Alton Sterling and Philandro Castile

[AGBF]

You are trying the cops here is my point. Actually no you are declaring them guilty before the full story is out.

And when you found it disgusting that police were murdered in Dallas, how was that different? Did you think they were accidentally shot?

Finding it disgusting and deciding someone is guilty are the same thing?

Actually the title of your thread is, "Coward Cop Killers" so you did find someone guilty.

Yep you got me there. Good one for you. Hiding in a building to shoot cops is not a coward.

If you want to call a spade a spade, redwood, things have devolved to the point where we are both arguing about the pettiest of petty things. I think we have had some good discussions and are above this. Maybe we should just give it a rest until the emotional upheaval has had a chance to die down. I hope you know by now that I respect you and you treat me with respect, which is all that I ask in return.

Peace!

Deb

 

[Marquise_Madness]

I had myself watch those videos thought I knew they would upset me. Honestly I don't know which one was more upsetting.
It hurts my heart to think a portion of this country live in a police state.
There's a local black lives matter rally and a friend of mine mentioned he would like to go but genuinely feels it would be unsafe for him to attend he event; being a large black man.

God bless that girlfriend and her composure. If someone shoty husband in a traffic stop, I would be screaming, crying, and flipping out. As a black woman she had the awareness to keep calm, and that probably saved at least her life, maybe her daughter's.

I don't have anything meaningful to say here. I'm very rocked by these, and I'm sad we have a presidential candidate who doesn't even think BlackLivesMatter should be a thing.

Right? I can't believe her composure. I was a puddle last night and I was crying and that was just because I found out that I have been in a traffic stop with the same officer.

I realized that could have been me.

The officer said I could have killed somebody.

I couldn't sleep last night and she's having all this composure.


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MM, that gave me the shivers. It kinda puts it in for perspective for me (I live 5,000 miles away) that it's real and not just something I see on tv at a distance. Very scary for you!

The officer said I could have killed somebody. The officer said I could have killed somebody.

That has been replaying in my head all night.

I was compliant during the traffic stop and the officer was still rude to me. I thought he was having a bad day. I googled him after (the traffic stop was in October 2014) and saw he was getting married a month later and joked to my friends and mom that I should get a cookie sheet from his wedding registry to cheer him up. I guess he wasn't in a bad mood and he was just a bad person.

It has been a big week for me. I got engaged, then the shooting happened, then the name of the officer was released. I actually lived on Fry Street, the cross street where the shooting was. The street ends then begins again where the shooting was but its around a mile down from me.

Philando was a cafeteria worker for a magnet school near me. He greeted all the kids, walked a special needs kid to class daily, and gave leftover food to kids who needed it.


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[AnnaH]

These two videos are very disturbing, but it's too early to say that the victims won't get justice.
The officer who shot Walter Garner in NC was indicted but hasn't yet gone to trial. That shooting was also filmed. Time will tell on that one.
Just from what I know, it was shocking when no one was indicted for the choke hold death in NYC.
People of privilege, whether by race, money, or influence, are definitely treated much better by our justice system.
Sure we should be concerned when any citizen is shot by police officers unnecessarily, but I'm not convinced that this situation is out of control. There are bigger problems, such as poverty, deaths by other than cops, and the number of black men in prison. For that matter, the number of people in prison period.
While our system is much better than most, there are still huge problems. Some police officers are part of the problem, but I have great respect for the vast majority. I think the bigger problems go further up the chain of authority.

 

[Marquise_Madness]

These two videos are very disturbing, but it's too early to say that the victims won't get justice.
The officer who shot Walter Garner in NC was indicted but hasn't yet gone to trial. That shooting was also filmed. Time will tell on that one.
Just from what I know, it was shocking when no one was indicted for the choke hold death in NYC.
People of privilege, whether by race, money, or influence, are definitely treated much better by our justice system.
Sure we should be concerned when any citizen is shot by police officers unnecessarily, but I'm not convinced that this situation is out of control. There are bigger problems, such as poverty, deaths by other than cops, and the number of black men in prison. For that matter, the number of people in prison period.
While our system is much better than most, there are still huge problems. Some police officers are part of the problem, but I have great respect for the vast majority. I think the bigger problems go further up the chain of authority.

We can focus on more than one issue at a time. We can be concerned about poverty and about race issues at the same time.

The same police department that shot Philando Castile racially profiled my fiancé when I was with him.

My fiancé and I were driving through Saint Anthony with the windows down and my fiancé had his hand out the window and all the sudden we saw police lights behind us, and it's state law to move to the shoulder for police cars. The officer knocked to the window and said, "hello, what is the problem?" And put the flashlight to search the car. And then the officer asked why my fiancé flagged him down. And then the officer put the light in my face and asked if I was ok.

My fiancé was pulled over for driving while black. There are 24 officers in that department. I have interacted with 2 and both have been negative. There is a problem. The other police I've interacted with in other departments have been wonderful.

The local news in my area, Kare11 has released the police scanner audio of the officer and it sounded like racial profiling to me.


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[ame]

Pic of Alton Sterling and his arrest record:

9/09/96 aggravated battery
10/31/97 2nd degree battery
1/06/98 simple battery
5/04/00 public intimidation
9/20/00 carnal knowledge of a juvenile
9/04/01 domestic violence
5/24/05 burglary of an inhabited dwelling place
7/11/05 receiving stolen things
9/12/05 burglary of inhabited dwelling place
3/17/06 simple criminal damage to property, simple robbery, simple theft, drug possession, misrepresentation during booking, simple battery, aggravated battery
4/12/06 aggravated battery, simple criminal damage to property, disturbing the peace, unauthorized entry
4/04/08 domestic abuse battery
6/03/09 resisting an officer, drug possession, receiving stolen things, possession of stolen firearm, illegal carrying of a weapon with CDs, sound reproduct without consent
10/12/09 illegal carrying of weapon, marijuana possession
8/13/15 failure to register as a sex offender
4/08/16 failure to register as a sex offender
6/14/16 ecstacy and marijuana possession


Know all the facts and wait to see all the evidence before passing judgement.

WHAT THE F@CK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH HIM BEING EXECUTED WITH NOTHING IN HIS HANDS AND HAVING TWO OFFICERS THROW HIM DOWN AND SHOOT HIM WITHOUT ANY FIGHT AT ALL? Correct answer: NOT A DAMN THING. His past has nothing to do with the present.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Based on the video Alton Sterling shouldn't be dead. .. No reason to shoot Mr. Sterling when he was laying flat on the ground..

 

[AnnaH]

Sorry, it was Walter Scott killed in NC and Garner in NY.

 

[AnnaH]

MM, your story is one I've heard too often (black people stopped by police.) Of course, we should discuss all these issues.
Compared to police shootings, it seems like there's not much focus on young black men who are shot in such huge numbers by other young black men or on the huge number of black men in prison. These are problems that, I think, are mostly due to poverty. Maybe this isn't discussed because these issues seem so overwhelming, but that's no excuse.
Here, as in most settings, we tend to discuss whatever is on the news at the time; this isn't criticizing the posters here. Still it's a valid point.

 

[ame]

MM, your story is one I've heard too often (black people stopped by police.) Of course, we should discuss all these issues.
Compared to police shootings, it seems like there's not much focus on young black men who are shot in such huge numbers by other young black men or on the huge number of black men in prison. These are problems that, I think, are mostly due to poverty. Maybe this isn't discussed because these issues seem so overwhelming, but that's no excuse.
Here, as in most settings, we tend to discuss whatever is on the news at the time; this isn't criticizing the posters here. Still it's a valid point.

That is a MASSIVE part of it.

 

[redwood66]

I am going to make yet another unpopular post.

It is ok to rant that the cop "executed" him for a broken tail light.

And then excuse murder of young people by other young people because they are poor? Murder is not ok at any time. Tell me how that is a justified reason.

God I just need to stop I guess.

 

[Dancing Fire]

MM, your story is one I've heard too often (black people stopped by police.) Of course, we should discuss all these issues.
Compared to police shootings, it seems like there's not much focus on young black men who are shot in such huge numbers by other young black men or on the huge number of black men in prison. These are problems that, I think, are mostly due to poverty. Maybe this isn't discussed because these issues seem so overwhelming, but that's no excuse.
Here, as in most settings, we tend to discuss whatever is on the news at the time; this isn't criticizing the posters here. Still it's a valid point.

That is a MASSIVE part of it.

So what is the solution?

 

[Tekate]

None of what you posted makes me feel like he should have been killed by the cops.

 

[redwood66]

I don't think anyone said he should have been killed.

 

[Tekate]

I'm sorry redwood, from what you posted, I made an inference that you were posting that since he has a serious criminal record his life was worth less than someone who has no record.

 

[redwood66]

No worries Tekate. I will never say or think that one life is worth less than another. Despite what some here may think.

 

[Marquise_Madness]

Philandro was a school worker for 12 years. He was manager of a cafeteria.

I've had experience with the officer who shot him, and the officer escalated everything. I was compliant, pleasant, didn't argue, and admitted my fault. And then he still argued how horrible I was and yelled at me. I recognized his voice in the video, and then when the name was released, my stomach was in knots. It was him. Confirmed. I'm heartbroken.


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[AnnaH]

Not sure who you are asking DF, but as I said the problem of poverty is overwhelming. The war on poverty declared, I think in the 60's, hasn't done a darn thing. We probably all have some ideas. Start a thread. I'm too exhausted.

 

[Matata]

I've had experience with the officer who shot him, and the officer escalated everything. I was compliant, pleasant, didn't argue, and admitted my fault. And then he still argued how horrible I was and yelled at me. I recognized his voice in the video, and then when the name was released, my stomach was in knots. It was him. Confirmed. I'm heartbroken. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Federal investigation has been opened. Perhaps you can share your experiences with the investigators.

 

[Marquise_Madness]

I've had experience with the officer who shot him, and the officer escalated everything. I was compliant, pleasant, didn't argue, and admitted my fault. And then he still argued how horrible I was and yelled at me. I recognized his voice in the video, and then when the name was released, my stomach was in knots. It was him. Confirmed. I'm heartbroken. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Federal investigation has been opened. Perhaps you can share your experiences with the investigators.

I'm actually contacting the media tonight anonymously. I don't know how I'll get involved in an investigation. I don't have the ticket anymore.


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[JaneSmith]

Missy, if your comment had been made by a newbie I would have assumed that person was incredibly racist.

I know from your posts here that you are an intelligent, caring person, so I'm going to assume that there is some naïveté and/or you've had some misinformation.

'All lives matter' is a racist dog whistle. Yes, all human beings matter, but when it is said like this, in the context of people raising the point that black lives matter, that black people are worthy of being thought of as human, treated as human, and that a large group of people are concerned that black people specifically are at greater risk, it erases the focus of the conversation. That is the point of 'all lives matter', to erase discourse on black lives, specifically, mattering.
It's like trying to have a conversation about female genital mutilation, and having someone change the topic to talking about how circumcision is bad and all genitals matter.
It's like talking about a Star of David on a Hillary Clinton poster being antisemitic, and having someone change the topic to talking about how all religious bigotry is harmful and all religions matter.

The large quote you put in your post is more of the same, with a side order of slut shaming. All the statistics about black people being overrepresented in prison populations and crimes are often used as a subtle way of pointing to black people and saying 'see? they are just fundamentally bad'; it's like those old racist IQ stats to show a racial inferiority.
All those stats are bad, true, but we can care about more than one thing at a time, so no need to trivialize BLM and tell everyone in BLM that they should actually put their focus on something else.
The fact that abortion stats got trotted out is unbelievable and unsurprising. Unbelievable because what does it matter that some black women got necessary health care? And how does it relate at all to black men being shot by white cops?
Unsurprising because people who want BLM to go away will use anything they can think of to deflect and obfuscate, and racism and misogyny often show up together.
It was one big red herring.

Also, "black babies killed by abortion" (!?!) Nice anti-choice rhetoric from the guy getting a doctorate in ministry. Ugh.




Redwood66 His rap sheet does not matter. LEOs are not judge, jury, and executioner. We should evaluate our society by how we deal with difficult situations, and how we treat our criminals, homeless, disabled, elderly, infirm, and needy.




Marquise_Madness, that is horrible, good luck to you.

 

[redwood66]

I have a hard time getting behind Black Lives Matter people carrying signs and shouting chants that say F*ck the Cops and Die Pigs Die, when those same people are not outraged at the black on black murder that AnnaH spoke of. It has to be both. The protest in Dallas was peaceful and only a few of those bad apples in it (shouting F the cops) but the others need to condemn that kind of voice. If they don't then their message is lost on the people they are trying to reach. I saw a couple of interviews early on last night by a couple of young black men who appeared to be part of the organizers. They were visibly shaken and only had good things to say about the cops and the protesters interactions. Those are the voices I want to hear. As someone said earlier Dallas PD appears to have good community relations for the most part.

 

[AnnaH]

Red, I didn't mean that poor people shouldn't be held accountable for crimes. Being poor is no excuse for murder, and most poor people are law abiding. But there's a reason poor communities are often so dangerous. I see that as a bigger more widespread issue than police shootings. While no one should be unnecessarily shot, of course, we need focus on other issues as well. The vast majority of officers are part of the solution, not the problem.

 

[missy]

Janesmith, If you knew me in real life not only would you know I am not incredibly racist I'm not even a little bit
racist. Though being racist is like being pregnant. You either are or you are not. I am not.

I'm sorry what I posted seemed insensitive and that I didn't care. I care very much.
I get what you are saying and I didn't mean to divert attention from the heart of the discussion.

 

[ame]

There's a police officer who is currently serving in the military (and acting as MP) and I believe also in law school who has some incredible tweets about these cases worth reading.

https://twitter.com/xTrecero/

Incredibly clear about ability, capability and intent, and where exactly it became excessive force, and explained how each case was a clear use of excessive force and inappropriate police behavior. It was really very educational. He's even got screenshots from training manuals about intent, etc. for examples.


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[JaneSmith]

Missy, I didn't think you were racist, which is why I was so surprised by your post. Based on your writings here at PS, I think you are a very nice person.



Ame, thanks for that link. Interesting.

 

[ame]

MM, your story is one I've heard too often (black people stopped by police.) Of course, we should discuss all these issues.
Compared to police shootings, it seems like there's not much focus on young black men who are shot in such huge numbers by other young black men or on the huge number of black men in prison. These are problems that, I think, are mostly due to poverty. Maybe this isn't discussed because these issues seem so overwhelming, but that's no excuse.
Here, as in most settings, we tend to discuss whatever is on the news at the time; this isn't criticizing the posters here. Still it's a valid point.

That is a MASSIVE part of it.

So what is the solution?

Lessening the income divide for one thing. Raising the minimum wage to a living wage and making education better, equalizing the playing field for all schools and children and making higher education more accessible and affordable to low income families are others.

Missy, I didn't think you were racist, which is why I was so surprised by your post. Based on your writings here at PS, I think you are a very nice person.



Ame, thanks for that link. Interesting.

I found him via a retweet...so succinct and informative--it's refreshing.

 

[stepcutnut]

I was just wondering if anyone has seen a video of the Alton Sterling shooting from a different angle than the one shown on CNN?

 

[luv2sparkle]

I feel bad for the families and I am overwhelmed by the number of people shot by police. I can't imagine being a mom worried about whether or not your sons will come home. Police who cannot use some restraint need to be let go in my opinion. They have hard job and I am sure they fear for their lives every day the go to work.


However, Alton Sterling was a convicted felon who had a weapon (illegally) on him in his pocket. He was not compliant and lying on the ground. The officers had every expectation that he could be trying to get that weapon out. While I wish that he hadn't been shot, he bears some of the responsibility for his actions in that case.

 

[redwood66]

'All lives matter' is a racist dog whistle. Yes, all human beings matter, but when it is said like this, in the context of people raising the point that black lives matter, that black people are worthy of being thought of as human, treated as human, and that a large group of people are concerned that black people specifically are at greater risk, it erases the focus of the conversation. That is the point of 'all lives matter', to erase discourse on black lives, specifically, mattering.
It's like trying to have a conversation about female genital mutilation, and having someone change the topic to talking about how circumcision is bad and all genitals matter.
It's like talking about a Star of David on a Hillary Clinton poster being antisemitic, and having someone change the topic to talking about how all religious bigotry is harmful and all religions matter.





Marquise_Madness, that is horrible, good luck to you.

By your thoughts then President Obama is whistling a racist dog whistle?

He said this yesterday:

So when people say “Black Lives Matter,” that doesn’t mean blue lives don’t matter; it just means all lives matter, but right now the big concern is the fact that the data shows black folks are more vulnerable to these kinds of incidents.

I do not believe your statement that All Lives Matter is some subversive secret meaning. I just think many people (all colors) are tired of the destruction that the BLM groups are causing supposedly to make their case. Why is it ok to stop all traffic on a major freeway that everyone uses to make a point? And don't bring up the Selma bridge because we are in a totally different time. Their shutdown of the freeway affects the whole city and its commerce. And why is it necessary to paint in red "murderers" on a police station? Peaceful demonstrations are not happening all over. And it affects their ability to have their voice heard.

 

[redwood66]

I am hearing things this morning about the Castile shooting that may change the picture. There may be recorded radio traffic before the shooting that say the officer was stopping him because he fit the description of a robber they were looking for. If that is the case and in hearing that the gun he had may have been in his lap, this changes the whole picture of that cop's mindset when he walked up to the car. And if you have not been in that position then you have no idea what you are talking about. No facts are out but this proves that we have to wait for the investigation to take its course. That is how justice works and you do not convict until the cop receives his due process. That is the law. Sensationalizing these videos and whipping up fervor GETS PEOPLE KILLED!


ETA - In his speech in Warsaw Pres. Obama could have taken the opportunity to tell people to allow due process. He has not done that ever for any of these publicized events. I wish he would and it might help stem the agitation.