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Antique Pear help

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
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Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
I'm seriously considering an antique pear ring. The center stone is only ~2.4 ct but with dimensions: 12.13-8.28x3.42mm.
This fact that the depth is only 3.42mm concerns me. Is it common that the antique pears are cut shallower than modern pears?
Other antique pear owner, what is your stone size and what is the depth?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,198
There are no standards for antique pears. That's the point. They were cut in very different era. I have seen some shallow ones. And some deep ones.

The fact is, it doesn't matter. At ALL.

All that matters is the faceting and the light return. I've seen some freaking GORGEOUS ones. I've seen some dogs.

So stop stressing about the depth.

Put the thing on hold. And post pictures for us to see so we can tell you if it is worth your time.
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
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Gypsy|1472280445|4070490 said:
There are no standards for antique pears. That's the point. They were cut in very different era. I have seen some shallow ones. And some deep ones.

The fact is, it doesn't matter. At ALL.

All that matters is the faceting and the light return. I've seen some freaking GORGEOUS ones. I've seen some dogs.

So stop stressing about the depth.

Put the thing on hold. And post pictures for us to see so we can tell you if it is worth your time.

Thanks Gypsy
Here are some pics of the pear cluster with a round cluster
tworings3_0.jpg
tworings4.jpg
tworings1.jpg
tworings2.jpg
 

Gypsy

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Yeah, no. Not a good one. Don't get me wrong, as a WHOLE the ring is pretty. But if you are talking about the stone itself. No.

You see how in the close ups you can see your finger through the diamond in parts?

That's windowing. And windowing straight on like that is a big no no in a diamond.

It's not well cut. And if I were to be honest, for me, if the stone was divorced from it's setting it would be in "hot mess" category for faceting.

I REALLY like the round ring in the picture though.
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
Gypsy|1472342788|4070717 said:
Yeah, no. Not a good one. Don't get me wrong, as a WHOLE the ring is pretty. But if you are talking about the stone itself. No.

You see how in the close ups you can see your finger through the diamond in parts?

That's windowing. And windowing straight on like that is a big no no in a diamond.

It's not well cut. And if I were to be honest, for me, if the stone was divorced from it's setting it would be in "hot mess" category for faceting.

I REALLY like the round ring in the picture though.

Thanks. I was going back and forth between these two. I always want a cluster ring. So it seems that the round will be a better choice then?
 

Gypsy

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imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
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Apr 14, 2015
Messages
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Gypsy|1472347646|4070741 said:
From the pictures it does appear to be. But I can't tell color or clarity or anything from those pictures. And you have to be comfortable with all the details. And, of course, the price has to be right.

That's all I can say. Between the two, in terms of performance, I prefer the round. That's just a minimum standard though.

There is this one too: http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/rings/vintage-antique/1-38ctw-old-european-cut-and-old-mine-cut-cluster-rosette-ring#.V8I9vK3FFS0

This one by Grace is very nice but a bit smaller than what I want.

Round Cluster: 3.05 ctw
CENTER: OLD EUROPEAN Cut, 6.40x6.36x4.63mm, 1.35ct in G-H color SI2 clarity, EGL USA certificate
SIDE: 8 OLD cut Diamonds, estimated total weight is 1.70CT, H-I-J color, VS2-SI2 clarity overall .

Pear Cluster: 3.78 ctw
CENTER: OLD EUROPEAN Cut, 12.13-8.28x3.42mm, 2.38ct in G color SII clarity, GIA certificate
SIDE: 12 OLD cut Diamonds, estimated total weight is 1.40CT, H-I color, VS2-SI1 clarity.

Last but not least, the Price. The pear cost TWICE as the round. The round is ~8K.

Honest opinion and expert advice are always welcome!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Is the center stone eyeclean?
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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What's your budget ?
I see that pear listed online but of course it's OBO so I don't know what you've taken it down to.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If you want something a little more unique than a round cluster ring you can consider going custom with Grace's bench. She has a good one.

I have had my eye on this beauty. It's is so fabulous:
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8JLxa3FFS0 It would look great as a cluster ring.

This guy is nice too: http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-31ct-antique-pear-shape-diamond-gia-g-si1#.V8JLc63FFS0


Just food for thought. And these are GIA papered so you know that the grading is accurate.

Here is a marquise cluster halo. It would look fabulous with that old cut marquise. It would give you nice finger coverage.

rg0216072v.jpg
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
Niel|1472351206|4070756 said:
What's your budget ?
I see that pear listed online but of course it's OBO so I don't know what you've taken it down to.
It is within my budget. The vendor's best offer is 18k for pear and 8K for round. I'm not sure whether there is any more wiggle room in the prices.

How I wish I can have both! :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
Gypsy|1472351480|4070759 said:
If you want something a little more unique than a round cluster ring you can consider going custom with Grace's bench. She has a good one.

I have had my eye on this beauty. It's is so fabulous:
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8JLxa3FFS0 It would look great as a cluster ring.

This guy is nice too: http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-31ct-antique-pear-shape-diamond-gia-g-si1#.V8JLc63FFS0


Just food for thought. And these are GIA papered so you know that the grading is accurate.

Here is a marquise cluster halo. It would look fabulous with that old cut marquise. It would give you nice finger coverage.

Thanks for these options. I think I will take a bit time to explore all these options.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
imdoubler|1472358044|4070785 said:
Gypsy|1472351480|4070759 said:
If you want something a little more unique than a round cluster ring you can consider going custom with Grace's bench. She has a good one.

I have had my eye on this beauty. It's is so fabulous:
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8JLxa3FFS0 It would look great as a cluster ring.

This guy is nice too: http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-31ct-antique-pear-shape-diamond-gia-g-si1#.V8JLc63FFS0


Just food for thought. And these are GIA papered so you know that the grading is accurate.

Here is a marquise cluster halo. It would look fabulous with that old cut marquise. It would give you nice finger coverage.

Thanks for these options. I think I will take a bit time to explore all these options.

If you are interested in the marquise or the pear, but them on hold for now. Those diamonds are one of a kind, and REALLY NICE. Not to mention affordable. They will move quick.

I personally feel that marquise is just flat out perfection. And while I am not a cluster ring aficionado (I like them, just not for myself) That marquise, I feel, is MADE for a cluster ring. Strong and beautiful enough to hold its own in what is a very overpowering setting.

And like I said, Grace has a good bench and frankly a GREAT eye.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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4,114
I'm no diamond expert and I can see that the round halo ring is better and a good price, BUT I do like that pear ring, very striking presentation, even if the pear diamond isn't quite up to standard, but the price is also a bit over in my opinion.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Gypsy|1472342788|4070717 said:
Yeah, no. Not a good one. Don't get me wrong, as a WHOLE the ring is pretty. But if you are talking about the stone itself. No.

You see how in the close ups you can see your finger through the diamond in parts?

That's windowing. And windowing straight on like that is a big no no in a diamond.

It's not well cut. And if I were to be honest, for me, if the stone was divorced from it's setting it would be in "hot mess" category for faceting.

I REALLY like the round ring in the picture though.
This specific pear is hard to figure out from these pics, I have a problem with how the culet forms, to me it looks like a four main pavilion (but I could be wrong).

But on the other hand I would like to remind that antique cuts in general are 'not well cut' by modern standards, sure they have their appeal and not to mention beauty but they would usually have windows and lack primary light return (red in aset), even most GIA graded ex-ex modern pears lack primary light return usually.

(Important) parts of the beauty of old cut pears (drops) is their shape, 3D proportions and the appearance these proportions create, IMO part of the agreed consensus on beautifly cut old pears is they need be spready (wider than modern shapes) and have a proportioned crown height in combination with a smallish table (but not limited to). This means the pavilion facets must be cut shallow! A lot of my colleagues actually prefer the see-through look achieved by such shallow pavilions as long as you can enjoy a clear visual of the faceting design/facet junctions through the table which becomes a must instead of super light return. Who said leakage can't be beautiful except AGS :evil:

Now back to the stone at subject, if my suspicions are correct this might be a spready four fold pavilion pear shape which required a polished culet in order to avoid cutting the pavilion angles below the Diamond's critical angles thus forcing a medium sized culet. If this is the case I am in full agreement with Gypsy. But if I am wrong I would have liked to see more images (including tilts and profile), as an antique cut it could surprise us all.
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
DiaGem|1472413260|4070942 said:
Gypsy|1472342788|4070717 said:
Yeah, no. Not a good one. Don't get me wrong, as a WHOLE the ring is pretty. But if you are talking about the stone itself. No.

You see how in the close ups you can see your finger through the diamond in parts?

That's windowing. And windowing straight on like that is a big no no in a diamond.

It's not well cut. And if I were to be honest, for me, if the stone was divorced from it's setting it would be in "hot mess" category for faceting.

I REALLY like the round ring in the picture though.
This specific pear is hard to figure out from these pics, I have a problem with how the culet forms, to me it looks like a four main pavilion (but I could be wrong).

But on the other hand I would like to remind that antique cuts in general are 'not well cut' by modern standards, sure they have their appeal and not to mention beauty but they would usually have windows and lack primary light return (red in aset), even most GIA graded ex-ex modern pears lack primary light return usually.

(Important) parts of the beauty of old cut pears (drops) is their shape, 3D proportions and the appearance these proportions create, IMO part of the agreed consensus on beautifly cut old pears is they need be spready (wider than modern shapes) and have a proportioned crown height in combination with a smallish table (but not limited to). This means the pavilion facets must be cut shallow! A lot of my colleagues actually prefer the see-through look achieved by such shallow pavilions as long as you can enjoy a clear visual of the faceting design/facet junctions through the table which becomes a must instead of super light return. Who said leakage can't be beautiful except AGS :evil:

Now back to the stone at subject, if my suspicions are correct this might be a spready four fold pavilion pear shape which required a polished culet in order to avoid cutting the pavilion angles below the Diamond's critical angles thus forcing a medium sized culet. If this is the case I am in full agreement with Gypsy. But if I am wrong I would have liked to see more images (including tilts and profile), as an antique cut it could surprise us all.
Thanks for your inputs! I cannot find a pic of the stone itself as it was mounted. But here is the GIA and 1 close up pic of the ring.

il_fullxfull_31.jpg
il_fullxfull_30.jpg
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
18,853
Is it fair to assume you want to stumble across a true antique cluster ring? Or would you be ok creating one?
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Niel|1472419246|4070967 said:
Is it fair to assume you want to stumble across a true antique cluster ring? Or would you be ok creating one?


Yes, I prefer an true antique cluster ring but it has to be in good shape and condition.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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So these are not cluster rings but I am still looking. I just wanted to share as they are lovely. There are asking too much but sometimes they just ask that to see what they can get.

Again still looking

link

link 2
 

Gypsy

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Messages
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Hmm, the close up and lab report are interesting. The depth is in the 40s!!!! 6 main faceting.

I'd like to hear what Diagem can tell us about the cut of this (within the forum rules).
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
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Gypsy|1472448384|4071093 said:
Hmm, the close up and lab report are interesting. The depth is in the 40s!!!! 6 main faceting.

I'd like to hear what Diagem can tell us about the cut of this (within the forum rules).
Well, it looks to me that Gypsy was on the ball on this one..., it's certainly not an antique cut or style. It's a 6 main, some antique cuts might have 7 mains instead of 8 (excluding the tip to keep it a sharp one) but there will always be a main facet on both the crown & pavilion between the shoulders (this stone excludes a pavilion main). This specific is a 6 main..., we'll sort of as the two side main pavilion barely reach the culet, that's why the culet shape is a Diamond shape (eg four mains reaches the culet only).
If you are set on an antique pear I would suggest to keep looking, I have seen a few real nice ones out there but can't point them out.
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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DiaGem|1472497837|4071227 said:
Gypsy|1472448384|4071093 said:
Hmm, the close up and lab report are interesting. The depth is in the 40s!!!! 6 main faceting.

I'd like to hear what Diagem can tell us about the cut of this (within the forum rules).
Well, it looks to me that Gypsy was on the ball on this one..., it's certainly not an antique cut or style. It's a 6 main, some antique cuts might have 7 mains instead of 8 (excluding the tip to keep it a sharp one) but there will always be a main facet on both the crown & pavilion between the shoulders (this stone excludes a pavilion main). This specific is a 6 main..., we'll sort of as the two side main pavilion barely reach the culet, that's why the culet shape is a Diamond shape (eg four mains reaches the culet only).
If you are set on an antique pear I would suggest to keep looking, I have seen a few real nice ones out there but can't point them out.

Thanks!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I will keep looking then. I'm so glad I posted it here. :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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YAY. I means a lot that Diagem agrees with me!

Just for your reference, here is the nicest pears I've ever seen-- antique or modern faceting. Owned by a PSer.

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-01ct-antique-pear-shape-diamond-gia-g-vs1#.V8UE6K3FFS1

It's not a deep stone at all, the depth being less than 60 (which is shallow), but you can see the difference.

The marquise I posted for you before is, frankly, the nicest marquise I've ever seen as well:
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8UFrK3FFS0 It is on par with that pear in terms of cut.

That's why I recommended it to you.

If I wanted an antique cut stone right now, here is my list of the top three under 10k I would buy:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8UFrK3FFS0
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-41ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-vs1#.V8UFVq3FFS0
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-04ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-vs1#.V8UGo63FFS0
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Gypsy|1472530224|4071351 said:
YAY. I means a lot that Diagem agrees with me!

Just for your reference, here is the nicest pears I've ever seen-- antique or modern faceting. Owned by a PSer.

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-01ct-antique-pear-shape-diamond-gia-g-vs1#.V8UE6K3FFS1

It's not a deep stone at all, the depth being less than 60 (which is shallow), but you can see the difference.

The marquise I posted for you before is, frankly, the nicest marquise I've ever seen as well:
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8UFrK3FFS0 It is on par with that pear in terms of cut.

That's why I recommended it to you.

If I wanted an antique cut stone right now, here is my list of the top three under 10k I would buy:

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-25ct-antique-marquise-cut-diamond-gia-h-vvs2#.V8UFrK3FFS0
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-41ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-vs1#.V8UFVq3FFS0
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-04ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-vs1#.V8UGo63FFS0

Thanks Gypsy!
Unfortunately Marquise is not what I like. This project is all about cluster ring. Now I'm going back to decide whether I want the round cluster mentioned earlier in this thread or got the stones from Grace or Erica and remake one.
 

imdoubler

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
256
bump

After so much back and forth, I decide to bite the bullet and buy the round cluster ring mentioned earlier in this thread.
It will arrive later this week and then I have 3 days to decide it's a keeper or not.
I'm excited as well as nervous. Hopefully it will look great in person.
I will come back to update once it arrive.

The seller has confirmed that the milgrain is worn out at some of the bezel. Depends on how I like it, it might need a rehab to restore all milgrain details. Who should I turn to for this sort of antique ring rehab job? Any lead will be appreciated.
 
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