almost got kicked out of a mall jewelry store today...

[Dancing Fire]

i was looking at a IGI I VS2 1 ct rb for $2600 and i asked the salesman what''s the measurement of the stone. he took out a mm gauge and he says, "4.5 mm." then i said that''s impossible. he said, "are you saying this stone is not a 1 ct?"(he''s starting to get piss off) then i said, "if this stone is a 1 ct, it''s the deepest 1 ct stone in the world." i know it was a bad cut just imagine if it was really 4.5 mm, what''s the depth percentage ? >75% with a extra fat girdle....LOL ,also look at their leo cuts nothing special about it "looks dead"

 

[valeria101]

Yiks!

Sounds like they really did not want to answer you... even at 70% depth it should still ahve been about 6mm, the poor diamond. Shouldn't shopping be pleasant beyond that 5min before you sign the check ?

 

[yowahking]

First mistake shopping in a mall. Second mistake, shopping in a Sterling Corporation store, third mistake looking at anything with an IGI cert. (same as buying a house based on outside measurement buy not being able to look inside). Last mistake is letting a guy that the day before was a waiter at Red Lobster use a gauge. Glad you left, brilliant diamonds are out there and at huge discounts under mall prices. Look for a store that does not pay commission, actually trains their staff,(diamontologist does not count, you could pass that course in a 5 min training session), has AGS stones, (not all but at least some), and is willing to work on a tight profit. The last is the toughest one, most good jewelers still are on old school margins and believe that you will shop with them even if they are 30% higher. 5 years ago, yes. This year, there are too many choices. Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them. If you let me know what state you live in, or city, I may be able to suggest someone.
Scott

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:

Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them. Scott----------------

Oh really? Exactly what internet diamonds because the most of the one's listed on Pricescope are *premier* cuts & goods. Many of the vendors cherry pick their goods. If you are talking about ebay diamonds, then you may have a point.

 

[Superidealist]

yowahking wrote:
First mistake shopping in a mall.

I believe it's best not to judge a jeweler by where they happen to be located. One of the jewelers I most often recommend is in a mall.

 

[ame]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 9:54:07 AM fire&ice wrote:

----------------

On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:


Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them. Scott----------------

Oh really? Exactly what internet diamonds because the most of the one's listed on Pricescope are *premier* cuts & goods. Many of the vendors cherry pick their goods. If you are talking about ebay diamonds, then you may have a point.

----------------

This just proves to me that most B&Ms really are overcharging and they know it and hate that people aren't dumb enough to fall into their webs of lies.

 

[wonka27]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:

Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them.
Scott----------------

Scott,

Your not going to make many friends around here if you keep bad mouthing "internet diamonds". You have made some fairly blank statements about internet jewelers that I have seen, and I don't think it is fair. The people around here know the good Internet stores and will defend them vigorously!

 

[hoorray]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 10:35:10 AM wonka27 wrote:

----------------
On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:

Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them.
Scott----------------

Scott,

Your not going to make many friends around here if you keep bad mouthing 'internet diamonds'. You have made some fairly blank statements about internet jewelers that I have seen, and I don't think it is fair. The people around here know the good Internet stores and will defend them vigorously!----------------

Actually, I think Scott has a right to voice his thoughts, even if the majority around here don't agree with him. We don't want the only people who agree with the majority to participate. However, for a statement like this, I would think he should back it up with some facts since it flys in the face of the facts that most here have found to be the opposite.

(Scott, Just do a search on the quality of the stones listed by the Internet vendors here, and visit some of the sites to see even more details on the quality.)

 

[yowahking]

Don't you all get your feathers ruffled, what I said stands. If you all defend the good interenet sites, super. But the majority are not good. Just as the comment that most B&M stores charge too much, I agree. Of the 400 stores in AZ, mine was selected as #1 for price, many of my friends are pissed off that I don't charge more. I am just of the mind that I can get more diamonds and would rather have $100 than wait till someone pays $500. (again Leonid, not trying to sell here, just making a point) With my position in AJA, I see what many of you don't see is the rip offs on the net. Which is why I warned about being careful. When you can actually see the diamond, it is easier than when you are just looking at a cert on the net. Both have advantages and both have disadvantages. I see via the most decorated appraiser in AZ, about 60% of the internet jewelry that gets appraised get sent back. Most often they find a better one on the net also, which is why you need to know a good appraiser (right Richard). I rarely get beat by an internet stone but if I do I am honest and tell the people that they got a great stone and congratulate them on being smart. I also send who they got it from a nice note congratulating them on doing internet the right way. Sometimes I see people get the same price on a diamond that I pay (and I am pretty well conected), way too often, I see certs from bogus companies that are not even listed in my book, certs that are GIA but date is 2 years old, so you know it has been around the block due to 57%depth. Or just lucky certs, and I have one now which GIA's new policy of really overgrading brown tints. I have a stone that has a GIA K color that every lab in the world would grade it 3 colors lower. Is it a K, no. But I bought it just to show people how the even with GIA paper, you still have to learn and see the stone. I will use it for years to teach customers and jewelers.
So easy does it and don't try to guess what I mean, only see what I write. The other problem with the internet which may ruffle feathers, is that the same diamonds show up on 50 different lists. One of my friends plays that game. Pretend you own it and post someone's inventory on the net. If anyone calls for it, you quick email them the cert. There is no way for a consumer to check on this. He can get 3 different prices on the same diamond. Cream will rise to the top with the internet and Jewelers. I am very behind the curve with my own web sites, probably 2 years behind, but I am better with gems than a keyboard. It took me 2 days to figure out what you guys called B&M.
I am on this site to learn and share my expertise not to bash. My topic that I am speaking on next week to jewelers is "why internet customers are not coming to your store". I will piss off some people, but they will wake up.
Scott

 

[quaeritur]

Scott, I appreciate you posting a different perspective, but I think you might want to spend a little time researching these internet diamonds you seem to dislike. So far, the ones I've seen have significantly outperformed what I've seen at a couple of local, independent B&Ms. Oh, and so has the customer service, by a long shot. Ah, and also, the internet vendors I've dealt with have been far more knowledgeable, and willing to share that knowledge with the consumer.

Also, of all the folks around here, vtigger has been around the diamond block a few times... and seems to know where to shop from what I've read!

[edited to add - sorry, posting at the same time as you]

 

[yowahking]

Forgot to respond to whoever said a good jeweler was in a mall, yes I know one too. But almost every major mall has 3 Sterling stores (Kay's, Wiesfields, Jarred's)and 3 Zales (Zales, Gordons, Bailey Banks&biddle) and 2 Warren Buffet (Helzberg, Ben Bridge) None of which you will find very good value, either poor quality or priced too high or both. Although I will still buy a beer at the ball game knowing it is not worth $7, so the mall store will survive also. I have been at this too long, I can back up anything I say, whether you agree or not is ok.

 

[yowahking]

Thanks for the comment quaeritr, if you look at my original message, I did list that most b& m stores charge more and sit on a throne thinking that people will pay more because of who they are, which is very old school, but think about this. If a diamond is a great diamond and it is priced very well, the owner has many options. Sell it quickly for a small profit, sell it slower for a larger profit, or wait for an undeducated customer to pay a stupid price for it. That goes for both internet and B$m. Many diamonds on the internet are there because the owner can sell it faster. Many are there because he can get more for it than selling it to jewelers. Many are there because there is just something about it that jewelers did not like and it needs a "blind" home. Some are there only because a computer whiz can make good money from his home being a middle man for a diamond dealer. Does not mean that any of those reasons are bad. Just to be careful and do homework, no matter where you shop. Part of the reason that many diamond dealers decided to go after retail customers is that jewelers often don't pay the bill when the term is due. I am working on that problem also. I will irritate a few jewelers this year, but customers will be the winner. More education on the supply and the demand ends is the answer.

 

[Superidealist]

yowahking wrote:
I have been at this too long, I can back up anything I say, whether you agree or not is ok.

The kind of blanket statement that I objected to cannot be backed up. That you and I both know of good mall jewelers demonstrates this. I know that what you said is generally true but it's best not to paint with so broad a brush.

 

[yowahking]

If 90% of mall jewelers are corporate, than a broad brush is accurate. I would love to be in a mall and be the one to dominate quite easily, I just want to have a life and not have mall hours. The original message also said that he was shown an IGI cert, you and I both know that the good jeweler in the mall would not use those certs, so I think we agree more than we don't.

 

[Carmel]

I am going to applaud “yowahking” for his fervor. If I may take the artistic license to paraphrase what I think he is saying…he may be referring to those bevy of stones generated when you pull up a virtual inventory list. I was naïve in thinking that all these perfect-on-paper diamonds were available at my disposal if I just called and secured the deal. After all, I was “in the know.” Well, that has not been my experience at all. If I do find something on a virtual list that sounds promising, BOOM, it’s gone. I was told by an online vendor (memory fails me as to who that was), that these lists are the same lists used by all jewelers from which to select their stones. Maybe most of you know that, but I didn’t at the time. And, even though I’ve only been hanging around here for a couple of months, I thought I had the secret code and could outsmart the system.

Maybe we are all starting to have tunnel vision here? When “yowahking” was making his point, I don’t think he was trying to be derogatory toward the handful of esteemed vendors who we all hear about on Pricescope. We will all defend online stones until the cows come home, but it is completely ignorant for us to believe that there isn’t a fair quantity of rip-offs online, too. As Pricescope participants, we seem to stay within our little clique of accepted and approved vendors – and that’s completely fine – these vendors have earned and maintained their reputation. Just remember that as PS partakers, we are just one subculture of diamond pursuers (helluva lot of P’s in that sentence!). Lots of people are looking online for diamonds and never get to PS.

So, I’m going to stand up for “yowahking.” Sometimes the truth is a hard pill to swallow.

Edited to correct mis-spelling.

 

[wonka27]

If the way carmel puts it is the way it is, I'm fine with those comments. I just think a little more consideration should be given to good online vendors too when making blanket statements. It might be nice to mention there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[Rowan]

Now I know that IGI does not share the sterling reputation of GIA, but I think it is wrong to say never buy an IGI stone. I have an IGI stone that is stunning and I think if you see a stone you like and it's a good performer, it shouldn't be such a big deal which peice of paper it has.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 9:54:07 AM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:

Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them. Scott----------------

Oh really? Exactly what internet diamonds because the most of the one's listed on Pricescope are *premier* cuts & goods. Many of the vendors cherry pick their goods. If you are talking about ebay diamonds, then you may have a point.
----------------

Nothing of what you say backs up this blanket statement by you. "Most" "They all get set in India" "All of the Mall stores"

But then, when someone must boast about themselves, I tend to not listen. All I hear is that you consider yourself to be the only place worthy to shop.

 

[Carmel]

Perhaps the lost art of “reading between the lines” could put this argument to rest. What are we even arguing for in the first place? So what if the guy doesn’t meet everyone’s expectations of proper language. He never said he had a degree in diplomatic relations – he just said he was a jeweler (not that one is better than the other…). The crux of the matter is this…he has some valid points that he’s experienced first hand. Isn’t that what we want on this forum, the voice of experience? Now lets put some salve on this wound and let it heal. In other words, get over it.

 

[Superidealist]

yowahking wrote:
If 90% of mall jewelers are corporate, than a broad brush is accurate.

Then I would be justified in advising all shoppers not to buy jewelry in Arizona if it happens that most Arizona jewelry stores are of this type.

 

[Carmel]

And, I don't know this guy from Adam, either...so that's not why I sound like I'm on his side. I just like to hear a little different perspective once in a while. It makes me think. I get into a know-it-all rut myself very easily.

 

[wonka27]

OOOOHHHH!!!

I hear some hissing going on

 

[Carmel]

Well, I’m just like a lot of those “internet stones.” It sounds good on paper…but I probably couldn’t get up on my hind legs like this if I had to in person. HarHar!

Carmel

 

[Carmel]

Now you’ll have to excuse me. I have some diamond matters of my own to sort out. Please refer to my “ ½ eternity band” thread. I can’t solve all the world’s problems and my own at the same time, too!

 

[wonka27]

 

[Carmel]

...nice talk!

 

[wonka27]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 1:58:28 PM Superidealist wrote:

yowahking wrote:
If 90% of mall jewelers are corporate, than a broad brush is accurate.

Then I would be justified in advising all shoppers not to buy jewelry in Arizona if it happens that most Arizona jewelry stores are of this type.
----------------

Very good point made here, IMHO!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:

Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them.Scott----------------

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 8/18/2004 3:54:56 AM yowahking wrote:

First mistake shopping in a mall. Second mistake, shopping in a Sterling Corporation store, third mistake looking at anything with an IGI cert. (same as buying a house based on outside measurement buy not being able to look inside). Last mistake is letting a guy that the day before was a waiter at Red Lobster use a gauge. Glad you left, brilliant diamonds are out there and at huge discounts under mall prices. Look for a store that does not pay commission, actually trains their staff,(diamontologist does not count, you could pass that course in a 5 min training session), has AGS stones, (not all but at least some), and is willing to work on a tight profit. The last is the toughest one, most good jewelers still are on old school margins and believe that you will shop with them even if they are 30% higher. 5 years ago, yes. This year, there are too many choices. Careful of internet diamonds, most of them are on there because jewelers did not want them. If you let me know what state you live in, or city, I may be able to suggest someone.
Scott----------------

yowahking,
thanks for the advice. but i wasn't about to buy from this store. just killing some time. i know a correctly graded i vs2 would cost more than $2600 per ct. i'am no expert ,but i have some idea what to look for, as for this stone, i didn't need to look at the inside of this house,the outside looked bad enough already. the dry ice in my freezer looks better than this particular stone.

 

[yowahking]

Rowan, If you have a great stone, that is super. You are right paper should not matter. 10 years ago very few had any paper. Paper became an issue when too many people stretched the truth about the grade and independent labs were needed. I would rather have a stone with no cert than a great cert that seems better than the stone actually is. 10 years ago, you could ask the average person what does a table mean on a diamond. Most would not know. Now it seems like about 50% know what it is and a reasonable idea about what is good and what is not. That is one of the great things about the internet. Lots of information. The problem with certs are that too often it only tells a portion of the picture. For instance, what is called an ideal cut can add up to 20% of the stones value. A poorly cut stone can drop the value by 30% or more. Good jewelers and dealers have known this for ever. Too often certs only have the width, and depth, which tells you not enough to judge whether it is a good deal or not. It is not your diamond that is bad, it is a cert that is bad. GIA has the prestige, but fails also with cutting information, at least you get table and depth, but still not enough. That is why I suggest at least a Sarin report from stones that the cert is not good enough. That is a cheap report that gives you enough information to decide value. A good appraiser is also in your interest. In most states you could be a Rider Truck rental and do appraisals on the side, with not even a GG which is not enough but a start. Seems strange that you have to pass a state license to cut hair, paint finger nails, and appraise houses, but your wedding ring can be done by printing a paper that says appraisal on the top, signing Daffy Duck at the bottom and guessing at the rest. All legal. Appraisals done by the seller tend to be higher than those that are independent, hmmmmmmmm. Independent appraisals tend to be much lower than the price on the certs that also have a price tag, HMMMMMMMMMMMM. So don't let the group on this site that are selling convince you that I am such a bad guy, I just have information from all angles with no pitch. I am not trying to sell you, just offer opinions to help you.
Scott