Advice and Comments for the Grades and Proportions

[geOgre]

Hi all, I was going to purchase this diamond and was wondering if you thought it was worth the 11,500 it is listed for.
I plugged the angles into HCA and it comes to 2.4 very Good. I just want to get what I pay for or maybe a little more. I don't have any idealscope images.
Is there any ways to for you experts to comment on brilliance, fire, and scintillation based on the angles alone?

Thanks for your help.

Diamond Grading Report

Round Brilliant
Carat Weight 1.26 carat
Color Grade G
Clarity Grade Internally Flawless
Cut Grade Excellent

PROPORTIONS
Depth 62.2 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 35.0°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 41.0°
Pavilion Depth 43.5%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None

FINISH
Polish
Excellent
Symmetry
Excellent
Fluorescence None

Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown.

 

[Diamond2014]

Since you're putting alot of money down for the diamond, might as well find a perfect one. Consider 100 is perfect, this diamond you mentioned is more like an 85.

Crown Angle 35.0° will give you alot of fire but the Pavilion Angle 41.0°is not a good combination. Pavilion Angle 41.0°is usually nice with Crown Angle 32.0°which gives alot of brightness (somewhat good fire).

For me, I don't like the girdle, some weight are hidden in there that you paid for. Depth 62.2 % is somewhat too much for me, because carat is measurement of weight. And some of the weight are hidden in the girdle and since Depth is 62.2 % which mean some weight is in the downward stretched of the diamond, instead of the top diameter where it's more important.

Star Length 50% will give you some tiny triangle sparkles around the arrow shaft. There are two triangle reflectors around the arrow shaft, 50% suppose give you some of those but since the Lower Half 75% makes the arrow shaft bigger, it hides the tiny triangle reflectors.
Lower Half 75% will give you bigger arrow shaft so the sparkles are bigger size instead of needle size
In general, your combination of Star Length 50% and Lower Half 75% will give you big bold flashes instead of many tiny flashes.

Even though I love perfection, but Internally Flawless is wayyy too much for me. Many on this board are ok with SI1 and SI2 but for me I like at least VS1 and above. I think Internally Flawless is way too much. VVS2 and VVS1 are basically tiny tiny tiny pinpoints, if you like perfection just make sure these inclusions are not right under the table. Even if you get an Internally Flawless and think it's perfect, it's not. Under the microscope, they can still point out all the inclusions for you.

Don't worry about the comment in the GIA report "Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown.". Whenever it's Internally Flawless, it only mean in the middle of the diamond, it doesnt count the outside surface of the diamond. Whenever you see "Internally Flawless" on a GIA, they will always put "Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown."

 

[geOgre]

Thanks so much for your in depth analysis.
85% isn't so bad. I think I may get it.

 

[marymm]

It will likely be a Very Good stone... but not Excellent or Ideal.

With your budget, if it were me, I'd go with one of WhiteFlash's ACA diamonds (http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/search.aspx), particularly this one, which is *certain* to be a top performer: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3253506.htm#

If you do order the stone you posted about, please ensure there is a solid return/full refund policy and hopefully you can order it loose.

Honestly, with a healthy budget, why would you settle for Very Good? Even if IF clarity is your top priority, you should be able to find diamonds with similar color/clarity/carat weight with much better performance than "Very Good."

 

[geOgre]

I am posting a pic for your further analysis.
Is there anything you could tell me based on the picture alone?

 

[sarahb]

OP, I can't go into a technical dialogue as others have as I am not a prosumer. But will tell you this: the difference between an ideal & very good is very noticeable. We bought a GIA graded stone, Very Good, E VS1 many years ago. Thought we had all the boxes checked off. Years went by. Eventually got it recut ( [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/wf-re-cut.198734/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/wf-re-cut.198734/[/URL]) into an AGS 0--unbelievable comparison.

You must see an AGS Ideal to realize the difference, as a paper comparison is simply not adequate. Its the difference between night & day, as was our experience.

I spent years secretly wondering why my diamond just did not sparkle enough. So happy we went through with the recut.

I'll let the experts weigh in on the image you just posted.

 

[geOgre]

I am a rookie when it comes to diamonds. The rating on it is Triple Excellent.
Do you (other members of this forum) rank the holloway cut advisor score higher than the GIA rating?

Thank you all for your continued posts. I consider this educational.

 

[sarahb]

Holloway score is not a selection tool. It's meant to be a tool to get rid of the non-preformers. Anything over a 2 generally is to be excluded.

From this point forward, put Holloway on the shelf.

Next you begin to evaluate angles, measurements, asets, idealscope, etc. & compare/contrast your choices from this data set, not Holloway. Again, the experts can dialogue about specific measurements etc.

 

[sarahb]

Another thought.

With your budget, you're well within affordability of an AGS 0 Ideal. Why not just go there to begin with? It really DOES make a visual difference. Not trying to push or anything, but it will make a difference. All Im trying to say, is spend your budget once. Get the best your $ can afford & if you go with a company that has a trade-in program, all the better--you guys may want to get a different size/shape etc down the road.

 

[Diamond2014]

I wouldn't buy it if it was me. Doesn't matter if you're making 6 figures income or million dollars in your saving account. $11,500 is still alot of money. Why settle for less. Lets say yours is consider "Very Good". Go on YouTube and search for Very Good vs Ideal and see some of Good Old Gold videos, you'll see the difference.

 

[RockyRacoon]

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3253506.htm#

This is a much better choice.

 

[16ocean]

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3253506.htm#

This is a much better choice.

+1 it is lovely!

 

[geOgre]

This is a great forum. Thanks alot for all your advice and suggestions.
If you have more, I'm all ears.


Here's a another question which is a bit off topic and may deserve another thread:
If an online seller of diamonds had 10,000 triple excellent GIA rated diamonds, would they take the time to see which of them qualify as Hearts and Arrows / True Hearts / A cut Above ... you get my point. Thereby eliminating the "luck" factor in picking a GIA triple excellent that happened to be an unadvertised True Hearts diamond. If it is true that they do this, would they have a Idealscope image of all diamonds already and be available upon request.
Thanks.

 

[JulieN]

Is there any particular reason why you are spending 50% more for IF over regular eye-clean VS2/SI1?

 

[JulieN]

This is a great forum. Thanks alot for all your advice and suggestions.
If you have more, I'm all ears.


Here's a another question which is a bit off topic and may deserve another thread:
If an online seller of diamonds had 10,000 triple excellent GIA rated diamonds, would they take the time to see which of them qualify as Hearts and Arrows / True Hearts / A cut Above ... you get my point. Thereby eliminating the "luck" factor in picking a GIA triple excellent that happened to be an unadvertised True Hearts diamond. If it is true that they do this, would they have a Idealscope image of all diamonds already and be available upon request.
Thanks.

No. The ones that are advertised as H&A are cut specifically to those specifications.

 

[sarahb]

Each vender works a bit differently.

However, most online venders (due to the online business model) have all had to adapt in order to provide the tools necessary to help a consumer arrive at a decision--online, sight unseen A daunting task to the uninitiated to be sure--we've ALL been there. If you boil down your request, most will provide what you need in order to make a decision.

A core group of venders exist that have been vetted many times over for not only diamond performance, but customer satisfaction from start to transaction finish over & over again. You'll find a list of these venders here--go to the Gallery tab, then Venders. In-house gemologists are at each one for input, & they all have generous return policies if need arises.

To be sure I am following your question exactly--are you asking if they could drill down to 'the one' given your specifications?

 

[geOgre]

Is there any particular reason why you are spending 50% more for IF over regular eye-clean VS2/SI1?

I would say I am likely misplacing emphasis on the wrong C of the 4C's.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Since you're putting alot of money down for the diamond, might as well find a perfect one. Consider 100 is perfect, this diamond you mentioned is more like an 85. Crown Angle 35.0° will give you alot of fire but the Pavilion Angle 41.0°is not a good combination. Pavilion Angle 41.0°is usually nice with Crown Angle 32.0°which gives alot of brightness (somewhat good fire)

In reading this thread, and I’d note that no single number (like CA) dictates an optical result. Depending on table size, 41 pa with 32ca might produce a very shallow crown, or it might come close to producing a Tolkowksy height crown. There can be a lot of variance there. Stars and upper girdle facets tune things a bit further. I say all this to say, you must take all proportions together to make predictions. Not just “CA.”

More importantly, with GIA rounding taken into consideration, the diamond in the initial post could actually have proportions of 57, 40.9, 34.8 - or it could be 57, 41.1, 35.2. The photo provided helps a bit but without an IdealScope or ASET image no more can be deduced about performance.

In general, your combination of Star Length 50% and Lower Half 75% will give you big bold flashes instead of many tiny flashes

It depends on how well the diamond is cut. When cutting precision is asymmetrical (not 2d symmetry, but 3d) the internal reflections often get broken-up into smaller flashes regardless of the averaged data. From the image this doesn’t seem a problem. Again, IdealScope or ASET would tell us more.

Depth 62.2 % is somewhat too much for me, because carat is measurement of weight. And some of the weight are hidden in the girdle and since Depth is 62.2 % which mean some weight is in the downward stretched of the diamond, instead of the top diameter where it's more important.

Yes and no. While many people love to keep the depth of a MRB between 60 and 62, there are plenty of people (and many on this forum) that don’t mind depths a bit over 62 if the spread is good and it has top-notch light performance. As far as where the weight is positioned – the girdle diameter (spread) is certainly a consideration in diamond purchasing, but not necessarily “more important” than overall depth. If it spreads 5.6mm but, because of the cut, does not reflect light out to the edges it may appear smaller than a 5.5mm diamond of the same carat-weight that reflects light out to each edge. In a side-by-side comparison, then, even though the first diamond has less spread, and possibly higher depth, the second diamond appears larger and is probably more desirable. This is why the light performance indicators (IdealScope and ASET) are so important in gauging diamond appearance.

Don't worry about the comment in the GIA report "Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown.". Whenever it's Internally Flawless, it only mean in the middle of the diamond, it doesnt count the outside surface of the diamond. Whenever you see "Internally Flawless" on a GIA, they will always put "Comments: Minor details of polish are not shown."

Mostly correct. But some IF diamonds do not show that comment.