advice regarding antique French OMC ring?

[MiniMinerva]

Hi PS lovelies, I would really appreciate your advice please!

I just made a significant purchase (for me) and have finally joined your ranks with my first antique OMC ring! For anyone who was following, here is the original thread: 'Sako-sourced Late Victorian"Buttercup" ring hand-engraved "1889 Paris" *FEELERS*' https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ring-hand-engraved-1889-paris-feelers.283586/

The ring has arrived and she is gorgeous, but I am SO disappointed that I can’t wear her yet!! It turns out she is actually half a size smaller than the expected 5.5+ and my chunky knuckles are unforgiving, especially during the summer. It had felt like a Cinderella moment when I confirmed that the 5.5+ size of this ring was halfway between 5.5 and 5.75 and I got out my sizers to make sure that would slide over my knuckle and it did! Unfortunately, halfway between 5.25 and 5.5 is another story, and not of the fairy-tale variety I have tried cold water and soap and think I could get the ring on, but I worry that would be an emergency room visit waiting to happen.

I spoke with a local jeweler with the best reviews I could find to ask about resizing, and they told me that stretching was NOT an option for a ring with any stones. They would only stretch solid bands, and said that rings with diamonds would need to be cut and material added in between. I asked whether they would then be able to match the gold color as it is a French antique, with an antique natural old-cut diamond and date engraving and they started sounding concerned. I got the impression they don’t feel terribly comfortable with antiques and old-cut diamonds as they are “delicate”? Perhaps they have had some bad experiences with old-cut antique rings? They did give me a ballpark quote of $100 and told me they couldn’t guarantee the gold color would match where they added material since the ring is an antique alloy.

Does this information sound right to you all? And is that quote the expected going rate for slight resizing? It sounded like a lot to me, but perhaps that’s because I’m on a postdoc salary and the purchase itself has emptied my piggy bank. Although tiny for PS, this is actually my biggest diamond so far and I would love to wear it! I suppose I could wear the ring on a necklace but that just doesn’t give the same feels or sparkle.

Please if you have any advice, I would appreciate it. I’ve been feeling a little disappointed and frustrated, and also a bit envious of everyone’s slender beautiful hands!

 

[Lookinagain]

My first thought is that you shouldn't use that jeweler. My second thought was send it to Sako. But my third thought might be one that works for you. Perhaps a jeweler could shave out a bit of the gold from the inside of the shank? I think another PSer recently had that done. I guess it really depends on how much needs to be removed. Also, I'm surprised it couldn't be stretched a bit, but I've never had the need to investigate that. I would be very careful who I asked to do the work on the ring. It's a beautiful ring. I recall seeing it posted. Let's hope you can work this out. I'll see if I can figure out who had a ring shaved out a bit.

I'm pretty sure it was @Mreader who had the inside of a band shaved out a bit. Maybe she can fill you in on the process. If you only need a quarter of a size, it may be doable. I believe she had to go up more than that in size.

 

[Rfisher]

Echo to contact Sako, and be sure to tell him the ring was bought from someone who bought it from him.
It’s already been sized down from a 7.75.

If the match of gold and wanting to keep the engraving is a want
I’d sure contact him, at least for a quote (to compare with what you’ve already been given) or to see if he’s even available for the job.

I don’t think what you were quoted locally is terribly out of line - for what is available near me. If it requires more thought and planning and more careful execution on their part - it might cost more than a typical resize.
However you would be in a better position than I to sniff out if they really want to take the job on, under the specific circumstances.

Mandrel / ring sizers vary from one another sometimes - unfortunately.

 

[MiniMinerva]

My first thought is that you shouldn't use that jeweler. My second thought was send it to Sako. But my third thought might be one that works for you. Perhaps a jeweler could shave out a bit of the gold from the inside of the shank? I think another PSer recently had that done. I guess it really depends on how much needs to be removed. Also, I'm surprised it couldn't be stretched a bit, but I've never had the need to investigate that. I would be very careful who I asked to do the work on the ring. It's a beautiful ring. I recall seeing it posted. Let's hope you can work this out. I'll see if I can figure out who had a rings shaved out a bit.

Thank you!! I really appreciate your thoughts and they resonate with me. This beautiful ring deserves to be treated with the utmost respect and care! I didn’t have a good feeling about that jeweler’s response either, so your sense of that is validating. I think if possible I’d really prefer not to remove material, but it is good to know that is an option that could work if needed! The ring originally came from Sako and I would totally trust him to treat it well. If it wasn’t for the shipping costs to Sako I think that would be the very best option!

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

Sako - this was my first thought too

 

[MiniMinerva]

Echo to contact Sako, and be sure to tell him the ring was bought from someone who bought it from him.
It’s already been sized down from a 7.75.

If the match of gold and wanting to keep the engraving is a want
I’d sure contact him, at least for a quote or to see if he’s even available for the job.

I don’t think what you were quoted locally is terribly out of line - for what is available near me. If it requires more thought and planning and more careful execution on their part - it might cost more than a typical resize.
However you would be in a better position than I to sniff out if they really want to take the job on, under the specific circumstances.

Mandrel / ring sizers vary from one another sometimes - unfortunately.

Thank you for sharing your sense of this! I do want to make sure the gold matches and engraving doesn’t get abraded for this special piece. I am glad to know the quote is to be expected and in line with the work needed, as I haven’t had to seek resizing services before. I did get that Durston mandrel in the photo a while ago to double-check my sizers with the gold standard. I’ve heard of people stretching bands with them but I don’t know how to do it safely and the jeweler has spooked me with the risk to set stones. It sounds like Sako is the safest option.

 

[MiniMinerva]

Sako - this was my first thought too

Thank you! This seems like it’s becoming a consensus!


Does anyone know if there is a currently recommended method for safe shipping that isn’t terribly expensive?

 

[Lookinagain]

Does anyone know if there is a currently recommended method for safe shipping that isn’t terribly expensive?

A lot of people use Registered Mail. It takes longer but the insurance is less expensive and it's signed for along the way.

 

[MiniMinerva]

A lot of people use Registered Mail. It takes longer but the insurance is less expensive and it's signed for along the way.

Thank you! I think I remember hearing this recommended before too. I had also seen @yssie ‘s PSA about Registered Mail from late 2023 and worried that things might have changed for the worse more recently?
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...es-not-require-signature-for-delivery.280225/

 

[LightBright]

I’d love to see some more close ups of your stunning ring. It looks gorgeous.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

It's a stunning ring! Hmm, what are you in?
I used to ship Registered all the time to thailand for Sally to set things for me (now no longer in the business) and never lost anything, but I haven't done that since covid.
Depending on where you are, any chance you're driving distance to a jeweler that specifically works with antique/estate jewelry?

 

[MiniMinerva]

I’d love to see some more close ups of your stunning ring. It looks gorgeous.

Aww thank you!! She is truly a classic beauty and appreciates your kind words. I will try to take some nice shots that do her justice. I don’t know how you all on PS capture those amazing photos! It’s like my phone refuses to see the ring the way I do haha.

It's a stunning ring! Hmm, what are you in?
I used to ship Registered all the time to thailand for Sally to set things for me (now no longer in the business) and never lost anything, but I haven't done that since covid.
Depending on where you are, any chance you're driving distance to a jeweler that specifically works with antique/estate jewelry?

Thank you! I’m in the USA. Driving distance is a bit limited since I don’t own a car right now but share one to get to/from work. The jeweler I spoke with is among the bigger ones in the area and it sounded like they worked with estate jewelry so I thought it would be a good fit, but after speaking with them they seemed surprisingly nervous about risk to the “delicate” old stone and setting.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Does it fit any other finger?

I would also trust David Klass or Singlestone. Gary Roe (on IG) also does work like this. And Lang Antiques might help. Basically I’m saying to shop around and maybe there is someone you can drive to.

I wear a size 10.5 so don’t bemoan your finger size too loudly

 

[MiniMinerva]

Does it fit any other finger?

I would also trust David Klass or Singlestone. Gary Roe (on IG) also does work like this. And Lang Antiques might help. Basically I’m saying to shop around and maybe there is someone you can drive to.

I wear a size 10.5 so don’t bemoan your finger size too loudly

It is barely too small for my ring finger but far too large for my pinky. My knuckle is the troublemaker! If only I could just transport it to the other side. The rest of my fingers are thicker so it only fits as a midi ring on those.

Thank you for the trusted jeweler suggestions! This would be a lot easier if I owned a car, but my current work is a temporary gig by definition so I’ve been making do without one since I spend most of my time working anyway. I will try to keep looking into possible other local options. Worst case would be that I can’t wear the ring for now, and have to wait until life/work takes me to a location closer to one of the trusted jewelers if there is no good way to ship it safely.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Just insure it with Jewelers mutual and ship overnight using FedEx. Easy peasy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I might just stick my hands in a bowl of ice and jam it on

 

[glitterata]

It is not tiny for PS! There are plenty of lovely PS diamonds that are much smaller than that big, beautiful, more-than-three-quarters-of-a-carat diamond. I hope you get to wear it soon, but it will be worth the wait if there is one.

 

[MiniMinerva]

I might just stick my hands in a bowl of ice and jam it on

Ohhh this ring and I have already been there together in the ice water. We didn’t succumb to temptation today, but there’s always tomorrow…

It is not tiny for PS! There are plenty of lovely PS diamonds that are much smaller than that big, beautiful, more-than-three-quarters-of-a-carat diamond. I hope you get to wear it soon, but it will be worth the wait if there is one.

Aww thank you that is very kind! She is a lovely, elegant size and I’m glad to know she is in good company here. I’m trying to muster up all the patience I can to make sure she is treated well by the right person for a resize, even if that means I have to wait to wear her. I know she will be worth it and I’m still enjoying holding her in the light and getting to know her glittery nuances.

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Hey all!

Just chiming in as I have direct experience with this ring.

I think aforementioned jeweler made too much of a fuss about the sizing issue and may have stoked unnecessary worry.

Don’t let the Jeweler’s anxiety become your anxiety!

This is a very solid, durable and workable piece of jewelry.

I suspect the concern about working with an antique relates to the possibility of brittle alloys and/or porous castings, but that’s really more of an issue with platinum. Gold is quite workable and casts very clean.

Moreover, as far as I can tell, this ring was hand-forged and not cast. That fact makes all of the aforementioned concerns about working with an antique a non-issue.

Look at it under a loupe or a microscope. There is ZERO evidence of porosity, micro-cracking or other potential concerns.

She may be dainty, but she’s no fragile flower! Make no mistake: she is a very workable, solid hunk of metal!

As for matching the alloy, a 1/4 size increase equates to adding 0.5mm to the inside diameter. If there were any slight variation in color across a fraction of a millimeter, it would be impossible to detect once polished.

Shaving the inside of the ring is not an option as it would disturb the original engraving - and I am certain that it’s unnecessary.

While sending it to Sako is not a bad idea, I think it’s unnecessary and may take a long time. His cue is often quite long because he is so busy.

Try visiting another jeweler and mention that this piece was hand-forged, not cast.

Literally any reasonably competent jeweler should be able to size the ring quickly and with essentially zero risk.

I know this ring quite well, and I have absolute confidence that sizing it will be a breeze!

Rest easy. She won’t let you down. In fact, she it certain to outlive all of us…and already has!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

^^ tat all makes good sense

 

[Dr_Diesel]

a 1/4 size increase equates to adding 0.5mm to the inside diameter.

CLARIFICATION: it’s a 0.5mm increase in INSIDE diameter (15.9 vs 16.4)

Assuming the band is 3mm thick, this means the outside circumference will increase from 68.8mm to 69.74mm - so just under 1mm of filling.

 

[MiniMinerva]

Hey all!

Just chiming in as I have direct experience with this ring.

I think aforementioned jeweler made too much of a fuss about the sizing issue and may have stoked unnecessary worry.

Don’t let the Jeweler’s anxiety become your anxiety!

This is a very solid, durable and workable piece of jewelry.

I suspect the concern about working with an antique relates to the possibility of brittle alloys and/or porous castings, but that’s really more of an issue with platinum. Gold is quite workable and casts very clean.

Moreover, as far as I can tell, this ring was hand-forged and not cast. That fact makes all of the aforementioned concerns about working with an antique a non-issue.

Look at it under a loupe or a microscope. There is ZERO evidence of porosity, micro-cracking or other potential concerns.

She may be dainty, but she’s no fragile flower! Make no mistake: she is a very workable, solid hunk of metal!

As for matching the alloy, a 1/4 size increase equates to adding 0.5mm to the inside diameter. If there were any slight variation in color across a fraction of a millimeter, it would be impossible to detect once polished.

Shaving the inside of the ring is not an option as it would disturb the original engraving - and I am certain that it’s unnecessary.

While sending it to Sako is not a bad idea, I think it’s unnecessary and may take a long time. His cue is often quite long because he is so busy.

Try visiting another jeweler and mention that this piece was hand-forged, not cast.

Literally any reasonably competent jeweler should be able to size the ring quickly and with essentially zero risk.

I know this ring quite well, and I have absolute confidence that sizing it will be a breeze!

Rest easy. She won’t let you down. In fact, she it certain to outlive all of us…and already has!!!

Thank you for all that information! I don’t know a lot about construction but it does seem possible the jeweler was worried about something they saw due to some bad experience they had with an antique piece in the past.

I’ll give some thought to what feels most right to respect this beautiful and unique ring, even if that requires patience. I do think it’s important to ensure that whoever works on her feels comfortable and confident that they can do a good job — for everyone’s sake! I will pass along the detailed information you provided and hopefully that will help.

 

[Mreader]

It was me who had the inside shaved but that was an eternity band with diamonds all the way around. This does not look complicated so I would definitely find a different jeweler as others had recommended.

 

[Rfisher]

I’ll give some thought to what feels most right to respect this beautiful and unique ring, even if that requires patience. I do think it’s important to ensure that whoever works on her feels comfortable and confident that they can do a good job — for everyone’s sake! I will pass along the detailed information you provided and hopefully that will help

IMO
If you have to talk into, educate much about, or convince a jeweler to do something -
It won’t go that well.
Unless it’s an agreed upon learning project for all involved, and the redos and or ultimate fail isn’t that big of a deal.


One way to think about this, OP,
Whether seeing the different alloy used
(And what degree of different? They used 14/18 modern yellow or tried to match better with a niche ‘ antique’ alloy? ) and even tho it’s the above estimate of 1mm insert -
Let’s pretend with a made up scenario.
If you bought an antique ring described as this one was - but the different color sizing wasn’t shown nor disclosed - how would you feel once you saw it - long term?
It’s ok, or it’s a shame someone else decided it didn’t matter, and the fix is an even bigger project?

As long as you are satisfied with the outcome- that’s what matters.

 

[MiniMinerva]

IMO
If you have to talk into, educate much about, or convince a jeweler to do something -
It won’t go that well.
Unless it’s an agreed upon learning project for all involved, and the redos and or ultimate fail isn’t that big of a deal.


One way to think about this, OP,
Whether seeing the different alloy used
(And what degree of different? They used 14/18 modern yellow or tried to match better with a niche ‘ antique’ alloy? ) and even tho it’s the above estimate of 1mm insert -
Let’s pretend with a made up scenario.
If you bought an antique ring described as this one was - but the different color sizing wasn’t shown nor disclosed - how would you feel once you saw it - long term?
It’s ok, or it’s a shame someone else decided it didn’t matter, and the fix is an even bigger project?

As long as you are satisfied with the outcome- that’s what matters.

Thank you so much for your helpful and supportive perspective, @Rfisher , it really helped me feel better. I don’t have many antique pieces yet, so this first antique OMC is special to me and I don’t have the budget or stomach for redos or fails right now. I also don’t have the disposition to educate or convince a jeweler and am much more comfortable deferring to their expertise.

As for the hypothetical scenario, I know myself to be quite color-sensitive (including to the pink/yellow/green nuances of gold color) and my eyesight is still sharp for now, so I do speculate that even a 1 mm stripe of a different color gold would likely bother me. I actually have returned a gold stacking band due to a visible sizing stripe that was not much thicker if at all (I knew as soon as I opened the package and there was a return policy). I haven’t needed to seek resizing before because I double-check and rule out of consideration rings that won’t fit any of my fingers. I have one inherited ring that is a little too big during the coldest part of winter but I have opted for a seasonal ring snuggie over resizing. Unaltered, the ring being discussed here will likely slide over my knuckle during this same part of winter, but that would limit me to wearing it comfortably only during a small fraction of the year.

I had the opportunity to speak with a different local jeweler today about the ring. They were absolutely lovely and patient with me, and honest in telling me why they didn’t feel comfortable with taking on the job. They also know the first jeweler I spoke with and had only glowing things to say about their competence, should I decide to proceed with the quote I was given.

It seems the issue of concern regarding this antique piece was not the metal — gold or platinum, cast or forged — at all. The delicacy and risk is primarily due to the potential of damage to the antique old mine cut diamond. Many here on PS would have understood the shop-talk much better than I did, but my takeaway was that these old stones often have girdle edges that are very thin, as well as preexisting chips and weaknesses from wear, which can make them susceptible to damage during the normal and necessary process of working on the piece. This is also true for this particular diamond, having an “extremely thin to very thick” girdle with marks from a previous life. The potential for irreversible damage to antique diamonds means that jewelers have to assess each piece on a case-by-case basis. The jeweler I spoke with today mentioned they have sometimes worked on pieces with bezeled antique diamonds, for instance, but even that depends on other aspects as well.

The short of it is that if any damage to these antique, one-of-a-kind diamonds were to occur, there would be no way for the jeweler to truly make the client whole. On the other hand, modern round brilliants and modern old-cut-style stones are simultaneously less susceptible to damage and more replaceable should something unpredictable occur. Thus, some jewelers prefer not to take on pieces with the more delicate antique diamonds, even when the metal setting is workable.

I think people (including the very human jewelers!) can vary a lot in their risk tolerances and preferences regarding outcomes and it is important to me to respect that too. Finding the right jeweler for the jewel and jewel-wearer is a three-way partnership and each situation is different. I can certainly empathize with a local small business that wants to minimize risk, and I trust them more for saying no when they can’t guarantee an outcome on this particular ring that would make me happy as a client.

 

[Lookinagain]

Just curious if you asked about shaving the inside down a bit while preserving the inscription? Just wondering if that would be possible. It would seem that would eliminate some of the risk as you wouldn't be cutting the band to add metal. You seem to need so little extra room.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I’ve had so many rings with old cut diamond worked on. It’s pretty wild to me how Jewelers are reacting to this one. Do you live in a small town?

 

[MiniMinerva]

Just curious if you asked about shaving the inside down a bit while preserving the inscription? Just wondering if that would be possible. It would seem that would eliminate some of the risk as you wouldn't be cutting the band to add metal. You seem to need so little extra room.

I could consider asking the first jeweler about this, as an alternative to the method they suggested. I think it would feel like pressuring the second jeweler to bring this up after our conversation today and I would hate to do that.

I’ve had so many rings with old cut diamond worked on. It’s pretty wild to me how Jewelers are reacting to this one. Do you live in a small town?

I currently live in a small town but work in a bigger one. The first jeweler is in the bigger town and is willing to work on the ring (gave me a quote) but didn’t seem especially friendly or encouraging. The second jeweler is closer to where I am staying and seemed helpful, transparent, and knowledgeable, but didn’t seem comfortable with working on this particular stone/ring. I got the sense from both that in the area there has been an increase in inquiries from younger people wanting work on antique pieces and diamonds, so those interactions may have shaped their responses. I could continue to try other jewelers nearby, or I could wait until I return home to a larger city for the holidays in December and find someone who might hopefully be a better fit (transportation would be a lot easier for me when I am home). I could also insure/FedEx it to someone like Sako or similar, as you had suggested, which may end up being the option to come back to!

 

[Dreamer_D]

All good options. ETA I just want to add that it’s not weird that you might send it off to an expert to size. I would do the same with a truly treasured piece.