Another Aussie-hello

[krusty900]

Cheers @sledge will do. Thanks for all your help/thoughts.

 

[krusty900]

Just wondering @sledge if you have any idea how often whiteflash update their stones?tryring to get back to my original budget of around 6k for the diamond and have changed to a 18k white gold setting. So will be looking at .90 carat g stones in si1 I think.

 

[Nardster]

No worries, it's good to have enough time to do this stuff.

I haven't personally seen the hearts and arrows with my own eyes (had to use a scope) when I visited stores, but I wasn't looking for it at the time (Was more interested in just looking at the color and inclusion differences). I will look for it the next time I visit though.

I'll also visit London at the end of the month and hopefully get the chance to see CBI diamonds in one of their affiliated stores there.

I'll follow up on both occasions on this thread.

My concern, besides the price, is whether or not a super ideal loses too much of its brilliance (can the arrows become blurred?) when you don't clean them regularly (say every month or so) it'll purely depend on whether or not my partner wears it often I suppose (I dont think she's into wearing rings)

Just to follow up on this,

I visited Jogia Diamonds after having to speak with Yogesh over the phone and I have to say that I was quite surprised with how confident he was about the Firetrace proportion charts (and the device itself).

I brought my own ASET scope (if you're not used to being criticised, I recommend not bringing one). I checked different kinds of diamonds and I could certainly tell that some of them had distinct transparent 'holes' straight through, no blue, pink/red, or green colors, and when I pointed them out to him, I was shrugged off with the response that their firetrace device does the analysis for the customer's advantage.

Personally, I would be more skeptical with the Ideal scope images for Jogia Diamonds, the subtle hints of lighter red could actually be a fully transparent portion I didn't realise this until I saw it for myself.

I suppose it was because of my inexperience with viewing diamonds which is fair enough. I even pointed out to him that I was shaking out of nervousness to break the tension as I don't mind making a bit of self deprecating humour, no dice.

I was able to pick out the best light performing out of the hybrids (thank god) but I was told that it was basically wasted time. I kinda feel bad for doing that but at the same time I learned from it so yay me .

I guess to summarise, in my opinion (I may be wrong) the Firetrace chart is not a very useful tool as it fails to account for areas of the diamond which are transparent when viewing under an ASET scope. Or, I'm really bad at using the scope itself and I will improve

Off to London to meet up with Celine from Best Diamonds UK!

Cheers

 

[krusty900]

Thanks for the reply @Nardster interesting indeed. I’m pretty certain I’ll be going down the white flash route. Good luck in London!

 

[Nardster]

No worries @krusty900, I'll just provide my experience with London's Diamond House here for consistency/ease of reference.

I organised an appointment with Celine a few weeks in advance as she obtains the CBI diamonds from HPD and she only visits London at short intervals (super lucky she had time for us). I must say that she made it quite easy for my partner to decide (I brought her along because I wanted her to choose instead of me blindly selecting).

I also should preface that I gave her the option to go with one of JogiaDiamonds hybrid selection but she chose this instead, albeit probably due to Celine's saleswoman skills . I'm happy that she chose a CBI diamond (hurray for potential upgrade plans).

But now begins the difficulty of setting an outsourced diamond...

To those that wonder, the price she charged is similar to HPD's website, i think I got charged a bit more for using a credit card but the removal of VAT should easily make up for it.

Feel free to ask me anything regarding this as I decided to quickly post this. Alot of plana over the weekend and I might forget.

Now to find a jeweller to set this on a ring..

 

[krusty900]

Sorry super late here. Could you tell. The difference between the Jogia and cbi diamonds?

 

[sledge]

Hey @krusty900, maybe this article will help you determine the difference between GIA XXX and super ideal diamonds. Be sure to read the entire article and watch the videos.

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-fire-1568.htm

In short, I do think there is a noticeable difference. FYI, CBI has a very strong reputation on here for wowing people because of their superior cut. I suspect it wasn't only great salesmanship that closed that deal, but lots of sparkles.

 

[krusty900]

Thanks @sledge , wowsers I have learnt a lot over the last month. Still facing the same dilemma though as I don’t think my partner would notice any difference, especially with nothing to compare it too. I can appreciate the ideals but can also appreciate the ease of buying/returning (if necessary) in the same country. Argh. I don’t think I’m any closer haha

 

[krusty900]

Thanks for getting back to me @Nardster
Congratulations on finding a diamond. Just wondering how noticeable you found the found the difference between the ones in London vs Jogia?

 

[sledge]

Thanks @sledge , wowsers I have learnt a lot over the last month. Still facing the same dilemma though as I don’t think my partner would notice any difference, especially with nothing to compare it too. I can appreciate the ideals but can also appreciate the ease of buying/returning (if necessary) in the same country. Argh. I don’t think I’m any closer haha

So what I'm reading here is you have an issue buying outside Australia. And that's okay. We all have different comfort levels. But if this is your real concern we can try to address it logically.

I might have mentioned before that Holloway Diamonds is located there. The owner, Garry, is one of the founders of this site and also the inventor of the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA) and Idealscope. Suffice it to say, he knows diamonds and how important cut is. If I were buying locally or considering buying online via a drop shipper (Blue Nile and similar) then I would absolutely talk with him as he can help you tremendously.

https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/diamond-tutorial

With your insecurity of online purchasing I would NOT recommend a drop shipper as i feel you need customer service that is above average to make this comfortable.

Any of the super ideal vendors will ship overseas, have the best diamonds and will have return policies that makes your life easy. Most importantly because you get AGS certs and all performance images and videos up front it allows a layer of transparency that is largely defunct with online retailers that dont own their own inventory and drop shipping from another country.

Let us know where you need to be comfort wise so we can help you. What specific concerns do you have buying outside Australia?

 

[krusty900]

@sledge, I don’t think it’s necessary a comfort thing. I absolutely love buying on line for lots of things. I have been in touch with wf and cbi and they are/have been super friendly and helpful. I’m sure it’s possible to return things to the states if that was required,but can’t imagine it’s a cheap process with proper insurance Etc.
I can’t find a setting we both really like on wf and cbi have one but not 100% sold on it either.

I have emailed Holloway diamonds this evening.

My main concern is that my partner will be impressed no matter what I get so am unsure I really need a super ideal as I don’t think it will bother her and she will be happy with anything.

That Jogia diamond I posted earlier seemed like a good compromise. Good colour and clarity and reasonable angles. It’s hard when everyone here is into the best of the best which is great, but I guess something that isn’t the absolute best will be fine in my case,especially if it is above average that’s what I am trying to ascertain with that Jogia stone, it’s obviously not ideal, but how good is it?not ideal,not crap,but where abouts in the scheme of things. I know there are better available, but not sure I need the absolute best
Hope that makes sense.

 

[sledge]

That makes sense @krusty900.

I'm on my mobile, can you repost the data on the Jogia stone? Last I saw a review on them someone noted they thought their images were color enhanced or something to that affect. I just scanned over it to be honest. I'd be open to Jogia. At least they provide some performance images. Do they have settings, etc you like so you get a whole package?

I will admit I'm very competitive, so if I'm spending $15k I want the best and most for that dollar. I value performance (cut) above all else so I can get carried away. For me, it's not just the end result but how and why it's awesome too. I'm also into fast cars. Throwing on nitrous will likely yield a fast quarter mile result. But using turbos or superchargers with right gears, boost levels, etc will do the same and allow everyday smiles too. Nitrous is cheaper by the way, well until something breaks, lol. Guess which camp I'm in?

 

[krusty900]

Thanks @sledge here are the links to the info they provide if you could take an expert look and then put those into whether a non diamond expert with no other diamonds to compare to would have a nice sparkly stone
I can’t say how much I and no doubt many others appreciate your efforts.
https://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/analysis/SS3200-gia.pdf

https://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/diamonds/analysis.php?code=SS3200-is.jpg

https://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/diamonds/analysis.php?code=SS3200.jpg

https://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/diamonds/analysis.php?code=SS3200-anim

https://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/diamonds/analysis.php?code=SS3200-ft.jpg

They also have a possible setting and could pay by credit card for some out it which would help timing wise as funds not all got yet.

 

[LBeezy34]

Welcome aboard mate. Let us know how we can help.

A few things that might get you started:

• Understand there are really 5 C's: cut, color, clarity, carat weight & cost (budget)
• When your cost (budget) is fixed then you will have to adjust up/down the other 4 C's to make it all work. This is known as a zero sum game.
• Most people here consider cut to be THE most important aspect of the traditional 4 C's.
• If you don't already know, try to understand the color sensitivity of you and your partner. Higher colors cost more money so if you prefer a little tint, or simply aren't color sensitive than you can go down in color and boost another quality (like clarity, carat weight, etc).
  
• Diamond color is graded from the sides, as tint/yellow is harder to see on the face of the diamond. Therefore, if you go with a traditional setting where the pavilion (bottom portion) of the of diamond is covered then you likely can cheat the color thing a little more.
• While many people get hung up on carat weight, it's really not the best way to judge a stone's size. The reasoning is simple as you use this formula to arrive at carat weight (on a round diamond): length x width x depth x 0.061 = carat weight. Consequently, you are better served to look at length & width dimensions and compare against other stones, as part of the carat weight is always contained in depth, which does nothing for making a diamond look bigger.
• It takes about 0.20mm for the normal human eye to see a difference in size. This is roughly 1/128th of an inch. While noticeable when compared side to side, it won't be a "wow, this is sooo much bigger" difference.
• Weights like 1ct, 1.5ct, 2ct, etc are known as "magic weights" and you will pay premiums as you hit those weights. There is even some (smaller) premiums associated with hitting smaller magic weights like 0.5ct and 0.75ct.
  
• Because of the above, you will find that some diamonds are cut in a (poor) method that hits those magic weights because they are more profitable. If you are lucky enough to find a stone that is slightly under a magic weight you will typically find it's a great value for the money. For instance, a 0.92ct stone of same characteristics would be of no considerable size difference than a 1 carat stone but will be much cheaper because it's less weight and the cost per carat weight is less as well (no premium for the magic carat weight).
• While buying online can seem risky and overwhelming, it is actually a very good way to get the best bang for the buck. You usually have access to more stock, higher quality stones and for less money. With some help from our members, you can rest assured you will find a great performing stone for budgets of all sizes.

There are more things, but this is a quick scrub list that should get you going in the right direction. Hope it helps kick start the process.

I've never seen this formula: lengthx width x depth x 0.061 = carat weight.
The sum is a whole number and not a 0.X number. Is there a chart for this?

 

[LBeezy34]

Hi @LetLoveRule it certainly is interesting and am enjoying the research.
I think after some more researching I could be looking at this ring
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...295-solitaire-engagement-ring-4030.htm#size=6

But now looking at something around the 0.8 carat not the 1. (Cost and partner preference after trying some rings on today, although it is difficult as she has a small finger so can’t try on anything that actually fits)

What size is the ring size? My gf is a size J (4.75) and we looked at various stone sizes and found that a 0.7-0.8 carat was perfect for her finger size. She thought a 0.9 was too big for her.

Cheaper then for you to get super ideal cut, higher colour and clarity (if mind clean is important to you or her).

 

[LBeezy34]

So many Aussies in here. G'day from Melbourne!

 

[sledge]

I've never seen this formula: lengthx width x depth x 0.061 = carat weight.
The sum is a whole number and not a 0.X number. Is there a chart for this?

There are no charts that I know about. The formula is an approximation of weight. If you think about the way a diamond is shaped, the crown & pavilion angles, girdle thicknesses and depths would play into the final determination. We'd need a much more advanced formula to calculate an exact weight. If you seek an exact weight, it's easier to place the stone on a set of scales.

Below is a copy of the formula from GIA's book.

FYI, when I wrote my initial post you referenced, it wasn't to identify a method to determine exact weight, it was to prove a point that carat weight involves looking at depth too. Many people get hung up on the fact a stone is 0.77ct and another is 0.81ct; therefore, the obvious winner is the heavier stone because it will be soooo much bigger. Reality is you probably can't even see a noticeable difference in the two stones when you look at the L & W dimensions, and account that part of the weight gets ate up in the additional depth (or D dimension).

 

[krusty900]

@LBeezy34 size I 1/2 (4.5) we kind of had the same thought and I figured between .75 and 1 would be the sweet spot. but in reality she would have zero problems with a 1 carat stone

Looking forward to your thoughts @sledge to those links above

 

[krusty900]

So I waited too long and now this diamond is reserved
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4039674.htm
Just wondering what people’s thoughts are?was there anything I missed in thinking this wasn’t a bad buy? @sledge ?