Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Meyer

[pixies]

After having a custom project not turn out as I had wanted (craftsmanship issues), I've taken time to regroup and decided what I want for my forever ring. I sent a quote request to James Meyer, Caleb Meyer, and Ann Mckay for three stone OEC bezel platform rings. James Meyer is my top choice. I've been drooling over his rings for quite some time now. His platform solitaire is my favorite design of his so I also asked for a quote on that. I was concerned about him not being able to do my project for whatever reason so the other two designers were my back up plan.

I was pleasantly surprised that James responded back within 2 days. In my original email to him I had expressed concerns about a bezeled three stone ring on a size 4-4.5 finger though (I'm not one of the lucky ladies with a small ring size and long, elegant fingers. I look like I have child's hands. ) It seems like my apprehension was called for as James is afraid the ring would in fact look awkward. Coatimundi has a lovely three stone bezel ring as well as a small ring size so I think it can be done as long as you go with small diamonds. I'd chance it for a right hand ring, but with having to scrap my last ring I'm not willing to gamble. I am definitely going to take James' advice and go with the solitaire. That rules Caleb and Ann out because I'm not wild for their solitaires like I am JM's. Lovely, just not what I'm looking for. I'd like to state that James Meyer's quote for the ring was the most reasonable of all of them! I was shocked!

I had asked for a quote on this ring: http://www.jamesmeyerjewelry.com/pieces/1387.htm with a 6mm-ish OEC (warmer colored J, K,L, etc.). I like the white and green gold, but would also like to entertain other color choices such as yellow gold with platinum accents. James sent me pictures of a ring he recently completed as well as the diamond he thinks I should go with. It is a 1.05 K VS1 antique cushion from 1880-1890. The dimensions are 5.6 x 6.3mm.

I don't know if I should publish the exact price but it is hoovering around 5000. I could buy a bigger August Vintage cushion in the same color for that price. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=16&color=384&optSym=64&resultsColumns=268435471

It should be noted that the antique stone is graded by EGL lab in NY. I know they are soft on grading, but this is typically the type of certification you see on old stones. Color is not important to me so I'm not worried about it being off a grade or two. I think the diamond looks really lovely in the picture, I *love* the soft shape, and James seems to think it's a winner. I much prefer the shape of older cushions to their new antique style counterparts. I spend a lot of time perusing Old World Diamonds. While most older stones have a certain charm even if they aren't the loveliest of the bunch, their are some definite duds as well. So, I definitely expect a pretty antique stone with a nice shape to carry a premium, but do you think it is too high (grossly overpriced, just a bit, or right on target)? I do prefer the charm of an antique stone to a newly cut one (even knowing the newer ones will outperform an older stone), but it does sting a bit to compare it price wise.

If James Meyer accepted outside stones, I'd probably let price be king and get an August Vintage Cushion or Round or scour Old World Diamonds or ebay for a cheaper antique stone. This is not an option though.

So these are my choices:
1. Get this stone
2. Ask if he can find a smaller OEC for less $$$
3. Walk away.

I just love his designs so much it'd be hard to go with this option. After my last jewelry ordeal I want to do it right this time and then be done with it! I know I won't have to worry about quality with him, and it's not a new design so I don't have to worry about not liking it. I think the big question I'm asking is: is it worth it to pay a premium on the stone to work with designer you desire (if that is even the case, it could be fairly priced. I'll wait to hear everyone's feedback)? Suggestions? What would you pick?

I don't know who else I'd go to for a bezeled ring. I am contemplating Single Stone as my next option since I believe they work with customer's stones, but I really haven't seen much of their bezel work. I live in California so I could drive to there showroom to get a good feel for it, but I'm in Monterey so it'd be quite a drive! Anyone have any other suggestions as to who might be good with an interesting bezel design (no pave or diamond accents)? If I don't go with James, I don't wont a copy-cat design. If I go with another designer I will eventually buy a rhr colored stone ring from him.

Also:
I really don't plan on upgrading in the future so the ability to do so isn't important because if years down the line I want something bigger I'd just buy something separate and keep the ring as a rhr as James Meyer pieces are so lovely I would never dream of disassembling one. Sorry for the length. I'm sure there are a multitude of typos and misused words, as I typed this quickly (hopefully you won't hold it against me ).

THANKS IN ADVANCE! I added a poll so even if you don't respond you can vote.

The pictures are of the stone he is suggesting as well as a cushion ring he recently completed in yellow and green gold.

 

[antelope1]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

What a saga! But down to nitty gritty here -- on the face of the loose diamond, what is that blue thing at 5 o'clock? Reflection? Lint? A crystal inclusion?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

Ooh the diamond looks really lovely (but like Antelope said - what is that blue thing? Reflection?). If it's just a picture thing and not an inclusion, I think the diamond looks gorgeous.

More importantly, it sounds like you want an actual antique, rather than a modern antique-style like the AVCs. Since JM doesn't accept outside stones, I would go for this ring. It's around $5K total? Those settings range around $1200 so the diamond is really only $3800 right?

 

[pixies]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

Ooh the diamond looks really lovely (but like Antelope said - what is that blue thing? Reflection?). If it's just a picture thing and not an inclusion, I think the diamond looks gorgeous.

More importantly, it sounds like you want an actual antique, rather than a modern antique-style like the AVCs. Since JM doesn't accept outside stones, I would go for this ring. It's around $5K total? Those settings range around $1200 so the diamond is really only $3800 right?

4900 for the diamond, 1300 for the setting. I'd be less torn if it were 3800

 

[pixies]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

What a saga! But down to nitty gritty here -- on the face of the loose diamond, what is that blue thing at 5 o'clock? Reflection? Lint? A crystal inclusion?

I wondered that as well. I was assuming it was a weird reflection caused by the camera. If I were to move forward with this purchase, I would definitely ask if that was an inclusion or a glitch. I requested an eye-clean diamond in my quote so I'm sure thinking this one should be.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

Ooh the diamond looks really lovely (but like Antelope said - what is that blue thing? Reflection?). If it's just a picture thing and not an inclusion, I think the diamond looks gorgeous.

More importantly, it sounds like you want an actual antique, rather than a modern antique-style like the AVCs. Since JM doesn't accept outside stones, I would go for this ring. It's around $5K total? Those settings range around $1200 so the diamond is really only $3800 right?

4900 for the diamond, 1300 for the setting. I'd be less torn if it were 3800

Oh darn. So much for that way to justify it! Still, it looks beautiful, but definitely ask JM about the blue thing first.

 

[pixies]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

Also, I'm no size maven. I'm not trying to hit the magical one carat mark. I care more about the overall look of the stone and could definitely go down in size. I think I'm going to contact James and see if he can remain on the lookout for something smaller/less expensive. I contacted Ari at Single Stone for a quote on a stone that has similar specs and he responded within five minutes. That's customer service right there! It was quite a bit less than the one from James Meyers. Both shops produce amazing pieces. They are just so different. I'm 99.99999% certain I'm getting an antique stone, I just couldn't believe I could get a bigger AVC for the same price (not that I want something bigger or a newly cut stone for that matter). I have the luxury of not being in a time crunch to get this done being that I'm already married -- I can play the waiting game. I plan on wearing this piece without a wedding band since it is such a different look I feel like it can hold its own. I only want one ring this time around regardless of which designer I end up with as I had a tendency of only wearing one ring when I had a set before.

Even if I don't get this diamond I'm still curious to see if people think the price of the diamond is on point.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

The stone definetly is more expensive than the comperables on PS (between 500 to 1000 more).

 

[pixies]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

The stone definetly is more expensive than the comperables on PS (between 500 to 1000 more).

Thank you CharmyPoo! I know you are familiar with cushions of different styles so I'm glad you responded. I think I'm going to let this one go as much as I would love to have a piece of his soon. It doesn't make any sense to over pay for something. The only reason I had any doubts about what to do is because I know I would love the ring. I wish he worked with outside diamonds still.

I'm going to ask him to look for OECs around .75ct. I don't know if those will be any more reasonable but it doesn't hurt to ask! Caleb Meyer wanted $3517 for this OEC: 0.86ct I VS1 small to medium culet, 6.11-6.02x3.7 EGl cert. He was suggesting .47 HSI2 weight total sides for $1164 (I'd have all sorts of mind clean issues with si2 egl, esp. at that price). He pretty much ignored the proportions I was looking for. Upgradable's three stone from JM had a center that size and it took up her whole finger and i think hers was a 6.5 or 7ish. She had bigger sides but still I don't know how'd that all would work out on my finger. It'd be an expensive experiment . I saw Upgradable's JM for sale a while back and would have snatched it up if my finger was bigger! She has great taste! I wouldn't be picky about going over a certain size if it weren't bezeled but the metal takes up extra space so I'd rather be overly cautious with proportions than be uncomfortable.

I'd love to see how Coatimundi feels about her three stone, i.e. is it comfortable, does it overlap her finger? Her's has 5mm stones so it'd take up similar space to what I'm contemplating. I know she is PS staff so I don't know if she can comment but I just am curious since she is the only one I've seen with a ring that size and style.

I am also going to get in touch with JBEG. Maybe they can keep their eyes peeled for me.

 

[kelpie]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

Hmm. I would honestly talk to singlestone. Not only are they technically accomplished enough to do a lovely bezel, they were so gracious when I asked them to re-cut an ebay sourced stone and then gave me a fantastic price for a setting at a later date (they did not know they would get the setting work when they cut the stone). I would definitely mention you found them from PS, as they know we tend to be cheapskates (I mean "bargain hunters") and will totally work with you to get what you want for what you want to spend. For example, I wanted my earrings reset, and was frankly expecting it to be very costly for platinum milgrain bezels. They told me I could save a lot of money if they ordered stock platinum bezels, gold earnuts, and did their hand milgraining on them. They ended up actually giving me platinum earnuts, according the the appraiser's acid test. They look fantastic and I don't think I could have gotten any kind of platinum setting, anywhere, any cheaper plus they like like a million bucks! Vote for singlestone bezel!

 

[lovemybling]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

My sister got both her ring and stone from Ari at Singlestone. Said he was great to work with. Her Ring is beautiful. And she is SUPER PICKY. Good luck on your search.

 

[lovemybling]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

I was looking through the Eye candy folder do you like this ring and designer?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-back-from-thailand-with-new-ring-from-sally.126901//

Just to give you maybe somewhere else to look

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

Wellll.... the AVC option is about 1mm larger in diameter on one of the measurements and a weensy bit smaller on the other. All told it would be a much larger stone face up. For me, the diamond is far more important than the setting, and I like big diamonds, so for my money I would opt for the AVC.

When you look at the price of the JM stone, though, factor in the total including the setting. I am willing the bet that a setting from SS would cost much more and would probably balance the extra cost on the diamond from Jim.

 

[missydebby]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

I totally get where you're coming from with your question. I, too, would recommend Singlestone first. Why? For all the above reasons the others mentioned and this: I have a designer I'm totally Gaga for - Leon Mege. He will work with outside stones but prefers to source his own. Wanna know what? For my ering, he sourced my cushion - a 1.01 E VS2 and came in at one of the LOWEST prices. Now I'm working on a mother's ring. I looked at potential stones (greenish yellow diamond) with Leon and 4 other vendors. Know what? He came in the lowest by thousands. No joke. My price ranges were his at under 2K for a .60 greenish yellow gorgeous oval. The median price was 5k and the highest was 7k for comparable stones. So what I'm saying is that not all fabulous designers pad the bottom line by sourcing their own stones. Like in Leon's case, I think it's quality and aesthetic control.

Since this is such an important decision, I'd go to Singlestone. Maybe call them first and give them an idea of what you are looking for and perhaps they can get some ideas together for you. It'd be worth the trip. Good luck!

 

[pixies]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

I'm certain now on not going with the antique cushion. The quality and extra size you get for the same amount with the AVC is really shocking to me. It seems if you are comfortable with lower colors you really get an extra bang for your buck. If I got a diamond from GOG, I'd go for .75-1.00ct. My last diamond was in this range, and I liked the size on my finger. I'd go even smaller for the three stone. All those small AVRs are really tempting. I can't believe someone hasn't scooped them all up for five stone rings yet!

Dreamer_D: Balancing the price of the diamond to the ring is a valid point. I'm not doing any pave, but I know intricate design work could be quite costly even in a plain gold/platinum setting. I will give your advice great weight during this process. Too bad I didn't go with James Meyer earlier. I would not be in this situation!

I've had my eye on this stone for a really long time. There was another of the same color that was a point or two smaller, but it looks like it sold not too long ago.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6812/

If GOG had .25 Js(hint,hint) this would be good for a three stone for me:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7592/

I do have a question about the AVRs though. Are some of these re-cuts of stones in less desirable color or clarity? I just always notice there seems to be more lower color and clarity in these than the AVCs. I was just curious. If not, I guess the AVCs just call for a higher clarity due to the nature of the cut. I wish the AVRs (or at least some) had open culets. I'd be all over them in that case.

In comparing the AVC I was referring to earlier in the thread I much prefer the facet pattern on this one:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7549/
than this one
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7440/
So if I wanted that size I'd go with the L. I prefer the proportion of the maltese cross on the L.

I will probably still get an antique diamond (just a less expensive one), in which case a pricier Single Stone setting wouldn't be a deal breaker. I find their prices on 1st Dibs for the 1 ct rings to be pretty fair overall. Perhaps James Meyer will pull one out of his hat though! I'm not going to rush. I think I will definitely ask Single Stone for a quote on a couple of their bezeled settings. They do detail work impeccably. SS rings seem to have more of touch of feminine whimsy feel whereas I feel James Meyer is more structural/architectural yet delicate. I like both styles. My husband loved the James Meyer rings and would like a band from him so that's another point to consider. I'd love for us to have something somewhat coordinated. He hasn't seen Single Stone's bands yet though so there's a chance he might like them as well.

Kelpie, I followed your thread back when you first got the recut. I loved your results and your setting! They did a stunning job. I can't believe how reasonable the price of the recut is for the result you got! I really want some bezel studs EXACTLY like that. I also like that Single Stone is in state so that if I wanted to go look at diamonds I have that option. It could be a fun trip. I don't mind paying tax for the peace of mind that seeing a stone in person would give.

I think I need to just see if James has anything lower in price. If he doesn't think he can source anything less expensive, then I can source my stone from wherever I chose because at that point I'd be going with a designer that will work with my diamond. I'll buy a fun rhr ring from him if I don't get this so I'll definitely get my JM fix one way or another.

 

[pixies]

Re: Advice on antique cushion diamond and a ring by James Me

I totally get where you're coming from with your question. I, too, would recommend Singlestone first. Why? For all the above reasons the others mentioned and this: I have a designer I'm totally Gaga for - Leon Mege. He will work with outside stones but prefers to source his own. Wanna know what? For my ering, he sourced my cushion - a 1.01 E VS2 and came in at one of the LOWEST prices. Now I'm working on a mother's ring. I looked at potential stones (greenish yellow diamond) with Leon and 4 other vendors. Know what? He came in the lowest by thousands. No joke. My price ranges were his at under 2K for a .60 greenish yellow gorgeous oval. The median price was 5k and the highest was 7k for comparable stones. So what I'm saying is that not all fabulous designers pad the bottom line by sourcing their own stones. Like in Leon's case, I think it's quality and aesthetic control.

Since this is such an important decision, I'd go to Singlestone. Maybe call them first and give them an idea of what you are looking for and perhaps they can get some ideas together for you. It'd be worth the trip. Good luck!

Oh it seems like we are on the same wavelength Missydebby! The stone I got a quote from was 1200 cheaper than the JM as well as facing up larger, and I don't even need a stone that size! They seem to price their stones really competitively. I am with you about the padding the bottom line part. I know they are in the business to make a profit but the diamond from JM just seemed wayyy higher than other antique stone with similar specs from OWD and even the cushion from SS. I don't mind paying a little bit more for the convenience of having it all in house but when it gets to be 1k difference it gets to be a bit much. Perhaps the vendors they are sourcing these stones from are overcharging them initially, idk. It seems like Caleb's stones had a similar markup. Plus my heart is set on OEC.

Who wouldn't want multiple pieces from Leon??? If I didn't want a bezel I'd be seriously considering a double claw prong solitaire from him. I am really clumsy though so I feel like I could really benefit from the protection a bezel offers. In all seriousness though, when you can tell a vendor is fair in prices, it makes returning to them all the more easy thus creating a loyal following. I wouldn't care if the JM setting cost more than what it does because I feel the quality of the design is there to back it up. I just don't care for the overpriced stone.

I think the solution is I just need to get at least four new pieces of jewelry. I'd like a pair of AVR studs. A James Meyer right hand ring. A three stone ring, maybe AVCs for that one. andddd a bezeled OEC ring from Single Stone. Sounds like an excellent plan. Now I just need a fairy godmother!

Thanks to everyone else who posted suggestions as well! I have a lot to consider. Maybe Rhino or someone unrelated to GOG but knowledgeable about AVRs will see this. I'm really curious whether some of these are recuts to move less desirable product. I doubt he can comment on this thread though since I'm considering stones from him. I remember in a video he said they generally only cut higher clarity AVCs and that when a lower one pops up it wasn't intentional (i.e. something happened during the cutting process). I might have to shoot an email about this. It doesn't affect my opinion of them one way or another. I think it's smart to cut a stone in a style that will help it move if it has specs that'd make it harder to move otherwise (such as being visibly included).