Another HELP me!!! I'm new to buying a diamond post

[Duke1199]

Help! I'm trying to get this purchase right and I've been researching for awhile.

1. Do all vendors provide Idealscope and ASET images? Should they be able to if I ask?
2. What are your thoughts on below:

Price:
$3,780

Gia report
2176371853

Carat Weight:
0.48
Shape:
Round
Cut:
Super Ideal
Color:
D
Clarity:
IF
Measurements:
5.17 x 5.13 x 3.01
Table:
61.0%
Depth:
58.4%
Crown angle 33.0 deg
Pavilion angle: 40.8 deg
Symmetry:
Excellent
Polish:
Excellent
Girdle:
Thin - Medium
Culet:
None
Fluorescence:
None

Am I leaving anything out?!?!,

 

[Gypsy]

Why on earth are you geting a D IF?

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Duke1199,

Welcome to the forum. You will find a number of strong opinions about the 'best' way to shop for and select diamonds here. But, almost universally, you will see that the light performance of the diamond (as Gypsy's post states) is critical in the selection process.

For top light performance the recommended angles are going to fall in the following ranges (a compilation of Prosumer and Trade advice over the years):

Table - 54- 57%
Crown Angle - 34- 35 degrees
Pavilion Angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
Depth - 60 - 62% - some have no problem up to about 62.4%
Girdle - Stick to thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc... - no extremes.
Polish and Symmetry - Excellent is sought after, but very good and above will often perform well

*Configurations depend on each other: If crown and pavilion angles are both shallow (near or at CA 34- PA 40.6) or both steep (near or at CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular stone. This is where ASET and Idealscope, eyeballs, and trusted vendor opinions can matter.

Armed with that knowledge - you can evaluate the proportions on your selected diamond for yourself:

Table:
61.0%
Depth:
58.4%
Crown angle 33.0 deg
Pavilion angle: 40.8 deg

...

Am I leaving anything out?!?!,

 

[Duke1199]

So a D IF combination is a poor combination? I'm not following...

I am looking for diamonds mined in Canada and brilliant earth seems to be the only online vendor selling them

Thanks!!!!

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Let me clarify a bit for you on my earlier post. The numbers I gave you are "top-cut" guidelines that will match your quest for the highest level in terms of color and clarity - this stone is NOT bad.

But, a 61 Table with a shallow crown (33) –is going to have limited fire in some lighting environments.

I LOVE your quest for a D IF stone – the rarest of the rare in color and clarity - so you should absolutely match it in your quest for cut.

The configuration you describe is graded a GIA X (but on the borderline for VG) and predicted as an AGS 1-2, so while your color and clarity choices are as good as you can get in terms of quality, the most important component to optical beauty (cut) is not quite there.

My recommendation, if you wish to stay with the D IF quality, is keep the same demand for ‘the best’ when you look for cut and you will find an incredible stone.

Best wishes.

 

[drk14]

So a D IF combination is a poor combination? I'm not following...

I think the conventional wisdom here is that unless you are purposefully looking to pay a huge price premium to have a diamond with the rarest color/clarity combination (D/IF), you can get a cheaper, bigger, and/or more brilliant diamond by looking at lower color and clarity grades. Most clarity issues can only be seen under a 10X loupe, for grades as low as SI1, or even SI2 in some cases. Similarly, when viewing a diamond from the top down (like you would when seeing it mounted in a ring), there is little to no noticeable difference between colors down to around G/H (and in some cases even lower), if the diamond is well cut.

Thus, for all intents and purposes, a G/SI1 may look to your eyes exactly the same as a D/IF, but would be much more economical (allowing you to buy a larger diamond if you want). So, unless you deliberatly wish to allocate a large part of your budget towards the privilege of owning a D/IF, then this is not a good combination to shop for.

 

[ecf8503]

Agree with everyone else! I think IF is overkill unless you are doing it for a "mind-clean" reason. You WILL NOT see inclusions up to about VS2 (rarely), SI1 (usually), and SI2 (sometimes). The microscopic inclusions have no bearing on the light performance of the stone (99% of the time in the clarities we are referring to) - that is determined by angles of cutting - and THAT is what you need to be concentrating on.

That said, I have a D color (lovely icy white color), a few G's (beautiful neutral white), and some I/J (an ever so slightly warmer white). They are all beautiful, and I love them for what they are individually. Is a D beautiful? To my eye, yes. Is it worth much more than an ideally cut I color? Not to me. I love the subtle softness of the I/J stones too. So color becomes subjective - i.e. what do YOUR eyes prefer? A warmer white or a cooler white? And are you willing to shell out much more money for that particular shade of white, especially when color itself has nothing to do with the light performance (sparkle!!!!) of the stone?

Concentrate on cut. Period. There's nothing sadder than buying "the best" (D/IF) and getting less than absolutely perfect optics. A non-ideal cut stone will face up smaller and warmer than an ideal cut stone of the same carat weight. Meaning you could buy this stone, and your friend's stone of similar weight will look bigger and whiter than yours!

 

[Mike714321]

Duke,
I was just in your shoes not too long ago. I spent a lot of time reading the forums, in particular, posts from buyers like you and I just starting out and reading the replies of the forum members. My take on it is as follows:

It's a GIA triple Ex. Good start. HCA tool shows it a 1.6, so it's not a toss out yet. I don't know this to be a fact, but I'd think it's probably a great cut because it's 0.48ct, they didn't try and save weight to make it a 0.50ct stone but only pictures will clarify.

The next step, which you already asked about, were vendors giving pictures. You'll want as much as you can get! Idealscope, ASET, hearts, arrows, real pictures, the more the better. With that said... vendors are different. If this is a Blue Nile diamond, you won't get any pictures at all unless you somehow find this diamond listed at another seller that can try to get you pictures. B2C Jewels was helpful in getting me pictures but there were some that they simply couldn't get all the pictures. James Allen will get you any pictures you want I believe, same as Good old Gold and Whiteflash. I think pretty much all vendors will try and get you as much as they can except Blue Nile.

Once you get as many pictures as you can, post them here on PS and many knowledgeable members can help you out.

As others have mentioned, you're shopping for an D colored IF diamond. As I learned, everything is a trade-off in diamonds when it comes to your budget. I started out looking for IF, VVS1, VVS2 diamonds in the D,E, and F colors and quickly realized I wanted more size so I had to compromise on clarity and color for my budget. As mentioned, around here, CUT IS KING and it makes sense to me, angles, optics, light...

If you're set on the D and IF diamonds that's great. With a max budget in mind, your only "variable" left to change/adjust should be size assuming you're getting an AGS0 or GIA triple Excellent. Request as many pictures as you can get your hands on, ASET and Idealscope being the most important I think, and post them, the PS forum members will help you out! Good luck!

Mike

EDIT** I checked out the brilliant earth website. I honestly haven't run across the seller's name while reading PS but perhaps others can chime in. I see they have a live chat, during their hours I'd ask if they can get you the pictures you want and go from there. I did a quick search and it seems as though your diamond is the biggest carat weight in the criteria you're looking for with a $3800 max. If pictures come back not great, then go to the next one that's Triple Ex or AGS0. If it's too small, maybe look an E colored, or a VVS1 D, see what's available. Otherwise, maybe there's other sellers with Canadian stones. If you strike out there, I'd open it up to non-Canadian as it seems (from all the YouTube and Netflix movies I've recently watched on diamonds) that there are now a lot tighter regulations on diamonds and where they come from if that's what you're worried about.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5117966-0.52-carat-Round-diamond-E-color-VVS1-clarity.aspx

 

[WinkHPD]

So a D IF combination is a poor combination? I'm not following...

I am looking for diamonds mined in Canada and brilliant earth seems to be the only online vendor selling them

Thanks!!!!

Duke, as you have been told, a lot of people do not believe you should pay the premium for a D-IF.

Me personally, I have always loved having the best of the best when I can afford it, and am always paying extra for the platinum plated version of what ever I am buying for myself.

When I first got into the business I would not sell anything below an H except under protest, but over the years I found that many people, when given a "blind taste test" end up choosing something in the H-I-J colors when choosing amongst several stones on a slotted tray and knowing nothing about the diamonds.

For many years now I have been convinced that cutting matters far more than color or clarity. When I couple that with what I have seen people choose when they no nothing about the paper of the diamond but only choose with their eyes, I no longer give credence that the D-IF is the best combination of color and clarity.

For many people, it will be, but for others, their eyes will like something with a touch or even more than a touch of warmth to the color of their diamond. For those whose eyes prefer the D and their minds prefer the IF I am happy to assist them, for they will be spending much more for the same size diamond as those who prefer lower colors and do not care about clarity so long as they can not see the inclusions.

So here is my take.

If you want D-IF for what ever YOUR reason is, you should have it. However, be sure that it is also well cut and beautiful. What a shame it would be to have a lifeless lump of crystallized carbon that was also a D-IF.

The people here are fantastic and will help you to find what ever it is you are looking for. Tighten up your seat belt and enjoy the ride, and oh, don't buy any thing without the priveledge of seeing it an returning it if YOUR eyes are not absolutely delighted when they see it!

Wink

 

[Gypsy]

If it's for you and you want the rarity of a D IF... that's one thing.

But if you are under the impression that an eyeclean F Vs2 is somehow going to be yellow ( ), or included or bad ( ) . Then that's just lack of knowledge and... frankly a waste of money.

If it's a cultural thing... like your lady is from a culture that values high color and clarity.... Then consider a nice F VS1.

A .48 carat diamond is a small one for a ring at around or under .5 mm. And what you are paying for that stone you could EASILY get a LOVELY stone around .70 and 5.7mm carat diamond that will be super white, super clear... and fabulously cut. And that would be a much better investment if you are buying for someone else. As the visual impact will be significantly greater.

Put on hold and get ideal scopes:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-301526
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-306746
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.67-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-330321

That's why I asked about the D IF. Many of the posters that come on here asking for very high color and clarity aren't very knowledgeable and in their fear they go for high color and clarity and spend a love of money on things they don't need. If you want a super white, clean and sparkly stone the three above will be just as lovely as ANY D IF out there. And significantly nicer than one that is poorly cut (not that yours is, but the low crown will limit it's performance a bit).

Also James Allen provides you with a 60 day return policy and they pay shipping both ways. And they have an upgrade policy. And they will have a gemologist examine the stones for you.

 

[Lorelei]

So a D IF combination is a poor combination? I'm not following...

I am looking for diamonds mined in Canada and brilliant earth seems to be the only online vendor selling them

Thanks!!!!

Duke, as you have been told, a lot of people do not believe you should pay the premium for a D-IF.

Me personally, I have always loved having the best of the best when I can afford it, and am always paying extra for the platinum plated version of what ever I am buying for myself.

When I first got into the business I would not sell anything below an H except under protest, but over the years I found that many people, when given a "blind taste test" end up choosing something in the H-I-J colors when choosing amongst several stones on a slotted tray and knowing nothing about the diamonds.

For many years now I have been convinced that cutting matters far more than color or clarity. When I couple that with what I have seen people choose when they no nothing about the paper of the diamond but only choose with their eyes, I no longer give credence that the D-IF is the best combination of color and clarity.

For many people, it will be, but for others, their eyes will like something with a touch or even more than a touch of warmth to the color of their diamond. For those whose eyes prefer the D and their minds prefer the IF I am happy to assist them, for they will be spending much more for the same size diamond as those who prefer lower colors and do not care about clarity so long as they can not see the inclusions.

So here is my take.

If you want D-IF for what ever YOUR reason is, you should have it. However, be sure that it is also well cut and beautiful. What a shame it would be to have a lifeless lump of crystallized carbon that was also a D-IF.

The people here are fantastic and will help you to find what ever it is you are looking for. Tighten up your seat belt and enjoy the ride, and oh, don't buy any thing without the priveledge of seeing it an returning it if YOUR eyes are not absolutely delighted when they see it!

Wink

Wink, you always put things so beautifully!

Hi Duke and welcome!

I would just like to add to the above, if you prefer D IF/VVS for whatever reason, that is absolutely fine and there is no reason in the world to deviate from that if that is what you want. Get the cut right and you will have a very rare and beautiful gem. Some do prefer colourless IF/VVS diamonds for purity and or cultural reasons, or as Wink mentions, you just want ' the best', this isn't something we wish to deter people from buying if that is their choice. To maximize bang for the buck, which is also what some prefer then certainly you can go to FGH colour and VS or even SI clarity if verified eye clean without visual sacrifice if the cut is superb, but it depends on the buyer. Unless you are one of those colour sensitive souls that can see warmth in an F colour, but that is rare! With the stone in question, you can do better, it is rather shallow with a large table, it's unlikely you will get the best performance out of it.

If you still prefer to stick to D IF etc, then it is our job to help you find the best cut stone possible within those parameters!

 

[Duke1199]

Thank you all for your advice!

It is very important that the diamond be mined from Canada. I' don't know where else to look for such except brilliant earth.com but I will certainly keep looking.

I am much for quality over quantity but thank you for shedding light on this. This is much harder than I ever thought.

 

[Gypsy]

Can you tell us WHY it's important the diamond be mined in Canada?

 

[Duke1199]

Canadian heritage/pride
Conflict free