Advice on Shane Co. Setting + GOG Brellia Center Stone

[Niel]

i agree you dont have to be exclusively looking at branded stone, i know this one is too small, but just an example of what you can find out in the wild

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/0.50-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-144438

 

[diamondseeker2006]

(Lula, I do sometimes recommend ideal cut rounds that are not hearts and arrows quality because of budget, so we definitely agree on that. But in that case, there isn't usually any sacrifice on the actual appearance of the diamond. I have done that today, if fact. And certainly he may find a well cut generic cushion, but it isn't as easy as it is with rounds. I was just making the point that GOG and BG are the only two I know of who carry a line of H&A cushions because he said earlier in the thread that that was what he liked most. You mentioned ERD and DBL, but neither of them carry hearts and arrows cushions unless it is something really new. ERD only has three modern branded cushions in stock and they are 1.5-2 cts. And DBL's branded cushions are his yellow antique style cushions, as far as I know.)

GoSounders....the stone you linked on James Allen that was labelled a square radiant is the same cut as princess of hearts. So if you liked that, you definitely should consider princess of hearts. This one is graded ideal cut with ideal light performance by AGS. Don't overanalyze the ASET because this stone gets the highest marks on brightness, fire, and scintillation.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10156/

Here is a beautiful modern generic cushion if you want to go with a larger stone and can handle J color:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10696/

A good idea for you would be to get GOG to make a video for you of the Brellia, the generic cushion, and the PoH to give you an idea how they compare to each other. That is the best way to decide what you prefer short of going there to visit. They made a video for me a few months ago and it was extremely helpful as I had strong preferences based on the video that I might not have gained.

 

[GoSounders]

Here's a pertinent comparison of a Brellia vs a modern cushion, albeit larger than what I'm looking for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJn3r3Te_bU

Relatively, it's about equal to comparing a 0.7 Brellia to a 0.9 generic, right? While the generic is very nice, I would personally sacrifice the size of the generic for the symmetry and fire of the Brellia.

I like the PoH, but I don't prefer it, all other things being equal. The arrowtips at the 45 degree angles in the PoH get covered by a prong setting, and I find that mildly annoying. The cut does give up a tiny bit to the Brellia, and it isn't any cheaper on GOG, from what I see. There's also a Brellia vs PoH video out there.

The appeal of the 0.5ct PoH on James Allen was that it was very reasonably priced at $1100. If a similar stone was 5mmx5mm for say, $2000, or 5.5mmx5.5mm for $3000, I would've reserved it already. Alas, I think we could look for a long time and not find that.

 

[Haine]

Gosh, you know I spend a LOT of time on Rocky Talky, Lula, and I haven't seen that to be true at all. Most radiants are not going to have the light performance of a Brellia which are graded by AGS for ideal light performance. Good Old Gold and one other vendor are the only ones who produce ideal cut antique cushions, and it is not easy to find modern cushions with the light performance of those. I spend a fair amount of time helping people find generic cushions here, and it is hard to find them with ASETs close to the ones that are branded ideal cuts.

What other vendors besides Good Old Gold and BG are carrying square hearts and arrows? I can't even recall seeing a BG square hearts and arrows posted here (as in purchased), but if there have been any, it must be only a few.

My local jeweler carries Brellia too, and they serve overseas customers too. https://www.facebook.com/JannPaulDiamonds
Locally, their prices are the best for the quality they carry. And they just had a new shipment of Brellia last week which I picked from.

 

[Niel]

So I know you were against a round in a cushion halo, but I just want to bring them up again because a round will be easier to find, you can get a beautiful one that isn't branded so less expensive, and you can get a bigger CTW AND they look bigger.

Have you seen one in person?

 

[Niel]

For example this AGS 0

http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-81-Carat-I-color-AGSL-certified/D-GDH1F1

With a halo split shank halo like you like, but the shank is plain. That keeps the price down, helps it look a little like a solitaire (which might be nice sense she hasn't told you an exact thing she wants) and its easier to mix and match wedding bands.....

http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/french-set-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-in-14kt-white-gold/6114

And they will ship that ring to a local store that sells ritani, so you can see it in person before you commit.

 

[GoSounders]

For example this AGS 0

http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-81-Carat-I-color-AGSL-certified/D-GDH1F1

With a halo split shank halo like you like, but the shank is plain. That keeps the price down, helps it look a little like a solitaire (which might be nice sense she hasn't told you an exact thing she wants) and its easier to mix and match wedding bands.....

http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/french-set-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-in-14kt-white-gold/6114

And they will ship that ring to a local store that sells ritani, so you can see it in person before you commit.

I've seen rounds in cushion halos before, though not as nice as the one you link, which I feel has the perfect relative height between center stone and halo. With the halo, I don't feel as if a round will look any larger. This is also the reason I'm straying away from generic cushions. Yes, larger is better, but I feel the effect is very diminished in a halo setting (unless it's set high, which I don't want).

That stone is more than I'd spend on a Brellia, as well. If I were to choose a round, I'd want to go with something like this:
http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-62-Carat-I-color-GIA-certified/D-DFQ9J2
The $1000 savings makes a good case.

 

[Lula]

For example this AGS 0

http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-81-Carat-I-color-AGSL-certified/D-GDH1F1

With a halo split shank halo like you like, but the shank is plain. That keeps the price down, helps it look a little like a solitaire (which might be nice sense she hasn't told you an exact thing she wants) and its easier to mix and match wedding bands.....

http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/french-set-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-in-14kt-white-gold/6114

And they will ship that ring to a local store that sells ritani, so you can see it in person before you commit.

I've seen rounds in cushion halos before, though not as nice as the one you link, which I feel has the perfect relative height between center stone and halo. With the halo, I don't feel as if a round will look any larger. This is also the reason I'm straying away from generic cushions. Yes, larger is better, but I feel the effect is very diminished in a halo setting (unless it's set high, which I don't want).

That stone is more than I'd spend on a Brellia, as well. If I were to choose a round, I'd want to go with something like this:
http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-62-Carat-I-color-GIA-certified/D-DFQ9J2
The $1000 savings makes a good case.

If you're willing to go with a round diamond in a cushion-shaped halo instead of a cushion or square-hearts-and-arrows diamond, I think you've found a winning combo. The .62 in the Ritani setting that Niel linked would look very nice on a size 5-ish finger. Ritani is a very good brand, and the settings I've seen locally are of very high quality. Both the diamond and the setting will give you excellent value for your money. The plain shank will make sizing much easier. If your fiancee-to-be wants more diamonds, Ritani makes beautiful diamond wedding bands.

 

[Niel]

They are really well made...and I do think they would have it sit as low as you like. Here's some examples.

 

[GoSounders]

If you're willing to go with a round diamond in a cushion-shaped halo instead of a cushion or square-hearts-and-arrows diamond, I think you've found a winning combo. The .62 in the Ritani setting that Niel linked would look very nice on a size 5-ish finger. Ritani is a very good brand, and the settings I've seen locally are of very high quality. Both the diamond and the setting will give you excellent value for your money. The plain shank will make sizing much easier. If your fiancee-to-be wants more diamonds, Ritani makes beautiful diamond wedding bands.

I'm willing to go that route, but it's not optimal for me. I still find the cushion shape to look better.

Also, I just got word she likes diamonds on the band, so I'd have to go with something like this:
http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/french-set-halo-diamond--v--band-engagement-ring-with-surprise-diamonds-in-14kt-white-gold/10615
That pretty much eats into much of the savings of the stone, especially with sales tax.

I'm looking at a BGD H&A cushion that looks very cost-effective, about 20% cheaper and very comparable to the Brellia I was inquiring about.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I love that Ritani setting and think it will be much better quality than the original one posted!

 

[Niel]

I love that Ritani setting and think it will be much better quality than the original one posted!

Right. And I know it costs more but the quality is there. Plus you seem content getting a smaller stone.

 

[GoSounders]

I think we're getting sidetracked here. I'm still wanting a cushion, and I'm not looking to spend more than half my budget on the setting.

I'm basically between 3 options: (in order of increasing cost)
1. BGD 0.723ct 5.07x5.07 I SI2 for $2200 in the Shane Co setting
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.723-i-si2-cushion-diamond-ags-104065051018
2. GOG 0.7ct 5.08x5.07 I SI1 for $2700 in the Gabriel setting
3. GOG 0.7ct 5.08x5.07 I SI1 for $2700 in the Shane Co setting

The GOG stone is overseas, and I'd have to pay the $32 shipping to get it over here.

 

[kenny]

To be perfectly honest, and this may be a sacrilege on PS, in diamonds under a carat, I'd prefer a slightly larger, brighter generic cushion to a smaller stone with perfect "light performance" and optics. I think perfect cut is much more noticeable in larger diamonds; less so in diamonds under 1 carat.

Not sacrilege, just people varying.

I respectfully disagree that good light performance is less noticeable in smaller diamonds.
In fact, I'd argue that good cut may be more important in small diamonds because they are ... just smaller so they need good cut to 'speak up'.
The four large facets that make up the maltese cross in AVCs give a small diamond big impact.

If I was shopping for an under-1-carat cushion I'd pick an AVC from GOG.
I'd do the same for an over-1-ct cushion too.

IMO Good Old Gold's AVC blows every other cushion out of the water.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

To be perfectly honest, and this may be a sacrilege on PS, in diamonds under a carat, I'd prefer a slightly larger, brighter generic cushion to a smaller stone with perfect "light performance" and optics. I think perfect cut is much more noticeable in larger diamonds; less so in diamonds under 1 carat.

Not sacrilege, just people varying.

I respectfully disagree that good light performance is less noticeable in smaller diamonds.
In fact, I'd argue that good cut may be more important to small diamonds.
AVC's four large facets that make up the maltese cross give a small diamond big impact.

If I was shopping for an under-carat cushion I'd pick an AVC from GOG.
I'd do the same for an over-1-ct cushion too.

IMO the AVC blows every other cushion out of the water.

I agree with your conclusion, Kenny!!!

Of the choices just listed, I'd far rather have SI1 clarity and the Gabriel setting from GOG.

 

[Lula]

To be perfectly honest, and this may be a sacrilege on PS, in diamonds under a carat, I'd prefer a slightly larger, brighter generic cushion to a smaller stone with perfect "light performance" and optics. I think perfect cut is much more noticeable in larger diamonds; less so in diamonds under 1 carat.

Not sacrilege, just people varying.

I respectfully disagree that good light performance is less noticeable in smaller diamonds.
In fact, I'd argue that good cut may be more important to small diamonds.
AVC's four large facets that make up the maltese cross give a small diamond big impact.

If I was shopping for an under-carat cushion I'd pick an AVC from GOG.
I'd do the same for an over-1-ct cushion too.

IMO the AVC blows every other cushion out of the water.

Sorry, I'm just not a fan of the AVC. Never have been. They are too "perfect." I prefer the slightly wonky look of vintage cushions.

 

[Lula]

I think we're getting sidetracked here. I'm still wanting a cushion, and I'm not looking to spend more than half my budget on the setting.

I'm basically between 3 options: (in order of increasing cost)
1. BGD 0.723ct 5.07x5.07 I SI2 for $2200 in the Shane Co setting
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.723-i-si2-cushion-diamond-ags-104065051018
2. GOG 0.7ct 5.08x5.07 I SI1 for $2700 in the Gabriel setting
3. GOG 0.7ct 5.08x5.07 I SI1 for $2700 in the Shane Co setting

The GOG stone is overseas, and I'd have to pay the $32 shipping to get it over here.

It's good that you've narrowed it down. It's easy to get sidetracked on PS, LOL. I'd go with option 1. You like the Shane Co. setting and you've also stated that you like the fact that your fiancee-to-be can get her ring cleaned and plated locally. Also, the diamond is significantly less expensive than the GOG diamond. It's less expensive because of the clarity, though, so have you spoken to BGD about whether this diamond is eye clean? Also, make sure you check with Shane Co. that the diamond can be set low in the halo.

 

[kenny]

Sorry, I'm just not a fan of the AVC. Never have been. They are too "perfect." I prefer the slightly wonky look of vintage cushions.

Your right entirely!

I can certainly understand the charm of things that are not perfect but a several-thousand dollar diamond is not going to warrant much empathy, forgiveness or compassion from me.
You can have the wonky-cut diamonds.

Personally I'll pursue and happily pay for the most perfectly-cut diamonds on earth, since diamond is the only material that can do magic with light and the magic depends heavily on cut.

I'll forgive poor cut only in natural fancy colored diamonds since they are beyond rare.

People surely do vary.

 

[Lula]

Sorry, I'm just not a fan of the AVC. Never have been. They are too "perfect." I prefer the slightly wonky look of vintage cushions.

Your right entirely!

I can certainly understand the charm of things that are not perfect but a several-thousand dollar diamond is not going to warrant much empathy, forgiveness or compassion from me.
You can have the wonky-cut diamonds.

Personally I'll pursue and happily pay for the most perfectly-cut diamonds on earth, since diamond is the only material that can do magic with light and the magic depends heavily on cut.

I'll forgive poor cut only in natural fancy colored diamonds since they are beyond rare.

People surely do vary.

Well, not all vintage cushions are poorly cut, Kenny. I also like rounds and emerald-cuts with larger tables than preferred here. Viva la difference.

 

[kenny]

Well, not all vintage cushions are poorly cut, Kenny.

I didn't say that.

I will say that I can find a superlatively cut cushion in about 3 seconds by just going to Good Old Gold and picking any of the 75 August Vintage Cushions they now have in stock, from 0.40 ct to 5.05 ct, from D through R or Fancy, or from IF through M.
And it won't have a bogus report from EGL either.

You might spend 300 years searching for, and perhaps never find, an antique cushion cut as well, and fergitabout finding a well-cut one in your size, color or clarity.
Next the return, trade up policies at GOG will blow away that of other vendors.
Then there are all GOG's cut evaluation tools.

 

[Lula]

Well, not all vintage cushions are poorly cut, Kenny.

I didn't say that.

I will say that I can find a superlatively cut cushion in about 3 seconds by just going to Good Old Gold and picking any of the 75 August Vintage Cushions they now have in stock, from 0.40 ct to 5.05 ct, from D through R or Fancy, or from IF through M.
And it won't have a bogus report from EGL either.

You might spend 300 years searching for, and perhaps never find, an antique cushion cut as well, and fergitabout finding a well-cut one in your size, color or clarity.
Next the return, trade up policies at GOG will blow away that of other vendors.
Then there are all GOG's cut evaluation tools.

I have no argument with you about the convenience of buying from a vendor that supplies cut evaluation tools. But during my time on Ps, I've learned that those tools only tell part of the story with fancies. Light return is important in a round brilliant, because "brilliance" is what rounds are all about. I agree with you that precision cutting in an MRB enhances the brilliance and dispersion of the diamond. But not everyone wants to pay for precision cutting, and not everyone can see the difference between top-cut rounds and super-ideal rounds. I believe the faceting in a fancy cut simply plays with the light differently. And I'm not so sure that precision cutting in a fancy *necessarily* enhances the cut. To my eye, AVCs and AVRs, while superlatively cut, have a cold look to them that does not appeal to me.

JulieN linked a gorgeous cushion from JA in another thread http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.85-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-198499. Charmypoo's thread about building a Harry Winston-style ring is full of examples of beautiful non-precision-cut cushions. There are many examples of beautiful antique cushions from JBEG, Old World Diamonds, and Singlestone in the SMTB forum. They all have a warmth and a charm that AVCs and AVRs will never have -- in my (admittedly not very popular) opinion.

I've been looking for an emerald-cut for several years now. I recently bought and returned an EC from JA that had proportions well outside of the fancy-cut proportions chart that circulates on PS. It was a shallow stone with a larger table and a fairly low crown, and it was gorgeous. The facet pattern and the play of light across the stone's steps was incredible. I would have kept the stone if it had been just a bit bigger. The EC in this thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...sary-upgrade-2-52-emerald-cut-diamond.187820/ garnered a multitude of oohs and ahhs, and its proportions are well outside of the PS "preferred" proportions for an EC, and, to my eye anyway, the stone has a fair amount of leakage and probably has a serious tilt window. Doesn't matter. It's gorgeous.

All this to say that I think we need to be careful about not locking posters into one "flavor" of a cushion or other fancy cut, especially when that flavor comes at a significantly higher cost.

In this case, the OP has stated that he is interested in a square hearts and arrows, which are available from a limited number of vendors. Hes' considered his options and is deciding between two similar stones from the two PS vendors who sell them. I voted for the BGD stone because it's significantly less expensive and it's only a tiny, tiny bit smaller than the more expensive option. Plus, it doesn't need to be shipped in from overseas (which is an additional cost).

 

[marcy]

1. Does it make sense to sacrifice size for cut like I'm planning to?

IMO, I'd rather have a great cut stone over a larger stone that's not as well cut.

B. Is 0.70 ct too small to get the benefit from the Brellia H&A cut?

IMO, no. I personally think the smaller well cut stones are more dynamic stones than large stones.

3rd. is there anything I need to look out for when having a jeweler set stones from elsewhere?

I think the biggest key is what are your options if they break the diamond?

I am in a very small minority on PS that feel being able to deal with a local jeweler is preferable to dealing with online vendors. Why? I like the convenience of walking in to that store and having them fix / deal with any problems I have. I like having the lifetime warranty to fix any problems free of charge. For a RHR or earrings that doesn't break the bank I wouldn't hesitate to buy online. For my ering, I like that comfort zone. As for Shane Company, 90% of the jewelry I own including my ering is from them. I wanted an AGS0 RB for my ering which are few and far between in their inventory but they found one I liked. They have always given me very good service. Also you can upgrade your diamond anytime on another diamond that costs only a $1.00 more.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[GoSounders]

All of your inputs are appreciated.

I've gone ahead and paid to ship the Brellia I'm considering (from Japan, it seems). I feel $32 is worth having the stone looked at. I'm also having them ship in a PoH for comparison's sake.

The BGD stone has a blank inclusion plot, though it does mention a feather, crystal, and indented natural. They're contacting AGS to see what's up with the cert and whether they have an updated copy with a populated inclusion plot. BGD lists the stone as eye clean. Should I be concerned with the inclusions from a stone integrity standpoint if it's SI2?

 

[GoSounders]

Update: Got the updated BGD diamond plot, and it looks fine. It's got a couple small indented naturals on the pavilion and a feather that is fairly long on the side, but stops short of the edge of the diamond. Jamie at BGD confirmed it was eye clean and none of the inclusions should affect durability.

I've reserved the BGD stone, and intend to pay for it tomorrow. Looks like a great stone at a great price!

 

[momma2boys]

Hi, GoSounders! Just wondering if you made any final decisions on your setting and diamond?

 

[GoSounders]

Hey, megan! I was surprised to see my thread resurrected.

I bought the 0.723ct BGD Cushion, which is now hiding out in the garage, the one place in the house that the FF never goes. I've got the Shane Co setting on layaway, ready to be set whenever I pull the trigger. I just set up Jewelers Mutual insurance so the stone is insured during the setting process, as Shane makes you sign a waiver releasing them of all liability for setting outside stones.

I'm still open to a different setting, but I haven't seen anything else out there. The Ritani is just too expensive, and the Gabriel rings' split shank don't split enough for my liking. I found a Coast setting that might work, but still not that great. The other route would be to go custom, and I found a local place that is very competitively priced. I just don't know about custom-designing a surprise ring, just in case she hates it.

I'll probably pay to set it tomorrow, then pick it up next week!

 

[momma2boys]

That's really exciting, congrats!! Definitely keep us posted!

 

[GoSounders]

Will definitely make a new post once it's set!