Advice on family-work balance?

[Independent Gal]

Yes, that''s a very good point DD. Anthropologists and others who have to do extensive fieldwork, e.g., take longer on average. Mathematicians and economists who just have to have an idea or 3 and write them up in a series of papers sometimes take way shorter. A friend of mine (mathematician) was done in 3.5 years and managed to spend most of that time in Paris drinking with his friends. Oh, so jealous.

Actually, my aramaic is not half bad. I learned it that time I got stranded in Aramaialand. Not much chance to use it these days out here in middle america, though. Shame.

(Seriously though, that''s the language that a lot of older Jewish prayer is written in, right?)

 

[erica k]

Date: 2/19/2008 10:21:28 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Hmmm... well, as someone who finished her Ph.D. in 4.5 years (out of breath, but happy!) I have to say there''s a lot to be said for speeding through. My school also frowned on people taking more than 6, or at worst 7 years, with 6 being the norm. I thought that was wise. Sure, some people need the extra few years to work through their genius insight, but many who take a looooong time are just, well, lazy? Or scared? I saw a lot of people who kind of idled in grad school and didn''t do much work. Or they took on a tonne of side projects and lost focus. I always wondered if it was out of fear about what would come next. I think that''s a shame. I guess I''m a sort of pseudo-calvanist about productivity.

That said, if someone has a good reason to idle, like my friend R whose husband was finishing up a residency (she then got a tt job at an Ivy, and they found him a job too) or my friend C (who had two small daughters and a wife doing an MA... he got a great tt job too) then grad school is the place to do it!


I think senior faculty understand that. At least at my school and in my department they certainly did.

I am in the Art and Architectural History department, and many of my friends work on projects that require a lot of languages. For instance, a friend of mine had to learn classical, Byzantine, and modern Greek in order to translate his texts (not a mean feat considering his native language is Serbian and he is fluent in English, German and French). Other friends in Islamic studies worked their way from Arabic to Persian. Furthermore, I have friends who have been trying to gain access to archives and museums with little to no luck. The bureaucracy and politics behind archives in places as disparate as the Netherlands and Egypt are mindboggling. A friend of mine tried to view paintings in Havana and was systematically shut out. She had to change topics because of this, which has set her back at least 1 year. All of us, no matter our specialty, must have reading knowledge of at least German and one romance language. I learned German, Italian, and French in college, but I chose an American topic, so I guess I have no excuse for taking so long. In our program, we take classes for two years and then teach for at least one year. Research usually takes one-two years, and writing should take one-two years, also. I am planning on having a finished draft by the beginning of my seventh year, so I will spend my finishing grant/seventh year looking for jobs and making final edits.

I have friends in the Literature department, and they usually finish their dissertations in 5 years. I think everyone has their own method for doing things, and every discipline has different demands; I would never call my colleagues lazy or scared or idle. What I am more concerned with is my university''s belief that everyone should move through the program at the same pace, no matter their situation. Obviously I have friends with major writer''s block, and maybe they aren''t interested in finishing their dissertation, but that''s their own business. I could never judge them for not being as ''efficient'' as me. Also, I think that if you''re interested in teaching, you should build your teaching portfolio in grad school. Sadly, this is often construed as a distracting side project by my department. Just because I go to Harvard doesn''t mean that jobs will magically appear when I finish. I know from my colleagues'' experiences that a solid teaching portfolio will be more helpful in the long run than barreling through the program.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/20/2008 9:46:17 AM
Author: erica k

I have friends in the Literature department, and they usually finish their dissertations in 5 years. I think everyone has their own method for doing things, and every discipline has different demands; I would never call my colleagues lazy or scared or idle. What I am more concerned with is my university''s belief that everyone should move through the program at the same pace, no matter their situation. Obviously I have friends with major writer''s block, and maybe they aren''t interested in finishing their dissertation, but that''s their own business. I could never judge them for not being as ''efficient'' as me. Also, I think that if you''re interested in teaching, you should build your teaching portfolio in grad school. Sadly, this is often construed as a distracting side project by my department. Just because I go to Harvard doesn''t mean that jobs will magically appear when I finish. I know from my colleagues'' experiences that a solid teaching portfolio will be more helpful in the long run than barreling through the program.

I agree with both of these points, this has been my experience too. Jobs certainly don''t appear! In fact, graduating from Harvard might give you that edge to get a job at a teaching college! It''ll take more than that to get a job at a top tier place (as they seem to want you to do) and I think that profs often forget that the rest of the world isn''t as impressed with the importance of their school as they are! Get the job you want, just keep that plan mum from the profs so they will feel motivated to invest in you.

I was told not to teach at all, and only taught my first class after graduating. I love teaching, and now that I have that on my record it will help me a lot on the job market ("Oh she isn''t just a research fiend, she can also teach! Bonus!")

I took 6 years in grad school in part because I switched specializations after 2 years. My impression is that my collagues in my field don''t care how long I was in grad school, they care that I have three first-authors publications in top tier journals! haha Now I am starting my second year of a post-doc so my total post-graduate work is almost 8 years.

Now that I am graduated and learning more about my field, I am convinced that in my field it does not pay at all to rush. You cannot get a job without a VERY VERY impressive publication record, and that takes a lot of time. In my field (social psychology), from the time you submit a journal article until it is accepted for publication, and thus counts on your vita, is a minimum of 6 months, but more often is 2 years with revisions and multiple rounds of peer review. This is very different than most other scientific fields and is something we are trying to change. The content of our articles also takes longer to prepare than many other fields. In the top journals, each article will have between 3 and 7 experiments, and if at the lower end of number of experiments, then the paper will often include longitudinal studies that took a year to run. Experiments typically take 3 - 6 months to run a single study. It can take a long time to write up those results, because unlike medicine or bio, you cannot simply describe the result. You have to write a philosophic argument in the introduction that convinces people that you theory is important and your results matter. So a single journal article represents at least 1 - 3 years running the research and writing it up, then another 1-2 years trying to get published. So it is unheard of for people to graduate in less than 5 years, and even those who do graduate in 5 years need a post-doc to get their publication record up to snuff. I have been trying to convince my colleagues still in grad school that they need to assume that a post-doc is required time at the end of grad school--required to get a job! Some of my friends got lucky and got jobs (at mid level schools) right out of grad school, but the rest had to do post docs. Most of the graduates from my programme end up in academe eventually. I know of only one personally who left, out of a total of probably 20 students I have known graduate.

DD

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/20/2008 8:19:16 AM
Author: Independent Gal
Actually, my aramaic is not half bad. I learned it that time I got stranded in Aramaialand. Not much chance to use it these days out here in middle america, though. Shame.

(Seriously though, that''s the language that a lot of older Jewish prayer is written in, right?)

I''m not totally sure, but yes I think it is an ancient eastern mediterranean language that Jews and others in the area used to speak... Somehow I associate it will the Byzantine empire. Maybe someone else knows!

Or maybe I am full of s&#* and made up the word! Although I try to maintain with my family that I know everything, they sometimes accuse me of making things up on occasion!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Here is somthing my friend in grad school who is preggers with her second child wrote to me today. We have the same supervisor, and her supervisor also supervised her husband a few years ago. She is graduating in May and has won the same government post-doc that I currently have. She is very accomplished for her stage in her career so the profs have been really taken aback by her decision to have a family now:

"Yesterday [our supervisor] Ron and I were talking about how to best start out the post-doc with the maternity leave on the horizon, and we were having a
nice conversation, and then he said, "now I''ll just have to work on convincing you not to have more than two kids! Or maybe it''s your husband I have to work on!" I was so taken aback all I could do was laugh awkwardly. Then I left his office thinking where the hell am I? China? My advisor is trying to limit my number of offspring??? I guess they can support our choices to a certain extent, but eventually their true feelings slip"


Siiiiggggghhhh... and it continues.

DD

 

[Independent Gal]

Oh, so Erica you''re a Haardvark then, are you? We don''t like those where I come from.

Since it''s ladies of an academic persuasion over here on this thread who are familiar with these kinds of things, the press that just picked up my bk ms (as mentioned over on the other thread) is CUP. Which is why I''m excited.

 

[Independent Gal]

And Dreamer you''re not full of $h!t. Aramaic is indeed an ancient semitic language.

 

[Independent Gal]

Oh, just noticed one more thing. Erica, in terms of how to prepare yourself for the market, whether to focus on a strong teaching portfolio or on publishing a tonne of stuff or on generally looking productive (by means of being fast) partly depends on the kind of job you want to go after. If you''re aiming for liberal arts colleges, then, yeah, you want to be a hot teacher. If you''re aiming for a big research university / Ivy + type school, then you''ll be wanting to look productive. They couldn''t give a cr@p what kind of teacher you are.

Then again, if you are just hoping for a JOB in general then I guess having some of each is definitely a good way to go!

Just from having watched my grad school pals all finish up and head on out over the last few years...

 

[erica k]

Indy--

CUP? Well done!

Art history is such a funny field because although research may be important, there are very few upper-tier research university positions available (it isn''t a hot field, nor has it ever been!). I think many of my colleagues believe that the name-recognition hurts their chances at many of the small liberal arts colleges. The selection committee often assumes that Harvard grads are more interested in clawing their way back to an Ivy League school and will only spend a few years at the college building their CV (teaching, committee work, and of course, publishing) rather than establishing long-lasting and meaningful relationships with the department and students. Whether or not this is true is beyond my knowledge, but I would do almost anything to get a job in a teaching college.

Also, even if the research university doesn''t care whether I''m a good teacher, I certainly would care! A good friend of mine just started a job at a large state university and feels woefully unprepared for teaching a lecture survey of American history. His specialty is urban history, so it''s related but not his field of expertise. One of the nice things about teaching often in grad school is that I am also learning to teach unfamiliar topics, media, and periods. I focus on American architecture and urbanism, but right now I am teaching for a photography survey. I love learning more about my discipline, and there''s nothing like being forced to stay two steps ahead of your students to make you really understand the material, so that''s my other reason for spending a leisurely 7 years in the program. It''s true, I''m one of those ''perpetual students;'' in fact, I can''t get enough of lectures and seminars! I know, I know, I''m in denial, because one of these days I''ll have to get a real job.