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AGS F color looks like G and H

E

emeraldforolivia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
34
Thank you all for helping me choose my emerald cut ring! My sister is getting engaged at the same time, and she prefers a round cut. This is what catches her eyes: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...at-f-color-vvs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3978095

It is AGS graded. 1.65ct, F color, VVS2, ideal cut. Her concern is it doesn't look like an F on the video, especially when comparing to other F color stones. I agree with her. But it could be the case where we talked ourselves into believing it. So to be sure, we want to ask nice and helpful people/professionals here to shed some light on the matter.

Would you say that this is a decent F color diamond?
Would you say that overall, this is a nice stone to have?

3978095.jpg
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Thank you, and happy new year!
 
It is a beautiful stone, great numbers, great IS - I do believe that AGS is slightly less strict on color than GIA and do think this stone would likely come back a GIA G but it is hard to tell from a video on a screen since they vary from computer to computer. I do think it's worth a look since JA has a great return policy and you could always take it to a PS recommended appraiser for evaluation and return it if they do appraise it at a G/H color. G is still very white (I went from an E to a G when I upgraded and I do consider myself color sensitive) but I could understand if she wants that icy white look or just wants the F for cultural reasons.

What's the budget so we could have a look at what else is available?
 
I think it’s a beautiful stone! I think when she sees it in person she’ll be very pleased. Just be sure to look at it in all lighting conditions, let us know what she thinks.
 
I don't think it's possible to accurately judge colour from a video or picture - too many variables are at play.

Lighting in the video, colour temperature setting of the camera, background/foreground of the filming environment, unintended colour conversion within software packages, uncalibrated monitors of those viewing the video at home...

The only way to really assess a stone would be at home, I reckon.
 
Looks like contrast enhanced/high contrast video which makes it look crisp but gives it more colour. Despite this certainly wouldn't put it at an H, borderline between F and G and the difference in real life will be negligent
 
ac117 said:
It is a beautiful stone, great numbers, great IS - I do believe that AGS is slightly less strict on color than GIA and do think this stone would likely come back a GIA G but it is hard to tell from a video on a screen since they vary from computer to computer. I do think it's worth a look since JA has a great return policy and you could always take it to a PS recommended appraiser for evaluation and return it if they do appraise it at a G/H color. G is still very white (I went from an E to a G when I upgraded and I do consider myself color sensitive) but I could understand if she wants that icy white look or just wants the F for cultural reasons.

What's the budget so we could have a look at what else is available?
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Hello~~ Happy new year! Thank you for the response.

The budget is $20000. This one is $20XXX. She wants at least an 1.5ct stone, EX EX EX, F-D color, VVS2 and up, no Flour, and cannot accept inclusions other than pinpoints, needles, and clouds. The F color is not a cultural thing, but she does want an icy white feel :) The cold hard truth for her is when we restricted table to 54%-58% and depth to 60%-62%, there weren't really that many choices to look at. Then we filtered out stones with HCA higher than 1.5. There were less than 5 diamonds left, and they are all like $20XXX, $21XXX, and even $23XXX, for 1.5 something carat weight, but this one is 1.65ct. The weight difference still means something to her. Plus none of them had a better hearts and arrows pattern (except maybe for the $23k one, but that one looks so weird on the inside). She's a sensitive person and wants assurance. I think if she has to take it else where to do the exam and the results come back not good, it will really break her heart =_=

If she buys it with a setting, can it still be tested (for color) or it has to be a loose diamond? Another thing is she doesn't want extra hassle. If she had to buy a loose diamond and the test came back good, she would have to send it back for setting which she doesn't like =_=
 
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Oh, you shouldn't filter out stones higher than 1.5, because a 1.5 is not better than 1.9! Set your limit at 2.0 for the HCA score. A lower number below 2.0 is not better than higher. It is just a range for the better cut GIA stones. You don't use it for AGS. You likely eliminated some good stones. Yes, AGS can be softer on color grading when stones are borderline. I've seen several here graded by both and they came back a grade higher from AGS. So if she wants a true D-F and no lower, either stick with GIA grading or D-E for AGS unless you want to have an AGS independently appraised.
 
I am searching the diamonds and will post some that are good. But I am including VS1 because it is extremely clean...as in, it is difficult to see inclusions even at 10x magnification. It's a big mistake to exclude those because it allows more choices and visually has no difference. Also, the depth should be set at 62.3 and not 62.0.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
Oh, you shouldn't filter out stones higher than 1.5, because a 1.5 is not better than 1.9! Set your limit at 2.0 for the HCA score. A lower number below 2.0 is not better than higher. It is just a range for the better cut GIA stones. You don't use it for AGS. You likely eliminated some good stones. Yes, AGS can be softer on color grading when stones are borderline. I've seen several here graded by both and they came back a grade higher from AGS. So if she wants a true D-F and no lower, either stick with GIA grading or D-E for AGS unless you want to have an AGS independently appraised.
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Happy new year!

Why do we not use HCA for AGS graded stones?
Can they appraise the color if it’s already mounted to the setting?
We are just not sure that if it is a GIA G, she can live with that... Other conditions same, we see some G color stones for 15xxx to 18xxx. This one is 20xxx. Not sure if it’s worth to pay several grand premium for an AGS F.
 
AGS grades stones for ideal cut and light performance. GIA Excellent is a very broad range and we use the HCA to narrow down the stones that would fall into the AGS ideal category. No, color cannot be accurately graded in the setting, and you'd never set a stone you weren't sure about keeping anyway.

This is a beauty if she doesn't mind medium fluorescence (which never shows unless UV light is shined on it). GIA E

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3589930

This is by far the best stone within her parameters.
 
It sounds like the intended recipient is paranoid about colour - don't forget that when on the hand, it won't be next to stones of other higher/lower colours, and will reflect the surroundings as well, so will look different colours in different lights.

I think I would agree with DS - stick to D or E colour in AGS or GIA grades if 'mind clean' is important.
 
So much of color in photos/ film is due to lighting. I have an AGS D color and it's very, very white and crisp, but if I put it in one spot in my house it takes on a yellow-ish tone. Studies keep showing that the two labs grade on par with each other.
 
OoohShiny said:
I don't think it's possible to accurately judge colour from a video or picture - too many variables are at play.

Lighting in the video, colour temperature setting of the camera, background/foreground of the filming environment, unintended colour conversion within software packages, uncalibrated monitors of those viewing the video at home...

The only way to really assess a stone would be at home, I reckon.
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Second this. You can't just color from a computer monitor - especially not against a range of other stones. Disregarding this stone on the basis of color is a mistake.
 
That is a beautifully cut stone. From the video, side on it certainly looks to show more of a yellow tint, but I would ask a JA gemologist to examine the stone and compare it against GIA graded F to H coloured stones they have in house (if they have any).
 
.

There is quite allot of variation in the white-ness of JA diamond videos (you might fine some rather tinted Ds - for laughs). This might well be what the camera sees, but not very real.

If you do not mind the extra step, an appraiser may be able to verify the colour grade.

2c
 
To me, I see body color undertone on the stone. But, it could be my screen. Ask the gemologist if it has a body undertone. My guess is gray or green.

It is probably why it is 1.65 but cheaper than the 1.5s
 
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UPDATE by OP:
My sister lowered the standards to H and VS2 and she had eyes on this one: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ected=3&Shape=round&DiamondID=2872082,3497375
1.56 G VVS1 (by GIA). Price $16xxx (idealscope requested)
Compared to the first one, 1.65, questionable F, VVS2 (by AGS). Price $20xxx (AGS 0000)

JA SA said the new one is brighter. We are just not sure of its light performance. So which one to go for?




 
emeraldforolivia said:
JA SA said the new one is brighter. We are just not sure of its light performance. So which one to go for?
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The HCA says that the proportiosn of the G are very much OK (1.1 score). The stone looks very nice, with a clear 'arrows' pattern - to the extent that this can be said from the video (the ASET or IS images would be harsher, showing minute details of the pattern).
 
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valeria101 said:
The HCA says that the proportiosn of the G are very mu OK (1.1 score). The stone looks very nice, with a clear 'arrows' pattern - to the extent that this can be said from the video (the ASET or IS images would be harsher, showing minute details of the pattern).
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Do you mean "very much OK"? Maybe the numbers are off, but I entered twice and I'm getting HCA 1.6 for the G color one with EX EX EX VG, and 1.5 for the F with EX EX VG VG.

So you vote for G? :)

Happy new year~
 
Vote for G.

You must be right about the HCA - I have rushed through a few, fast ... Of course, 1.5 is also very much OK .-)

(oops for the typo ... )
 
Quick question:

Why not D / VVS ?

This one: WWW

(HCA 1.8 )
 
I HIGHLY doubt a AGS graded F would be a H by GIA standards. Incidently, I had a AGS G-VS1 that I traded in many years ago, that was re-graded by GIA to be a G-VVS2.
 
valeria101 said:
Quick question:

Why not D / VVS ?

This one: WWW

(HCA 1.8 )
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Ah... because of the medium flour. Where we live we is pretty much all summer all year long, and my sister's line of work is not a desk job, she (the diamond) is exposed under direct sun light. So she doesn't want the stone to reflect blue.
 
Nothing left to quibble with, then ! Still voting for the G.

I had hoped to find a D - simply because the price & weight range you are looking seemed to allow for the top color grade, & VVS is a slightly more than enough (the videos must be well beyond 10X !) ... In the end the most tempting were the one already mentioned & a 1.7cts $2xxxx D/VS1 (HCA 1.3 EX-EX-EX-VG) with proportions well within the most beloved Pricescope range.

Over & out !
 
emeraldforolivia said:
Ah... because of the medium flour. Where we live we is pretty much all summer all year long, and my sister's line of work is not a desk job, she (the diamond) is exposed under direct sun light. So she doesn't want the stone to reflect blue.
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All stones will reflect blue from a blue sky, fluor or no fluor. Many posters come here thinking they have fluor on a 'no fluor's stone precisely because of this.

Medium fluor is usually very subtle, and I'd advise you to try compare it in a local store, in a high colour before you rule them all out. Saying that, there is a range
 
emeraldforolivia said:
Her concern is it doesn't look like an F on the video, especially when comparing to other F color stones.
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I am a graphic designer, give me any of these JA videos, and I will make diamond to look D or Z color!
A color can be determined ONLY with human eye, ONLY when comparing to grading color set, and under full spectrum white light without UV.
Also, some diamonds in life exhibit different of their lab graded color. This is due to many factors, one is the cut, but not only.
My advice is: order your diamond, see it with your eyes in your everyday environment, and then decide!
 
gm89uk said:
All stones will reflect blue from a blue sky, fluor or no fluor. Many posters come here thinking they have fluor on a 'no fluor's stone precisely because of this.

Medium fluor is usually very subtle, and I'd advise you to try compare it in a local store, in a high colour before you rule them all out. Saying that, there is a range
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I had my original diamond for 25 years before I knew it had medium fluorescence (when I was considered a reset and the jeweler looked at the stone under UV light and told me). gm89uk is correct that you don't see a blue glow in normal sunlight conditions. I have only seen true fluorescence when shining a UV light on the stone. I personally consider fluorescence a bonus.
 
Here is my VSB Octavia compared to my wife's nil RB under the sun.IMG_2884.JPG IMG_2895.JPG
 
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