Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Advice before I buy, please

D

dummyforadiamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
7
Good morning y''all,

I''ve tried to read as much as I cud before this post, but I feel I understand less now then before I started my "research". This would be a replacement of my wife''s inexpensive (I was naive then ;-)) engagement ring and I really want make sure I picked the "best".

I''m very confused on the 4A "Value Cut" grading of this diamond, since the specs look very good to me and therefore I''m questioning my selection and it''s price $6k.

Any help and advice will be very appreciated.

Shape: Princess
Carat Weight: 1.07
Color: E
Clarity: If
Cut Grade: Excellent
Table %: 71.00
Depth %: 72.29
Girdle: Very Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet: N
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.80-5.67x4.10
Length/Width ratio: 1.02

Thank y''all for your time and hope y''all have a great day.
 
Date: 5/6/2010 10:06:54 AM
Author:dummyforadiamond
Good morning y'all,

I've tried to read as much as I cud before this post, but I feel I understand less now then before I started my 'research'. This would be a replacement of my wife's inexpensive (I was naive then ;-)) engagement ring and I really want make sure I picked the 'best'.

I'm very confused on the 4A 'Value Cut' grading of this diamond, since the specs look very good to me and therefore I'm questioning my selection and it's price $6k.

Any help and advice will be very appreciated.

Shape: Princess
Carat Weight: 1.07
Color: E
Clarity: If
Cut Grade: Excellent
Table %: 71.00
Depth %: 72.29
Girdle: Very Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet: N
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.80-5.67x4.10
Length/Width ratio: 1.02

Thank y'all for your time and hope y'all have a great day.
Click to expand...
Hi DD and welcome!

Firstly with Princess, images are really needed such as ASET and detailed photos if you can get them. Is this diamond GIA graded? Is it for sale online or from a store jeweller? The price is on the low end for similar online stones....

One thing you would need to check, the girdle is graded as very thin, check that this isn't a potential durability issue. Also just to let you know unless you want very high colour and clarity you could lower both and still have a very white and clean diamond if you preferred.

The basic proportions look ok but there is really no way to begin to get an idea of the cut quality without images unfortunately, also the ' cut grade' being Excellent is probably vendor applied and as such is no real indication of the cut or beauty of the stone.
 
Thank you for such a quick response Lorelei, I appreciate that.

I''m not able to get any picture/s that''s for sure. The diamond is GIA graded and it''s been shipped to a local jeweler store. The store price matched online price of a competitor and ordered it (probably so I can''t go and buy it from them ;-)).

I would like to get the best I can afford for my wife, I''ve been working hard and I''ve been saving money for a while so I want to make sure I get a great deal.

My understanding is that because the table % is larger than the depth % this diamond isn''t as good. But as I said previously I''m confused. 4A "Value Cut" by AGS scares me a lot tho.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.
 
Date: 5/6/2010 11:06:49 AM
Author: dummyforadiamond
Thank you for such a quick response Lorelei, I appreciate that.

I'm not able to get any picture/s that's for sure. The diamond is GIA graded and it's been shipped to a local jeweler store. The store price matched online price of a competitor and ordered it (probably so I can't go and buy it from them ;-)).

I would like to get the best I can afford for my wife, I've been working hard and I've been saving money for a while so I want to make sure I get a great deal.

My understanding is that because the table % is larger than the depth % this diamond isn't as good. But as I said previously I'm confused. 4A 'Value Cut' by AGS scares me a lot tho.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.
Click to expand...
You are welcome and I completely understand! I know your wife is going to be blown away, its a wonderful thing you are doing for her!

The depth % is actually larger than the table, which is fine, but its no guarantee of beauty regrettably, Princess are tricky and without images we are working in the dark so to speak but there are still things we can to to help. I haven't heard of this ' Value Cut' term before, but still such terms are no guarantee of any level of beauty or cut quality.

What I would suggest is this. If you have time, go view some well cut Princess in person, if there is a Jareds closeby go and look at their AGS0 Peerless Princess to see how well cut Princess look, then you have a basis for comparison.

Order an ASET scope and learn how to use it, they are straightforward to use with a little practise and the $50 investment in the scope is well worth it I think for a purchase of this magnitude. Go and see the stone and use your ASET, if you like it then you can go ahead but ideally make sure you have a return policy so you can get the diamond independantly appraised which is always prudent with such an expensive purchase.

Click here for ASET scope details.

appraiser tool

Above all take your time, there are lots of diamonds out there and time spent researching and comparing will be time well spent.
 
I see that the diamond is an E-IF which means you are paying a price premium for those specs (color/clarity). If you were to reduce those to say a G-VS1/VS2 I feel you could get alot more for your money. An excellent/ideal cut will determine how the diamond performs. I feel you are better off letting this diamond go. I have attached a few examples of nice stones around 6k. Is the 6k budget just for the stone?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6945/ 1.06 I - VS1 - AGS Ideal

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2296763.htm 1.03 H VS1 - Whiteflash Super Ideal Princess

These are just two examples that have images that will allow you to post them here for experts to evaluate if you are making a good choice. Plus the vendors are there to help you as well. You can even have a diamond shipped out to you for inspection to see if the color/clarity is to your liking. What I am getting it is I think you are better shopping around some more.

John
 
Date: 5/6/2010 11:20:44 AM
Author: jpzc04
I see that the diamond is an E-IF which means you are paying a price premium for those specs (color/clarity). If you were to reduce those to say a G-VS1/VS2 I feel you could get alot more for your money. An excellent/ideal cut will determine how the diamond performs. I feel you are better off letting this diamond go. I have attached a few examples of nice stones around 6k. Is the 6k budget just for the stone?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6945/ 1.06 I - VS1 - AGS Ideal

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2296763.htm 1.03 H VS1 - Whiteflash Super Ideal Princess

These are just two examples that have images that will allow you to post them here for experts to evaluate if you are making a good choice. Plus the vendors are there to help you as well. You can even have a diamond shipped out to you for inspection to see if the color/clarity is to your liking. What I am getting it is I think you are better shopping around some more.

John
Click to expand...
Hi John,

I just wanted to balance this because some buyers do find that top colour and clarity hold very special significance to them and will gladly pay any associated premiums, as such we need to be mindful of that....Its really no reason to dismiss a diamond because of it if that is what you were suggesting?
 
Date: 5/6/2010 11:46:20 AM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 5/6/2010 11:20:44 AM

Author: jpzc04

I see that the diamond is an E-IF which means you are paying a price premium for those specs (color/clarity). If you were to reduce those to say a G-VS1/VS2 I feel you could get alot more for your money. An excellent/ideal cut will determine how the diamond performs. I feel you are better off letting this diamond go. I have attached a few examples of nice stones around 6k. Is the 6k budget just for the stone?


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6945/ 1.06 I - VS1 - AGS Ideal


http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2296763.htm 1.03 H VS1 - Whiteflash Super Ideal Princess


These are just two examples that have images that will allow you to post them here for experts to evaluate if you are making a good choice. Plus the vendors are there to help you as well. You can even have a diamond shipped out to you for inspection to see if the color/clarity is to your liking. What I am getting it is I think you are better shopping around some more.


John
Click to expand...

Hi John,


I just wanted to balance this because some buyers do find that top colour and clarity hold very special significance to them and will gladly pay any associated premiums, as such we need to be mindful of that....Its really no reason to dismiss a diamond because of it if that is what you were suggesting?
Click to expand...

It was only a suggestion. I guess I came across a little strong with my opinion, but it is just that, my opinion. He said he wanted the best for his money and based on the diamond he referenced I thought he might be able to get "more" for his money if he continued shopping. (sorry for the threadjack)

John
 
Date: 5/6/2010 12:15:41 PM
Author: jpzc04

Date: 5/6/2010 11:46:20 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 5/6/2010 11:20:44 AM

Author: jpzc04

I see that the diamond is an E-IF which means you are paying a price premium for those specs (color/clarity). If you were to reduce those to say a G-VS1/VS2 I feel you could get alot more for your money. An excellent/ideal cut will determine how the diamond performs. I feel you are better off letting this diamond go. I have attached a few examples of nice stones around 6k. Is the 6k budget just for the stone?


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6945/ 1.06 I - VS1 - AGS Ideal


http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2296763.htm 1.03 H VS1 - Whiteflash Super Ideal Princess


These are just two examples that have images that will allow you to post them here for experts to evaluate if you are making a good choice. Plus the vendors are there to help you as well. You can even have a diamond shipped out to you for inspection to see if the color/clarity is to your liking. What I am getting it is I think you are better shopping around some more.


John
Click to expand...

Hi John,


I just wanted to balance this because some buyers do find that top colour and clarity hold very special significance to them and will gladly pay any associated premiums, as such we need to be mindful of that....Its really no reason to dismiss a diamond because of it if that is what you were suggesting?
Click to expand...

It was only a suggestion. I guess I came across a little strong with my opinion, but it is just that, my opinion. He said he wanted the best for his money and based on the diamond he referenced I thought he might be able to get ''more'' for his money if he continued shopping. (sorry for the threadjack)

John
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation, I just wanted to clarify so we can best help the OP.
 
DD, what is your priority here? You have chosen very high clarity and color, is this because you specifically want that or because you simply want an eye clean and white stone? Do you want as big a diamond as you can get? A sparkly stone is of course assumed
2.gif


Are you open to buying online?
 
Ditto dreamer''s questions - your answers will determine where you should be looking. One thing I would suggest is to consider purchasing your own ASET (runs you $50 plus shipping: http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp) and taking it in when you look at the diamond again. If you read the tutorials Lorelei posted first you''ll have a good idea of what to look for



Nice SN by the way, we should really all be dummyforadiamond1, 2, 3,...
2.gif
 
Thank you guys and girls for all your inputs, I REALLY appreciate that.

jpz04 you don''t have to apologize for stating your opinion, if I didn''t want to hear it I''d not post here. I appreciate your time you took as well as your effort. thank you

I know I could get "more" of a diamond, but I took in consideration my wifes small hand and thought a 1ct is even on the bigger size. That being said, I know my wife likes the princess cut so I''m right there. Regarding the other aspects, my budget was initially 5k +/- but then I found this diamond ONLINE and let 3 stores (2 online and 1 B/M) to price match each other and come up with the best price. One store offered 6k without a few bucks. I''s thinking; OK it''s the second best in color, the best in perfection and the cut is excellent, it''s a nice diamond. I spent a lot of time searching and comparing prices online and this seamed to me a good deal.

Until, I came to a site that has a software called AGA Grader. I put the infos in and it came with 4A "Value Cut" grade. And thats where I started questioning my decision. I also read more and more about the polish and symmetry (both very good on the diamond I selected) their relationship to cut and I got even more nervous.

I hope it explains a little more.

FYI, the diamond just got in, that''s what the jeweler says; "it is as close to a perfect of a diamond I have ever seen".

Thanks again to all of you for your time, advice and all the help.

Hope y''all are having a great day.

dummy........
 
are you open to buying online?

whiteflash.com has ASET pictures of their princess cut diamonds, if you post these some of the experts can help you evaluate

some examples
F VS2

H VS1

note I am not an expert so perhaps someone who knows more can suggest some better diamonds but these look good to me!
 
Date: 5/6/2010 6:50:24 PM
Author: dummyforadiamond
Thank you guys and girls for all your inputs, I REALLY appreciate that.

jpz04 you don''t have to apologize for stating your opinion, if I didn''t want to hear it I''d not post here. I appreciate your time you took as well as your effort. thank you

I know I could get ''more'' of a diamond, but I took in consideration my wifes small hand and thought a 1ct is even on the bigger size. That being said, I know my wife likes the princess cut so I''m right there. Regarding the other aspects, my budget was initially 5k +/- but then I found this diamond ONLINE and let 3 stores (2 online and 1 B/M) to price match each other and come up with the best price. One store offered 6k without a few bucks. I''s thinking; OK it''s the second best in color, the best in perfection and the cut is excellent, it''s a nice diamond. I spent a lot of time searching and comparing prices online and this seamed to me a good deal.

Until, I came to a site that has a software called AGA Grader. I put the infos in and it came with 4A ''Value Cut'' grade. And thats where I started questioning my decision. I also read more and more about the polish and symmetry (both very good on the diamond I selected) their relationship to cut and I got even more nervous.

I hope it explains a little more.

FYI, the diamond just got in, that''s what the jeweler says; ''it is as close to a perfect of a diamond I have ever seen''.

Thanks again to all of you for your time, advice and all the help.

Hope y''all are having a great day.

dummy........
Click to expand...

This makes me very nervous
32.gif
. Have you looked at a lot of princess cuts on line to see what a well cut princess should look like?
Looking at pics wont help with the light return but might help you to decide if the pattern you are setting in the stone is what you
like.

You can look at Whiteflash ACAs to see the patterns on well cut princess.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/search.aspx (pick princess and ACA, then click on a diamond).


Also, good old gold usually has some nice cuts
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondSearch.php
 
could be sales talk for all we know.
 
you absolutely right and I''m taking it with a grain of salt for now.
 
I think you should have at least 3-5 diamonds brough in for you to compare, and also shop around and try to see as many well cut princess stones as you can, including AGS0 graded stones, to make sure that you develop your eye for what a well cut diamond can look like.
 
OK, I think the word "CUT" that''s what''s confusing, as I said I''m a DUMMY
35.gif


Please help me to understand this - Y''all are saying; look and compare it with a ideal (well, good, etc.) cut diamond, it sounds like the diamond I picked isn''t cut right, yet is states "EXCELLENT". Isn''t GIA''s "excellent" cut the best grade of cut? Does it mean GIA isn''t accurate in their grading in respect to "eye candy" measurements?

Have a nice day.
41.gif
 
Hi Dummy (sorry, but when I welcome you in this way, it sounds wrong),

The problem is that GIA does not grade Cut on anything but round brilliants. In other words, there is no GIA cut-grade for princess-cuts. The fact that you found someone mentioning this stone as a GIA-Excellent only means that this person finds himself capable of slapping the word ''Excellent'' on a diamond, while combining it with GIA (as if it were an independent grade).

In reality, it means nothing.

Which does not mean that this particular stone has a bad or a good cut. There simply is not sufficient information to judge.

I am wondering where you got the idea that this stone is a 4A, and on which ''scale'' or ''system'' is this based?

Live long,
 
Date: 5/7/2010 8:04:30 AM
Author: dummyforadiamond
OK, I think the word 'CUT' that's what's confusing, as I said I'm a DUMMY
35.gif


Please help me to understand this - Y'all are saying; look and compare it with a ideal (well, good, etc.) cut diamond, it sounds like the diamond I picked isn't cut right, yet is states 'EXCELLENT'. Isn't GIA's 'excellent' cut the best grade of cut? Does it mean GIA isn't accurate in their grading in respect to 'eye candy' measurements?

Have a nice day.
41.gif
Click to expand...

Because GIA does not grade a princess in cut performance so whatever cut grade listed by the vendor can be anything, depending on how trustworthy the vendor is and how well he knows his princesses. AGS is the only lab that grades princess cut in cut performance which is why we are suggesting you use that as a baseline for comparison so that you know what to look for.
 
"Hi Dummy (sorry, but when I welcome you in this way, it sounds wrong),"

Don''t worry Paul, I''m too stupid to get offended
2.gif


"I am wondering where you got the idea that this stone is a 4A, and on which ''scale'' or ''system'' is this based?"

I was reading the forum here and came across posts from oldminer I then went to one of the web sites in his signature www.datlas.com and downloaded the "Diamond Cut Grader Tool". the result came as a 4A "Value Cut".
 
Without the crown height, that tool cannot give you a result. So, you probably entered some figure there, but where did you get that from?

And even if you used that system, it is not a cut-grading-system, it is at best a system to judge workmanship, at least that is how Dave Atlas (oldminer) described it here.

Personally, I even disagree with it being a workmanship-assessment-system, but that is off-topic.

Live long,
 
Date: 5/7/2010 8:23:01 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Hi Dummy (sorry, but when I welcome you in this way, it sounds wrong),

The problem is that GIA does not grade Cut on anything but round brilliants. In other words, there is no GIA cut-grade for princess-cuts. The fact that you found someone mentioning this stone as a GIA-Excellent only means that this person finds himself capable of slapping the word ''Excellent'' on a diamond, while combining it with GIA (as if it were an independent grade).

In reality, it means nothing.

Which does not mean that this particular stone has a bad or a good cut. There simply is not sufficient information to judge.

I am wondering where you got the idea that this stone is a 4A, and on which ''scale'' or ''system'' is this based?

Live long,
Click to expand...
Thats the main reason i had to have an AGS 0 rating on my princess!
 
I sent an email to my jeweler asking him for the crown height. Together with the infos from the GIA certificate, would you guys be able to make a better judgement of this diamond?

Thank you.
 
No way to tell even with a crown measurement.
 
Date: 5/7/2010 9:44:32 AM
Author: dummyforadiamond
I sent an email to my jeweler asking him for the crown height. Together with the infos from the GIA certificate, would you guys be able to make a better judgement of this diamond?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately not. What we need are images such as ASET, photos and a video if such things were possible from this jeweller to get a basic idea of the cut quality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top