Aggressive dog- what to do?

[E B]

My husband and I have two pugs who we love very much. They're both very sweet and constantly keep us in stitches.

Our female, Sally (who I've had as my icon since coming to Pricescope), is a serious diva. She's an alpha female and since puppyhood, has been very aggressive. If my husband and I are holding anything in our hands above her head, she snarls, barks and snaps until we lower it to her face to sniff. If anyone's eating food, as most dogs would, she tries to get it...but if you say "no" or gently try to push her away, she'll bite. HARD. She's bitten both my husband and I several times, hard enough to draw blood. We've tried a number of things to regain "alpha status," but none of them have worked.

Our son is seven months old, and within no time, he'll be walking and carrying around toys and food. He won't understand why she snaps at him, and it's only a matter of time before she bites him. And though I'll be there to supervise, things can happen in the blink of an eye. Just thinking about the two interacting makes me nervous.

The problem: I've tried talking to my husband about what to do, but the conversation makes him incredibly uncomfortable. When I suggested *possibly* finding another home for her, one without children and with more one-on-one time, he became upset. He said that dogs are a lifetime commitment and he didn't see what the big deal was. "She isn't that bad."

On the one hand, I completely agree with him- dogs are a lifetime commitment, and the suggestion to find her a new home was one I didn't come to easily. On the other hand, I'm trying to think of my son's safety AND Sally's happiness. Her aggression seems to have increased since the baby's arrival.

Does anyone have any suggestions? What would you do if you were me? Any help or words of wisdom are appreciated.

 

[kama_s]

Yikes, what a difficult position to be in. Do you have a dog trainer in your neighborhood? I've heard some of them are very helpful in training a dog's behavior. If that doesn't work, I would find another home for the puppy - one without kids, or with grown-up kids. I could never ever put my child in potential danger.

 

[Kaleigh]

Oh Ebree,
You have to protect your LO first and foremost. You can send your dog away for training, or have him trained in the home. How old is the dog?? You need an animal trainer to advise you, if this is doable etc.. What the cost is etc...

Yes Pets are a lifetime commitment. But when the pet becomes a threat to your child, you have to protect your child, and you get that..

Now it''s getting your hubby to get to that place. My best friend''s little brother was attacked by a family pet. A lovely dog, and he wore scars on his face even after plastic surgery..

I know the other wise PS''ers will have lots of advice for you. HUGS, hope you find what works for all of you...

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Oh Ebree I am so sorry. DH and I went through nearly the same thing with one of our pugs. As you may know, we lived with DH''s parents for a bit so we could save for a house. My parents agreed to keep our female, but not our male because of his agressive behavior. He wasn''t quite as bad as your Sally, but he had some serious jealousy issues when James was born. It was so painful, but we found him a home with no children. He has done very well in his new home but it still brings me to tears when I think about having to give him up, especially since we got him when he was only around 9 weeks old.

I agree with kama_s - you do not want to put your sweet baby in danger so it might be best to find your puggie a new home. It is such a difficult thing to do and I wish you the best. ((((((EBREE)))))).

 

[KimberlyH]

Ebree, I would revist finding a new home for the dog. They are a life-long commitment, but so is parenting and I don''t think either of you could forgive yourselves if anything happened to your son.

Antecdotal information, at best: A friend owned the sweetest mutt you could ever imagine. The dog was huge (part rotweiler) but unbelievably docile. When her son was about 6 months old the dog got ahold of him. She was in the other room, heard her nanny screaming and came running. She had to punch the dog several times in the face to get him to release the baby, who luckily had minimal injuries. She then had to put the dog to sleep, which was tragic, she''d owned him for 10+ years.

I share because while obviously different dogs, I would hate for you and your husband to have to be in a situation where you would face an even more difficult decision than the one you are trying to make now.

Best of luck.

 

[Haven]

Hi, EBree,

I''m sorry you find yourselves in this situation.

Dogs *are* a lifetime commitment. I''m not trying to sound harsh when I say this, but your first mistake was to allow Sally to get away with this aggressive behavior for so long. I understand that you have to keep your LO safe, but it makes me so sad to see people adopt dogs before they have children and fail to properly train them, only to surrender them when the baby comes along. I really hope you choose to do right by Sally and find a local trainer who can help you properly train her so your LO will be safe.

We rescued our pup Bailee from a local shelter, and she had aggression issues when we first brought her home. We were able to train the aggression out of her to some extent, and then we found a great local trainer to help us with the rest. We actually relied pretty heavily on Cesar Millan''s books, especially since his techniques focus on the owner establishing his role as pack leader for the dog. I highly recommend Cesar Millan''s books, and watch some episodes of his show so you can see him in action.

Honestly, Sally is probably not a happy dog. Dogs need a pack leader, and her aggression is an escalation of her insecurity or excitement because you are not giving her rules, boundaries, and limitations. As her owner, I think you really owe it to her to provide that stable environment so she can live a happy, stress-free life.

I know this isn''t what you want to hear, and I know it''s common for people to give up their dogs when babies come along because they never properly trained the dogs in the first place, but I think that is a completely avoidable situation. Just as you will probably work hard to be good parents to your son, and to provide him with strong leadership, your dogs needs the same if she''s going to be a healthy, well-adjusted animal.

Do you have any neighbors with well behaved dogs? Ask them for their trainer''s info.

 

[VegasAngel]

If you want to keep Sally get her to a good trainer/behaviorist. She doesn't know her place, she shouldn't be biting you & gosh forbid she goes for your childs face.

 

[gailrmv]

Ebree, I am so sorry to hear of your situation. So far things are going pretty well with our dogs + mobile baby, but I'm constantly setting boundaries (on both sides) and trying to enforce them, and it's pretty tiring.

I agree with others - and you! - that a dog is a lifetime commitment, and I know you don't take that lightly. But, I also agree with those who have said that at the end of the day baby's safety comes first. It is not like you would be taking Sally to the pound. You would find her a great home. So I agree with everything you said in your post.

But before you rehome her, I would recommend talking with your veterinarian. He/she knows your dog, will be looking out for your dog's best interests, and knows what behavior can and cannot be changed. One of our dogs has always been anxious, and got more so after our son was born. The vet recommended some behavior things to work on and prescribed anti anxiety meds and it has made a huge difference in her behavior and quality of life. Doesn't sound like the same issues that your dog is having, but just giving an example of how the vet has helped us.

Good luck... I hope you can find a solution that works for everyone.

 

[Haven]

EBree--I wanted to edit my post to add this, but couldn''t:
I really do understand that you care for your pup, and I hope I didn''t sound uncaring in my last response. I can''t imagine how difficult it is to be dealing with this right now, and the urgency in my post just expresses my strong belief that any dog can be a "good" dog if cared for correctly.
Of course, I understand that time is difficult to come by with a young one at home, and training her *now* may not be a feasible option.
I just wanted to add that in case my last post sounded mean or snarky. That wasn''t my intent.

 

[E B]

Thank you all so much for replying. I felt (well, feel) awful for even thinking about having to re-home our precious girl, but I'm trying to be realistic.

kama- We're moving across the country in less than two months, but I'm going to see if I can find an affordable one-on-one trainer in our new city.

Haven- You're absolutely right. She had basic training, but it's clear she needs more one-on-one time with someone who knows what he or she is doing. I read several articles and we tried many different things to curb her aggressive behavior, but nothing seemed to work. I worry, though, that her aggressive nature is just that- part of her little personality (since she didn't come from an abusive home), and something that we may not be able to completely train out of her. We've had her since she was eight weeks old and have only used positive reinforcement, yet she still displays aggression over the smallest things.

(I don't mean to make her sound like Cujo. She's a very sweet, loving little dog. She just has her snappy moments, many more so since the baby's entered the picture.)

Re-homing her certainly wouldn't be easy for us to do; we've loved and cared for her all of her life. I just want to see her happy and my son safe.

 

[honey22]

This is such a terrible situation, but you need to get tough on the dog now! Dogs are much happier when they have strict owners and know their place in the 'pack'. It's only a matter of time before your child is bitten.

I did notice in your post that you mentioned the dog would misbehave until you lowered the food. That's your first mistake, don't give in to her, no matter what. She needs to know who's boss. At the moment, she is. She carries on, and then gets what she wants, to sniff the food. You need to take the control back from her. She will survive if she doesn't get the food.

If you can't control the dog now, you really do need to find another home for it. There is just no way I would take that risk with my two dogs. They are the absolute light of my life, but if I were to have kids in the future and they were displaying this behavior, they would be out.

ETA - I really don't think you need to spend money on a dog trainer, they don't train the dog, but rather the owners. It's simple really, you need to put them second. You need to eat first and make them wait, you need to eat in front of them and not give them anything, you need to not give in when they beg for stuff, etc etc, it's simply them learning they are on the bottom of the hierarcy. Good luck!!!

 

[E B]

Date: 1/15/2010 12:11:40 AM
Author: honey22

I did notice in your post that you mentioned the dog would misbehave until you lowered the food. That's your first mistake, don't give in to her, no matter what. She needs to know who's boss. At the moment, she is. She carries on, and then gets what she wants, to sniff the food. You need to take the control back from her. She will survive if she doesn't get the food.

I wish it were just food she'd misbehave over, but it's literally anything in our hands that's held above her head. The mail, a spatula, a baby toy, anything. As for her knowing her place in the pack, we've tried so much recommended to regain the status because I've read it's stressful for dogs to have to take the alpha role- but so far, nothing's worked. I'm so busy with the baby and my husband's so busy with work, not to mention we've got a huge move coming up, it's no wonder she's so stressed. She's stressed, we're stressed, and our other dog is stressed, since he feels the need to protect us when she's aggressive. He'll literally throw himself in front of her when she becomes snappy.

My husband and I sat down tonight to discuss what we feel is best, and we agreed the baby comes first, no matter what. We're going to take some time to go over various options.

 

[swingirl]

Sorry, I don''t think dogs are a lifetime commitment. They are pets and when they become dangerous and a threat to children I draw the line. Even if you "train" your dog and take over the dominant role in your household will you EVER trust your dog enough to be alone with a child? Children poke, pull, step-on, and trip-over their pets. They carry food around, smell like food and get a lot of attention.

Too many stories of the sweet family dogs attacking children and doing major damage to their faces.

I have a pug and love him dearly but I love my kids more.

 

[E B]

Date: 1/15/2010 12:37:41 AM
Author: swingirl
Sorry, I don't think dogs are a lifetime commitment. They are pets and when they become dangerous and a threat to children I draw the line. Even if you 'train' your dog and take over the dominant role in your household will you EVER trust your dog enough to be alone with a child? Children poke, pull, step-on, and trip-over their pets. They carry food around, smell like food and get a lot of attention.

Too many stories of the sweet family dogs attacking children and doing major damage to their faces.

I have a pug and love him dearly but I love my kids more.

You make a good point, swingirl. Not to mention he'll be much closer to her level (read: easier to bite). It's one of those situations where you (I) want to have faith that she won't bite the baby, but the reality is that she could, even after being trained.

(I hope I'm making sense. Kiddo's cutting four teeth at once, so I haven't had much sleep lately.)

 

[sunseeker101]

What an painful position to be in, EBree. I think if there's any way to save it it's with the help of a dog behaviorist/trainer. It takes some level of intuitive 'knack' to read even excellent dog training books and apply with confidence; and even with that ability it would be hard to focus so intently on it all with a baby to care for and worry about (though it's still an excellent idea). An expert can set you up with all the little-but-effective tricks that will reduce the problem to livable size. Some dogs do have inherently aggressive natures, but usually it's only if they've also been treated badly that it's impossible to eradicate. You might be surprised how small differences in handling can make for huge changes in behavior. Best of luck with the resolution!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Ebree We were in your exact position last October, Hunter was even the same age. Our female dog, Dreamer -- the lovely red in my avatar -- showed fear aggression towards a friend''s child and it got me scared. I think it was a matter of time before she got pushed too far either by our son or one of his friends. We rehomed her and it was the best thing we ever did. Sorry to say it to people who love dogs, I love them too, but they are dogs and your kids are your kids and sometimes the best thing for your family and the pet is to rehome them. She lives with a bunch of dogs and no kids now. We miss her, but we do not regret our choice.

My Dh was also very very against doing it. But I felt strongly and convinced him. And she was not as bad as your little gal sounds. If she has bitten you, then she *will* bite your child. And in the worst case it will be a bite on his face because he has food in his mouth

I think you know what you need to do. Don''t feel guilty if you find her a good home.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 1/15/2010 12:56:36 AM
Author: EBree

Date: 1/15/2010 12:37:41 AM
Author: swingirl
Sorry, I don''t think dogs are a lifetime commitment. They are pets and when they become dangerous and a threat to children I draw the line. Even if you ''train'' your dog and take over the dominant role in your household will you EVER trust your dog enough to be alone with a child? Children poke, pull, step-on, and trip-over their pets. They carry food around, smell like food and get a lot of attention.

Too many stories of the sweet family dogs attacking children and doing major damage to their faces.

I have a pug and love him dearly but I love my kids more.

You make a good point, swingirl. Not to mention he''ll be much closer to her level (read: easier to bite). It''s one of those situations where you (I) want to have faith that she won''t bite the baby, but the reality is that she could, even after being trained.

(I hope I''m making sense. Kiddo''s cutting four teeth at once, so I haven''t had much sleep lately.)

YES! When Henry gets mobile you will be in a real pickle. Hunter grabs handfulls of Seamus'' hair, Seamus follows him everywhere licking his face all the time for slobber and snot. We have a :no food except in the highchair" rule to minimize the chance of Seamus going after Hunter for food, but it doesn''t matter, life with a baby or a child is an interesting game for a pet with lots of delicious things right there in their faces. They need to be *very* confident to listen when you tell them no, and to not reaqct when the yget mauled by the kid. And this is all happening when I am supervising them

. Maybe a pet can be trained into becoming confident (thought I doubt it, not when the behaviour is severe), but isn''t it better if she in in an environment that she doesn''t find stressful? I guess after having kids and dealing with pets I put more stock in innate disposition than I do in environmental shaping.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Ebree, are you still in touch with your breeder? She might be able to point you in the direction of a great dog behaviorist. Another reason I would lean on your breeder for this is that good breeders will not allow you to rehome the dogs yourself. He/she would require that you sign a contract stating that if at any time you need to give up the dog, it must go back to the breeder. They need to be able to get in contact with Sally''s owners because if Sally develops any health issues down the road, it might affect your breeder''s breeding program.

Have you guys already called a dog behaviorist or a dog trainer?

 

[E B]

kama, Kaleigh, Diva, Kimberly, Haven, Vegas, TDM, honey, swing, sunseeker, dreamer, and NEL,

I can't thank you enough for sharing your opinions in such a kind way. After an awful night's sleep, I'm feeling better and less guilty about our options.

dreamer- When we were visiting my ILs over the holidays, Henry took a liking to their poor cat. If I took my eyes off of the two for just a second, H would grab a handful of kitty's hair. Kitty was such a sport about it, though, and I think that's *very* important when it comes to a pet sharing a home with young children. Our male pug (a rescue) is such a gentle soul and truly loves the baby. I have a photo of the two of them sharing my MILs chest/lap- our pug's head resting on H's tush. It's adorable.

NEL- Unfortunately, we didn't adopt Sally from the most respectable of breeders. Not quite backyard breeders, but they wouldn't make an AKC-supported list. She had Giardia when we adopted her.

When I tried to contact them, simply asking them to warn the parents of the other puppies from her litter, they avoided and ignored me. If we decide that re-homing is best, I'll be contacting a pug rescue group who'll screen potential owners and find the best home (no young children, possibly only dog) for her. It's incredibly important to me that she'd be placed in a stable, loving home.

 

[Maisie]

I can understand where you are coming from. We adore our dog. She is the most loving and cute girl ever. She looks after our son when he is sick. Seriously. She sits by his side and its like she is his mummy! (see attached picture). James also sits in her bed with her when he is watching tv. She doesn''t care and just moves over to give him room! I would hate it if her behaviour ever changed because it would be awful to have to rehome her.

I hope you can find some way of fixing this situation. I believe it is possible to retrain her but it will take time and committment. I know you supervise your son and will continue to do so. He is the most important person here. You alone can make this decision. Good luck!

 

[Erin]

Date: 1/15/2010 2:00:44 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

I put more stock in innate disposition than I do in environmental shaping.

Me too. My friend''s loyal, loving, obedient dog bit her 2 year old daughter and sliced her lower eyelid in half because he was lunging for her cookie. The dog didn''t mean to hurt her; it wasn''t an attack. It happens in the blink of an eye. Her daughter''s injury healed to almost invisibility and they put the dog down because they just couldn''t trust/risk again.

 

[Haven]

edited

Good luck with your pup, EBree. I'm sure you'll be able to find her a loving home if you go that route.

 

[elrohwen]

I would absolutely call a dog trainer. Her aggression sounds pretty bad and very ingrained - I don't think it's something you'll be able to manage yourselves.

Also, I would encourage you to read training books not written by Ceasar Milan. He's big on the whole alpha relationship, but newer research has shown that dogs do not think that way and training with the alpha in mind is not effective. Often, with aggressive dogs, trying to "put them in their place" will actually cause more aggressive behavior. Try to find a trainer who understands this and has experience with aggressive dogs.

eta: If you and your husband decide that rehoming is the best option, I wish you luck with that. I'm sure the last thing you want to do is rehome her, but clearly she is not happy around the baby and you can't put your child at risk. Some dogs *are* born with aggression; sometimes it is a personality trait and is not easy to just train out. From what you said about her breeders, it's possible that it's genetic (though this is generally rare).

 

[Blenheim]

Ebree, I''m really sorry that you''re in this position. We had to go through something similar about two months ago, and it''s just so hard. Pre-baby I would have said without a doubt that dogs are a lifetime commitment, but honestly you need to make sure that you protect that baby of yours. Especially once he''s crawling, he''s going to be able to quickly get across the room and start pulling out fists of dog hair or chewing on the dogs tail (from experience) and his face is going to be just at bite level, which is scary if you can''t completely trust your dog. They can do a ton of damage.

We made our decision after two years of training and then talking with rescue plus an animal behaviorist. I''d start by talking with a behaviorist or trainer, if you haven''t already. They may be able to help you get Sally to a point where she''s okay around kids, and if not you can at least feel that you exhausted options before rehoming.

A couple of things that my aunt (who runs a local rescue) told me, that helped:

You don''t need to make a decision right now. It''s okay to give it some time and think on it.
Trust your gut; you have it for a reason.

Best of luck to you.

 

[elrohwen]

EBree is it possible to baby gate Sally away from yoru son for now? If you can successfully separate them, it will give you more time to think and get a trainer in. Even if you decide to re-home, I would talk to a trainer and get some ideas you can pass on to the new owners.

For re-homing, I would look into pug specific rescues. Often breed rescues are fantastic and they can help find a new home for her while she lives with you (as opposed to putting her in a shelter, which I'm sure you wouldn't want to do).

 

[Haven]

EBree--May I ask where you live? I know a lot of great people who foster here in Illinois, if you''re within driving distance perhaps I could help you out if you decide to find a new home for Sally.

 

[lyra]

Rehome her. You don''t need justification from anyone else. While I think you could have done things differently with her from the start, the fact is now she is in the situation where she represents a danger to your son. It''s not an easy situation, but take the time to find a good home for her. Perhaps there is a Pug rescue club near you that can advise. You''ll never be completely comfortable with this dog. Give her a chance for a better life with someone who has the time and skill to train her properly. Lots of dogs do better in homes without small children.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/15/2010 12:11:11 PM
Author: lyra
Rehome her. You don''t need justification from anyone else. While I think you could have done things differently with her from the start, the fact is now she is in the situation where she represents a danger to your son. It''s not an easy situation, but take the time to find a good home for her. Perhaps there is a Pug rescue club near you that can advise. You''ll never be completely comfortable with this dog. Give her a chance for a better life with someone who has the time and skill to train her properly. Lots of dogs do better in homes without small children.

Agree. Most of the moms here pre-baby would have given you the "commitment for a lifetime" two cents. It''s not. Once there is a child in the family, the dog doesn''t have status over the child, period. If the dog is a threat, the dog goes. And it''s obvious from the moms here who have gone through dealings with aggressive dog that things change once you have a child (assuming the dog is aggresive), and anyone without a child couldn''t possibly understand that.

 

[Mara]

eBree, as someone who adores her dog and is about to pop out a kid, I am so sad to read your post (and it kind of freaks me out).

I would try everything I could to retrain the dog before re-homing her. But if you do need to re-home her, don't beat yourself up about it, just find her a good home and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

Cesar whateverhishame is says No bad dogs, just bad owners. And I tend to agree. Dogs do what they are allowed to. We have a friend who had a dog that would not listen to her, be aggressive, pee on her bed etc, but when he came to our house he was so good, and it was because he KNEW in our house he could never get away with what he got away with at home. I do think that for some breeds there are inherent traits that are very hard to 'train out'...I am not sure what pugs are like but I know for Westies they say don't ever let them off leash because their 'chase' instinct takes priority over anything they have ever learned. And we have seen that sometimes with our dog, hundreds of years of training to chase just kind of glaze over her eyes if she sees a squirrel.

Unfortunately, your girl has had lots of time to hone her bad habits, it may be harder to retrain her. But I think it's possible...however you really do have to mentally commit to that and you may not be willing to, it would take a lot of time and patience on your end. Dog training needs total consistency and you can't slip up for a minute, esp if it's correcting aggressive behaviors.

Good luck whatever you decide...I hope things improve or you can come to some type of conclusion that sits will with you and the hub.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Ebree-I am sorry that you are in this situation. I would try a profesisonal dog trainer, never leave the pup unsupervised with the baby (not even for a second), have a no food except the high chair rule, and start looking for a new home.

I best Sally isn''t happy and while dogs are a lifetime commitment (I have one too who I

very much) so are children, and children trump dogs every time. NO exceptions.

if you think there is even a slight chance that Sally will bite the baby (which sounds like an excellent chance given her history of biting you and your husband) then you need to find her a new child-free home. ASAP.

I''m not trying to freak you out, but this is a really dangerous situation.