Another shooting in the US…….

[Bron357]

Yet another US shooting.
14 little children dead.
Shot.
I know many of you guys love your guns, love your right to own and carry them but seriously, is it worth it?
I know many of you feel safer because you can have a gun to protect your family if the bad person threatens you but if everyone and everyone can have a gun, people, how are you safer?
So many people die in the US every. single. year. because of the ease of access to guns.
Police shoot people whose hands don’t go up fast enough.
Angry people shoot the person who cut in on them in traffic.
Kids shoot their friends, their family because they found a gun and played with it.
You hear a noise downstairs, a robber, so you grab your gun but he/she has a gun too and it ends badly.
If everyone and anyone can have a gun this is how it is.
This is how it always will be
Unless something changes
Unless gun laws change.

 

[yssie]

Guess we’re really back to normal.

I have no problem with hunting. No problem with non-military and non-LE civilians buying hunting rifles. A legislated number of them per household. With legislation for thorough background checks, legislation for required training, legislation of storage specifics, and criminalization of anyone besides the individual to whom a weapon is registered using it - even if no damage is done. And yes, Bad Actors will own whatever they want anyway - let their illegal ownership shine out like a beacon rather than get drowned in a sea of the same.

 

[KristyDarling]

I swear I will lose it if Gov. Abbott says this is why we need to arm teachers. Or if we start hearing that this was staged and everyone at that traumatized school are crisis actors. But hey, at least no fetuses were harmed!!

 

[Gussie]

I swear I will lose it if Gov. Abbott says this is why we need to arm teachers. Or if we start hearing that this was staged and everyone at that traumatized school are crisis actors. But hey, at least no fetuses were harmed!!

Ken Paxton already said it about arming teachers and he just defeated George P. Bush in the primary for AG. Welcome to Dystopia, Texas.

 

[Calliecake]

It’s now being reported 18 children and 2 adults are dead.

It was reported tonight that some of the children are unrecognizable. Every lawmaker should have to see these children. They should have to attend the funerals of these children. Maybe then they would grow a conscience and finally stand up to the NRA.

i agree @KristyDarling. He is working tirelessly to keep women from having a legal abortion and yet when it comes to doing things to actually protect living breathing children, all he has to offer is thoughts and prayers.

@Bron357 , If guns made us safer, we would be the safest county on earth. Please know there are many Americans who are disgusted with the country tonight.

 

[kenny]

This will never end.

 

[pearlsngems]

There is not the political will to change it. Honestly I feel pretty hopeless about it.

 

[yssie]

@Bron357 , If guns made us safer, we would be the safest county on earth. Please know there are many Americans who are disgusted with the country tonight.

This.

 

[Ally T]

I've posted my opinions on US gun ownership before, so I shall refrain from repeating the same tirade.

Get. Rid. Of. The. Guns.

New Zealand did it within a week of their last shooting. Banned. Done. Easy. OVER.

The right to bear arms refers to a barrelled shotgun with which you have to stuff gunpowder down the muzzle, in order to protect your property. In the 1700's. Not machine guns for kids to carry into schools because they're a bit angry about something, ffs.

Go ahead & bring back the barrelled shotguns & gunpowder!
THEN see how many Americans will carry one to protect themselves.
Then see how many murderes could be bother murdering people.
Then see how many people would get to LIVE THEIR LIVES......

 

[Snowdrop13]

I just don’t get it. At all.

Here (U.K.) there is strict gun control, but that doesn’t mean you can’t own one. I have colleagues and neighbours who have a gun, the difference being that they have ONE, and it is a rifle, for hunting. They all eat what they shoot and that is OK. They are all also completely sane and mature. There’s little chance of seeing a disgruntled teen getting one. And there has been one school shooting here in my whole life (50+ years).

Those poor families, losing their precious babies. Heartbreaking.

 

[kenny]

I don't blame the politicians.
I blame the voters.

Politicians from "those" areas know that supporting gun control is career suicide, and another politician will quickly take their place.
So I blame the voters in "those" areas.

Democracies reflect their voters.
Anxious parents waiting into the night for a DNA match because their kids can't be identified by looking at their faces is what American voters want.
I read somewhere that pro-gun politicians should be forced to view these children's coroner photos.

It's all so sickening.

 

[diamondringlover]

my heart breaks for those children and their parents, my prayers go out to all the kids, adults and families of them all...this is just heartbreaking

 

[Ally T]

I just don’t get it. At all.

Here (U.K.) there is strict gun control, but that doesn’t mean you can’t own one. I have colleagues and neighbours who have a gun, the difference being that they have ONE, and it is a rifle, for hunting. They all eat what they shoot and that is OK. They are all also completely sane and mature. There’s little chance of seeing a disgruntled teen getting one. And there has been one school shooting here in my whole life (50+ years).

Those poor families, losing their precious babies. Heartbreaking.

I am also very rural & there are a lot of shotgun owners, including the farmers to protect livestock, but the farmers I know have NEVER had to discharge their guns.

Around here there are organised Pheasant shoots (to keep the population under control) but they are well planned & well publicised within the village so that everyone is aware. At the end of it, the shotguns go back into the locked cabinets & the vilages get given the birds if they want any.

Full background checks, police checks & mental health assessments are mandatory here. If you wobble on any of these & the system shows you legally own a shotgun for hunts, they will simply turn up & confiscate it.

 

[chrono]

All the politicians will do is offer more prayers and thoughts. Nothing is going to change.

 

[missy]

Not surprising but still so shocking.

In the US, every day, more than 35 people are murdered with a gun.
No other affluent country in the world has a gun homicide rate nearly as high.



The chart does not include suicides and accidental shootings.
Altogether, guns killed about 45,000 Americans last year.



www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html

"

NYT Nicholas Kristof: How to reduce shootings​

March 24th, 2021


||| FROM NEW YORK TIMES |||

America has been shaken by new mass shootings, in Georgia and Colorado, with at least 18 people killed. This essay originally ran in 2017, after a shooter killed 26 people in a Texas church, but the issue is still tragically relevant — and will remain so until America tightens its gun safety policies.
America has more guns than any other country
The first step is to understand the scale of the challenge America faces: The U.S. has more than 300 million guns — roughly one for every citizen — and stands out as well for its gun death rates. At the other extreme, Japan has less than one gun per 100 people, and typically fewer than 10 gun deaths a year in the entire country.

We have a model for regulating guns: automobiles
Gun enthusiasts often protest: Cars kill about as many people as guns, and we don’t ban them! No, but automobiles are actually a model for the public health approach I’m suggesting.
We don’t ban cars, but we work hard to regulate them — and limit access to them — so as to reduce the death toll they cause. This has been spectacularly successful, reducing the death rate per 100 million miles driven by 95 percent since 1921.
Take a look at the history of motor vehicle safety since World War II:

The liberal approach is ineffective.
Use a public health approach instead.
Frankly, liberal opposition to guns has often been ineffective, and sometimes counterproductive. The 10-year ban on assault weapons accomplished little, partly because definitions were about cosmetic features like bayonet mounts (and partly because even before the ban, such guns were used in only 2 percent of crimes).
The left sometimes focuses on “gun control,” which scares off gun owners and leads to more gun sales. A better framing is “gun safety” or “reducing gun violence,” and using auto safety as a model—constant efforts to make the products safer and to limit access by people who are most likely to misuse them.
What would a public health approach look like for guns if it were modeled after cars? It would include:

If someone steals my iPhone, it’s useless, and the same should be true of guns. Gun manufacturers made child-proof guns back in the 19th century (before dropping them), and it’s time to advance that technology today. Some combination of smart guns and safe storage would also reduce the number of firearms stolen in the U.S. each year, now about 200,000, and available to criminals.
We also need to figure out whether gun buybacks, often conducted by police departments, are cost-effective and help reduce violence. And we can experiment more with anti-gang initiatives, such as Cure Violence, that have a good record in reducing shootings.
Fewer guns = fewer deaths
It is true that guns are occasionally used to stop violence. But contrary to what the National Rifle Association suggests, this is rare. One study by the Violence Policy Center found that in 2012 there were 259 justifiable homicides by a private citizen using a firearm.

Lax laws too often make it easy not only for good guys to get guns, but also for bad guys to get guns. The evidence is overwhelming that overall more guns and more relaxed gun laws lead to more violent deaths and injuries. One study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine found that a gun in the house was associated with an increased risk of a gun death, particularly by suicide but also apparently by homicide.

"

 

[siamese3]

No words about yet another soul crushing tragedy. It's utterly senseless and incredibly horrific. Heartbreaking.

 

[autumngems]

How did he get into the school, I thought all schools had locks now and you had to be buzzed in?
My husbands has MANY guns but he shoots as a hobby and hunts.
I am for certain bans of course, and certain rules as to age and criminal history and mental health issues.

 

[OreoRosies86]

We need to get RID OF GUNS, entirely, no exceptions. Sorry gun owners, the “bad guys” ruined it for you. You’ll get over it.

 

[swingtime]

I don't blame the politicians.
I blame the voters.

Politicians from "those" areas know that supporting gun control is career suicide, and another politician will quickly take their place.
So I blame the voters in "those" areas.

Democracies reflect their voters.
Anxious parents waiting into the night for a DNA match because their kids can't be identified by looking at their faces is what American voters want.
I read somewhere that pro-gun politicians should be forced to view these children's coroner photos.

It's all so sickening.

I get what you're saying, but I very much blame the politicians - well, one group. McConnell is 80 years old. Career suicide? How long is his career supposed to go on? Where's the integrity. Their shamelessness knows no bounds. And I agree that they should be forced to stare at the children's coroner photos.

 

[missy]

From a friend

“
Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
Great Mills High School.
Central Michigan University.
Huffman High School.
Frederick Douglass High School.
Forest High School.
Highland High School.
Dixon High School.
Santa Fe High School.
Noblesville West Middle School.
University of North Carolina Charlotte.
STEM School Highlands Ranch.
Edgewood High School.
Palm Beach Central High School.
Providence Career & Technical Academy.
Fairley High School (school bus).
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Dennis Intermediate School.
Florida International University.
Central Elementary School.
Cascade Middle School.
Davidson High School.
Prairie View A & M University.
Altascocita High School.
Central Academy of Excellence.
Cleveland High School.
Robert E. Lee High School.
Cheyenne South High School.
Grambling State University.
Blountsville Elementary School.
Holmes County, Mississippi. (school bus)
Prescott High School.
College of the Mainland.
Wynbrooke Elementary School.
UNC Charlotte.
Riverview Florida. (school bus)
Second Chance High School.
Carman-Ainsworth High School.
Williwaw Elementary School.
Monroe Clark Middle School.
Central Catholic High School.
Jeanette High School.
Eastern Hills High School.
DeAnza High School.
Ridgway High School.
Reginald F. Lewis High School.
Saugus High School.
Pleasantville High School.
Waukesha South High School.
Oshkosh High School.
Catholic Academy of New Haven.
Bellaire High School.
North Crowley High School.
McAuliffe Elementary School.
South Oak Cliff High School.
Texas A&M University-Commerce.
Sonora High School.
Western Illinois University.
Oxford High School.
Robb Elementary School.

When is it enough! Our children deserve better than this.
“

 

[Matata]

Peppered throughout discussions I've read about gun control is the statement that the majority of gun owners in the US favor some sort of gun control. Our respective political parties are unable to reach agreement on gun legislation. Perhaps a task force should be appointed, comprised of gun owners who can assist in drafting legislation that is palatable to all?

 

[kenny]

I don't blame the politicians.
I blame the voters.

Politicians from "those" areas know that supporting gun control is career suicide, and another politician will quickly take their place.
So I blame the voters in "those" areas.

Democracies reflect their voters.
Anxious parents waiting into the night for a DNA match because their kids can't be identified by looking at their faces is what American voters want.
I read somewhere that pro-gun politicians should be forced to view these children's coroner photos.

It's all so sickening.

It's too late to edit my post, but if I could ...

First I would apologize for this sentence in my post, "Anxious parents waiting into the night for a DNA match because their kids can't be identified by looking at their faces

is what American voters want."
I was emotional, angry and upset, but what I wrote went too far.
What I wrote is insulting to the millions of Americans who are good responsible gun owners.
Of course they don't want what I wrote.
I'm sincerely sorry.

I would replace that sentence with a reasonable explanation for why all Americans should now give up all of their guns.

The essence of the explanation might be summed up by a national campaign of billboards with explicit and graphic pics of gun victims, yes preferably children, yes especially their faces.
I suspect more than a few of the victims' parents would strongly support their child's coroner photo being used to solve the problem of what happens all too often in America today.

The importance and usefulness of such repulsive images would be reminiscent of billboards from the pro-life movement with mangled aborted late term feti, or images, from the quit-smoking campaigns, of real human lungs ravaged by cancer preferably in the operating room during surgery.
Graphic stuff that kicks people in the gut.

After the viewer is assaulted by the image they read the text, "THIS is why we can't have nice things ... guns."
Upsetting and disgusting? Yes.
Necessary? Also Yes.

Prayers and thoughts haven't worked.
Let's try this approach.

IMO the main reason people vote for pro-gun candidates is that they (and nearly all pro-gun voters) ARE good responsible gun owners who do not shoot 20 children in the face.
Somebody ELSE does that, so they say, "It's not the gun, it's the shooter".
It's the bad person, the "pure evil" that's the problem.
Why should MY rights, freedoms, and guns be taken away when I've done nothing wrong with my guns?

Because of the very nature of guns (being so handy and useful by bad people to do VERY bad things) nobody should have them, except law-enforcement.

Using these sayings, when taking away rights and privileges, is not new:
"This is why we can't have nice things."
"It's always the few bad apples that ruin it for everyone".

They are a logical, unemotional, and reasonable explanation for the huge challenge that America must face.

 

[kenny]

Oh, and arguing to keep guns because it's in the Constitution is an empty argument.
As society improves over time the Constitution gets amended to incorporate improvements, like giving the vote to women.

 

[DiaLuv]

Horrible tragedy in Texas.

Just some to my questions with no answers.

How did Ramos obtain 2 AR15’s? Background check didn’t pick on anything that would prevent him from purchasing the weapons.

What do we do:
Available mental health to all.

Gun sellers speak up if someone comes to purchase a weapon
and the individual seems off kilter.

Should semi automatic weapons that can kill many humans at
once be available to the public? I don’t think hunters hunt with
them.

If government confiscates all guns from the citizens how do they
get the guns from the criminals?

Dialuv

 

[kenny]

The Onion is supposed to be a humor site.
But what does this screen capture of The Onion's headline say about America?

...

Home

America's Finest News Source

www.theonion.com

 

[aljdewey]

We need to get RID OF GUNS, entirely, no exceptions.

Statements like these are exactly why we haven't been able to make any progress on this issue. All-or-nothing approaches are not the answer; all they do is guarantee both sides will continue to dig in and fight (literally) to the death.......of others.

I wholeheartedly agree with Missy that the answer lies in solutions that do not insist on completely abolishing gun ownership. The right to bear arms IS a right under our constitution, and it's a cornerstone item.

However, that right doesn't say arms has to include military-grade, high-capacity, automatic or semi-automatic arms. It also doesn't promise that the right will come without responsibility attached to it. These things are where gun reform efforts need to focus.

Do not ask to strip all gun ownership; instead, seek to ban legal ownership of high-capacity, military grade, automatic/semi-automatic weapons by civilians. Enact laws to make civilian gun owners legally and financially responsible for any events involving their guns. Invest in systems to ensure that lawful gun owners can register their arms without compromising their own privacy and safety.

Nothing we do as a society is going to eliminate all danger - we need to accept this and stop rejecting all proposed solutions that we think are imperfect. The goal isn't to promise no unsafe event will ever happen again - the goal is reduce the number of incidents to the best of our collective ability and to save lives. As many lives as we possibly can.

EDITED TO ADD: We should also put as much energy into supplemental efforts to increase safety. With today's technology capabilities, there shouldn't be a reason we can't prevent unauthorized individuals from entering schools. There shouldn't be any reason authorized persons can get into schools with weapons.

 

[Slickk]

My heart is heavy…I teach in a middle school. Today was a somber day. I can honestly say that none of us felt safe today.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I had to walk into my own elementary school in NYC this morning. Into the unlocked door with the lone unarmed NYPD School Safety agent.

How did he get into the school, I thought all schools had locks now and you had to be buzzed in?
My husbands has MANY guns but he shoots as a hobby and hunts.
I am for certain bans of course, and certain rules as to age and criminal history and mental health issues.

Not at all. I work in NYC which you would THINK has secured buildings, we do not.

 

[swingtime]

We need to get RID OF GUNS, entirely, no exceptions.

Statements like these are exactly why we haven't been able to make any progress on this issue. All-or-nothing approaches are not the answer; all they do is guarantee both sides will continue to dig in and fight (literally) to the death.......of others.

I wholeheartedly agree with Missy that the answer lies in solutions that do not insist on completely abolishing gun ownership. The right to bear arms IS a right under our constitution, and it's a cornerstone item.

However, that right doesn't say arms has to include military-grade, high-capacity, automatic or semi-automatic arms. It also doesn't promise that the right will come without responsibility attached to it. These things are where gun reform efforts need to focus.

Do not ask to strip all gun ownership; instead, seek to ban legal ownership of high-capacity, military grade, automatic/semi-automatic weapons by civilians. Enact laws to make civilian gun owners legally and financially responsible for any events involving their guns. Invest in systems to ensure that lawful gun owners can register their arms without compromising their own privacy and safety.

Nothing we do as a society is going to eliminate all danger - we need to accept this and stop rejecting all proposed solutions that we think are imperfect. The goal isn't to promise no unsafe event will ever happen again - the goal is reduce the number of incidents to the best of our collective ability and to save lives. As many lives as we possibly can.

EDITED TO ADD: We should also put as much energy into supplemental efforts to increase safety. With today's technology capabilities, there shouldn't be a reason we can't prevent unauthorized individuals from entering schools. There shouldn't be any reason authorized persons can get into schools with weapons.

The national organizations that are working on this, such as Everytown for Gun Safety, are not asking to abolish gun ownership. They are asking for commonsense legislation, such as HR 8 and HR 1446, both passed by the House in 2021. HR 8 would expand gun sale background checks, and HR 1446 would increase the wait time for a background check to 10 days. Most gun owners support these reasonable measures. So does roughly half the senate.

 

[LLJsmom]

I've posted my opinions on US gun ownership before, so I shall refrain from repeating the same tirade.

Get. Rid. Of. The. Guns.

New Zealand did it within a week of their last shooting. Banned. Done. Easy. OVER.

The right to bear arms refers to a barrelled shotgun with which you have to stuff gunpowder down the muzzle, in order to protect your property. In the 1700's. Not machine guns for kids to carry into schools because they're a bit angry about something, ffs.

Go ahead & bring back the barrelled shotguns & gunpowder!
THEN see how many Americans will carry one to protect themselves.
Then see how many murderes could be bother murdering people.
Then see how many people would get to LIVE THEIR LIVES......

I wanna move to New Zealand.