Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, Canad

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Hi all,

There is so much information available online about buying diamonds, and I've tried to synthesize it all, but am still struggling between buying online or in-person.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about my criteria for the ring, and I wanted to a) get a sense of what to expect (in terms of brilliance), and b) get some help in figuring out where to buy it.

Note, homework done has included:
1) Reading the prep materials and tutorials on this site
2) General online research on the 4 C's
3) A discreet trip with my GF to try and figure out her preferences
4) In-person visits to independent jewelers and chains to examine diamonds in person

Diamond specs:
1) 1.75-1.92 ct brilliant round
2) VS2-VS1
3) I-G colour
4) Excellent (or ideal) cut

My questions are:
1) What are experiences with buying online? Obviously with these specs, I could end up getting the bottom or top of each individual range in terms of quality. What are ways that people have mitigated this risk?
2) The jeweller who will be making the setting has recommended against buying online. She also didn't say that I should buy from her (although she did speak to some advantages), but her general point was that I should see the diamond in person before I buy. As mentioned above, the reason for this is because buying online won't differentiate from the top of the H range to the bottom of the H range.
3) I'm located in Toronto, are there recommendations for local places where I could see the loose diamonds?

Also, I have a vision in my head for design, but can't really find pictures online -- I'm looking for designs with a channel setting (princess cut diamonds to be flush) with narrow walls, and a single center stone set in a slightly higher setting. Let me know if you have seen this anywhere please!

I really appreciate the help everyone!

 

[Newname123]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

1) What are experiences with buying online? Obviously with these specs, I could end up getting the bottom or top of each individual range in terms of quality. What are ways that people have mitigated this risk?
2) The jeweller who will be making the setting has recommended against buying online. She also didn't say that I should buy from her (although she did speak to some advantages), but her general point was that I should see the diamond in person before I buy. As mentioned above, the reason for this is because buying online won't differentiate from the top of the H range to the bottom of the H range.
3) I'm located in Toronto, are there recommendations for local places where I could see the loose diamonds?

Also, I have a vision in my head for design, but can't really find pictures online -- I'm looking for designs with a channel setting (princess cut diamonds to be flush) with narrow walls, and a single center stone set in a slightly higher setting. Let me know if you have seen this anywhere please!

I really appreciate the help everyone!

Hey there, I am also from Canada and am going through the same process as you, so I thought I would share what I have learned so far. By no means am I an expert, I have been doing research for a few weeks though and am just about to make my up my mind and purchase the ring for my girlfriend.

1. I do not have an experience yet buying online, but from what I have read around, it is very simple and safe. I went in to all kinds of stores, high end Tiffany, to low end mall retailer, and in between, spence. I looked at what they had to offer and compared the prices online. You are saving a significant amount online than in person. You can easily up the quality, clarity and size while saving thousands. I also found out that the local stores do not have graded diamonds (AGS/GIA), so who knows how they are deciding on that H colour.

2.The local jeweller will of course say to not buy online. They make their money through sales, any online sale compared to in store, theirs or not, is a win for local jewellers and their prices. Of course it would be nice to see the diamond in person, but that's the drawback from shopping online. You can ask the online store to take pictures for you, or to look at them in person, but take it with a grain of salt. I asked two different online retailers, and they both come back saying the more expensive one shines brighter than the rest...(which I guess it should, all other things equal). Some people will say that you can buy it, then return it easily, but from Canada it just makes it that much more of a hassle. I would make sure you are confident before purchasing. Talk to the people who have the diamond in possession and have them go over it with you.

3. Spence has loose diamonds to go have a look at, tell them you're brand new at this and they'll give you a nice education lesson where you can see loose diamonds up close and under a microscope. They're pretty great, and I would have bought from them had I not gone home and done my research.

For your setting, just go to a few online stores and open up the 24/7 chat and tell them what you are looking for, they will have suggestions for you. That is how I found my setting.

It has not been easy, but I too have settled on an online store for both the diamond and setting, I have pretty high hopes after everything I read. Good Luck!

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

You will be able to get the best stone, for the best price online. There is almost no way a B&M vendor can compete with online margins / selection.

Here's an idea of what a stone with a top-notch cut, possessing the specs you've mentioned would look like from a couple of well-regarded online vendors:

1.715ct, H, VS2
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.715-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104068964005

1.80ct, H, VS2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11882/

1.922ct, I, SI2 (says eye-clean and looks great in the video)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.922-i-si2-round-diamond-ags-104069785003

2.00ct, G, VS1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11901/

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Thanks for the reply folks, that definitely helps me lean toward buying online. I had been looking at prices there and B&M obviously were much higher.

In terms of online, I've taken a look at all the recommended sites, but am curious, are they all apples to apples comparable? BlueNile is very different than Good Old Gold.

From a shipping to Canada and potentially returning, are there some that are preferable to others? I'll essentially want my jeweller to start designing this week, so I'm hoping for a next day / shipping site.

Thanks!!

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

As a follow up -- I think I'm going to go with Whiteflash, there are enough positive reviews and they have a great selection. For those in the 'know', and better at understanding specifications than I, what are your thoughts on these gems:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3059432.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063794.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3095471.htm

 

[Magpie4426]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

I like the third one due to the bit of extra size

I don't think you can go too far wrong with an ACA

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Thanks Magpie!

When I do the search again on Whiteflash, it looks like it isn't available, but the link still works. Haha, I hope I'm not shooting myself in the foot by putting my diamond searches on here.

I took at look at the JA premium cuts and found this great diamond. Pricing wise it seems great, but will an 'I' have a yellowish tinge to it? I don't want any shading in the stone, but am torn between the G-I range:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.81-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-265952

 

[SHOWBIZ]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Hello my fellow Canucks, I recently bought a diamond online due to the same shopping experiences I came across locally. Everywhere I went or called, they did not have GIA/AGS diamonds available. And the rare ones that did, they charged an obscene amount for it. Not to mention the diamond proportions were not very good even though they were graded GIA "excellent" cuts (HCA > 4+).

I ended up buying from James Allen because they seemed to have the best return policy (60 days), which I needed since I wasn't sure how quickly I would receive the diamond and I also had to wait a few weeks for a setting that I ordered locally to arrive. Everything went very smoothly, James Allen allowed me to put a few diamonds on hold while they had a gemologist take a look at each one and send me idealscope images to show how each diamond performed. I ended up receiving the diamond via FedEx within 48 hours, and just to make sure I took it to a local shop to be appraised and everything checked out.

Yes, it is more hassle for us Canadians to pay to return ship for any returns/exchanges, but I think if you do the proper research upfront and check out the idealscope images, then you can be pretty sure you're getting a great diamond!

The local stores will try to scare you into not buying online by saying things like they won't service your ring, or you have to see the diamond in person, etc, but given the cost savings and the access to much better quality diamonds online, I wouldn't hesitate to buy online again and would recommend it to any of my fellow Canadians.

 

[SHOWBIZ]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

FWIW, when I got my diamond appraised to basically confirm all my diamond specs, the appraiser let me take a look at their "master set" of diamonds that they use to determine what color a diamond is. I couldn't see any color in the master diamonds until about the H diamond. So my guess is yes you might see a yellow tinge in the I color diamond. Depending on the setting you want, I color might be fine especially if all you see is the top of the diamond. If your setting is very open and you can see the sides of the diamond then you might want a higher color grade.

I think that James Allen one looks good and I think the idealscope image is fine, but will leave that to the experts here to confirm.

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

That's great, thanks Showbiz!!

When you ordered online, did you end up using the credit card or the wire price? Was there an additional 'Pricescope' discount that you were able to get included?

I was worried about a slight yellow tinge because it won't be a closed design -- I'm specifically designing it to showcase the profile of the diamond in addition to the surface -- so it sounds like I may need to compromise size for colour.

What was your process for review -- you communicated with James Allen and told them which ones you wanted the jeweler to look at and had them send the idealscope images?

 

[SHOWBIZ]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

When you ordered online, did you end up using the credit card or the wire price? Was there an additional 'Pricescope' discount that you were able to get included?

I paid by credit card and yes all you have to do is mention that you are a Pricescope member and ask them for the PS discounted price. I got $180 off which was about 3.3% off but as mentioned in other threads the discount from JA seems to vary by stone.

I was worried about a slight yellow tinge because it won't be a closed design -- I'm specifically designing it to showcase the profile of the diamond in addition to the surface -- so it sounds like I may need to compromise size for colour.

As you can tell by my post count, I am very new to all this myself so take what I say with a grain of salt. So for myself if I was looking for a diamond to fit a setting that has an open design that shows the side of the stone as well, I would look for G color (maybe H color would be ok) for best color/value combo.

What was your process for review -- you communicated with James Allen and told them which ones you wanted the jeweler to look at and had them send the idealscope images?

If you find something on James Allen you like, all you have to do is click the "chat now" button (or call in) and tell the rep which diamond you are interested in and any questions about it you may have. They will have a gemologist take a look and get back to you in about a week. I asked them to check the stone for performance, if it was eye clean (I also asked if there were any black marks on the stone cause its my personal preference for something cleaner), any issues/concerns with the clarity, idealscope images, etc. They will ask you to pick out two other diamonds so that if the original one you picked out turns out to be no good, you'll have a couple other options to select from. While they go through this process, they will put all three diamonds on hold for you so it won't be released back for sale to the public until after you've had time to review the feedback from the gemologist.

Whiteflash can also put diamonds on hold (for 24 hours) if you have any questions, and already have idealscope images on their site which is great! Though I didn't like how they only had a top view static photo of the diamond, they were very helpful to me and when I asked about a particular stone. They were able to send me a photo of the diamond from a different angle (which revealed a black mark that couldn't be seen on the original photo).

From what I've been able to gather, it seems like most online vendors are quite accommodating if you have any questions for them, don't be afraid to ask via online chat, email, or phone.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

1) What are experiences with buying online? Obviously with these specs, I could end up getting the bottom or top of each individual range in terms of quality. What are ways that people have mitigated this risk?
Pricescope has tons of testimonials of buying online. I think buying online is fantastic with great prices especially with the vendors recommended here. You can get a better bang for your buck if you are comfortable buying pre-loved from a member here.

2) The jeweller who will be making the setting has recommended against buying online. She also didn't say that I should buy from her (although she did speak to some advantages), but her general point was that I should see the diamond in person before I buy. As mentioned above, the reason for this is because buying online won't differentiate from the top of the H range to the bottom of the H range.
Who are you planning to use in Toronto? I think I have scoped out and checked out most of the custom jewelers.

3) I'm located in Toronto, are there recommendations for local places where I could see the loose diamonds?
If you want to try out a local seller, try Aaron Kelman from The Diamond Shopper. He posts here occasionally as well.

Alternatively, try the typical big stores like Tiffany, Cartier, Birks. I always suggest going to Yorkdale Mall where you can find all those stores in one location. There is also Raffi Jewelery that carries Tacori, Simon G, etc for you to check it out. It's one of the nicer jewelery stores in Toronto.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Some setting options that I think meets what you are looking for ...

Love the tapered look ...



Tiffany


Flyer Set


Not Loving This One

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

CharmyPoo -- thank you for the details! I think I've seen your posts on RFD, but it's great to see your notes in this haven of diamond experts.

Based on the feedback here, and having spent some time educating myself on how to look at the diamonds online (Thanks Showbiz!) I think I've decided to go ahead with buying online -- like Showbiz -- I like the idea of James Allen due to the comprehensive return policy and huge selection of diamonds. I've actually gone through and created a catalog of all the diamonds that I think fit my dimensions and will go through the list again tomorrow before looking at some loose diamonds in person.

The jewelry shops that I'm considering are:
1) Mark Lash Jewelers
2) Linda Penwarden

I've really enjoyed my interaction with both, but was able to sit down with Linda (the designer) on my first encounter and I think she understands my requirements and design better.

Thank you for posting the images - that is a huge help. I agree, the tapered looks amazing, and I really like the tiffany as well. I'm going to take a look at the ring that we tried on in person that she really liked and see how they compare. Out of curiosity, where did you find the images? I feel like I've scoured the net looking for images similar to those but was unable to find anything.

Thanks!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

You can find me on RFD. I have other custom jewelers for you to check out. I found three others that I rather like recently.

I have another girl I liked better than the two other people you posted. I checked out her work recently.

Also, did you see this place ..
http://www.fortunes.com
(sample - [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/3-01-h-vs2-rb-split-shank-halo-t198291.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/3-01-h-vs2-rb-split-shank-halo-t198291.html[/URL])

But since you are buying your diamond online in the US, why not just make the whole ring in the US?

I just used google but can't remember the exact words I used. Also, the above pics aren't all princess cuts - some are aschers.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

One of my favorite vendors on here High Performance Diamonds did this version of that setting recently for another customer:





[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/trade-members-show-us-your-one-favorite-piece-a-little-fun.200034/page-5']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/trade-members-show-us-your-one-favorite-piece-a-little-fun.200034/page-5[/URL]


I'd definitely get a quote from them.

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

I like the idea of dealing with and working with someone in person -- that's the only reason I wouldn't look for the actual ring to be made elsewhere.

These pictures are great and will really help me finalize my ring design.

CharmyPoo -- I'll take a look at Fortunes as well -- the work on their website seems great.

A general question for anyone that supplied their stone when they had the setting made -- did the shop charge you a 'setting' fee that was based on carat size? If so, what was the amount?

Did any of your experiences include a warranty that if one of the prongs breaks and the center stone falls out that they would replace it? Even if they didn't supply it? Presumably they should because the physical security of the stone is entirely dependent on the setting.

 

[SHOWBIZ]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

A general question for anyone that supplied their stone when they had the setting made -- did the shop charge you a 'setting' fee that was based on carat size? If so, what was the amount?

Did any of your experiences include a warranty that if one of the prongs breaks and the center stone falls out that they would replace it? Even if they didn't supply it? Presumably they should because the physical security of the stone is entirely dependent on the setting.

For the setting fee, I called around to a few places and they would always ask me what size the diamond was, so yes I believe they will charge you based on the carat size and may charge extra depending on how much work they have to do to set the stone. Mine was pretty straight forward and under 1ct, so I was getting quotes between $50-$100.

You'll have to check with each store as they will have different policies. Some places I called said they would provide lifetime service for the ring but would not be responsible for the diamond. And other places said they would not offer any warranty for the ring if I supply my own diamond.

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Thanks Showbiz -- that helps.

I really like the place where I am thinking about getting the setting done, but the setting fee seems high at $800/carat, so for a ~1.9ct diamond, that is almost $1500 on top of the setting. Unless the setting estimate comes in considerably lower, this might knock this shop off the short-list as I've seen total estimates for final settings around $2500.

 

[chrono]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

I really like the place where I am thinking about getting the setting done, but the setting fee seems high at $800/carat, so for a ~1.9ct diamond, that is almost $1500 on top of the setting. Unless the setting estimate comes in considerably lower, this might knock this shop off the short-list as I've seen total estimates for final settings around $2500.

Seriously? Perhaps the vendor doesn't want the job so he/she is purposely quoting you a ridiculous price in hopes that you would go with a different vendor. The most I've ever paid to get a diamond set is $100/ct.

 

[SHOWBIZ]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

The highest quote for setting I came across was about $400 but that was from the highest end shop in the entire city. I was shocked when they quoted me $400, so I'm speechless at your quote for $1500! Must be their not so subtle way of telling you to bugger off since you're not buying the diamond from them.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Um. I have never paid a setting fee for a custom made setting - they just made it for me and put my stone in it.

For places where I provided both the setting and the stone, there was a fee to set the stone ... which is usually $25 - $100 depending on the complexity of the setting.

I don't bother with store replacements for lost center stones. That's what Jewelry Insurance is for.

 

[John P]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

...setting fee seems high at $800/carat...

I wonder if this setter's cape ever gets tangled in his burrs. Does his visor fit over or under his crown? Does he set his scepter down to work, or seat the diamond one-handed?

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

I like the idea of dealing with and working with someone in person -- that's the only reason I wouldn't look for the actual ring to be made elsewhere.

These pictures are great and will really help me finalize my ring design.

CharmyPoo -- I'll take a look at Fortunes as well -- the work on their website seems great.

A general question for anyone that supplied their stone when they had the setting made -- did the shop charge you a 'setting' fee that was based on carat size? If so, what was the amount?

Did any of your experiences include a warranty that if one of the prongs breaks and the center stone falls out that they would replace it? Even if they didn't supply it? Presumably they should because the physical security of the stone is entirely dependent on the setting.

I have to jump in here as a jeweler. I could make you a perfect gold ring and your wife could wear it in a chlorinated pool a few times and it will have the alloys eaten away leaving a porous spongy looking prong at the microscopic level. Of course, that will not be seen until the prong breaks. How could this be my responsibility?

It can not. Nor can I guarantee that she will not trip leaving the store and break her diamond against the door handle of her car.
(It happened to one of my clients about 30 years ago. Thank goodness I had asked her to arrange insurance for the very expensive diamond prior to her taking possession of it.)

This is why you should always have insurance for your jewelry, especially if you are spending a significant amount on the center diamond. Once you leave the store, the jeweler can have no control over how the ring is worn and cared for.

Wink

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

My parting thoughts for you ..

#1 Setting fee by carat is not normal for a custom piece.
#2 If your selected jeweler is charging you to set an outside diamond in a custom made piece, I will suggest you looking elsewhere for someone who specializes in making custom settings versus just a local jeweler. Look up Sin Kim.

 

[blackprophet]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

My parting thoughts for you ..

#1 Setting fee by carat is not normal for a custom piece.
#2 If your selected jeweler is charging you to set an outside diamond in a custom made piece, I will suggest you looking elsewhere for someone who specializes in making custom settings versus just a local jeweler. Look up Sin Kim.

Charmy, you like Sin Kim? Awesome! She does great work.
Although she does charge extra if you don't source the diamond from her. But it is a relatively small amount.

The other I was going to suggest is Leif Benner. I had my FI ring made by him. And my FI loves it. If you do a search for his name on here you will see some rings similar to what you want done by him. He is in the distillery District. Sin Kim was a close second on my list of choices.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

My parting thoughts for you ..

#1 Setting fee by carat is not normal for a custom piece.
#2 If your selected jeweler is charging you to set an outside diamond in a custom made piece, I will suggest you looking elsewhere for someone who specializes in making custom settings versus just a local jeweler. Look up Sin Kim.

I totally agree with this.

If you are commissioning a custom setting, there should not be an additional setting fee. Whatever their quote it should include the cost of setting the stone into it. I've only been charged a setting fee when I've bought either a stock setting or taken a setting and a stone to be set by a third party jeweler (not the one I bought either the stone or the setting from). And even in those cases I've NEVER been charged more than 100 a carat.

As for insurance while your stone is being set. You purchase a custom setting-- say a 1500-6000 setting. It's not good business sense for them to insure a diamond worth many thousands for the duration. Most jewelers will not insure a stone that was not purchased from them. It's pretty standard in the industry.

You need your own insurance. I've had my own stone reset twice. Both times I had my own insurance and the vendor did not insure my diamond during the setting process.

Additionally, diamond rings can be surprisingly fragile. That setting style with the taper you are considering is all custom cut traps and carre and baguettes. You bang one of those just right, you could be looking at an expensive replacement. You need the insurance even for regular wear and tear.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Charmy, you like Sin Kim? Awesome! She does great work.
Although she does charge extra if you don't source the diamond from her. But it is a relatively small amount.

The other I was going to suggest is Leif Benner. I had my FI ring made by him. And my FI loves it. If you do a search for his name on here you will see some rings similar to what you want done by him. He is in the distillery District. Sin Kim was a close second on my list of choices.

It depends on the style of work. I am more into delicate rings and fine pave - I was surprised that Sin Kim's work is pretty delicate and refined. She also has some nice designs. I also want to check out http://www.studio1098customjewellery.com/....

Leif's work is great and has fantastic customer service. His work is less delicate and the pave shows a bit more metal. My friend got a ring back from him with black prongs (chemicals) which is a bit strange for someone who seems to be detailed oriented. Not a big deal as it is easily fixed.

 

[thinkoutsidethebox]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Thanks for all the advice guys -- I would tend to agree based on everything that I've heard that the setting fee makes the economics of the ring at that particular shop untenable.

I'll take a look at Sin Kim's designs and I'll definitely get back to everyone re: where I end up .

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Another 'Help Me Buy A Diamond' Thread - from Toronto, C

Which shop were you looking at?