Advice on family-work balance?

[Dreamer_D]

Well, after poking around on this forum for a month, I have noticed that there seems to be a lot of other women on PS who have graduate degrees, or other advanced degrees, or who have careers that are really important to them, or who are generally wiser and more experienced than me, so I am hoping you can help me out!

I recently finished graduate school and am currently doing a post-doctoral research position which lasts another 18 months. My goal is to find a job as a university professor, and I have spent the last 11 years of my life working towards this goal. The point it, I really love my job and I know I will find it rewarding and meaningfull work for the rest of my career. Here''s the rub. When I started graduate school I really didn''t think much about what would happen when it came time to find a job. Fast-forward six years and I am married to a wonderful and supportive man who really values my career and my happiness in my career (not all of my girlfriends can say that, I feel very lucky). But now that I am actually on the job market I am realizing how much more difficult it is to find a job than I had originally thought. This year in Canada there were no jobs in my field. None. And my field is very popular in universities... apparently this is a cyclical thing, and some years are bad years. But this means that next year is my last year on the job market before my post-doc funding runs out and so I may need to be less picky about where I apply, and I may need to leave my country for the US. Don''t get me wrong, I have nothing against moving to the US, but here is where the whole family-work balance issue comes up.

Althought I love my job, I am 30 this year, and we want kids soon, and I guess I am really agonizing over whether I want to ask my DH to move to another country for my job! He is willing and supportive, but I am so scared about uprooting us and moving somewhere new for the sake of my career. I worry about having kids without my family around for support, I worry about trying to get through those first years pre-tenure and having kids at the same time with no real maternity leave (in Canada you get 12 months paid maternity leave by law and fathers also get 12 months paid paternity leave which can be taked concurrently or sequentially), I worry about my DH being able to get a job... I also worry that my career may be fundamentally incompatible with having a large family. The consensus seems to be that in my field, women shouldn''t have kids until tenure (i.e., around 35), and that just isn''t okay with me.

In the grand scheme, I know that I am fortunate that this is the biggest dilemma I have to face in my life right now, and I try to remind myself of that every day. But I guess I am just wondering if any of you faced similar choices in your careers or in your families, and what decisions you made, or what decisions you wish you had made. Any comments, stories, or other perspectives on this issue are much appreciated.

Thanks for letting me share!

DD

 

[diamondfan]

You bring up a lot of stuff, and I am tired so I will just make a couple comments now!

It is great that you have worked hard and love what you do and are excited to be in your field. However, there are biological windows that can close or be very tough to reopen down the road. You do not know. I assume, if you or hubby have any fertility complications, of course you may have none, but often one never knows til they are into the process. It can be gamble to put off having a family, depending on your ability to have kids. Having a great career and having kids can go together and can be rewarding, but of course one must juggle things more in that case. I just think down the line, if one DOES want kids, they do not look back happily years later, when they focused on their career and could not get pregnant when they were ready to. Not to be simplistic, because there are options and if you and hubby are healthy, you may have no issues at all, though odds decrease with each year. (one of my best friend''s hubby is a noted fertility doctor here!). Just pointing out that if you do want both, something has to be worked out before too much time passes.

 

[gailrmv]

My desire for work-life balance has actually held me back considerably in my career compared to where I would be if I was willing to work 24/7, as many jobs in my field require. So I understand where you are coming from.

The maternity and paternity leave that you have in Canada are so much better than most employers offer in the US. Also, from what I understand, your health insurance in Canada is independent of your employment - so if you or DH took additional time off work, you would still have your health insurance. That is huge, and much different from the US system. So I guess without knowing all the ins and outs of the situation, I would advise you to stay in Canada if possible so that you have the best hope of balancing work and family in the future. I agree with Diamond Fan that you never know whether fertility will be easy or hard for you. I too prefer to have kids by 35 ish if I am able - although many people do it healthily and happily at later ages of course. When will you find out whether there will be any openings in your field in Canada next year?

 

[diamondfan]

Tandog, when I was trying to have my third, in my mid 30''s, I did go see my friend''s hubby. I had had two pregnancies in my 20''s (and two very early miscarriages) but overall got pregnant the first month I tried all 4 times. We decided to have a third and I had some issues. Overall not terrible, but it took a few months for me and I needed an hsg and to take natural progesterone as I had a late luteal phase insufficiency. I never thought it would be tough for me to have another baby, but my doctor explained the diminishing conception rates as a woman ages and boy, it seems like a miracle that anyone EVER manages to have a baby. There are many things that must be working in a certain way...even one element being off can impact the odds. And it is tough to know if that will be your scenario, but the older you are, the numbers are what they are. I would doubt that anyone who wants kids (and a career or not) really regrets doing what they need to do to have their family. But it sounds as if Canada is much more family focused than the US, which is awesome.

 

[Independent Gal]

Hey Dreamer, I know about 1000 people in your exact situation. Gotta run now, but I''ll write you a good long post when I have a minute this afternoon.

 

[Sha]

That's a difficult position to be in. IT's tough that the career you've been working towards for so long may not be compatible with your desire to start a family now.

Personally - I woudn't give up my dreams of family for my career. The expectation might be that you start having children after tenure/age 35, but who's to say you'll be able to at that age? You might have lost a window of opportunity you might never be able to get back. How would you feel if that happened? I guess you have to search yourself to find out what is more important to you.... having children now and possibly delaying your career goals, or working towards tenure and possibly having difficulty starting a family later? Which one would make you feel more comfortable?

The work/life balance can be so difficult for women. The last job I had was extremely stressful. I was working 10-12 hours almost every day (which was standard for managers there - it was just EXPECTED that you would be there late). I had NO life whatsoever. Everynight I would come home, plop on the couch, fall asleep, wake up the next day and do it all over again. I told myself that I had to get out before I even thought about starting a family. So I switched jobs and careers (for other reasons as well) -but one of the main reasons is that the work/life balance is much better in my current field.

It's a tough decision either way, and SOMETHING will have to give...it's just a matter of what you feel more comfortable (possibly) giving up.

 

[LitigatorChick]

I am a lawyer in Canada, working at a big law firm. And I make it work - I have a 20 month old at home. That is the short story. Here is the longer one.

Stay in Canada. First, health care. You can''t beat it. It is freakin'' free!!! We paid for a doula, but other than that, free!!! You say we get 12 months of paid leave - not exactly true, unless you call the 800 bucks every 2 weeks (which is the maximum the government will give you) "pay". My law firm topped me up to full salary for 4 months, and then I got the government "pay" for the next 5 months. At that point, my husband took over, and I went back to work. His employer offered 2 months of paid parental leave, so he got topped up to full salary for those 2 months. And then....

After 11 months of combined leave, we were both back at work. We found a live-in nanny to care for our son, which IMO is a must have for a professional working mom.

My employer has been very good about accomodating me. In short, I have worked my butt off litigating for the past 6 years, and I have earned a bit of time with lower hours (so this year I billed 1800 hours - actually, above most of my peers). How do I do it? I work like crazy when I am in the office - few coffee breaks (or my assistant gets my coffee), few lunch breaks, few PS breaks - otherwise, BILL!! Using that schedule, I work 6 to 4:30. I then go home and play with my little man until bedtime - 8:00. After he is in bed, I may work some more, maybe 2 more hours. Then off to bed and do it again. On this schedule, I rarely work weekends.

I stay super organized and rely upon a team of people to help me - nanny (who does all my house cleaning, laundry, etc.), assistants, paralegals, junior lawyers, etc. I stay very focussed - litigator mode and mommy mode.

It works for me. I need to work - I have spent significant time on my education and I am freakin'' awesome at what I do! It makes me a better mommy to be more balanced and get all my frustrations out by litigating!

So, there you are. Hope that helps!

 

[scarlet16]

Date: 2/4/2008 9:41:19 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
I am a lawyer in Canada, working at a big law firm. And I make it work - I have a 20 month old at home. That is the short story. Here is the longer one.


Stay in Canada. First, health care. You can''t beat it. It is freakin'' free!!! We paid for a doula, but other than that, free!!! You say we get 12 months of paid leave - not exactly true, unless you call the 800 bucks every 2 weeks (which is the maximum the government will give you) ''pay''. My law firm topped me up to full salary for 4 months, and then I got the government ''pay'' for the next 5 months. At that point, my husband took over, and I went back to work. His employer offered 2 months of paid parental leave, so he got topped up to full salary for those 2 months. And then....


After 11 months of combined leave, we were both back at work. We found a live-in nanny to care for our son, which IMO is a must have for a professional working mom.


My employer has been very good about accomodating me. In short, I have worked my butt off litigating for the past 6 years, and I have earned a bit of time with lower hours (so this year I billed 1800 hours - actually, above most of my peers). How do I do it? I work like crazy when I am in the office - few coffee breaks (or my assistant gets my coffee), few lunch breaks, few PS breaks - otherwise, BILL!! Using that schedule, I work 6 to 4:30. I then go home and play with my little man until bedtime - 8:00. After he is in bed, I may work some more, maybe 2 more hours. Then off to bed and do it again. On this schedule, I rarely work weekends.


I stay super organized and rely upon a team of people to help me - nanny (who does all my house cleaning, laundry, etc.), assistants, paralegals, junior lawyers, etc. I stay very focussed - litigator mode and mommy mode.


It works for me. I need to work - I have spent significant time on my education and I am freakin'' awesome at what I do! It makes me a better mommy to be more balanced and get all my frustrations out by litigating!


So, there you are. Hope that helps!

Sorry to threadjack but LitigatorChick, you are an inspiration! I''m in my last semester of law school, getting married in August and have thought non-stop about how I''m going to balance my career as a litigator with my desire to be a mom by my early 30''s (latest). Luckily the big firms (in NYC) have started realizing how important it is for them to consider the work life balance so they don''t lose their key attorneys. I''m hoping that working my butt off for about 3 years will show my dedication, and then the 3 month leave won''t be so bad...it''s just the thought of afterwards that scares me...2000+ hours a year billed and an infant is quite a scary though, not to mention how I fit in another child a few years later!

But thanks for you inspirational story!

 

[LitigatorChick]

Scarlet16 - glad I could help. You sound like a NYC version of me - I graduated law school and got married in August, and then started my career. Good luck!

Just one thing. Seriously consider a long leave than 3 months. I know that is fairly typical in the US, but definately not in Canada. I came back after 9 months and some people were shocked that I didn''t wait until 12 months (even as a litigator!). I know that the firm would really like me to have popped the kid out and started working again, but that is just not going to happen (yes, females litigate now, females have babies, get used to it!). Anyway, I think you are missing out on some attachment time by getting back to work so quickly. They are only babies for a very very short time - you have your whole life to work. A couple extra months wouldn''t hurt.

 

[scarlet16]

While I would LOVE a leave that long, I''m not sure a firm would hold open a position for 12, or even 9 months! Maybe I should move to Canada!

 

[LitigatorChick]

"Hold open a position"? Are there any laws concerning maternity and parental leave in the US??? In Canada, they must give you your same position after 12 months!

 

[Efe]

Date: 2/4/2008 9:41:19 AM
Author: LitigatorChick


My employer has been very good about accomodating me. In short, I have worked my butt off litigating for the past 6 years, and I have earned a bit of time with lower hours (so this year I billed 1800 hours - actually, above most of my peers). How do I do it? I work like crazy when I am in the office - few coffee breaks (or my assistant gets my coffee), few lunch breaks, few PS breaks - otherwise, BILL!! Using that schedule, I work 6 to 4:30. I then go home and play with my little man until bedtime - 8:00. After he is in bed, I may work some more, maybe 2 more hours. Then off to bed and do it again. On this schedule, I rarely work weekends.

Canada can''t be too progressive if assistants are still doing coffee runs

 

[LitigatorChick]

Date: 2/4/2008 10:35:36 AM
Author: BizouMom

Date: 2/4/2008 9:41:19 AM
Author: LitigatorChick


My employer has been very good about accomodating me. In short, I have worked my butt off litigating for the past 6 years, and I have earned a bit of time with lower hours (so this year I billed 1800 hours - actually, above most of my peers). How do I do it? I work like crazy when I am in the office - few coffee breaks (or my assistant gets my coffee), few lunch breaks, few PS breaks - otherwise, BILL!! Using that schedule, I work 6 to 4:30. I then go home and play with my little man until bedtime - 8:00. After he is in bed, I may work some more, maybe 2 more hours. Then off to bed and do it again. On this schedule, I rarely work weekends.

Canada can't be too progressive if assistants are still doing coffee runs

I rarely tell them to get my coffee - if they are going, they ask me if I want anything and they get it for me. It works the other way too - if I leave the office to get coffee, I always offer them coffee. It is only on the odd occassion that I have them get coffee/food for me, like when I am under an urgent time crunch. In that case, I don't feel bad about asking - my time (the commodity that the firm sells) is needed for the customer, and my assistants are to assist me in billing that time. It makes more sense for them to get coffee than take up 1/2 hour of my time. The reality is that my time can be billed at hundreds of dollars an hour - theirs can't.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 2/4/2008 10:28:05 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
''Hold open a position''? Are there any laws concerning maternity and parental leave in the US??? In Canada, they must give you your same position after 12 months!

LitigatorChick, the Family Medical Leave Act here gives (I think) six weeks of guaranteed time in which to have the baby and get back to work. During that time, the employer has to give you back either the same position or a substantially similar one. After that time, it''s completely up to the company.

There might be a little more time you can tack on somehow...I''m not that familiar with this particular law...but it''s not very generous at all. That''s why it''s so important for us to find companies that offer better benefits privately, rather than ones that only offer the government-mandated benefits.

 

[LitigatorChick]

Date: 2/4/2008 11:13:14 AM
Author: Octavia

Date: 2/4/2008 10:28:05 AM
Author: LitigatorChick
''Hold open a position''? Are there any laws concerning maternity and parental leave in the US??? In Canada, they must give you your same position after 12 months!

LitigatorChick, the Family Medical Leave Act here gives (I think) six weeks of guaranteed time in which to have the baby and get back to work. During that time, the employer has to give you back either the same position or a substantially similar one. After that time, it''s completely up to the company.

There might be a little more time you can tack on somehow...I''m not that familiar with this particular law...but it''s not very generous at all. That''s why it''s so important for us to find companies that offer better benefits privately, rather than ones that only offer the government-mandated benefits.

Holy cow!!! You gals in the US need to start some serious government lobbying to make a decent level of maternity leave mandatory!!! 6 weeks is simply not enough time!!!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Sorry, to be so blunt, but I think you''d be insane to move to the US from Canada!!!

Your health care and maternity leave up in Canada is AMAZING and AWESOME. The US sucks. My two c-sections came to $30K and my insurance only covered a portion of them! I am a SAHM, luckily, but if I was working at that time, I would have been limited to the amount of time I could be with my boys and probably couldn''t have breastfeed either of them for the one year I did for each son. Unluckily, I was paying off medical bills for many many many months (or was it years?).

My grandparents live in BC and they will not even drive down for a visit because my grandfather has health issues and he FEARS what would happen if he had to go to the emergency room while in Washington!

 

[scarlet16]

Date: 2/4/2008 11:53:21 AM
Author: LitigatorChick

Date: 2/4/2008 11:13:14 AM

Author: Octavia

Date: 2/4/2008 10:28:05 AM

Author: LitigatorChick

''Hold open a position''? Are there any laws concerning maternity and parental leave in the US??? In Canada, they must give you your same position after 12 months!

LitigatorChick, the Family Medical Leave Act here gives (I think) six weeks of guaranteed time in which to have the baby and get back to work. During that time, the employer has to give you back either the same position or a substantially similar one. After that time, it''s completely up to the company.


There might be a little more time you can tack on somehow...I''m not that familiar with this particular law...but it''s not very generous at all. That''s why it''s so important for us to find companies that offer better benefits privately, rather than ones that only offer the government-mandated benefits.

Holy cow!!! You gals in the US need to start some serious government lobbying to make a decent level of maternity leave mandatory!!! 6 weeks is simply not enough time!!!

Actually FMLA allows for 12 weeks (ie. 3 months), but either way, it is CERTAINLY not enough time w/ a newborn. And, it''s not a paid 12 weeks...that''s up to the employer (most firms do give you paid leave, others make you use "disability" coverage). You can extend however, using vacation/personal time (again depending on the employer). Some of the big firms are being what they believe to be generous and providing 18 weeks paid (to the primary caregiver). I believe a friend (male) received 8 weeks, which he used periodically during the baby''s first year. WE ARE SO JEALOUS of the canadian maternity/paternity leave laws!!

 

[LitigatorChick]

Wow: I knew Canadian laws were more favourable for leave, but I didn''t know how much. Also, I had no idea that a person could be faced with personally paying costs for a C-Section - yikes! Dreamer_Dachsie - STAY IN CANADA!!

 

[Independent Gal]

OK, I came out of a top 5 Ph.D. program, and many of my grad school friends decdied to go into academia. Since these issues are all I hear about from them, I have a few insights.

About 3/4 of those have had good success, but just to give you an idea of what the numbers are like for people in general in the US, a friend of mine discovered that for the 5 good and 15 crappy jobs available in his field this year, he had to compete against 250 other candidates. Get it? That's less than 10% getting a job, and most of those pretty wretched jobs (in terms of geography, teaching load, very low salary...like 30-40K). People are fighting to get paid 30K a year, teach a 4-4 load, and live in Nowheresville after 10yrs of higher ed. In my opinion, that's NUTS.

The parental leave issue is a huge one my friends talk about. In academia in the US, you might get a term off if your baby is born at just the right time. Otherwise, you might get no official time off AT ALL (e.g., if your baby is born in the summer). I know someone who was basically back in the classroom, two weeks after giving birth. Also, a friend of mine just hired by a top school was told she couldn't get leave at all for something like two years. So that makes you... 33? If you got the job next year?

In the US, you will not have tenure by the time you are 35 as someone above suggested. It takes about 7 years to get tenure at a good school, and it is A LOT harder to get tenure in the US than it is in Canada, where all but the best schools basically require you to keep breathing and not molest the students, and, you know, write an article here and there. Good US schools will expect you to write at least 1 and possibly 2 books in that seven years (when your kids are infants) and publish them with good presses, as well as a handful of articles. You will also potentially have a heavy teaching load, because the professors in the US are not unionized.

Yes, your time is more flexible, but if you want tenure at a good place, you still have to put in your 10-12 hours a day. You just might get to decide which 10-12 hours those are.

As a result of all this, women with children under 10 are literally HALF as likely to get tenure as those without.

Academic salaries, on average, are actually lower in the US as well (though they're higher at top 10 schools).

In terms of there being no jobs in Canada, I have to say, I think that university faculties should be ASHAMED of themselves for deceiving graduate students about their job prospects. And graduate students should really learn to ask questions about their job prospects and not fly by the seat of their pants. A lot of professors want a ph.d. program at their school because it is prestigious, and then they have research and teaching assistance and can 'reproduce' themselves intellectually. But the fact is, WAY more Ph.D.'s are being produced than jobs available, and when you think about the years and years of work that go into writing a Ph.D. and the lost wages, it is a travesty that someone doesn't just say upfront "Your chances of getting a permanent job in this field are about 10%. Do you still want to do the degree?" Some people will say 'yes'. But everyone should know the facts first.

If you go to the US, you should be prepared for the fact that the applicant pool expands enormously, since people from every corner of the world apply for US jobs, and that with the exception of probably top 3 programs, or unless your advisor is famous, you're going to have a lot of trouble being 'credible' next to top 5 or top 10 US schools, +Oxbridge, +NU Singapore, +Tokyo, +Beijing, etc. Not to be discouraging, but the reality is that you should consider alternatives, even if you do apply to the US.

Canadian Ph.D.'s just aren't as covetted on the world scene.

Have your babies. Keep trying to get an academic job. But if family is important to you, don't sacrifice that to scramble for jobs in the US. Being a mom and a professor is much, much easier in Canada, from what I hear.

Sorry if that was depressing, but the US really has very little respect for working motherhood and does not make it easy. And academia is, well, nuts already. So, what a gorgeous combination.

 

[Dreamer_D]

All of this information has been really interesting to read, thanks so much for responding! I think the main thing I am taking away from this is that the health-care and maternity issues are very different in the US and Canada. Of course, I have looked into these issues before and was aware of them, but it is interesting to hear the perspectives of women actually working and living in Canada and the US. I agree with Litigator chick that it is time for some action in the US to change the system to support women more. Until women are supported in the workforce before, during, and after having children, then inequality and sexism still exists, in my opinion.

diamondfan, tandogmom, and sha, I agree with your points about the importance of family, and I definitely see the issues that women face when having children is put on the backburner for career. These issues weigh on my mind, I appreciate your perspectives greatly.

Litigatorchick, I feel fortunate that I am not a lawyer! I don''t think I could manage those working hours, you get a pat on the back from me for sure!

But I am also impressed how you are organizing your work and famaily life so that you can manage all your responsibilities and feel fulfilled as both a mother and lawyer. That is something that I strive for.

Independent gal: Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences, your assessment of the academic world is spot on, though there may be some differences depending on the particular field that one is in. When I posted originally, I left out lots of details of my situation. Like you, I come from a top school. My programme is the best in Canada in my field and one of the top in North America in terms of the career success of people who have graduated from my programme. The professors with whom I work are all very famous (in our field, which means no one else has heard of them! haha

), as is the professor with whom I am doing my post-doc. So we are well-connected. Although I definitely agree that Canadian graduates are not as sought in the US as US graduates from top schools, in my field, there are three schools in Canada that are well-respected in the US, and mine is one of them. I have also been fortunate/worked hard enough to have a publication record that is world class for someone at my stage in their career. But I have not applied for jobs broadly in the last two years because I have been fortunate to have very generous funding from the government, and so have not yet been "desperate" for a job. I have just been enjoying doing research without the pressures of teaching. But next year is my last year of funding, and in Canada, jobs are few and far between. When they do come up, "fit" is often an issue as schools want people studying a particular sub-topic etc. etc. etc. My former supervisors feel confident that I will be highly competitive for jobs when they appear... but this waiting thing means more time "putting off" buying a house, settling into a new city, and starting a family. Overall, independentgal, you summed up in your post all of the frustrations that my female collagues and I feel! I think these are universal concerns for female academics, or academics in general. We must be gluttons for punishment to choose this career!

Ok, gotta go work on a manuscript, publish or perish, right?

And I welcome more opinions and experiences, the replies I have received so far have been very enlightening!

DD

 

[LitigatorChick]

Dreamer_Dachsie, you and all smart professional women need to figure out where you want to be and how you can get there. You say that women in your area don''t have kids pre-tenure. Well, you do. The establishment may not like it, but that''s life. In my world, I think the men would have preferred if all the women stayed home. But we don''t. And we kick their butt in Court and go home and take the lion''s share of childcare responsibilities.

I wanted a family and a career. I have them. I have decided, for my work and other reasons, to only have 1 child. That is my compromise. Your''s might be to stay in Canada for a while longer to get your family established, and then move on to another position elsewhere.

The point is, don''t give up. You can make this work. So focus on what you have control of, and make it happen!!

 

[Independent Gal]

Dreamer, that''s good, and GREAT that you have a good publication record. Why not try and see what happens? You can always say no if you don''t like the terms of a job.

You may also be able to negotiate the parental leave aspect, although I haven''t heard of that happening.

I think it''s telling that so many of my classmates decided to do something other than pursue an academic career, even those who were offered academic jobs.

I would just have a backup plan in mind and be prepared for a mobile and uncertain life until you''re 40 or so.

But if you CAN stay in Canada I would definitely do that.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/4/2008 3:11:36 PM
Author: LitigatorChick
Dreamer_Dachsie, you and all smart professional women need to figure out where you want to be and how you can get there. You say that women in your area don''t have kids pre-tenure. Well, you do. The establishment may not like it, but that''s life. In my world, I think the men would have preferred if all the women stayed home. But we don''t. And we kick their butt in Court and go home and take the lion''s share of childcare responsibilities.

I wanted a family and a career. I have them. I have decided, for my work and other reasons, to only have 1 child. That is my compromise. Your''s might be to stay in Canada for a while longer to get your family established, and then move on to another position elsewhere.

The point is, don''t give up. You can make this work. So focus on what you have control of, and make it happen!!

Spoken like a woman after my own heart!

Two of my best friends had children in graduate school, and the establishment reacted like they had grown a second head!

Although stressful for them, I respect them so much for demanding that the programme take them seriously. And they are both really accomplished now, and set a precedent in our programme. I''m sure more women will choose to have kids in grad school now that they broke that barrier. I''m sure your example will also affect the options open for women in your workplace too.

independentgal: I hear you! That''s why I am planning the next year of my research so that it is applicable in a business and health setting, so that my job prospects will open up in both the academic and private sectors. Next year I will probably apply to both academic and non-academic jobs so that I have some options. And I think I am going to try to stay in Canada. It might mean money will be tight from my career, but my DH''s career is taking off, so he can support us for a while! haha, spoken like a true liberated woman.

 

[Independent Gal]

Sounds like some smart planning, Dreamer! And you never know where it could lead... The nice thing about having a ph.d. is it opens all kinds of doors you''d never expect.

I love some security, but life is better when you aren''t EXACTLY sure where it''s headed. know what I mean?

Mmmmm. Adventure.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 2/4/2008 12:42:24 PM
Author: scarlet16

Date: 2/4/2008 11:53:21 AM

Actually FMLA allows for 12 weeks (ie. 3 months), but either way, it is CERTAINLY not enough time w/ a newborn. And, it''s not a paid 12 weeks...that''s up to the employer (most firms do give you paid leave, others make you use ''disability'' coverage). You can extend however, using vacation/personal time (again depending on the employer). Some of the big firms are being what they believe to be generous and providing 18 weeks paid (to the primary caregiver). I believe a friend (male) received 8 weeks, which he used periodically during the baby''s first year. WE ARE SO JEALOUS of the canadian maternity/paternity leave laws!!

Thanks for clarifying...I have never had to make use of FMLA, but I remembered one of my former co-workers coming back after 6 weeks. I assumed that was all the leave she got, but thinking back, it''s more probable that she and her husband couldn''t afford for her to be unpaid once the disability pay ran out. It''s really sad that we treat mothers like that, and makes me a little nervous for when I have kids.

Dreamer_dachsie, thanks for starting this thread. It''s something I think about a lot, since I go back and forth between wanting to work at a big law firm once I finish law school, or doing some sort of alternative job that won''t require as much of my time. It''s interesting to hear people''s perspectives.

 

[Clio]

Dreamer Dachsie, I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I actually had my first two children in graduate school (one right after I defended my MA thesis and one as I was finishing up my dissertation research).

I had my third child during my first year on the tenure track. It wasn''t ideal, but we made it work. My department was a very family friendly department, and I think that''s key (although it can be tough to evaluate this before you''re in the job). I didn''t stop my tenure clock, though that''s one option that is increasingly offered (my experience is in the US however).

I ended up leaving academe. Although it wasn''t for work/family balance issues, I have found that it''s easier to maintain that balance outside the academic setting (plus, I''m paid a LOT more).

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/4/2008 11:29:52 PM
Author: Octavia

Date: 2/4/2008 12:42:24 PM
Author: scarlet16

Date: 2/4/2008 11:53:21 AM

Actually FMLA allows for 12 weeks (ie. 3 months), but either way, it is CERTAINLY not enough time w/ a newborn. And, it's not a paid 12 weeks...that's up to the employer (most firms do give you paid leave, others make you use 'disability' coverage). You can extend however, using vacation/personal time (again depending on the employer). Some of the big firms are being what they believe to be generous and providing 18 weeks paid (to the primary caregiver). I believe a friend (male) received 8 weeks, which he used periodically during the baby's first year. WE ARE SO JEALOUS of the canadian maternity/paternity leave laws!!

Thanks for clarifying...I have never had to make use of FMLA, but I remembered one of my former co-workers coming back after 6 weeks. I assumed that was all the leave she got, but thinking back, it's more probable that she and her husband couldn't afford for her to be unpaid once the disability pay ran out. It's really sad that we treat mothers like that, and makes me a little nervous for when I have kids.

Dreamer_dachsie, thanks for starting this thread. It's something I think about a lot, since I go back and forth between wanting to work at a big law firm once I finish law school, or doing some sort of alternative job that won't require as much of my time. It's interesting to hear people's perspectives.

Octavia you are not alone in thinking about these issues! My female friends and I think about this all the time, and I have noticed that my female students also think about this a lot when thinking about the careers they want and really avoid carrers that they think are "incompatible" with their family goals. It makes me so sad and frustrated that we have to think about this and our workplaces are not more accommodating to the unique family issues faced by women. I think that on an explicit level, many important steps were made by women in the 60s to decrease sexism in the workplace. But I think that there is still a lot of implicit, or indirect, sexism in the workplace (6 weeks leave to have a baby!!???!! That is insane

What message does that send to women??? "After you have kids, you are not welcome in the workplace"). This is what women of our generation need to fight head on. I think the only way to do that is to follow Litigator chick's advice: You simply refuse to conform to the expectations and standards that are unreasonable and demand better treatment. Women have unique skills, perspectives, talents, and abilities to contribute to many diverse jobs, including being a stay-at-home-mom (the most underappreciated job of them all!!), but we also have unique needs that should be met to allow us to participate equally in the workforce.

That's my rant for the day! haha

DD

 

[Independent Gal]

Yeah, it's funny. I was raised in an environment where the general message was "Girls are free now to become whatever they want and do whatever they want!" And I actually believed that, until I grew up and realized the realities of the workplace in high powered careers. Sure, there are a few women who can have it all, but most end up having to make a choice at some point: either I join the big law firm / take the tenure-track job at an Ivy school / become a neurosurgeon and "be all I can be" OR I have a family. It's extremely hard to do both well, and a lot of women just end up not having families because of it, or taking on a less intense career track. The number of senior women faculty at top schools who are single or childless or both is STRIKING.

I sometimes feel really angry that the world is like this (which bewilders FI) I wish I could have a family AND pursue my career as aggresively as I'm able. But the fact is, because I'm female and there are certain biological realities attached to that and certain expectations in the workforce, I can't. That's just the way the world is. I wish I had really known this so that I hadn't got my hopes up.

Dreamer I wish we could talk offline, since there are so many things I'd love to tell you that I can't really post.

But in the meantime, I saw this letter to the editor in the New York Times recently which summed it all up so well:

LETTER; Mentors and Sisterhood
Published: January 24, 2008
To the Editor:

"Re ''The New 'Old Boys'?'' (Generations column, regional sections, Jan. 20):

Unfortunately, Kate Stone Lombardi's evidence to suggest the evolution of a network where professional women help other women is more anecdotal than it is the norm.

I've worked in finance for 15 years and have never been able to identify a single reliable mentor or networking partner, and not for lack of trying.

To make matters worse, the majority of my thirtysomething friends and colleagues have opted to leave the work force to stay home with their children.

It seems that the generation of women who preceded my generation are either of the mind-set that nobody helped them break through the glass ceiling and so they can ignore any type of sisterhood, or they are just too exhausted trying to ''have it all'' that they simply have no time for mentoring.

In college I thought I could have any type of career I wanted. While I still believe that is true, I wish someone had explained to me the choices I'd be forced to make regarding work and family life, and how lonely it would feel at times.

Perhaps my mother was right, and I should have been a nurse or a teacher.

Laura Frey

Chatham, N.J., Jan. 21, 2008"

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/5/2008 9:47:35 AM
Author: Clio
Dreamer Dachsie, I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I actually had my first two children in graduate school (one right after I defended my MA thesis and one as I was finishing up my dissertation research).

I had my third child during my first year on the tenure track. It wasn''t ideal, but we made it work. My department was a very family friendly department, and I think that''s key (although it can be tough to evaluate this before you''re in the job). I didn''t stop my tenure clock, though that''s one option that is increasingly offered (my experience is in the US however).

I ended up leaving academe. Although it wasn''t for work/family balance issues, I have found that it''s easier to maintain that balance outside the academic setting (plus, I''m paid a LOT more).

This is a good point, and also illustrates how it is not essential or financially neccesary that academic departments handle maternity leave the way that they do. At my university, when a female professor is on leave, she is "topped up" by the university to recieve 80% of her salary for her 12 months on leave (the government only covers about 35% of her salary). For many professors at my university, this means that the university is "saving" at least $45 000 while she is on leave for 12 months. Sessional instructors are paid $6700 to teach a course, multiplied by a 3 course load = net "savings" to the department of almost $25 000 when a woman is on leave! Even if the government didn''t cover any of the cost of paying a woman during her leave, the cost of sessionals is undoubtedly covered by the decreases in the woman''s pay. This suggests that there is no reasonable or logical reason why universities in the US should not allow longer paid maternity leave to their female professors. Some might argue that sessionals aren''t as qualified as regualr profs, but in many cases they are actually better teachers

!

I know that in many other workplaces, the math doesn''t work this way and it is more complicated when a woman takes leave, but I am pretty sure that the workplace could figure it out. In some countries, women will "job share" during the years when their children are little (take me there please!), and thus the company has continuity of employees and the women have flexibility of work hours. Sounds god to me! At my husbands office, women take leave all the time and they shuffle people around. It is part of the accepted practice in many female-dominated fields (he works in insurance), and if more women enter "higher powered" fields, or male dominated fields, then things will eventually shift. But only is we take the risk of entering such fields, and then require things to change!

OK rant # 2 for the day!

DD

 

[Independent Gal]

Dreamer, one of the ways that universities are ranked in the US, which is critical for getting the best students, and for alumni funding, which as i''m sure you know, is the fuel US schools run on, is the number of courses that are taught by full time faculty vs. grad students, postdocs, etc. There is often waaaay more money floating around a school down here than at state schools in Canada, the UK, and elsewhere, so they are far less concerned about ''saving money'' and far more concerned about prestige and status. So having the faculty on leave is a different kind of problem down here.