shape
carat
color
clarity

Am I getting Ripped Off?

dmdfool

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
15
1.23 carrot
VS2 Clairity
Very Good Cut (PRINCESS)
I grade color
I can't confirm, but when I last looked at the certificate it was from hrd. Could have been HKD? I don't remember, I will get back to you on the actual certificate.

The guy is a diamond wholesaler and he does things direct w/o going through a retail chain.

Cost of stone $7200, cost with setting a lucida setting with side diamonds, refer to sample photo


http://i41.tinypic.com/16gkc5k.jpg

$8567

Spoke already with one guy from the internet, his name is Carl Romaner, very nice guy from www.bestdiamondsearch.com and he is suggesting that the diamond I am getting for the price is a ripoff and for the same price I can get GIA certified with D/E/F color along with excellent cut at the same price(before taxes $8500).

I am terrified of even thinking about buying a diamond online in fear that someone would switch up the diamonds or do something shady, but I also don't want to get ripped off.

What are my options? I am so stressed over this, any expert/experienced advise would be totally appreciated
 
If it does not have a GIA/AGS report, you are almost certainly paying too much.

I believe the sample ring you posted is from Blue Nile? Not to be picky, but it isn't really Lucida style.
 
The photo I used as a sample isn't an exact copy, but something similar to what I saw...Here is another picture

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/RobbinsBros/0362184_T?$normimg$

except the diamonds are more on the outside of the ring, not embedded the way in this photo. I showed this photo so you can see the lucida looking style of the ring.

But speaking strictly about the diamond, am I getting a good price? How much would I be overpaying for that diamond at the $7200 price?

Is there any way of ordering diamonds alone with a guaranteeing that you are getting what you pay for?
 
If it is an EGL report... likely a couple thousand.
 
What's a realistic diamond I should be looking at if I'm limiting myself to these two criteria's:

1.20-1.30 carrot
Princess
&
Excellent Cut

$7000 for just the diamond(leaving me $1500 to get a ring/setting)
 
Only consider diamonds graded by GIA or AGS.
Other lab lie about color and clarity grades so their diamonds SEEM to be cheaper than those graded by GIA or AGS.

Next GIA does not grade the cut of princesses.
AGS does.

Get a princess that AGS has graded as AGS 0, their top grade.
They command a premium but IMO are worth it.

Buy from a reputable seller like goodoldgold, whiteflash, jamesallen and you won't get glass, you'll get a diamond that matches the grading report.
Next you can carry it into any pawn shop or jeweler and have them verify it's a real diamond.
Get a 10x loupe to look at the inclusions.
Make sure they match the inclusion plot on the report.
 
Neither EGL nor GIA assigns a cut grade to a princess.

If it's not one of the well known labs assume the grade is badly inflated. EGL is known for inconsistent grading but anyone can put a sign on their desk and call themselves a lab. Sometimes they're good, more often they're the jeweler's brother-in-law and they practically make stuff up.

You can get a decent idea of what such a stone might cost by using the diamond finder to show you all I VS2 princesses of that approximate weight. Be sure to click the OTHER box next to labs to eliminate AGS and GIA. I did that and got a range of $3372 to $4147. These are all EGL stones which is probably a step over the jeweler's in-laws.

Setting costs are hard to judge because two settings that look all but identical can have very different workmanship and stones, but sometimes you can find your exact setting on jeweler's sites or e-bay. If not you can at least get a rough idea. Yours does not look like a $3000+ setting to me but it's hard to say.
 
dmdfool|1377632417|3510849 said:
What's a realistic diamond I should be looking at if I'm limiting myself to these two criteria's:

1.20-1.30 carrot
Princess
&
Excellent Cut

$7000 for just the diamond(leaving me $1500 to get a ring/setting)

I agree with JulieN... and I will go ahead and say that it's my opinion you are being ripped off... ::)

Good news though -- you found PS!!! :appl:
I think this diamond looks very nice! Much better color and GIA grading!
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.20-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-211958

I'd put it on hold ASAP. :))
 
Coming from someone with experience on this _DO NOT BUY A DIAMOND THAT DOESN'T COME WITH AN AGL/GIA REPORT!!! That is your insurance. Appraisals and certs meaning nothing without a GIA/ AGL report (dont' get me started on EGL).

I would buy online for several reasons:
- There is a reason why some venders online are trusted. THey have made their reputation from their customer service and online business practices.
-If you stay with a company like WF, JA, IDJ, BN etc places that have a CONSTANT online presense you will be fine purchasing from them. They all have good return policeys so you can buy a diamond online and they verify with an appraisal if you want piece of mind. -Not to be rude but your 1ct purchase is a drop in the bucket to what they do in an average day. If they were going to rip you off and that got out- trust me their business would suffer as online purchases are their bread and butter.
 
SB621|1377633118|3510863 said:
Coming from someone with experience on this _DO NOT BUY A DIAMOND THAT DOESN'T COME WITH AN AGL/GIA REPORT!!! That is your insurance. Appraisals and certs meaning nothing without a GIA/ AGL report (dont' get me started on EGL).

SB, I've never seen it stated like this, but it is VERY good advice! GIA/AGS = insurance = peace of mind. =)
 
If you go back to the diamond finder not many come up, but here's one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2933482.htm?source=pricescope

This is better cut than the one you picked out, likely less yellow (because it was graded so by AGS) and less included (ditto).

Buying online has its hassles but I think we can assume Whiteflash is more forthright than the guys who showed you your first diamond. Switching out is very rare among established jewelers. The people who try it get caught fairly quickly. In any case your first step after getting the piece should be to head to an independent appraiser.

Also, the guy you're working with is not a wholesaler. Wholesalers don't sell to us mortals. That's another strike against him.
 
Are you saying that if I don't get GIA/AGL....and let's say I insure the ring and it gets stolen, my non GIA/AGL certificate means nothing? Could you elaborate on that, sorry for the stupid question.

I want to feel comfortable getting my diamond online...I just find it hard to deal with the anxiety and fear of feeling that you are giving a lot of trust to these online wholesalers without even being able to see the diamond in person. It's something I am going to have to sit and think on it.
 
dmdfool|1377633848|3510873 said:
Are you saying that if I don't get GIA/AGL....and let's say I insure the ring and it gets stolen, my non GIA/AGL certificate means nothing? Could you elaborate on that, sorry for the stupid question.

I want to feel comfortable getting my diamond online...I just find it hard to deal with the anxiety and fear of feeling that you are giving a lot of trust to these online wholesalers without even being able to see the diamond in person. It's something I am going to have to sit and think on it.


I second the recommendation CR posted.
That 1.21 I VS1 is not only graded the top cut grade by AGS it is a branded A Cut Above from Whiteflash.

Buy that diamond.

Whiteflash is very reputable and sells some of the best-cut diamonds anywhere.
They have attractive prices and great return and trade up policies.
I've bought from them.
I've met their manager twice at PS parties.

You can see the diamond in person.
Pay for it.
Get it.
Examine it, and even bring it to a qualified independent appraiser who does not sell diamonds for an opinion.
Do NOT bring it to a jeweler who has a conflict of interest and will HATE any diamond they didn't sell.
If you are not happy return it for a full refund within the return period.

Please stop considering an EGL diamond.
You will almost certainly get ripped off which appears to be your biggest fear based on the title of this thread.

BTW, these are not "online wholesalers".
Anyone selling to the public but calling themselves a wholesaler is a liar.
 
It is safe to assume that GIA and AGS would grade that first diamond much lower than an I/VS2. If the diamond is stolen the insurance company will not replace it with a GIA/AGS certified diamond. They would replace it with an no-name lab cert, and it wouldn't be an I/VS2 either.

No name stones are always more expensive. They may seem less expensive, but once you fix the certification they are more expensive. It stands to reason. If the jeweler could get a better price by getting the GIA cert and selling it as a lower color/clarity stone they would do that. There is (almost) never any reason to buy an off-cert stone.
 
Do you guys think the body color will be apparent in an I color since it's a princess?? For the price, he could get an H or even a G... just throwing that up in the air. :bigsmile: ;)) :halo:
 
Thank you everyone for all your expertise and answers.

I have so far determined that:
-Do not buy a diamond unless it is GIA or AGS certified
-I am very likely getting ripped off
-I can order online with no risk, just get it professional appraised to make sure the diamond lives up to the certificate.
-If I insure a non GIA/AGS cert diamond, diamond gets stolen, it would get replaced with non-lab certificate diamond.
-Whiteflash & jamesallan makes superb princess cut diamonds and are highly reputable online companies

Still havn't figured out this though:
If I have a GIA/AGS cert, and then it's stolen, is it replaced with a GIA/AGS cert diamond, or will it still be a non-lab cert diamond replacement?
Where should I purchase my princess 1.20-1.30 carrot princess cut diamond for in and around $7000? is whiteflash & jamesallan my best bet for looking?
 
^^^ ...only to be proven way overpriced !! ^^^ :nono:
 
ChristineRose|1377633599|3510870 said:
If you go back to the diamond finder not many come up, but here's one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2933482.htm?source=pricescope

This is better cut than the one you picked out, likely less yellow (because it was graded so by AGS) and less included (ditto).

Buying online has its hassles but I think we can assume Whiteflash is more forthright than the guys who showed you your first diamond. Switching out is very rare among established jewelers. The people who try it get caught fairly quickly. In any case your first step after getting the piece should be to head to an independent appraiser.

Also, the guy you're working with is not a wholesaler. Wholesalers don't sell to us mortals. That's another strike against him.


I'll second this stone recommendation. I've also personally worked with WF and am looking forward to do so many times again in the future. This stone will beat the vast majority of stones princess cuts out there based on performance, it's within budget, it's an AGS0 stone and the company who would like to sell it to you offers some of the best customer services I've had. They also offer fantastic upgrade, buy back and trade up polies and have settings that fit your criteria! Above all that, there are a ton of people here who will vouch for them and their integrity. Whats not to love??? ;))

I should mention though, that stones that get recommended on this site, often get picked up by lurkers, so if you are interested, don't hesitate, call WF now and get this stone put on hold asap!
 
Your insurance will vary depending on what company you go through. My insurace will cut me a check for my GIA/ AGL graded diamonds so I can go out and pick out another one. However I think my company is different from most. I think most places will replace your diamond with something that has similar specs and yes they should take lab into consideration. So they should replace your GIA whatever princess with one that is comparable.
 
Make sure your insurer puts AGS 0 or GIA on your insurance form as well as the details of the diamond. If it is stolen they will probably come back with an inferior stone, at which point you point to the insurance certificate and tell them that their stone is not comparable. Usually they come back with something better a second time.

All of the three sellers mentioned so far would be trustworthy. They have different policies and focuses. Some are more hands on, some are a little cheaper. If you're unsure about internet buying you might want to go with someone who is willing to spend some time on the phone with you, maybe even send you two or three diamonds and let you send them back. All of these extras will ultimately raise the price. But...Whiteflash and GOG are high service dealers so you might prefer them to James Allen.

The real issue is that keeping it under $7000 and in the range 1.2-1.3 limits your choices a little. Princesses vary more than rounds and they aren't quite as popular. If you had a bit more flexibility you could pick the dealer of your choice and go from there.
 
dmdfool|1377634962|3510886 said:
Thank you everyone for all your expertise and answers.

I have so far determined that:
-Do not buy a diamond unless it is GIA or AGS certified
-I am very likely getting ripped off
-I can order online with no risk, just get it professional appraised to make sure the diamond lives up to the certificate.
-If I insure a non GIA/AGS cert diamond, diamond gets stolen, it would get replaced with non-lab certificate diamond.
-Whiteflash & jamesallan makes superb princess cut diamonds and are highly reputable online companies

Still havn't figured out this though:
If I have a GIA/AGS cert, and then it's stolen, is it replaced with a GIA/AGS cert diamond, or will it still be a non-lab cert diamond replacement?
Where should I purchase my princess 1.20-1.30 carrot princess cut diamond for in and around $7000? is whiteflash & jamesallan my best bet for looking?


Other vendors to consider...brian gavin diamonds, good old gold, high performance diamonds, and of course WF, there are more I'm sure but these come to mind.

Much of how a diamond will be replace if lost stolen or damaged will depend on the insurer, however in most cases it's 'with like kind' if you have a diamond with a lab report from GIA or AGS then it will be replaced with a stone with the same report. If you have an EGL stone then it will be replaced with an EGL stone. It's my opinion though that have the stone independently appraised is in your best interest. Often times an appraiser will see things that make your stone unique that the insurance company must consider when replacing it. For instance...not all GIA EX stones are the same, therefore I would be very upset if the insurance company attempted to replace it with any old GIA EX cut....an appraiser can help you with this. in the case that you were to purchase the ACA from WF then the insurance co would be required I believe to replace your stone with an ACA as well. It's important to know what your particular insurer is offering though.

oh....not all of JA princess cuts will be fabulous..in fact there are a lot of bad ones, so please don't assume that they are all created equal. We can help you find a good one though!
 
The vendors mentioned here have thousands of online purchases every year. If any one of them was a problem, you would read it here first. Most of us have purchased something from them and their reputation is at stake. None of us have an ulterior motive other than that we LOVE diamonds!
 
alot of gia diamonds are laser inscribed plus I wouldn't trust anyone who says he is a wholesaler there really is no such thing. You get what you pay for. I would buy on line GIA certified. The diamond matches the certificate and you can have it confirmed with a local appraiser. I believe its safer than buying from some one that says they are wholesaler they are in it to make money....
 
One of the good things about buying from these recommended vendors is ... if there is a problem you cannot resolve with them (this is rare since they all have excellent service) you can post about it here and the the world will watch how the vendor resolves it.
Many of the vendors listed post here, but Brian Gavin doesn't.

This is a very powerful consumer protection.
 
dmdfool|1377633848|3510873 said:
Are you saying that if I don't get GIA/AGL....and let's say I insure the ring and it gets stolen, my non GIA/AGL certificate means nothing? Could you elaborate on that, sorry for the stupid question.

I want to feel comfortable getting my diamond online...I just find it hard to deal with the anxiety and fear of feeling that you are giving a lot of trust to these online wholesalers without even being able to see the diamond in person. It's something I am going to have to sit and think on it.
It doesn't mean nothing. It means that the company is obligated to replace your stone with another of 'like kind and quality'. If you get an EGL-Israel graded stone, they'll replace with an EGL-Israel graded stone. That's not so bad, it is what it is and if indeed they make a real replacement then they've been fair. The problem here with some of the less popular labs is that they vary wildly in the grade. A stone that GIA would call G/SI2 might be EGL/E/VS1 or it might be EGL/G/SI2. You don't know and either do they. Lets assume you have a fabulous dealer and you get the best EGL ever. What happens at replacement? They hunt for the cheapest EGL they can find to replace it. They probably won't be buying it from your jeweler but rather someone who sells them stuff cheaply.

A comment on online sellers. Many of them are no more or less than a jeweler in someone elses' neighborhood who is trying to expand their market beyond their local reach. The Internet is the way to do that. It's entirely possible that they have a location that you can go visit and look at stones in person if you want. Most don't carry a lot of inventory but neither does your local store so it's really pretty level footing.
 
dmdfool|1377633848|3510873 said:
Are you saying that if I don't get GIA/AGL....and let's say I insure the ring and it gets stolen, my non GIA/AGL certificate means nothing? Could you elaborate on that, sorry for the stupid question.

I want to feel comfortable getting my diamond online...I just find it hard to deal with the anxiety and fear of feeling that you are giving a lot of trust to these online wholesalers without even being able to see the diamond in person. It's something I am going to have to sit and think on it.
It doesn't mean nothing. It means that the company is obligated to replace your stone with another of 'like kind and quality'. If you get an EGL-Israel graded stone, they'll replace with an EGL-Israel graded stone. That's not so bad, it is what it is and if indeed they make a real replacement then they've been fair. The problem here with some of the less popular labs is that they vary wildly in the grade. A stone that GIA would call G/SI2 might be EGL/E/VS1 or it might be EGL/G/SI2. You don't know and either do they. Lets assume you have a fabulous dealer and you get the best EGL ever. What happens at replacement? They hunt for the cheapest EGL they can find to replace it. They probably won't be buying it from your jeweler but rather someone who sells them stuff cheaply.

A comment on online sellers. Many of them are no more or less than a jeweler in someone elses' neighborhood who is trying to expand their market beyond their local reach. The Internet is the way to do that. It's entirely possible that they have a location that you can go visit and look at stones in person if you want. Most don't carry a lot of inventory but neither does your local store so it's really pretty level footing. I don't have much trouble with using FedEx or similar services to ship things around and return them if you aren't happy but if you're uncomfortable with it, on the scale of the budgets here, airplane tickets are remarkably cheap.
 
denverappraiser|1377693311|3511253 said:
<SNIP>

I don't have much trouble with using FedEx or similar services to ship things around and return them if you aren't happy but if you're uncomfortable with it, on the scale of the budgets here, airplane tickets are remarkably cheap.

I hope people did not miss this last sentence of your earlier posting since it was added on to the immediate posting above it.

I have had people both fly to me to look at gems and even a few times pay me to fly to them on special projects. (Only after thorough investigation, I do NOT have a death wish)

If you are working on a special deal, adding a few hundred dollars to it to actually see it is often a great way to boost your comfort level and to enjoy the process even more.

The archives here are full of stories of people visiting some of the vendors here, perhaps your's should soon be one of them.

Wink
 
HRD is a reputable grading report. It is the most common used in Europe. We just aren't familiar with it.

Just saying, don't discount a stone just because it is HRD.
 
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