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Advice please. Whiteflash ungraded melee or Brian Gavin graded stones?

G

Guestfloater

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
5
Hi everyone!

I’m new to the forum but would really appreciate some advice on buying a 5 stone ring. My ring finger is approx 4.75 and I am thinking about purchasing the Whiteflash trellis setting and going with their A Cut Above 0.25 F/G VS melees (1.25 ct total). Only issue with that is their representative said that melee stones 0.25 and under are not screened for synthetic stones as that would not be cost effective.

Because I hear that synthetics have been infiltrating the melee market I am now looking at picking some 0.25 stones from Brian Gavin and setting it into their Nightingale setting instead, although it looks like their selection of stones are not so good at the moment. I am looking at G-H stones so hopefully it will not look too out of place with my E engagement ring. Finally, I figure I can always pick up some stones from James Allen and just buy the setting separately.

So here is my question... does anyone have any experience working with Whiteflash and if so how are the quality of their melees? Would you recommend just trusting that they have reliable suppliers and go with their ungraded stones or would you purchase graded stones then have then set separately? Also, if I wanted a little versatility to wear the band on my right hand (size 5) do you think bumping the stones to 0.3 would be too big or uncomfortable? I work with my hands a lot typing all day and would appreciate something comfortable. Thank you in advance for all your assistance and input.

https://www.whiteflash.com/right-hand-rings/5-stone-trellis-diamond-right-hand-ring-2333.htm
 
I would trust WF. I have a .75 7 stone Band from WF and it’s amazing!
 
I 100% trust WF. It isn't common for .25 and smaller diamonds to be individually graded. Many, many people here have had bands made by them, and I have a long diamonds-by-the-yard necklace and bracelet from WF and I have total confidence in the quality of the diamonds.

As to size, if you went with .3 stones, I think they'd need to be set low. I'd personally want a lower setting than the trellis, but it might work. I am sure there are pictures around here of 5 stone rings that would help you decide on stone size, but I can't look right at the moment.
 
I completely trust Whiteflash. I have several Whiteflash bands with ACA melee and they all look fabulous.
 
Just a point of clarification concerning the issue of screening for synthetics. I think the Whiteflash consultant probably meant that because the diamonds did not have a lab report that they are not ‘certified’ to be natural. However, the diamonds ARE in fact screened very carefully at the manufacturer level.

Guestfloater, you are correct that it is in the small non-certified goods that the biggest risk of contamination with synthetics occurs. We have asked for and received extremely detailed information from our manufacturer regarding their procedures for protecting us and our customers against this threat. In addition to robust procedures for screening their rough, polished goods are screened with the same equipment used in the labs. Two types of devices are employed- DiamondSure for testing stones of .30ct and up, and Automated Melee Screening (AMS) for testing diamonds of .29ct and below.

Securing their supply chain is one of the most important things that major diamond manufacturers must do to protect the integrity of their businesses. Likewise, it is critical for any diamond merchant to know their suppliers well and to understand their processes for ensuring their products are ethically sourced and accurately identified.
 
I hate to share this, but you wouldn't ever see a difference. Lab stones are not lower quality, and the differences are only detectable with extremely specialized equipment. Of course both lab stones and mined stones come in a range of quality, and when you are cheating people, you don't bother cheating them with the good stuff.

As Texas Leaguer says, this is not going to be an issue with a respectable provider like Whiteflash.
 
I just want to say thank you to everyone who took some time to respond to my question. I don’t buy diamonds often so I find your collective knowledge very helpful, especially Texas Leaguer’s detailed post regarding the distribution process and screening procedures. I was not aware of the evaluation process that all stones go through including melees. Prior to beginning my search I was not even familiar with the major online diamond retailers, so hearing everyone’s experience and outcome with their purchases was quite helpful.


Anyways, it looks like many people here have had positive experiences with Whiteflash, so that makes my decision quite a bit easier. I frankly would like something that just looks nice without being overly complicated. Since I think I am going to go with their 1.25 ct melees I won’t need to shuffle through stone after stone looking for ones that match. Thanks everyone!
 
ChristineRose said:
I hate to share this, but you wouldn't ever see a difference. Lab stones are not lower quality, and the differences are only detectable with extremely specialized equipment. Of course both lab stones and mined stones come in a range of quality, and when you are cheating people, you don't bother cheating them with the good stuff.

As Texas Leaguer says, this is not going to be an issue with a respectable provider like Whiteflash.
Click to expand...

CrystalRose, I think what you said makes a lot of sense. If trained gemologists cannot tell the difference between natural and synthetic stones I don’t stand a chance even if I had access to high tech equipment. Frankly, synthetic diamonds are still diamonds and if people want to purchase synthetic stones they should be able to have that option. I personally just believe that they should be clearly labeled as such when presented to potential customers.

I recently read this article which had me wondering just how much undisclosed synthetic melees were “out there”, especially among stores without the kind of rigorous control process that Texas Leaguer mentioned. Again, I have no issues with people buying synthetic stones and I am sure that a well cut synthetic would be just as beautiful as a natural diamond, if not more so. It’s just that if I am going to be spending a few thousand dollars on a ring that I will be wearing for a long time, then I really think I should have an idea of what I am actually buying.

Also, sites like Brilliant Earth that sell both natural and synthetic diamonds often do not have the option to let their users see the actual stone, just a representation that may or may not reflect on the true quality of their cut. To really evaluate a diamond it seems people don’t really have a lot of options besides shopping at natural diamonds sites, either that or have the stones shipped in for evaluation. Maybe I have not looked at enough sites but hopefully that will change so people can have more options in the future.

http://www.nationaljeweler.com/diam...ts-101-undisclosed-synthetics-in-melee-parcel
 
I wholeheartedly agree that there is a place for synthetic diamonds in the jewelry industry. Corundum (ruby and sapphire) was synthesized around the turn of last century and made a nice permanent place for itself in the market. Synthetic diamond will no doubt do the same.

It is critical however that consumers know exactly what they are buying, because there are important emotional and financial differences. Synthetic rubies eventually fell to pennies per carat, yet natural mined rubies continue to become more valuable and expensive. And when commemorating a special life event, most people will always want to do it with a rare and precious natural gem.

The other problem I have with the current direction of the synthetic diamond market is their attempt to position the product as a 'socially responsible' alternative to mined diamonds. In so doing they tend to demonize an industry that benefits some of the most vulnerable communities worldwide, often providing them with their only means to an income and access to health care and education for their children. Successes in countries like Botswana demonstrate what is possible through dedicated beneficiation strategies.

Revenues flowing into the synthetic market on the other hand, primarily benefits a handful of highly paid scientists and investors. Which industry is really more beneficial to society?

They need to stick to selling their value proposition without disparaging an entire industry by making false claims about the negative impacts on society of the natural diamond industry.
 
I agree that there needs to be full disclosure and that no one should ever be tricked into buying a synthetic.

I'm less impressed with how the jewelry industry has handled this though. There seems to be a widespread belief that synthetics are going to ruin the industry. The thing is, they've been saying this for decades now, and the price of synthetics is maybe 25% below the price of mined. Diamonds just aren't that easier to make. As Texas Leaguer points out, synthetic rubies and sapphires have been commercially available for 100 years. What may not be obvious is that people were trying to make diamonds 100 years ago as well, and they couldn't do it.

The market for synthetics is well..ugly. Most synthetics turn out to be fakes. Cremation diamonds are a fraud. Most respectable jewelers won't touch lab stones and commonly lie about their quality. Even the honest companies are selling their stones as not being conflict diamonds--technically true but pretty misleading. Most of the growers have gone back to making industrial stones because there's no profit in gems.

I guess what I'm saying is that if there were an honest market for synthetic melee the prices of certified natural and synthetic melee would hopefully stabilize and customers would get to make an informed choice. I suppose there have always been and always will be crooks though. (Sigh)
 
ChristineRose,
I hear what you are saying. But the pace of technology today is such that in relatively short order the synthetic growers will get very efficient and the material will become much more available and much, much cheaper.

I think there will be a large market for synthetics in the fashion jewelry market. And I am fine with that. Pricepoint jewelry will probably get a whole lot prettier!

Yes, there will always be the fraudsters, and hard to detect synthetic diamonds are going to keep jewelers on their toes. And the gem labs in business!

It will be interesting to watch. But a couple of things I am sure of: 1) availability of synthetics will not spell the end of the natural diamond market and 2) There will never be any stored value in a man-made product with limitless supply potential.
 
There is so much that could be talked about re: MMD vs Mined!

I guess a lot of the worries of the (existing, mined-based) industry is that no-one knows what the markets will do, and they are running scared of the unknown.

I mean, if D IF MMDs with AGS000 cut are being knocked out from 0.1ct to 10ct like 2x4 from a lumbar yard and priced by the lb, will that mean a whole lot better jewellery for bargain prices?
Will that mean demand for Mined decreases or increases?
Will people think 'No-one can tell the difference without a $$$$$ machine so why pay thousands when I can buy something for hundreds or less, that looks identical to the naked eye?', or will the rarity of mined stones mean their perceived value increases, and hence demand stays flat or increases, rather than dropping off a cliff?
Will 'standard' MRB cuts become boring and demand for novel / top-performing alternative cuts increase?
Or will the world be so awash with glittering balls of fire of all shapes and sizes that people will grow tired of diamonds completely?

I guess, for me, melee diamonds don't really matter in terms of MMD vs Mined - they are both quite low cost, both look the same, and I would not think melee in and of itself would be the rock(s) that represents an emotional and physical union, so does it really matter, as long as it is known? (or even unknown!)
 
WF 1.27ct 5 stone ring
size 4.75, 4mm wide shank.
F/G color VS clarity
(5) ideal 0 proportion
weight... (2) .26ct (3) .25ct
tan-ring-jpg.25476

1.15ct.JPG
 
All of you brought up some interesting points, but I think OoohShiny hit the nail right on the head with the statement that the existing diamond industry just doesn’t seem to know quite what to do with the nascent synthetics industry or what it will do to the market. Natural stones have been the norm for generations and now synthetics are suddenly catching up in quality, though their marketing seems to be somewhat lacking at least at this time. With both industries competing for customers it’s not surprising that there’s some extremes in marketing on both sides. The truth is probably somewhere closer to the middle.

The way I see it, Texas Leaguer is again right in that there will always be a place for natural diamonds. Synthetics will likely also find their place just as synthetic sapphires have. I was wondering why there were so few emerald rings until I found out that not only were they softer stones, but natural emeralds also tend to have inclusion issues. That being said natural emeralds remain very much in demand in jewelry overall, perhaps just not rings.

It seems to be the same with sapphires. There are some beautifully colored synthetic sapphires online, but the natural sapphires always seem to command a premium even if their color is not as nice and there are inclusions in the stones.

To each their own I say. I just don’t expect people to grow tired of diamonds, synthetic or not anytime soon. CZ has been around for decades and I still see them practically everywhere. There are also emerging markets in other parts of the world that are fast becoming consumers of luxury goods. Natural diamonds are unlikely to be able to keep up with demand, so I suspect those stones will continue to be a valued commodity in the near future. There’s probably room in the market for both depending on the customer’s preference, budget, and demographics. Now if only they will stop disparaging each other, practice some honest business disclosures, and focus on building their customer base we may all be a bit better off.
 
Oh my goodness Dancing Fire that ring is absolutely gorgeous! You must have spent quite a lot of time and effort selecting your individual stones, or at least the 0.26s. Whiteflash does not seem to give people the option of selecting stones 0.25 or below like BGD or James Allen. I’m pretty much going by the advice of fellow PSers and their experience with Whiteflash so far.

The sharpness and contrast on that middle stone is amazingly. You must have one awesome camera and very steady hands too to capture the details on that ring. Assuming that the other stones are cut just like the one in the middle your ring would be the most beautiful five stone band I’ve ever seen.

Thank you for sharing. I don’t know if the other ACA melees are like that but if they can achieve that level of detail on all their ACAs then their reputation is well earned. No wonder so many PS members seem to have jewelry made by them. Wow!
 
DF can correct me if I am wrong, but those likely are the ACA ungraded melee stones that he did not individually select.
 
Guestfloater said:
Oh my goodness Dancing Fire that ring is absolutely gorgeous! You must have spent quite a lot of time and effort selecting your individual stones, or at least the 0.26s. Whiteflash does not seem to give people the option of selecting stones 0.25 or below like BGD or James Allen. I’m pretty much going by the advice of fellow PSers and their experience with Whiteflash so far.
Click to expand...
The stones were hand pick by BG when he was with WF. The photos on top are from WF.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
DF can correct me if I am wrong, but those likely are the ACA ungraded melee stones that he did not individually select.
Click to expand...
Yes, ungraded 1/4 ct ACAs. I ask BG to pick the nicest ones they have from their inventory.
 
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