Here are the only decent shots of my wife’s ring that I’ve been able to get in the last year using my iphone:

 

[avidcollector]

That is beautiful. You have done well to get those colours. Is that natural or synthetic alexandrite?

 

[LilAlex]

other than just doctoring the photos to show the colour it should be (which I'd rather not do).

I think this is what you have to do. I have posted about this before.

"Manipulating a gem photo" is not a crime -- the amount of manipulating that your phone camera does before you even see the "unedited" image is unbelievable and no one ever considers that. I wish our blue sapphires looked as spectacular IRL as they do in my stupid iPhone photos!

I do think the most candid vendors shoot in RAW (always undersaturated, always under-contrast) or whatever and adjust to mimic what the eye actually sees. It's hard when your livelihood depends upon the final image looking as good as possible -- so it takes a lot of integrity to say "enough!" when you are dialing up the saturation or vibrance or a certain color channel. I like when a vendor's gems all look different -- some are clearly pastel and some are cornflower and some are royal and a few are dark. Contrast that with some eBay vendors where every gem -- $100 or $100,000 -- has the saturation turned up to "11." (Note that if your high-end vendor sells actual pigeon-blood rubies and tip-top sapphires, they may be similar in hue and tone -- but I don't think Graff or Oscar Heyman sell on eBay .)

I have one miniscule alex (oh -- hence my name and first post!) with an excellent color change. With a DSLR and shooting in RAW, I have had no trouble showing the teal green vs. reddish-purple; however, both are dark in tone. Same for when I use my phone. Is it your flash, maybe, that is throwing things off?

And I hope you are using an SLR where your POV and the camera's are both the same?

 

[avidcollector]

Thanks Lily. I'm using an Olympus OM-D digital slr camera with macro lens and have the flash turned off. It's my son's camera, and he thinks it might be the polarized lens causing issues.
But we did try with a google pixel phone camera and the same thing happened.
I have a much older slr camera, so will dig that out, charge the battery and give it another shot.
As far as lighting goes, I use the camera's pre-sets, because that is less complicated and usually gives good results. The one I usually use is a fairly high ISO,I believe. If I don't use it, the photos come out too dark and I have to lighten them. I use gimp for photo editing.
I have tried in a set up where I have a light box and a ring light in front, that casts a few different shades of light. I have also tried in straight sunlight.
I'll eventually figure out something (I hope).
I appreciate your reply

 

[Voodoo Child]

That is beautiful. You have done well to get those colours. Is that natural or synthetic alexandrite?

It’s natural Tanzanian Alexandrite. Those photos were taken with an iPhone BTW, so you don’t necessarily need super high-end equipment to get a good photo. It’s just a matter of luck and having good environmental factors. The top photo was taken when my wife stuck her hand under a lamp that had a 15 watt soft light incandescent bulb. The bottom photo was taken under the fluorescent lights in our basement.

 

[Kessi]

Hi,
I have three rings with alexandrite, but even when I can clearly see they are green in the sunlight, the picture I take shows a purple colour. It's very frustrating.
I have played about with a light box and ring light that has different shades, but no matter what colour I see it comes out purple.
I just can't figure out what to do, other than just doctoring the photos to show the colour it should be (which I'd rather not do). I would ideally like to get both the most dramatic change and also all the colours in between. Sometimes they aren't a solid shade, but will be grey/green with a red bit deep in the centre when viewed at different angles. Pretty hard to replicate with photoshop.

I have taken photos of colour changing sapphires before and while it was difficult, it was still possible with a bit of light manipulation.

I am having the same issue, mine has not been tested yet and was concerned I had been conned... but using mirrors seems to also work. I also took pictures with an old Olympus camera. I was able to bring out green, blue, purple, red in my stone but in almost every picture the store is lavender, lilac, deep violet... always purple! I am so excited to get my origin report but hate to send off this beautiful stone! It is still in the original setting from the 1800s but have been searching for the perfect ring setting. If it comes back russian, we may have to sell as it is a very large gem.

 

[Kessi]

 

[Kessi]

Here are the pictures, while playing with lighting and mirrors

 

[pokerface]

@Kessi Do you have any photos in natural light? I'll be honest, the stone looks suspiciously clean and the color change shown seems unnatural. Fingers crossed for a good result or at least a good return policy.

 

[Starstruck8]

This problem is entirely normal. Just about everyone who posts an alexandrite thread notes it. I don't have an alexandrite, but my colour change garnet has the same problem.

As far as I know, the only solutions are some combination of editing and using a 'wrong' white balance.

For example, note the skin tones in Voodoo Child's picture. They're off, demonstrating 'wrong' white balance. This is not a fault, it's what is required to make the alexandrite look right.

Good luck! Photographing Alexandrite is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. There are so many variables at play, such as the light source, the angle, the intensity of the light, etc. you just have to keep trying. Here are the only decent shots of my wife’s ring that I’ve been able to get in the last year using my iphone:

I endorse LilAlex's comment:

I think this is what you have to do. I have posted about this before.

"Manipulating a gem photo" is not a crime -- the amount of manipulating that your phone camera does before you even see the "unedited" image is unbelievable and no one ever considers that. I wish our blue sapphires looked as spectacular IRL as they do in my stupid iPhone photos!

I do think the most candid vendors shoot in RAW (always undersaturated, always under-contrast) or whatever and adjust to mimic what the eye actually sees. It's hard when your livelihood depends upon the final image looking as good as possible -- so it takes a lot of integrity to say "enough!" when you are dialing up the saturation or vibrance or a certain color channel. I like when a vendor's gems all look different -- some are clearly pastel and some are cornflower and some are royal and a few are dark. Contrast that with some eBay vendors where every gem -- $100 or $100,000 -- has the saturation turned up to "11." (Note that if your high-end vendor sells actual pigeon-blood rubies and tip-top sapphires, they may be similar in hue and tone -- but I don't think Graff or Oscar Heyman sell on eBay .)

I have one miniscule alex (oh -- hence my name and first post!) with an excellent color change. With a DSLR and shooting in RAW, I have had no trouble showing the teal green vs. reddish-purple; however, both are dark in tone. Same for when I use my phone. Is it your flash, maybe, that is throwing things off?

And I hope you are using an SLR where your POV and the camera's are both the same?

For those who care, the basic problem is that the spectral sensitivity curves of typical camera photosites don't match the spectral responses curves of our eyes' cone cells.

Cone cell spectral response (scaled to max 1):


Spectral sensitivities for my camera (Nikon D7000):

Of course, different camera differ. But for every camera for which I have seen curves, the curves for the 'red' and 'green' photosites overlap far less than the curves for the corresponding cone cells. The camera processing algorithms try to adjust for this. They are deliberately tuned to work passably well for most everyday subjects. But alexandrites and other colour change stones are not everyday subjects.

 

[Voodoo Child]

This problem is entirely normal. Just about everyone who posts an alexandrite thread notes it. I don't have an alexandrite, but my colour change garnet has the same problem.

As far as I know, the only solutions are some combination of editing and using a 'wrong' white balance.

For example, note the skin tones in Voodoo Child's picture. They're off, demonstrating 'wrong' white balance. This is not a fault, it's what is required to make the alexandrite look right.



I endorse LilAlex's comment:


For those who care, the basic problem is that the spectral sensitivity curves of typical camera photosites don't match the spectral responses curves of our eyes' cone cells.

Cone cell spectral response (scaled to max 1):


Spectral sensitivities for my camera (Nikon D7000):

Of course, different camera differ. But for every camera for which I have seen curves, the curves for the 'red' and 'green' photosites overlap far less than the curves for the corresponding cone cells. The camera processing algorithms try to adjust for this. They are deliberately tuned to work passably well for most everyday subjects. But alexandrites and other colour change stones are not everyday subjects.

I got flamed when I first posted pictures of my wife’s ring because of the white balance. I know nothing about photography, so all I did was shoot the pics with my iPhone and then post them since they looked 99% similar to what my eyes were seeing.

 

[LilAlex]

Cone cell spectral response (scaled to max 1):

Spectral sensitivities for my camera (Nikon D7000):

These are cool and make a great point! In another sense, it seems like they may be from a Nikon ad since the camera appears to be so much "better" than the eye. It looks like there is a huge gap at 450nm in the human retina.

In contrast, when you look at the unscaled response curves, the picture is completely different. The eye is very insensitive to blue and extremely sensitive to green, with a peak response at 555nm! (What follows is a crummy rendering but it makes the point.)

 

[Starstruck8]

These are cool and make a great point! In another sense, it seems like they may be from a Nikon ad since the camera appears to be so much "better" than the eye. It looks like there is a huge gap at 450nm in the human retina.

In contrast, when you look at the unscaled response curves, the picture is completely different. The eye is very insensitive to blue and extremely sensitive to green, with a peak response at 555nm! (What follows is a crummy rendering but it makes the point.)

Yes, the ‘blue’ cones are much less sensitive than the ‘green’ ones. But that is not directly relevant to colour perception – our visual system in effect scales the cone outputs. (Note that perceived brightness depends on a sort of weighted average, with the ‘green’ cones dominant.)

No, the D7000 curves are not from a Nikon ad. (And to be clear, the curves I have shown are also scaled to max 1.) There are geeky photographers who measure this stuff and put it up on their websites. Searching will turn up data for most widely sold cameras.

And no, for accurate colour rendering, the D7000 curves are not especially good. Ideal would be for the camera curves to be strictly proportional to the cone curves, so that scaled to max 1, they would match. (To be really picky, it’s enough that the camera curves are independent linear combinations of the cone curves – the ‘Luther-Ives condition’.) No camera for which I have seen curves comes close to this. For all of them, the ‘red’ and ‘green’ peaks are more widely spaced than for the corresponding cones. In this regard, the D7000 curves are neither especially good nor especially bad.

Why don’t the camera manufactures don’t try to match the cone sensitivities more closely? I haven’t found an authoritative answer. The most plausible answer I’ve come across is that then the colour information would depend on a small difference of two large numbers. So it would be sensitive to noise and manufacturing tolerances.

 

[Shiny Black Cat]

Hi,
I have three rings with alexandrite, but even when I can clearly see they are green in the sunlight, the picture I take shows a purple colour. It's very frustrating.
I have played about with a light box and ring light that has different shades, but no matter what colour I see it comes out purple.
I just can't figure out what to do, other than just doctoring the photos to show the colour it should be (which I'd rather not do). I would ideally like to get both the most dramatic change and also all the colours in between. Sometimes they aren't a solid shade, but will be grey/green with a red bit deep in the centre when viewed at different angles. Pretty hard to replicate with photoshop.

I have taken photos of colour changing sapphires before and while it was difficult, it was still possible with a bit of light manipulation.

the trick is to shed a light through your stone, you can place a stone on light source directly,so that there is a light on the both sides of stone , and you should capture green colour. I hope l explained , just ask if something isn't clear.

 

[LD]

If you find the secret without photoshopping please let me know. Over 30 years I’ve only managed to capture it about 5 times.

 

[Shiny Black Cat]

If you find the secret without photoshopping please let me know. Over 30 years I’ve only managed to capture it about 5 times.

No photoshop. Just place your stone on the light source, so a light can go through your stone and try to take a photos with and without flash.

 

[LilAlex]

If you find the secret without photoshopping please let me know. Over 30 years I’ve only managed to capture it about 5 times.

I had no issue with mine -- outdoors and then indoors under a regular incandescent-bulb flashlight. This is from one of my first posts here -- but it is a tiny stone! Obviously the color temperature is different (stone sits on a white background) -- these were not edited -- but it is not hard to infer that the color change is not only from the slight change in incident light. The stone is dark but the color-change is very cool.

 

[Shiny Black Cat]

No photoshop. Just place your stone on the light source, so a light can go through your stone and try to take a photos with and without flash.

I had no issue with mine -- outdoors and then indoors under a regular incandescent-bulb flashlight. This is from one of my first posts here -- but it is a tiny stone! Obviously the color temperature is different (stone sits on a white background) -- these were not edited -- but it is not hard to infer that the color change is not only from the slight change in incident light. The stone is dark but the color-change is very cool.

it doesn"t look tiny. color change is beautiful.

 

[Bron357]

My wee *Russian* Alex is very hard to photograph the day colour. It ranges from looking blue, to dark green, to a grey green. The incandescent light is much easier to capture.
With my bracelet, they are Brazilian and they seem to photograph better in daylight.

 

[Starstruck8]

This picture illustrates the problem, though it does nothing to solve it. Left, my colour change garnet photographed [above] in open shade (i.e. under a blue sky, with no direct sun) and [below] in candlelight. (Yes, with an actual candle and a long exposure.) Both pictures were white balanced from the reference at the bottom. Right, with the stone edited to look as it looked to me. The candlelight picture is not bad - a bit more magenta than it looked. The open shade picture is way out, murky maroon rather than grey-violet-blue.

It’s natural Tanzanian Alexandrite. Those photos were taken with an iPhone BTW, so you don’t necessarily need super high-end equipment to get a good photo. It’s just a matter of luck and having good environmental factors. The top photo was taken when my wife stuck her hand under a lamp that had a 15 watt soft light incandescent bulb. The bottom photo was taken under the fluorescent lights in our basement.

I just noticed this. That may have been the trick. Generally, photographers hate fluorescent lights, because (in addition to the flicker) the spiky spectrum messes with the colour. But in this case, it may have been just what was needed.

 

[Voodoo Child]

This picture illustrates the problem, though it does nothing to solve it. Left, my colour change garnet photographed [above] in open shade (i.e. under a blue sky, with no direct sun) and [below] in candlelight. (Yes, with an actual candle and a long exposure.) Both pictures were white balanced from the reference at the bottom. Right, with the stone edited to look as it looked to me. The candlelight picture is not bad - a bit more magenta than it looked. The open shade picture is way out, murky maroon rather than grey-violet-blue.






I just noticed this. That may have been the trick. Generally, photographers hate fluorescent lights, because (in addition to the flicker) the spiky spectrum messes with the colour. But in this case, it may have been just what was needed.

I don’t know anything about photography, as evidenced by the fact that I had never heard of white-balancing until I got flamed on my very first post on this forum. I snap pics with my iPhone, and if the photo closely matches what my eyes see, I keep it. If the photo doesn’t match, I delete it.

 

[Shiny Black Cat]

It’s natural Tanzanian Alexandrite. Those photos were taken with an iPhone BTW, so you don’t necessarily need super high-end equipment to get a good photo. It’s just a matter of luck and having good environmental factors. The top photo was taken when my wife stuck her hand under a lamp that had a 15 watt soft light incandescent bulb. The bottom photo was taken under the fluorescent lights in our basement.

what is the color if you take a photos in daylight, l mean color on the photo?

 

[Voodoo Child]

what is the color if you take a photos in daylight, l mean color on the photo?

It depends on the light. It can be bluish in direct sunlight or greenish in indirect light, especially on a cloudy day. The first pic is strong direct sunlight on a sunny day. The second pic is indirect light on a cloudy day.

 

[Shiny Black Cat]

It depends on the light. It can be bluish in direct sunlight or greenish in indirect light, especially on a cloudy day. The first pic is strong direct sunlight on a sunny day. The second pic is indirect light on a cloudy day.

Asking because my stone literally changes colour during a day, also depends on weather clouds, sunshine , shadow etc. it's purple red in incandescent light. Your camera is much better. View attachment 881444

 

[Voodoo Child]

Here is a pic a just snapped of my wife’s ring in front of the fire. I used Light Room to white balance it after the fact, but have also included the unbalanced photo for reference.

 

[LD]

People are posting photos of the nighttime colour change (ie purple, red etc which is easy to photograph.

What's much more problematic is getting an EXACT daytime colour (ie the green colourway). I can photograph all my alex in daylight and get the nighttime colour show on the photos - however, getting the green to show is where the difficulty lies. Interestingly, in my weaker colour changers, it's much easier to get a glimpse of the green. With the strong colour changers (such as the one in my avatar) it's impossible to get the accurate green.

I've only once achieved what I would call a perfect photo of the daylight green I see and I was sitting at the lights, in my car, it was cold and snowing outside and I took a photo with my iphone and voila! The green showed up. I've never been able to replicate that again. This is a strong colour changer.

This is almost the colour green I see with my eyes. This is a good Alex though and I was once asked (in a jewellers) if it was an Emerald lol

 

[LD]

I thought you might find this interesting. This is some of my Alex and there's a mix of good and poor colour changers on my hand (with the exception of one or two, none of these are what I would call good quality). Look at the ones I've pointed to with arrows. They are the ones that have rubbish colour change and you can see that they are looking green. The ones with the better colour change are showing no green at all - although, when I was looking at them, trying to take this photo, they all looked green!

If you look at my previous post, you'll see the same ring but this time it's on my ring finger, middle ring. This is the same iphone but for some reason played ball one day and not another!

 

[Shiny Black Cat]

I thought you might find this interesting. This is some of my Alex and there's a mix of good and poor colour changers on my hand (with the exception of one or two, none of these are what I would call good quality). Look at the ones I've pointed to with arrows. They are the ones that have rubbish colour change and you can see that they are looking green. The ones with the better colour change are showing no green at all - although, when I was looking at them, trying to take this photo, they all looked green!

If you look at my previous post, you'll see the same ring but this time it's on my ring finger, middle ring. This is the same iphone but for some reason played ball one day and not another!

can you tell me , please, what is geography origin of your stones?

 

[LD]

can you tell me , please, what is geography origin of your stones?

They are from different localities. I've collected Alex for over 30 years and these are just a few of my collection. I would have to look up my files on each one for the specific locality but (apart from the cheaper ones), location doesn't come into the buying equation for me. The strength of colour change is THE most important criteria for an Alex, followed by size and clarity.