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Advice: Royal Asscher (1.93 carat, D, VVS2)

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fanboy

Shiny_Rock
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Hi, I''m getting ready to propose to my girlfriend this summer. I''ve been looking for Royal Asschers and finally located something at the right price, approximating the size, color, and clarity level I wanted. It''s 1.93 carats, D color, and VVS2 clarity. It''s 7.0X mm x 7.0X mm.

The thing is, I was originally looking for a D IF diamond and would have been willing to sacrifice size. I''d probably have to wait for 1.7-8 carat stone to show up.

So, I''m interested in opinions.

1. Is it worthwhile to move down in size to step up to an IF?
2. Would a 1.7-8 carat Royal Asscher look too small?
3. Should I just feel lucky to have found what I did? Is the demand for Royal Asschers high enough such that I shouldn''t bother waiting for something else?
4. What price would you estimate for this diamond?

Thanks so much--I''ve learned a lot from this forum and I''m excited about finally proposing. All candid opinions are welcome!


Fanboy
 
I can answer a few.

1. VVS2 is FINE even for an asscher. They already face up so small that I would not go up in clarity and get a smaller size. Anywhere in the VVS2 range is not visible at all to the naked eye, so you're talking about paying for something you can't see, and trading it for something you can (size). Don't do it.
2. It depends on your definition of "too small". I think it's a great size, but do remember that a 2 ct. round will face up at almost 8.5x8.5 (I think), so it will LOOK considerably smaller than a 2 ct. round.
3. If you love the stone, take it. If you aren't "mind clean" about it, then wait. But if you know you love it and the price is right for you, then keep it or else you might be kicking yourself later.

Hope that helps!
 
1. VVS2 is a very high level of clarity -- even a jeweler would have trouble finding any flaw with a loupe.

2. Even your 1.9+ Royal Asscher is only going to look as big as a one carat Round Brilliant cut stone ... if face up size is a big concern you might want to consider going to an "e" or "f" color - or even lower clarity ... OR ...checking out NON-branded asscher stones with similar dimensions to Royal Asschers (there is NO truth to the belief that "Royal Asschers" are the only "real" Asschers -- original asscher cut stones ... antiques ... were cut like more like some non-branded asschers than the recently trademarked "royal asscher")

3. Royal Asschers are hard to find. If you must have "Royal" your choices are very limited.

4. Yikes -- price of a just under 2ct D, VVS2 RA -- $25-30k?? But it''s just a sheer guess.
 
Hi, Fanboy...I can address only one of your questions, and of course it''s only my opinion:

1. Is it worthwhile to move down in size to step up to an IF?
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I don''t think it''s worthwhile to move down in size to get an IF. In fact, because all asschers face up smaller, I''d probably lower my color/clarity expectations and move UP in size. D, VVS is, IMO, overkill.

I do realize that some people do place high value on super high grades...obviously you do...and the stone you''re considering does indeed sound special..

widget
 
Hi! I just wanted to chime in on the whole clarity/color thing.

I have an F VS1 generic asscher... and you can NOT tell the difference between mine and a VVS-- even with a loupe my inclusions are impossible to find! As for D-F... When they were unmounted, and face down-- you could tell the difference between my F and a D. Now... forgetaboutit. I have a ''high'' F... and mounted, you just cannot tell. It''s white white.
 
If what you want is a D IF so you can say you have a D IF (this is important as heck to some) then I would wait until you have a D IF. If having a D IF is not specifically something you want, you just want "the best" then I would go for an F VS1 and go as big as I could! :D
 
Before I found PS, I upgraded to a princess 1.77 E VVS2. It''s beautiful and I love it, but after seeing a well cut G VS2 asscher, I realized that I it looked very white as well, except when I put it beside my E. In choosing the E VVS, I think it was a "mind clean" stone I was looking for, but because asschers face up so small, I would sacrifice a little on colour and clarity-- no lower than G VS2-- to get a larger size.

Try to do colour comparisons to find out what your colour tolerance level is before you make that final decision. Happy hunting
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I have a 7.3x7.3 square emerald, vs1 and it is clear as a bell. I would've been very disappointed if my dh would have sacrificed any more size for the "highest" quality---asschers face up small enough as it is---but that is only my opinion. I would absolutely look at generic asschers, too--you may get a lot more for your money. I would've loved the fact that my dh wanted the best for me, but stepping down to a or vs1 or vs2 is not shabby at all. You have to take into consideration the shrinkage disease--- It may not be politically correct, but many woman suffer silently for years with it. When in doubt (with quality in mind, of course), go bigger!! BTW--some people consider if, vvs1 stones investment grade--and do not wear them on a reular basis!
 
Date: 4/30/2007 1:31:13 PM
Author: Gypsy
Hi! I just wanted to chime in on the whole clarity/color thing.

I have an F VS1 generic asscher... and you can NOT tell the difference between mine and a VVS-- even with a loupe my inclusions are impossible to find! As for D-F... When they were unmounted, and face down-- you could tell the difference between my F and a D. Now... forgetaboutit. I have a ''high'' F... and mounted, you just cannot tell. It''s white white.
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Ditto, I think VVS is still overkill. You could save a ton of money by going down to VS with no visual difference.
 
The stone sounds wonderful, but I wouldn''t want a smaller asscher. As others said, you wouldn''t be able to look at an E VS1 next to that one and be able to tell the difference. But you do have to pick from what is available, so that one could be your best bet. I personally wouldn''t want to sacrifice size to get D color as E and F color are extremely white as well. I think VVS2 or VS1 is great in an asscher, so I don''t have a problem with the clarity.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I suppose a move up in size is feasible: but I admit it''s hard for me to get over the psychological road block regarding the clarity.

Will a 7 x 7mm asscher really appear that small? I was offered this diamond at a final price of $29,900--reasonable?

I do prefer the Royal Asscher cut over the generic asscher cut, as I don''t like the ''bow-tie'' effect.

Also, I was considering using Leon Mege in NYC for the custom setting. Is there anyone else I should consider? Price isn''t important.

Thanks!
 
Date: 5/1/2007 11:44:16 AM
Author: fanboy
Thanks for all the replies. I suppose a move up in size is feasible: but I admit it''s hard for me to get over the psychological road block regarding the clarity.


Will a 7 x 7mm asscher really appear that small? I was offered this diamond at a final price of $29,900--reasonable?


I do prefer the Royal Asscher cut over the generic asscher cut, as I don''t like the ''bow-tie'' effect.


Also, I was considering using Leon Mege in NYC for the custom setting. Is there anyone else I should consider? Price isn''t important.


Thanks!
Click to expand...

I can''t speak to the price of the stone, but by all means YES go with Leon!!! He is fabulous.
 
Date: 5/1/2007 11:44:16 AM
Author: fanboy
Thanks for all the replies. I suppose a move up in size is feasible: but I admit it''s hard for me to get over the psychological road block regarding the clarity.


Will a 7 x 7mm asscher really appear that small? I was offered this diamond at a final price of $29,900--reasonable?


I do prefer the Royal Asscher cut over the generic asscher cut, as I don''t like the ''bow-tie'' effect.
Click to expand...

Have you seen up to VS2 clarity in person? I truly might be a "mind clean" issue. Cultural? I''d guess you''d be suprised at how wonderful non-VVS? stones look!

7 x 7 looking small -- well, most people are used to judging stone size by Round Brilliant standards .. and Asschers do look much much smaller because of their depth. How "small" your stone will look depends on a lot of other factors: How big are her friends stones? How large are her hands? What type of setting you select? etc etc

Well-cut "generic" Asschers do not have a bow-tie effect. In fact, some folks do cut "generics" to ALMOST the same specs as Royal Asschers -- without infringing on the patent.

For 30K you could get a nearly three carat "generic" asscher probably. But it''s up to you!
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I wish my problem was deciding between a 1.93ct D VVS and IF!!!
 
I prefer the Royal Asscher for the crown height and the extra facets that give it a more interesting look and more likely to have more sparkle. I have prefered some square cut emeralds, so I am not totally partial. But knowing that carat weight is just that WEIGHT, so with a high crown, you are looking at smaller LOOK...

Clarity is only important when reselling a stone of significant value, and a larger size. Personally, I have seen investment stones of lower clarity sell, but the size would have to be at least 3CT+, and in the end if you are buying it to keep it, get better color, or size than clarity, as going up in clarity costs more per jumpt then color.
 
fanboy, you dont mention if your FI really loves the Aschher cuts or what size her hand/finger is. Do you know what size ring she wears on her ring finger? I ask because it can make a lot of difference in this conversation. I wear a 7.75-8.0 ring and I can tell you that nothing less than 3 cts. in an Aschher/sq. EC looked big enough to give me the finger coverage I wanted (and I wasn''t looking for a LOOK AT ME! ring either!). I realized I couldn''t afford what I wanted so I went in a different direction (antique 2.5 ct. round). I''ve also always been a color/clarity snob but I wound up with an extraordinary I color stone that faces up white as ice, with VVS2 clarity and a cut that wont quit! I love it. My points are:

1. Are you sure your girl wants/cares about the cut/color/clarity in the same way you do, or would size be more important to her?

2. It IS possible to go lower in color, get bigger stones and still have a very white stone.

You have options! And money is no object so go forth and continue shopping...and have fun!
 
She''s a size 4-4.5. She''s a traditional kind of girl and doesn''t want to pick out her diamond or ring. She has, however, indicated that she liked the asscher cut when she saw one. All in all, she''s not very savvy about this stuff so I doubt she has many specific preferences. Really, I just want to get her the best I can with the knowledge that shes a stylish girl but doesn''t need to be showy and she would probably prefer quality over quantity (at least in other contexts).
 
I just can't imagine $30 k on a 7x7 stone----but that's just me and I am tainted because I am already wanting a bigger stone & I just got mine & wear a 4.5 sized ring. There are alot of asscher shrinkage threads around---they are just so pretty in the 3ct+ range and that would be easy to do in your price range.......I'm pretty sure you can avoid the "bowtie" effect if you specify your proportions......take a look at orange_horse_fiance's asscher.......
 
Ha, now I''m worried! 7 x 7 mm is really that small looking?
 
Date: 5/1/2007 3:06:57 PM
Author: fanboy
Ha, now I''m worried! 7 x 7 mm is really that small looking?
Click to expand...

Maybe this will help you compare ... Asscher size vs. other shapes you''re more used to seeing. Part of the appearance is an optical illusion ... Asschers are "inner focused" -- push your eye toward it''s center. Other shapes, like Rounds -- push your eye out to the EDGE of the stone, "outer focused".

chartjpg.jpg
 
7x7 is not small at all. BUT it is all about getting value for your $. All people are saying is that an asscher faces up smaller than say a round at the same carat weight, and if you decide that you don''t *NEED* a ROYAL asscher you could get a much bigger stone for the same $ without moving to another shape.

BUT if your GF is a "size girl" then a RB of the same carat weight as your asscher will LOOK a lot bigger and cost less than a branded Royal Asscher. That''s all. But a 2 ct. asscher is NOTHING to sneeze at. I''d say yes!
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Trust me...a two carat Royal Asscher (especially one mounted by Leon!) would look lovely on your GF''s petite finger!
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But if most of your friends, business associates, etc etc are spending the same amount of money on their ering diamonds, and they''re not asschers, and they''re graded a little lower, their''s will appear noticeably bigger. (I know this shouldn''t matter...but to some people it does.)

Oh heck...I can''t imagine a girl being disappointed with a two-carat RA. In years ahead, if she decides she needs bigger, you can always upgrade.

Good luck!
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Hey Fanboy ..

Check out this old thread where three folks who won a 2ct Daniel K Asscher ring converged on us DROOLING pricescopers. There are pix of a 2ct Asscher in there in a gorgeous setting.
 
Here''s another chart I always found interesting. (It''s old, so prices might not be accurate for today''s market) but it compares the visual face-up appearance of different cuts. All the examples cost the same, and had similar color/clarity stats:

vay655a.jpg
 
Date: 5/1/2007 3:35:33 PM
Author: widget
Trust me...a two carat Royal Asscher (especially one mounted by Leon!) would look lovely on your GF''s petite finger!
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But if most of your friends, business associates, etc etc are spending the same amount of money on their ering diamonds, and they''re not asschers, and they''re graded a little lower, their''s will appear noticeably bigger. (I know this shouldn''t matter...but to some people it does.)


Oh heck...I can''t imagine a girl being disappointed with a two-carat RA. In years ahead, if she decides she needs bigger, you can always upgrade.


Good luck!

widget
Click to expand...

i agree with widget. Most of the gals here are size driven (myself included) so it''s about finding the best bang for your buck to acheive the size one wants. going with any type of branded stone ususally isn''t where the bargin hunters go but I think the size of the stone on a 4-4.5 finger will be wonderful, especially in a Leon setting. I tried on a 1.5 carat cushion (which face up smaller like asschers) and it was a beautiful size on me and i wear about the same size are your GF. please post pictures if you get it!!
 
I agree that 7x7 is not small---but for 30k it is......be careful when you look at the charts---they often have 2ct asschers at 7.5mm as opposed to 7mm--which is the way they are often cut. The chart in Widget's post shows a 3ct. I guess it is really not as much about size, but about size for the $$$$. There are a few on PS that have especially good talents at helping people choose asschers and I wish I would have had help with mine. I'm sure the stone you are referring to is spectacular and will look beautiful. The pricetag for the RA brand just seems so high, relatively speaking.
 
On coverage

This has all been said above, but I think your post has totally made some of us start daydreaming ...if only we had your budget. Mainly, when people say 7 x 7 may be small, they do so because they dream of this type of coverage with an asscher:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thanks-for-all-that-made-this-possible-asscher.23556/

(orange horse's ring as described in another post)

If you look at that ring, and are like wow...i don't think she'd ever want a ring that took up that much of her finger. Than you're definitely all good with a 7 x 7.

However, if you think wow, that's perfectly proportioned! Then you'll at least have to up to a 7.5 x 7.5 to get that sort of coverage.

Hope that helps you in seeing where some of us are coming from! I'd walk into some B & M stores and ask to see square cut stones that are 7 by 7, that may give you a better idea.

On whether to consider what friends, coworkers, family members wear:

Keep in mind that its like a car purchase, you need to be somewhat cognizant of her friends and co-workers. All lay people notice is size of diamond, just like all lay people know about cars is make/model not engine specifics. So people will ooo and ahh over a BMW, even though "you" drive a car that has even better performance. Same that people will ooo and ahhh over a 2 ct round that's 8 x 8 , even though (imho) asschers have a lot more uniqueness etc. going for it. And as with cars, you tend to want the rings that the other people around you will like and accept, and size is the biggest factor in determining that. (i.e. too big for those around you and they start rolling their eyes, too small and people start giving you pitying looks. NOTE: this does not happen when comparing color (at least on the spectrum of D through I/J)..and there's really no way to compare clarity without getting some microscopes out).

If your gf is lucky enough to be independent from that, then don't worry about what her friends wear =)
 
Fanboy, I too had it in my mind that I wanted a very nice clarity stone. I had a VVS2 and after reading PS''ers I was able to trade it in for a VS2 and get a bigger stone. Even with my loupe, it''s hard to find the inclusions in my stone. I am soooo much happier with the size, and still have it very clean.
 
Hi fanboy, you should definitely take that asscher - don''t go down in size. My asscher is VVS2 and not only is it completely eyeclean, I can''t even see the clouding through a loupe. That said, I originally had a 1.64 carat asscher, but it faced up so small, everyone asked me if it was one carat. So, we traded it for a 2.2 carat asscher, which faces up like a 1.5 carat round, and it''s beautiful and the perfect size for my finger (size 5).

If I were you, I would definitely go with the one you''ve found - I promise that you won''t be able to see any flaw in the stone, and in a D color, it''s going to be stunning.
 
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