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Another example of why PS vendors are great

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AnitaT

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I just got off the phone with someone who is NOT a PS vendor and rather than dwell on my current state of frustration/bruised feelings, I am going to talk about why PS vendors have are great. Sorry if I sound upset, but I feel upset.

As some of you know, I am trying to find a center stone for my ering. This search is entering its 3rd month now because my bf and I have been trying to learn about stones. We have been inching along, but have developed some general parameters. Thanks to PS, we are a long way from when we started and can talk about cut, clarity and color. We can understand there is a difference between AGS and GIA certificates and value the importance of cut. We have also really appreciated the amount of information that fabulous vendors like GOG and Whiteflash provide on their stones. I have talked to some folks at GOG and can tell you they are PATIENT, informative, provide guidance without pressure and -- for good measure -- let me mention patient again.

My recent experience made me only highlighted the PS difference. I was told AGS is an easier grader than GIA. Now, I understand that each lab has its strengths and weaknesses and that some prefer one over the other. However, I was put off by the person''s manner. Furthermore, I was asked why I didn''t like some of the stones which this other vendor had shown me. I felt like I was basically being made to defend my choices. During this conversation, I felt trust diminishing rather growing. Anyway, I was talking through what I noticed on one of the certificates, and mentioned crown angles. Oh boy. The person on the other line then asked me, "do you even know what crown angles are?" I couldn''t rattle off a good explanation, so the person just sort of chuckled and explained how I am not going to notice all these details I have listed once it is mounted and such. Um, this is a big purchase for my bf and me and we are being careful. This conversation made me feel like I was being talked down to instead of being part of a discussion and that was not cool.

Okay, so I guess I did dwell on this less-than-positive experience. I apologize for venting, but I figured fellow PSers would understand my sense of frustration.
 

ButterBean

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Hi AnitaT,
You aren''t the only one who''s had an experience like that. I found myself in a discussin where I was trying to explain that the CUT grade of a stone was NOT "round." He kept telling me that round was the cut. I left shaking my head and vowing never to buy from someone like that.
Butterbean
 

Ellen

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I''m sorry Anita, I think most of us have been there. But just look at it this way, you know enough now to get a great stone, and you know enough now to know who NOT to buy from.
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Can''t wait to see what you get!!
 

diamondseeker2006

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Date: 5/28/2008 9:39:54 PM
Author: Ellen
I''m sorry Anita, I think most of us have been there. But just look at it this way, you know enough now to get a great stone, and you know enough now to know who NOT to buy from.
2.gif


Can''t wait to see what you get!!
Ditto!!! Good luck with your search!!!
 

AnitaT

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Date: 5/28/2008 9:02:34 PM
Author:AnitaT

My recent experience only highlighted the PS difference.
Sorry, I just noticed this sentence didn''t read how I wanted it to.

Thank you Butterbean, Ellen and DS for your kind words. You all provided a verbal hug and atta girl...which I sort of needed. DS, I was struck by your signature and feel it wraps it up nicely, "when in doubt...don''t."

Okay, I think I know what I need to do which is to tell this other person to not waste any more of their time on my search (since I don''t care to do business with them) and I will go somewhere else.

Hey, would someone mind explaining the significance of crown angles to me? Just in case it should come up again.
20.gif
 

Kaleigh

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Date: 5/28/2008 9:46:27 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 5/28/2008 9:39:54 PM
Author: Ellen
I''m sorry Anita, I think most of us have been there. But just look at it this way, you know enough now to get a great stone, and you know enough now to know who NOT to buy from.
2.gif


Can''t wait to see what you get!!
Ditto!!! Good luck with your search!!!
Thritto. Best of luck Anita. You''ve learned a great deal here, so am looking forward to seeing what you end up buying.
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strmrdr

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Date: 5/28/2008 9:59:39 PM
Author: AnitaT

Date: 5/28/2008 9:02:34 PM
Author:AnitaT

My recent experience only highlighted the PS difference.
Sorry, I just noticed this sentence didn''t read how I wanted it to.

Thank you Butterbean, Ellen and DS for your kind words. You all provided a verbal hug and atta girl...which I sort of needed. DS, I was struck by your signature and feel it wraps it up nicely, ''when in doubt...don''t.''

Okay, I think I know what I need to do which is to tell this other person to not waste any more of their time on my search (since I don''t care to do business with them) and I will go somewhere else.

Hey, would someone mind explaining the significance of crown angles to me? Just in case it should come up again.
20.gif
for next time:
The crown angle is the angle of the bezel facets.
The crown and pavilion angles have to compliment each other for optimal light return in a diamond.
That wll make em go huh?
Or do what I do just hang up/walk off.
 

AnitaT

Shiny_Rock
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Dec 13, 2007
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Date: 5/28/2008 10:25:17 PM
Author: strmrdr
for next time:
The crown angle is the angle of the bezel facets.
The crown and pavilion angles have to compliment each other for optimal light return in a diamond.
That wll make em go huh?
Or do what I do just hang up/walk off.
Awesome! And, you are right about ending the call earlier.
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 5/28/2008 9:59:39 PM
Author: AnitaT

Hey, would someone mind explaining the significance of crown angles to me? Just in case it should come up again.
20.gif
Anita, this page should help...
 

niceice

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Date: 5/28/2008 9:02:34 PM
Author:AnitaT
Anyway, I was talking through what I noticed on one of the certificates, and mentioned crown angles. Oh boy. The person on the other line then asked me, ''do you even know what crown angles are?'' I couldn''t rattle off a good explanation, so the person just sort of chuckled and explained how I am not going to notice all these details I have listed once it is mounted and such.

Hello Anita,

I''m glad to see that you have discovered PS to be the wonderful resource that it is... Perhaps you should turn your local retailer on to this resource, perhaps they might learn something! Isn''t it amazing that new people come to the forum and frequently post the same basic question, i.e. "what is fluorescence?" and several regular contributors to the forum will patiently answer the question as if it has never been posted before? I don''t think I''ve ever seen the concern regarding "lab report doesn''t state the crown angle?" replied to with "would you know what a crown angle was if you saw it?" Wow! What an @ss
20.gif


Okay, so Strmrdr provided an excellent description, but sometimes a visual is helpful, here is a graphic of a side profile of a round brilliant cut diamond with the sections labeled for reference. The "bezel" facets are the eight kite shaped facets that appear on the upper half of the diamond. The crown angle is determined by measuring the eight facets (usually by computerized proportions analysis - next time ask the clerk for a Sarin, OGI, or Helium report which will provide the detail missing from the lab report and leave him feeling inadequate) and then taking the average of the eight measurements which is then stated as the crown angle on more recent GIA and AGS lab reports. You should request a Sarin / OGI / Helium report even when the average crown or pavilion angle is stated on the lab report because it is important to know the high and low range that determine the average crown angle to determine whether the spread is acceptable or not. An average crown angle of 34.5 degrees could be the average of something desirable such as a tight range of say 34.3 - 34.8 degrees or something more broad and less desirable such as 33.5 - 35.5 degrees.

rbcd_side_niceice_graphic.jpg
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
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Here is a top down view of a round brilliant cut diamond with the parts labeled for your reference.

rbcd_crown_niceice_graphic.jpg
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
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And here is the bottom half of the diamond, the pavilion mains are measured to determine the average stated on current GIA and AGS lab reports as the Pavilion Angle. The same concept of obtaining a Sarin / OGI / Helium report to determine the high and low measurements that make up the average crown angle measurement holds true for the pavilion angle measurement. And yes, you can tell the difference between a diamond which has been cut within a tighter range of crown and pavilion angles to one which has not with a little focus - perhaps the seller you called upon has never seen a truly well cut diamond!

rbcd_pavilion_niceice_graphic.jpg
 

AnitaT

Shiny_Rock
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And, this is why PS rocks! Ira Z, Mr. Gray and Strmrdr, thank you for your explanations. Mr. Gray, I am a visual learner so I truly appreciate the graphics.
 

AnitaT

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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On a different note, anyone ever "broken -up" with a diamond vendor before? Since he came recommended through someone I respect, I feel like I should be polite and professional with him despite our last interaction.
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niceice

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Date: 5/29/2008 12:22:06 PM
Author: AnitaT
On a different note, anyone ever ''broken -up'' with a diamond vendor before? Since he came recommended through someone I respect, I feel like I should be polite and professional with him despite our last interaction.
20.gif

I wouldn''t bother "breaking up" with the dealer, I would simply thank your friend for the referral and if asked, just say something like the two of you didn''t seem to "Gel" or something to that effect... The fact is that while you are buying a diamond, you are also shopping for a relationship. I''ve bought my last five cars from one sales person at one dealership and he remembers who I am when he runs into me in the service department, he checks to see whether the people in service are taking care of me, funny thing, I''ll probably drive down to Oregon to buy my next car from him even though I''ve moved to the Seattle area and I''ll be in and out within 30 minutes.

BTW: "Todd" or "NiceIce" works fine for addressing me Anita... "Mr. Gray" is my Dad (oh man, he''d kill me for saying that!)
 

gwendolyn

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Aug 4, 2007
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6,770
Love the graphics! I''ve not had it broken down quite that well for me before either, so thank you, Todd!
 

AnitaT

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 5/29/2008 1:11:20 PM
Author: niceice

BTW: ''Todd'' or ''NiceIce'' works fine for addressing me Anita... ''Mr. Gray'' is my Dad (oh man, he''d kill me for saying that!)
Thanks Todd!
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swingirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
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Okay, now the obvious question. Why are you not finding what you want from our favorite PS vendors? They have access to just about anything you''d want and can find it if they don''t have it in their safe? Are you looking for something very particular and difficult to come by?
 

NeverEndingUpgrade

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Date: 5/29/2008 1:11:20 PM
Author: niceice

Date: 5/29/2008 12:22:06 PM
Author: AnitaT
On a different note, anyone ever ''broken -up'' with a diamond vendor before? Since he came recommended through someone I respect, I feel like I should be polite and professional with him despite our last interaction.
20.gif

I wouldn''t bother ''breaking up'' with the dealer, I would simply thank your friend for the referral and if asked, just say something like the two of you didn''t seem to ''Gel'' or something to that effect... The fact is that while you are buying a diamond, you are also shopping for a relationship. I''ve bought my last five cars from one sales person at one dealership and he remembers who I am when he runs into me in the service department, he checks to see whether the people in service are taking care of me, funny thing, I''ll probably drive down to Oregon to buy my next car from him even though I''ve moved to the Seattle area and I''ll be in and out within 30 minutes.

BTW: ''Todd'' or ''NiceIce'' works fine for addressing me Anita... ''Mr. Gray'' is my Dad (oh man, he''d kill me for saying that!)
Or you could say that the guy was a condescending jerk.
 

AnitaT

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
362
NeverEndingUpgrade-- LOL, thanks! I was talking to another friend about the incident and explained it as situation of styles not meshing. Her response was, "well, then your money and his wallet are not going to mesh either." It made me smile. But, on to other things!


Date: 5/29/2008 4:24:09 PM
Author: swingirl
Are you looking for something very particular and difficult to come by?

Swingirl, LOL, I have been starting to wonder if I have put together some wacky combination. Maybe you all can give me some feedback and suggestions? I think this calls for a new thread!
 
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