AGS0 and HCA

[Kem]

I apologize if this topic has already been covered, I tried a search and I got a lot of results, but none addressing my question specifically.

I am looking at diamonds at Union diamond. They sometimes show certificates and sometimes you have to email for them. I understand not all diamonds are in house. But if a diamond is rated Ideal and you are not able to see the certificate, can you be sure from just the table and depth that it will rate well on the HCA because it is ID/ID in polish and symmetry and they call it an ideal? I am frustrated and I feel bad that I have to email UD for more information for every stone when I am really not seriously considering any of them yet (how can I be, with no info?)

Also, I have heard that some people have gotten diamonds from them that were not actually eyeclean as advertised and I wondered if by getting an AGS ideal SI1 you would have more peace of mind that it was eyeclean rather than a GIA (I''m kind of ruling out EGL altogether). Is AGS more strict about grading?

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 12/2/2007 7:33:40 PM
Author:Kem

I am looking at diamonds at Union diamond. They sometimes show certificates and sometimes you have to email for them. I understand not all diamonds are in house. But if a diamond is rated Ideal and you are not able to see the certificate, can you be sure from just the table and depth that it will rate well on the HCA because it is ID/ID in polish and symmetry and they call it an ideal? I am frustrated and I feel bad that I have to email UD for more information for every stone when I am really not seriously considering any of them yet (how can I be, with no info?)

Sorry...why Union? You're description provides reason to go elsewhere. (Edited to add)...to your question...as we see here...unfortunately no...you really cannot assume it is ideal with respect to it's proportions...if they call it ideal, and only show table and depth. I'd be predisposed they call it ideal only because of what you and they can see at the same time...the table & depth. When search further, and reviewed more closely with respect to crown & pavilion angles, you and they may well both be surprised. Actually...in today's world, where GIA too classifies excellent with respect to such info...one wonders why they still do this. Maybe you could ask them.

Also, I have heard that some people have gotten diamonds from them that were not actually eyeclean as advertised and I wondered if by getting an AGS ideal SI1 you would have more peace of mind that it was eyeclean rather than a GIA (I'm kind of ruling out EGL altogether). Is AGS more strict about grading?

As Dave Atlas has reviewed recently...color & clarity are generally similar between GIA & AGS. SI1 is generally thought to be case by case...and with Union...since I do think most are virtual...your an extra person away from the one that is actually seeing it. Alternately...for either AGS or GIA...VS2 more routinely solves the problem.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 12/2/2007 7:33:40 PM
Author:Kem
I am frustrated and I feel bad that I have to email UD for more information for every stone when I am really not seriously considering any of them yet (how can I be, with no info?)

Have been there and know exactly what you mean.

If you're serious about quality and buying sight-unseen, then you have to see independent and trustworthy grades. Which means seeing a full GIA/AGS report. Table/Depth is totally insufficient to judge quality as you'll quickly learn if you hang around Pricescope for a while.

'Vendor grades' like Union Diamond's Select Ideal™ typically can not be trusted as they are internal standard s and rarely documented. For example, this Union Diamond is one of their Select Ideals, yet only a GIA Very Good.

Why the difference? Well it would be a GIA Excellent if it wasn't for its very thin girdle. So it might have top light performance, just not good durability. That could prove an issue for someone who felt confident because they were buying an Ideal cut.

 

[Kem]

Thanks for the info. So, to just go over again, in general it is a bad idea to buy an SI1 if you do not trust the person telling you it is eyeclean- better to just go for the VS2 and peace of mind.

As to the question of why union, I am not limiting myself to them, that is just the vendor where I have mostly found I have this problem. I have also been looking at whiteflash, gog, james allen, and others. I was interested in them because their settings seem really nice and cheap to the point of being too good to be true (and maybe now I see that they are, if there are so many problems with getting a quality stone from them). Still, now that I understand about vendor grading I would still think that a GIA excellent would be excellent no matter where you bought it from and likewise for the other grades. Is this not true? If I limit my search to GIA excellent and AGS Ideal diamonds, will that keep me from having the problem with the stone that you linked, stebbo? I will still ask for complete reports, but just as a starting point for looking?

 

[stebbo]

Date: 12/3/2007 8:54:59 AM
Author: Kem
Thanks for the info. So, to just go over again, in general it is a bad idea to buy an SI1 if you do not trust the person telling you it is eyeclean- better to just go for the VS2 and peace of mind.

VS2 would give you peace of mind but you are looking at a 10% jump in price over an SI1. So is it worth it?

If it is eye-visible on an SI1 it won''t be bad. Looking at the plot on the report can help. Seeing lots of little flaws makes a scary looking plot but is most likely less noticeable than an SI1 with a single, larger flaw.

Still, now that I understand about vendor grading I would still think that a GIA excellent would be excellent no matter where you bought it from and likewise for the other grades. Is this not true? If I limit my search to GIA excellent and AGS Ideal diamonds, will that keep me from having the problem with the stone that you linked, stebbo? I will still ask for complete reports, but just as a starting point for looking?

AGS-0''s from 2005 can be relied upon, GIA Ex''s not as much so (but more than vendor grades). Become familiar with the HCA, it''s another tool but you''ll need crown and pavilion angles from the report as UD don''t publish them. And when you''re down to a few, post some specs in a new thread and you''ll find amazing people ready to help you out.

 

[Lorelei]

Steb, your avatar is priceless

 

[aljdewey]

Kem, you shouldn''t feel bad about having to ask for certificates on stones. That''s part of a vendor''s job: to provide the information to make you comfortable with your purchase.

That said, I can certainly understand being frustrated at having to specifically ask for them for each stone you might consider.

There are a few ways to reduce that frustration. You can limit yourself to considering stones that are inhouse with UD, but I''d suspect their inhouse stock isn''t expansive. Your other option would be to go with a vendor who has a fairly broad inhouse inventory; in that instance, grading reports would be available on several stones within your desired criteria and give you more selection. There are several reputable vendors here that fit the bill.

Best of luck.