Advice about how to make a big decision

[firebirdgold]

My Fi was miserable doing his PhD despite the fact that he''d been doing research and writing papers for his job all along. There''s just something about getting your PhD that causes people to be miserable. After he finally finished his thesis, he now never wants to work in that field again! Even though he''s not going to be doing research in the same (or even close) area that he got his PhD in, he still needed it. There just happens to be a certain level of jobs that requires a PhD, any PhD sometimes.

At this point I''d suggest trying to stick it out. Maybe talk to your advisor and see if there''s something, anything you could do to speed things up?

Have you considered talking to a psych? It seems to be very common for people to get a bit depressed midway through the process. My sister did and she''s now an ABD. I think that''s why there are so many people who are ABD. A little pharmaceutical help like wellbutrin might just make phd hell a little easier to deal with.

Good Luck!

 

[kcoursolle]

First off, sorry you are sick. I''m afraid I haven''t read all of the posts, but I can really relate to your situation so I thought I would share part of my story.

I am currently working on my PhD in a social science field. Back when I was an undergrad I started out as an engineering major. One day it just clicked inside of me that I was miserable, and that I was just going through the motions of my classes and lab work, and that I really didn''t enjoy them at all! I decided to switch to a social science field and now I am in the middle of my PhD in that field.

During my first year, I was depressed most of the time. Grad school was more difficult than I thought, professors were unapproachable, my research wasn''t taking off, classes were unrewarding, you get the idea. However, after having a few talks with other grad students I discovered that I wasn''t alone and that almost everyone I know had these feelings at some point...and this along with the extreme difficulty might explain why the average PhD program has a dropout rate of 75%.

I ended up staying because of a few reasons: I enjoyed the subject and had a passion for it, I really didn''t know exactly what I wanted to do, I had a lot of work options with a PhD, and because I wanted to see if things got better. Things did get better...but that doesn''t mean I''m not still miserable quite frequently...lets face it, getting a PhD is not pretty or fun. I still doubt my decision to stay sometimes, but I''m positive I will end up completing my PhD. One thing that helped me was focusing on the other things in my life that also contributed to my miserable state. I don''t know if this is the case with you, but there might be other things besides school that are making you depressed and seeing a therapist would be a way to shed light on this. If this is the case and you can improve the other things that are making you depressed, this might also clarify how you feel about your current situation in school.

I think eventuall you will *know* if you need to leave graduate school. When I decided to leave engineering as an undergrad the decision was clear and the situation didn''t feel the same as the continued miserable state and system of doubts that I continue to suffer from getting my PhD.




eek, I just read over this post and it sounds really cynical...sorry about that.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Indie and kcoursolle - thank you for the additional contributions. I think you both sort of summed up what my feelings are at this point overall, which I''ve sort of realized by reading this thread. Basically, that I''m miserable but I''m not sure its enough to quit (how''s that for cynical?!?!! LOL) knowing all the options that sticking it out and getting my degree would bring me.

I do appreciate both of your suggestions re: seeing a counselor. I was actually doing that in the first part of this year, and it was helpful but in talking to him I basically arrived at the same place that it sounds like many people get to - that there is just a certain amount of misery involved in getting your PhD. He did say that I was probably taking it especially hard because I didn''t have as much research (read: frustration) experience going in, so the extremely slow progress is more of a shock to the system for me than for some others. Also because I''ve had a lot of things come easily to me academically that its kind of hard for this not to, and not feeling like a "star" like I did during a lot of college and definitely during high school is really tough for me - that I can watch other people doing a lot better than I am (who me, competitive...) but there''s nothing I can do about it really to try to do better in my project because of the way biology and graduate school works. The counselor was the one who encouraged me to tell my advisor about how I was feeling, and overall I''m glad I did, although it was really embarrassing to cry in front of him, as I''m not at all a crying sort of person, especially in front of people I''m not super close to (I''ve never cried in front of a single one of my college friends, and only a handful of times in front of my best friend who I''ve known since age 12). He was (of course) incredibly nice and supportive about it, and when I asked him if he was disappointed in me he said he would have been disappointed if I hadn''t told him (which of course made me cry more...yeah it was kind of a soap opera meeting...). He actually didn''t have a problem with the idea of me leaving and said he thought there would be opportunities for me in biotech (he has a lot of connections so he could probably help with that).

Anyway, that''s getting pretty far off topic. I really just meant to thank both of you for contributing - if nothing else its incredibly comforting to know that I''m not the only one who feels this way and would describe themself as "miserable" during a graduate school experience. I kind of feel like a freak when I watch the other people in my lab who seem to really enjoy the day-to-day process of lab work going about their business, and so its really good to know that even if I''m not close enough with any of them to talk about chances are at least one of them feels the same way I do, and even if they don''t there are lots of people who do.

 

[firebirdgold]

It really is just Grad school. Please don''t think that just because you''re miserable right now, that you''ll be miserable doing more or less the exact same thing in real life.
My fi is doing basically the same thing as he did for his PhD, i.e. research and writing papers (he''s working on a book in his spare time too), but he really loves his work. (Granted he hates his job but that''s because the company is circling the drain and everyone is bailing)

 

[lovelylulu]

hey amber! I'm a little late to the thread and like some others didn't really read very carefully through all the posts, so i'm sorry if this is redundant.

i have a BS in biology from a great undergrad. originally, i thought that I wanted to get my PhD as well. as an undergrad, i worked one summer in a lab and all during my last year. however, when january rolled around, i still didn't know exactly what KIND of a program i wanted to apply to but, I did know that a 5-7 year commitment was something i didn't want to make without being sure. I decided to postpone applying and worked for another year in the lab. my thought process was that i'm still getting great experience (i had a nice independent research project going on pretty much like a PhD student) and it would give me the time to figure things out. Well as the year progressed and i read the umpteenth scientific paper, etc., i figured out that i wasn't cut out for bench work. i could never find something to hone in on that would keep me interested for years to come. Everything seemed so utterly specific. Also, as a person, I wanted a career that was a bit more social. I felt fairly isolated during my time in the lab. Grant writing was contantly looming. Plus, i didn't expect just how political it can be.

I guess my best advice to you would be stay where you are now, but use the time to better try to figure out exactly what you want your career to be. I wouldn't quit the program without knowing at least what field you were going to move into. you might realize that a masters isn't going to cut it or you might realize that you don't need a PhD at all. but, you don't want to regret losing all the hard work and time you've already put in.

also, i know that you mentioned not having a great interest in patent law, but if that were to change, most firms are looking for PhDs in a hard science such as physics and chemistry...

Good luck!!!! and feel better.

 

[Jenjen]

JenJen - thank you for contributing, I really appreciate you speaking out about your experience. I'd be really interested, if you wouldn't mind sharing, to hear more about what you do know and whether you think a PhD is essential for what you do or for what you want to do. It sounds like you have pretty mixed feelings about having made the decision to finish the degree. I often wonder if that's how I'll end up feeling if I do stick it out, and I think I would be pretty unhappy if I did, considering how much work it is.
!

After I finished my PhD last year, I just wanted to work in a lab and do something really mundane to sort of reset (I still enjoy lab work for the most part)...I was not interested in an academic post-doc. No grant writing, no politics, no nothing. I applied and interviewed for several industry positions in Raleigh, but surprise I was overqualified. UGH. So I was a few weeks from graduating, when I just started sending out CVs like crazy, and I sent one to NIH for a post-doc position. It was in a different field (still biology, but really a 180), and I figured at least I could learn some new techniques...besides, I really needed a paycheck.

Long story short, for the past year I have been working in a lab at NIH and I really love it. The projects are pretty cool, and I love my boss and my colleagues, and the research environment is awesome. All that crap I went through in grad school is slowly becoming a distant memory. That being said....I could probably have a similar job I have now as a tech with a master's degree. But I couldn't advance or have as much opportunity in the future. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do after this post-doc is over, but I'll just play it by ear.
What I learned through this experience is that for me, I could probably be happy doing any kind of bio research. It's the work environment and the people that I'm surrounded and supported by that matter most to my happiness in my job. So yes, one year out, it was worth it to continue, but man is it hard to look ahead when you're stuck smack in the middle of it.

also, I'm dang proud of my dissertation, but I would be happy to never see it again as long as I live!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Indie - that''s good to know that your FI is happy doing lab work now that he''s not in grad school.

Lulu - thank you for sharing your experience, and I think you''re probably right about not leaving what I''m doing until i know what else I want to do. If only that were easier to figure out!!

Jenjen - thanks so much for the additional information about your path. Its so funny, the postdoc at the NIH is exactly what a good friend of mine who graduated out of my lab but had no idea what she wanted to do with her life ended up doing as well. So you''re definitely not alone! But its good that it has brought you more clarity.