Alternatives to Leon Mege?

[LeDiamant]

Dear PSers,

I’m a longtime lurker who has recently gotten engaged and I’m excited to finally have a reason to post!

My fiancé and I finally decided on a diamond (yay!!) and so I just need to decide on a setting. I’ve always really wanted a Leon Mege split claw solitaire, just like the one linked here (https://leonmege.com/portfolio/custom-work/solitaires/modern-solitaire-2ct-round-brilliant-detail) (I hope that link works). Unfortunately, he is just too far out of our price range.

The jeweler we’ve bought the diamond from has said he’d be happy to have his jewelers do a CAD and wax mold for it. However, after the time I’ve spent here on PS, I am a bit nervous to use the CAD process, people have made it sound like the finished product usually isn’t as…refined looking as something hand forged.

So, my questions is whether CAD is only a bad alternative when we’re talking about having pavé work done on a ring. Is the CAD and wax mold going to turn out fine for what I want?

My main concern is the claws not turning out as perfect as Leon’s are.

Also, to be honest, I would like to potentially talk about making the diamond sit a little bit higher than the setting in the picture. Is making an adjustment like that going to be a nightmare when we're talking about CAD? I guess I just want to make sure I know what I'm getting into.

I would so appreciate everyone’s feedback on this!

 

[telephone89]

What is your budget for the setting?

Unless you've seen and liked work your jeweler has done, tread carefully.

 

[LeDiamant]

Our budget is $1,500, which is exactly half as much as Leon costs. I know he's the absolute best, but we just can't afford him (unless he'll cut us a really great deal). So, I really just need someone who can do as close as possible. Unless everyone thinks I'll not find anyone who is close enough to Leon to make me happy.. in which case I'll probably go with a Tiffany-style setting (harder to mess up).

 

[LeDiamant]

Ok, I'll revisit them. When I first set out to find a setting I liked, I remember thinking Leon was just a mile away from everyone else I looked at. But let's see if my budget has an impact on my opinion as I take a second look. Thanks for the direction!

 

[LeDiamant]

Philips, does David Klass have a website??

 

[PintoBean]

Philips, does David Klass have a website??

I'm not Telephone89, but just wanted to chime in that David Klass has a facebook page with lots of pics of his work.

I'm also a fan of Brian Gavin Diamond's and ID Jewelry's claw prongs.

 

[LeDiamant]

Philips, does David Klass have a website??

I'm not Telephone89, but just wanted to chime in that David Klass has a facebook page with lots of pics of his work.

I'm also a fan of Brian Gavin Diamond's and ID Jewelry's claw prongs.

Ok, great. I'll revisit all of them.

I would, though, still love to hear from anyone regarding the CAD option.

 

[ame]

See what Steven Kirsch would charge.

 

[WillyDiamond]

This is a solitare setting you want........what about a jeweler bringing in the Vatche Royal Crown, I think it is U113.
Many jewelers can do it. Just a thought.

edit: Unless you have a giant rock, I am not a fan of the "double" prong look, I think it would clunky on a small stone, but don't know the stone size.

 

[LeDiamant]

This is a solitare setting you want........what about a jeweler bringing in the Vatche Royal Crown, I think it is U113.
Many jewelers can do it. Just a thought.

edit: Unless you have a giant rock, I am not a fan of the "double" prong look, I think it would clunky on a small stone, but don't know the stone size.

Yes, if I do a Tiffany style, we're planning on using the Vatche u113. I would just prefer to do the double claw. It's just so beautiful!

The stone is 2.04 cts (measures about 8.2 across) so I think the double claw should work well without too much metal. Do you think so?

edit: 8.3 mm across

 

[telephone89]

DK should be in budget, and Brilliantly engaged might eb able to swing that for cad

 

[Michael_E]

I am a bit nervous to use the CAD process, people have made it sound like the finished product usually isn’t as…refined looking as something hand forged.

So, my questions is whether CAD is only a bad alternative when we’re talking about having pavé work done on a ring. Is the CAD and wax mold going to turn out fine for what I want?

CAD and cast has three things that are drawbacks when making certain types and styles of jewelry as follows:
The first is that some things can not be properly cast, just as shown in the renders, in the finished piece. By this I mean thin sections are difficult to cast properly, particularly in metals which freeze in the mold rapidly, such as platinum and palladium. This problem can be negated by casting the piece heavy and carving/filing/smoothing it down to the proper size. In fact this is a good method for making many things that don't require the added strength of a forged piece and I'll get to that in part two.

The second thing which casting has as a drawback is that the metal is as soft as it will ever be right after casting. This is not too big a deal in white gold because it is often hard and strong enough as cast. It also tends to "age harden" over time. Platinum and palladium alloys are generally much softer after casting and in thin sections will benefit from fabricating the pieces from drawn wire and/or forged parts, as this "work hardens" the metal, making it stronger.

The third thing which is a concern with casting in platinum and palladium is porosity. Both of these metals absorb gas as they are melted and that gas can form small bubbles during casting, (as the gas tries to escape), causing microporosity. This can cause problems with strength and polishing, but can be overcome with some high tech methods that I won't go into, but you can. Check out these guys to see how high tech platinum castings are given better properties: http://www.techformcasting.com/

If you're doing pave type work and the piece has adequate strength as designed, then a cast piece can be preferable, since the increased softness makes the bead setting done in pave work much easier, (the beads press down onto the melee easily, while being work hardened at the same time). For a piece such as you've shown a fabricated piece is not only easier, but it's preferable to a cast piece. This is mostly due to the way the prongs tapered and attach at their base.

My main concern is the claws not turning out as perfect as Leon’s are.

Claws or any other style of prong tip are strictly a feature developed by filing and abrasive removal of material. That said a prong made from drawn wire will always be a little harder and stronger, so it is preferable to a cast prong, especially in platinum.

I would like to potentially talk about making the diamond sit a little bit higher than the setting in the picture. Is making an adjustment like that going to be a nightmare when we're talking about CAD?

The height of the diamond is not really dependent on anything other than your desire for where it's located, meaning tell whoever builds this how high you want it and it'll end up there.
Even when doing fabricated pieces the use of CAD is a great advantage to show you what things will look like when they are done. It also gives the fabricator the ability to measure things and get all of the parts exact prior to assembly, so is great from both your side and that of the jeweler. In fact if you DON'T get at least a very good sketch or set of CAD based images prior to the start of work, then you will really be guessing about what you'll receive.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Victor Canera is at the LM level of craftsmanship, and you can see that his single claw version is $1745, so double claw will be more. I am sure you can easily call for a quote.

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/classic-solitaire-pre-mount

The Vatche U113 is going to be more than $1500 in platinum. It should be around $1800.

There have been a couple of people here lately who have gotten the Whiteflash Tiffany repro called Knife edge solitaire. You can have the Tiffany style prongs or request claw prongs. It is only $1295 in platinum.

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-734.htm

 

[MollyMalone]

Might anyone be able to offer photos of/links to Brilliantly Engaged rings resembling the LM mounting LeDiamant linked in her first post; my iPad is woefully incompatible with BE's web site & my quick GoogleImages search yielded only BE solitaire rings in cathedral mountings.

 

[tweeter8177]

I would definitely check out Brilliantly Engaged (formally ERD). They do both CAD and hand forged. I am guessing CAD will be in your budget and they have done a ton of rings. Ask them for a quote for both and also ask them their thoughts on double claw prongs from a CAD. They can provide you more examples. Here is a thread showing their work and here is a picture from page 3 of the thread of their double claw prongs. They also have a ton of pictures of finished rings on FB, Instagram and You Tube (search Chris Anadiotis).

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/sho...rd-brilliantly-engaged-thread-t192763-60.html

 

[LeDiamant]

Michael_E, thank you so much for your reply!

If I understand correctly, there are two main issues here: (1) the main drawback to CAD/cast isdurability/security of the ring because of the way the platinum has to be formed and (2) the prongs are not going to turn out correctly or incorrectly because of the CAD/cast process, but because of the work done after the fact? and so, the prongs turning out right will only be a function of getting someone who is specifically skilled with that?

To the rest of you, thank you so much for the recommendations! I've submitted a contact request for Brilliantly Engaged, got a quote from Steven Kirsch, and will contact Victor Canera tomorrow!

I'll keep everyone posted on how everything goes!

So, so appreciate information and pictures on successful double prong settings!

 

[Michael_E]

Michael_E, thank you so much for your reply!

If I understand correctly, there are two main issues here: (1) the main drawback to CAD/cast is durability/security of the ring because of the way the platinum has to be formed and (2) the prongs are not going to turn out correctly or incorrectly because of the CAD/cast process, but because of the work done after the fact? and so, the prongs turning out right will only be a function of getting someone who is specifically skilled with that?

That's correct. As long as the casting is made correctly, the secondary finish work is what separates the good from the lower quality work, when done as a CAD/cast piece.

 

[yssie]

Michael_E, thank you so much for your reply!

If I understand correctly, there are two main issues here: (1) the main drawback to CAD/cast is durability/security of the ring because of the way the platinum has to be formed and (2) the prongs are not going to turn out correctly or incorrectly because of the CAD/cast process, but because of the work done after the fact? and so, the prongs turning out right will only be a function of getting someone who is specifically skilled with that?

That's correct. As long as the casting is made correctly, the secondary finish work is what separates the good from the lower quality work, when done as a CAD/cast piece.

I definitely agree with this.

I just want to add one thing I've noticed personally - handforging enables pre-polishing each part before assembling the final structure - it's easier to polish the insides of the ring this way. It is certainly possible to put an incredible finish - all over - on a cast piece, my earrings from Erika Winters (partly-cast) prove that, but... vendors who are able and willing to put time and effort into this pursuit of perfection will charge for it. A lot for it. And most establishments can't and won't.

There's good handforging and not-so-good handforging and good casting/finishing and not-so-good casting/finishing, and we've certainly seen examples of all four varieties here on PS! In general the vendors we often recommend fall into the "best of the best handforging" and "very good casting/finishing" categories, which is why spending time on PS leaves you with the impression that handforging results in a more refined product. We see very few examples of "best of the best" casting/finishing and very few examples of "good handforging", but all do exist, and "best of the best" will cost more than "good" regardless of method of manufacture.

Leon is, frankly, the best of the best of the best. Even amongst the masters we commonly refer new buyers to... he's in a league of his own. In your case you're looking for a basic solitaire... and to be perfectly honest, as someone who also appreciates the flowing liquidity of plain metal, I will say that sometimes simplicity is the most difficult thing to mimic! There's nothing to distract from the lines of the piece, nothing to draw attention from the quality of finish, no margin for error in capturing the desired aesthetic and executing it flawlessly.

My recommendations: call Steven Kirsch and get a quote. Also call DBL and ask David what his handforging bench might or might not be able to do. Have you looked at Mark Morell? His pricepoint is higher than your goal but he may be able to work with you, as what you're looking for is more simple than his stock designs - MWM in particular has mastered the "molten metal" look (he casts and his work is firmly in that "best of the best" category). Also reach out to David Klass - I rarely recommend him, but he's an interesting suggestion in that he's the opposite of prior recommendations (he lacks vision and will require hand-holding but by all accounts is wonderful re. re-designing and re-working a piece until a customer is perfectly happy). I have to be honest again and disagree with some previous suggestions I really don't think you're going to get the piece you're looking for from BGD, WF, IDJ, ERD/BE, etc. - they are wonderful vendors that have produced beautiful pieces, and I don't hesitate to recommend them in other threads, but in this case I know that they don't specialise in the style you're looking for, and the devil's in the details.

 

[yssie]

CAD and cast has three things that are drawbacks when making certain types and styles of jewelry as follows:
The first is that some things can not be properly cast, just as shown in the renders, in the finished piece. By this I mean thin sections are difficult to cast properly, particularly in metals which freeze in the mold rapidly, such as platinum and palladium. This problem can be negated by casting the piece heavy and carving/filing/smoothing it down to the proper size. In fact this is a good method for making many things that don't require the added strength of a forged piece and I'll get to that in part two.

The second thing which casting has as a drawback is that the metal is as soft as it will ever be right after casting. This is not too big a deal in white gold because it is often hard and strong enough as cast. It also tends to "age harden" over time. Platinum and palladium alloys are generally much softer after casting and in thin sections will benefit from fabricating the pieces from drawn wire and/or forged parts, as this "work hardens" the metal, making it stronger.

The third thing which is a concern with casting in platinum and palladium is porosity. Both of these metals absorb gas as they are melted and that gas can form small bubbles during casting, (as the gas tries to escape), causing microporosity. This can cause problems with strength and polishing, but can be overcome with some high tech methods that I won't go into, but you can. Check out these guys to see how high tech platinum castings are given better properties: http://www.techformcasting.com/

If you're doing pave type work and the piece has adequate strength as designed, then a cast piece can be preferable, since the increased softness makes the bead setting done in pave work much easier, (the beads press down onto the melee easily, while being work hardened at the same time). For a piece such as you've shown a fabricated piece is not only easier, but it's preferable to a cast piece. This is mostly due to the way the prongs tapered and attach at their base.

Thank you so much for posting this!! This was very interesting to read - I've not heard of "age hardening" over time. What does that mean, exactly? Is it something that is unique to all alloyed gold of any karat? How does wear and tear affect this "age hardening" process? Is "age hardening" a benefit attributable to platinum as well, or is it strictly alloyed gold?

Are platinum/palladium more prone to problems with over-porosity when pouring the mould than say 18k gold?

 

[tweeter8177]

Michael_E, thank you so much for your reply!

If I understand correctly, there are two main issues here: (1) the main drawback to CAD/cast is durability/security of the ring because of the way the platinum has to be formed and (2) the prongs are not going to turn out correctly or incorrectly because of the CAD/cast process, but because of the work done after the fact? and so, the prongs turning out right will only be a function of getting someone who is specifically skilled with that?

That's correct. As long as the casting is made correctly, the secondary finish work is what separates the good from the lower quality work, when done as a CAD/cast piece.

I definitely agree with this.

I just want to add one thing I've noticed personally - handforging enables pre-polishing each part before assembling the final structure - it's easier to polish the insides of the ring this way. It is certainly possible to put an incredible finish - all over - on a cast piece, my earrings from Erika Winters (partly-cast) prove that, but... vendors who are able and willing to put time and effort into this pursuit of perfection will charge for it. A lot for it. And most establishments can't and won't.

There's good handforging and not-so-good handforging and good casting/finishing and not-so-good casting/finishing, and we've certainly seen examples of all four varieties here on PS! In general the vendors we often recommend fall into the "best of the best handforging" and "very good casting/finishing" categories, which is why spending time on PS leaves you with the impression that handforging results in a more refined product. We see very few examples of "best of the best" casting/finishing and very few examples of "good handforging", but all do exist, and "best of the best" will cost more than "good" regardless of method of manufacture.

Leon is, frankly, the best of the best of the best. Even amongst the masters we commonly refer new buyers to... he's in a league of his own. In your case you're looking for a basic solitaire... and to be perfectly honest, as someone who also appreciates the flowing liquidity of plain metal, I will say that sometimes simplicity is the most difficult thing to mimic! There's nothing to distract from the lines of the piece, nothing to draw attention from the quality of finish, no margin for error in capturing the desired aesthetic and executing it flawlessly.

My recommendations: call Steven Kirsch and get a quote. Also call DBL and ask David what his handforging bench might or might not be able to do. Have you looked at Mark Morell? His pricepoint is higher than your goal but he may be able to work with you, as what you're looking for is more simple than his stock designs - MWM in particular has mastered the "molten metal" look (he casts and his work is firmly in that "best of the best" category). Also reach out to David Klass - I rarely recommend him, but he's an interesting suggestion in that he's the opposite of prior recommendations (he lacks vision and will require hand-holding but by all accounts is wonderful re. re-designing and re-working a piece until a customer is perfectly happy). I have to be honest again and disagree with some previous suggestions I really don't think you're going to get the piece you're looking for from BGD, WF, IDJ, ERD/BE, etc. - they are wonderful vendors that have produced beautiful pieces, and I don't hesitate to recommend them in other threads, but in this case I know that they don't specialise in the style you're looking for, and the devil's in the details.

Yssie - Your comments are very helpful as I am deliberating CAD vs. Handforged and various vendors as well, so thank you! I am curious on your thoughts on Mark Morell from a prong perspective given OP wants delicate claw prongs. I love his petite torchiere for a 6 prong option but my personal concern has been whether he could execute a claw prong to a level of LM or SK (or at least close). Thoughts?

 

[MollyMalone]

These are the first pics of claw prongs I came across on Mark Morrell's web site (there may be others); it's a modified Petite Torchiere, with 4 sets of split prongs, for a 2.2 ct center stone:
http://www.mwmjewelry.com/Alex%20K_2.2ct_4%20Split%20prong_Modified%20Petite%20Torchiere/index.html#Alex%20K_2.206ct_Split-prong_mod%20Petite%20Torch_sz5.75__016s.JPG

I too really admire his work, but as a general fyi, his standard shanks aren't narrow enough for some people's tastes -- price list shows the usual mm widths:
http://markmorrell.com/Prices/Index.html

 

[yssie]

Michael_E, thank you so much for your reply!

If I understand correctly, there are two main issues here: (1) the main drawback to CAD/cast is durability/security of the ring because of the way the platinum has to be formed and (2) the prongs are not going to turn out correctly or incorrectly because of the CAD/cast process, but because of the work done after the fact? and so, the prongs turning out right will only be a function of getting someone who is specifically skilled with that?

That's correct. As long as the casting is made correctly, the secondary finish work is what separates the good from the lower quality work, when done as a CAD/cast piece.

I definitely agree with this.

I just want to add one thing I've noticed personally - handforging enables pre-polishing each part before assembling the final structure - it's easier to polish the insides of the ring this way. It is certainly possible to put an incredible finish - all over - on a cast piece, my earrings from Erika Winters (partly-cast) prove that, but... vendors who are able and willing to put time and effort into this pursuit of perfection will charge for it. A lot for it. And most establishments can't and won't.

There's good handforging and not-so-good handforging and good casting/finishing and not-so-good casting/finishing, and we've certainly seen examples of all four varieties here on PS! In general the vendors we often recommend fall into the "best of the best handforging" and "very good casting/finishing" categories, which is why spending time on PS leaves you with the impression that handforging results in a more refined product. We see very few examples of "best of the best" casting/finishing and very few examples of "good handforging", but all do exist, and "best of the best" will cost more than "good" regardless of method of manufacture.

Leon is, frankly, the best of the best of the best. Even amongst the masters we commonly refer new buyers to... he's in a league of his own. In your case you're looking for a basic solitaire... and to be perfectly honest, as someone who also appreciates the flowing liquidity of plain metal, I will say that sometimes simplicity is the most difficult thing to mimic! There's nothing to distract from the lines of the piece, nothing to draw attention from the quality of finish, no margin for error in capturing the desired aesthetic and executing it flawlessly.

My recommendations: call Steven Kirsch and get a quote. Also call DBL and ask David what his handforging bench might or might not be able to do. Have you looked at Mark Morell? His pricepoint is higher than your goal but he may be able to work with you, as what you're looking for is more simple than his stock designs - MWM in particular has mastered the "molten metal" look (he casts and his work is firmly in that "best of the best" category). Also reach out to David Klass - I rarely recommend him, but he's an interesting suggestion in that he's the opposite of prior recommendations (he lacks vision and will require hand-holding but by all accounts is wonderful re. re-designing and re-working a piece until a customer is perfectly happy). I have to be honest again and disagree with some previous suggestions I really don't think you're going to get the piece you're looking for from BGD, WF, IDJ, ERD/BE, etc. - they are wonderful vendors that have produced beautiful pieces, and I don't hesitate to recommend them in other threads, but in this case I know that they don't specialise in the style you're looking for, and the devil's in the details.

Yssie - Your comments are very helpful as I am deliberating CAD vs. Handforged and various vendors as well, so thank you! I am curious on your thoughts on Mark Morell from a prong perspective given OP wants delicate claw prongs. I love his petite torchiere for a 6 prong option but my personal concern has been whether he could execute a claw prong to a level of LM or SK (or at least close). Thoughts?

Oh good point! I brought in my personal biases, and prior experiences with disconnects between 'what's being asked for' and 'what's actually desired' - and didn't even notice it!

Re. Prongs in particular...

It's been my experience that many new PSers ask for "delicate pointy claw prongs" but what they're truly looking for isn't actually related to a small-size prong; it's precision of shape and claw. Victor Canera's prongs aren't dainty in terms of size by any means, for example - they're actually on the heftier side as far as claw prongs go. But they're beautifully, evenly shaped, so the extra heft has no aesthetic downside and is in fact my strong personal preference (prongs are delicate by nature, any extra metal that imparts sturdiness is a good thing IMO!)

Here are a couple of examples of what I mean - "velociraptor" prongs vs. heftier but precisely-shaped claws. Both are lovely, and I think most buyers would be perfectly happy with either variety

"Velociraptor" prongs. Okay handforged, don't let anyone tell you this is a good idea cast!

(Leon Mege)


(Erika Winters - the prongs are very small, but there are eight of them, so... I wouldn't be horrified if a vendor cast like this).


Thicker "claw" prongs by other vendors - equally beautiful, more sturdy. The only *good* claw option if your vendor casts.

(BGD, cast)


(DBL's handforging bench, handforged)


(Victor Canera, handforged)



MWM's "heart" prongs are definitely a different style - I happen to like them but I can see how someone else might find them too prominent. I don't think his thicker, rounder prongs are a sign of lesser workmanship or ability, which is the usual assumption - I am confident he deliberately shapes them the way he does for aesthetic reasons. I'm guessing he's able (willing?) to reshape them to a customer's preference, but I very much doubt he'd be open to making them as small in size as Leon's, for example, because he wouldn't feel they're safe. Creating a *safe* smaller sized prong is definitely a benefit of handforging!

 

[Michael_E]

I don't think his thicker, rounder prongs are a sign of lesser workmanship or ability, which is the usual assumption - I am confident he deliberately shapes them the way he does for aesthetic reasons. I'm guessing he's able (willing?) to reshape them to a customer's preference, but I very much doubt he'd be open to making them as small in size as Leon's, for example, because he wouldn't feel they're safe. Creating a *safe* smaller sized prong is definitely a benefit of handforging!

Thicker, rounder prongs are done for long term durability. Prongs can either break or wear off. Thicker prongs are both less likely to break and less likely to wear off prematurely. The only thing that thin pointy claw shaped prong tips do is look good for the first year or two. The reason that people make heavier prong tips is because they don't want to deal with someone yelling at them about their diamond disappearing along with one of their prong tips. Make 'em heavy and the problem goes away.

I always get a chuckle reading the comments here about how this guy or that is the "master" of something so simple as a shaped prong tip or the way they make a bead on their pave. All these guys ARE really great, but it isn't because of the way they make prong tips. This is sort of like saying that you love Ferrari's because of their great hood ornament or better, the sound of their horn.

 

[yssie]

Some are great, some are greater, perhaps but yes indeed, prong-tips don't make the master

It's far more important to find an artist who shares your vision and is able to execute - and would enjoy executing! - on a given aesthetic... that it's "in his wheelhouse" so to speak. I won't recommend Victor Canera for a flowing metal design. I won't recommend BGD/WF for a 'dripping in pave' ornament. I won't recommend DBL for art deco. I won't recommend Erika Winters for a Harry Winston-esque halo.
Vendors have their specialties and from a consumer's perspective... those specialties become more important the more I'm paying...

 

[tweeter8177]

Michael_E, thank you so much for your reply!

If I understand correctly, there are two main issues here: (1) the main drawback to CAD/cast is durability/security of the ring because of the way the platinum has to be formed and (2) the prongs are not going to turn out correctly or incorrectly because of the CAD/cast process, but because of the work done after the fact? and so, the prongs turning out right will only be a function of getting someone who is specifically skilled with that?

That's correct. As long as the casting is made correctly, the secondary finish work is what separates the good from the lower quality work, when done as a CAD/cast piece.

I definitely agree with this.

I just want to add one thing I've noticed personally - handforging enables pre-polishing each part before assembling the final structure - it's easier to polish the insides of the ring this way. It is certainly possible to put an incredible finish - all over - on a cast piece, my earrings from Erika Winters (partly-cast) prove that, but... vendors who are able and willing to put time and effort into this pursuit of perfection will charge for it. A lot for it. And most establishments can't and won't.

There's good handforging and not-so-good handforging and good casting/finishing and not-so-good casting/finishing, and we've certainly seen examples of all four varieties here on PS! In general the vendors we often recommend fall into the "best of the best handforging" and "very good casting/finishing" categories, which is why spending time on PS leaves you with the impression that handforging results in a more refined product. We see very few examples of "best of the best" casting/finishing and very few examples of "good handforging", but all do exist, and "best of the best" will cost more than "good" regardless of method of manufacture.

Leon is, frankly, the best of the best of the best. Even amongst the masters we commonly refer new buyers to... he's in a league of his own. In your case you're looking for a basic solitaire... and to be perfectly honest, as someone who also appreciates the flowing liquidity of plain metal, I will say that sometimes simplicity is the most difficult thing to mimic! There's nothing to distract from the lines of the piece, nothing to draw attention from the quality of finish, no margin for error in capturing the desired aesthetic and executing it flawlessly.

My recommendations: call Steven Kirsch and get a quote. Also call DBL and ask David what his handforging bench might or might not be able to do. Have you looked at Mark Morell? His pricepoint is higher than your goal but he may be able to work with you, as what you're looking for is more simple than his stock designs - MWM in particular has mastered the "molten metal" look (he casts and his work is firmly in that "best of the best" category). Also reach out to David Klass - I rarely recommend him, but he's an interesting suggestion in that he's the opposite of prior recommendations (he lacks vision and will require hand-holding but by all accounts is wonderful re. re-designing and re-working a piece until a customer is perfectly happy). I have to be honest again and disagree with some previous suggestions I really don't think you're going to get the piece you're looking for from BGD, WF, IDJ, ERD/BE, etc. - they are wonderful vendors that have produced beautiful pieces, and I don't hesitate to recommend them in other threads, but in this case I know that they don't specialise in the style you're looking for, and the devil's in the details.

Yssie - Your comments are very helpful as I am deliberating CAD vs. Handforged and various vendors as well, so thank you! I am curious on your thoughts on Mark Morell from a prong perspective given OP wants delicate claw prongs. I love his petite torchiere for a 6 prong option but my personal concern has been whether he could execute a claw prong to a level of LM or SK (or at least close). Thoughts?

Oh good point! I brought in my personal biases, and prior experiences with disconnects between 'what's being asked for' and 'what's actually desired' - and didn't even notice it!

Re. Prongs in particular...

It's been my experience that many new PSers ask for "delicate pointy claw prongs" but what they're truly looking for isn't actually related to a small-size prong; it's precision of shape and claw. Victor Canera's prongs aren't dainty in terms of size by any means, for example - they're actually on the heftier side as far as claw prongs go. But they're beautifully, evenly shaped, so the extra heft has no aesthetic downside and is in fact my strong personal preference (prongs are delicate by nature, any extra metal that imparts sturdiness is a good thing IMO!)

Here are a couple of examples of what I mean - "velociraptor" prongs vs. heftier but precisely-shaped claws. Both are lovely, and I think most buyers would be perfectly happy with either variety

"Velociraptor" prongs. Okay handforged, don't let anyone tell you this is a good idea cast!

(Leon Mege)


(Erika Winters - the prongs are very small, but there are eight of them, so... I wouldn't be horrified if a vendor cast like this).


Thicker "claw" prongs by other vendors - equally beautiful, more sturdy. The only *good* claw option if your vendor casts.

(BGD, cast)


(DBL's handforging bench, handforged)


(Victor Canera, handforged)



MWM's "heart" prongs are definitely a different style - I happen to like them but I can see how someone else might find them too prominent. I don't think his thicker, rounder prongs are a sign of lesser workmanship or ability, which is the usual assumption - I am confident he deliberately shapes them the way he does for aesthetic reasons. I'm guessing he's able (willing?) to reshape them to a customer's preference, but I very much doubt he'd be open to making them as small in size as Leon's, for example, because he wouldn't feel they're safe. Creating a *safe* smaller sized prong is definitely a benefit of handforging!

Yssie - Thank you so much for your follow-up! I mean it sincerely...it is very helpful to me and I am sure very helpful to the OP!! I am just trying to learn as much as I can because picking a vendor is more complicated than it seems!! I appreciate your insights!

Michael_E - Thank you as well! As a side note, I know people that won't buy a a car because of the sound of their horn!

LeDiamant – I look forward to hearing what you decide!! I do really hope you get your dream ring!!!!

 

[yssie]

I'm glad to be helpful tweeter!

I'm laughing because my phone tried to autocorrect my misspelling of 'glad' to H&A

I'm right there with you on choosing the right vendor. I've come to the conclusion that that's actually the hardest part - find the right vendor and you can just let him "do his thing" without worrying or feeling compelled to micromanage (I'm sure you're surprised to hear that that's one of my failings )...

 

[LeDiamant]

Thank you all again for your recommendations! I realize now that I definitely had tunnel vision with LM and, after revisiting these PS staples, I especially like Steven Kirsch and BE and I’m talking with each of them now.

Is SK exclusively hand-forged? Because if so, for all of the reasons mentioned by Michael_E and Yssie, I think I may go with him. Although he quoted outside of my budget, I think it’s worth it to have a hand forged piece rather than save $400 and have a CAD product (even though I do think BE could get the prongs just right).

And Yssie, that’s such a good point about prongs. There’s so much that goes into making them look just right. I’ve noticed that not only do size and shape matter, but spacing does as well. It’s a lot to juggle! I love the term velociraptor prongs, I think I’ll use that in my discussions with SK. When the double claws are very small and thin, I always think they look like staples so that’s what I call them.

Michael_E, I do agree-it’s certainly not the claw shapes that make the master, but IMHO they are a direct result and sign of their mastery.

Tweeter8177 and MollyMalone, thank you for your help in asking some of the questions I wouldn’t think to ask!

As I said, I’ll keep everyone posted on what we decide to do!

 

[tweeter8177]

How exciting!!! SK's work is known to be hand forged, but I would definitely confirm that with him. Was it really only $400 difference between CAD (I assume BE) and SK? If so, I would for sure go with SK. Since you mentioned you want the diamond set higher than your inspiration picture, I would make sure you communicate your expectations on the height and make sure that is clear to him. Just curious, how did SK compare to LM pricing in general? Keep us posted and I look forward to seeing the finished product!!

 

[LeDiamant]

Tweeter8117, I emailed SK and asked but am waiting to hear back from him regarding whether his quote is for hand forged. He was basically 2/3 the price of Leon (I hope they don't mind me sharing this all!).

I'm curious about the design process (e.g. when will I get a sketch?, should I provide a comprehensive list of all the things I want right now?, etc.). I also included these questions in the email, but I didn't send it until after business hours so hopefully I'll hear back soon tomorrow! I'm so eager to get started!

 

[tweeter8177]

I am not sure if you knew this, but my understanding is that Steven worked for Leon until he started his own business. The custom process for hand forged is very different than a CAD. I would highly doubt you would get sketches for this style as it isn't a brand new design. My guess is he has done many rings similar to your inspiration, so you pretty much work with him up front to make sure he understands some specifics you might have, for example height of the diamond, width of the shank, double vs. single prongs, uniform vs. tapered shank, etc. The reason he gets great reviews on PS is that he knows how to make a ring in the right proportions to the size/shape of your diamond. He doesn't need to be micro-managed. You need to trust him, which can be hard.

When I was in his office 3 years ago to meet with him on my ring (avatar), he had a ton of pictures of rings he had done. My guess is you could ask him to send you pictures of similar rings and you could point out features you want. I am not clear if you are meeting with him in person? I pretty much chose my side stones and left the rest up to him...and I mean everything! I know others are more closely involved in the process depending on the design. I would be interested in how he responds. Regardless, he will do a beautiful ring for you!