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Adolescent Humor?

Rockdiamond

Rockdiamond

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jan 7, 2009
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Question for the parents out there....
How to navigate the world, given that a lot of things I used to joke about when I was a kid are totally out of bounds.
We used to denigrate different nationalities and make jokes about it.....it was common.
Thinking about it today, it's kind of horrifying.
As an example: Polish people can be-and many are- extremely smart. You wouldn't have known that in my hood growing up..
Anyway, part of my dilemma is that 12 year old boys are built to enjoy and re-tell this sort of ...offensive humor.
I think it's part of the passage into teen years- and adulthood.
So, it's probably not realistic to tell a kid- don't tell offensive jokes.
But today, a "bad" joke can get a kid kicked out of school!

Tick-tok makes this whole situation even more difficult....
How do you guys cope, or handle this sort of deal......
 
have you watched the netflex animated series Big Mouth
its pretty spot on
 
Rockdiamond said:
OMG- it's horrendous!! And it's made to look like a kid's show...insidious and representative of the issue.
Click to expand...

i love Connie
but the series humour overall is so teenage boy5c28206589188bd3fdf7b6ad3ccb8a12.jpg
 
@Rockdiamond
As a mother to only girls - I would be interested to hear what you think they are “built to enjoy” and what‘s their “passage”.

lucky you. Down the road, you can fall back on the “boys will be boys” excuse.

is this a joke?

yes. Blame tik-tok. :roll2:

signed
a 50/50 Polish Italian.
have fun

edited to add:
you originally state what you used to do was kind of horrifying.
then as your post progresses, it just doesn’t read like you truly believe that. It doesn’t read like you agree school administrators should have consequences for students.......
Where would it stop if nationality jokes were deemed as ‘ok’? It’s a slippery slope.

Big Mouth is rated ‘TV-MA’ for anyone interested.
I do believe kids tend to take their parents/guardians outlook on these types of things more to heart when discussed, than what we think they do. Kids having access to media like tictok and BigMouth with no discussion with their parents/guardians on the topics is a different matter. Prohibiting and pretending it doesn’t exist is a different matter.
 
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Boys don't have some innate compulsion to tell racist/xenophobic/misogynistic jokes, and acting like it's an unstoppable force or even a rite of passage is disturbing. Expect more. It is very realistic to tell your kid to not say racist things.
 
kids these days are potty mouths.
I would have eaten soap for far less.
No I will amend that, people are potty mouths these days.
 
In my experience with 2 teen boys the old style “boys will be boys” type of humour and behaviour is not the same as when I was growing up (I’m 54, not sure how old you are, @Rockdiamond ?). Maybe in certain cliques, like rugby lads all together after a match, but certainly not in the general groups of friends. Everything is a lot more PC and pro-tolerance in schools now (certainly here in the U.K.). The girls are a lot more forthright too and have higher expectations of how they are treated and how boys should behave. I’d be very careful what you joke about!
 
Children learn by example, there’s no “innate” definition of humor. What they find funny they’ll learn through family, friends, and local culture. If you’re raising them in a place where being offensive is considered “cool” then hopefully you started early with clear, consistent, and heartfelt messaging that that is not ok.

If you hear it or see it, make clear why it’s not funny. I don’t mean yell or a quick “cut that out”, I mean explain why it’s hurtful and make understanding the perspective of the hurt a priority. Misogynistic jokes against women? Read some blogs together written by women relating some of their experiences and why this kind of humor hurts them. Racist jokes? Listen to How to be an antiracist in the car. Got detention in trouble in school for “making a joke”? Good, don’t dismiss it or excuse it or accuse the school of over reacting. Impress upon them that this is an important part of being a good person and not just about not getting in trouble.

Yes, teens often want to rebel and test limits, but they don’t want to be a bad person or be seen as one. If enough people around them consistently tell them that dehumanizing other people is mean spirited and not funny, they’ll stop because it won’t be “edgy”, it’ll just make them feel uncomfortable. They’ll find another way to rebel that’s “cooler”. And with any luck they will make “good trouble”.

I will add, if you feel like your kid is making derogatory statements against others out of anger, that’s a different problem altogether.

Edit to add: I actually liked season one of Big Mouth. I think the humor is raunchy obviously but 1) I don’t think its target audience is tweens and children despite being animated and 2) I don’t think it really glorified jokes made at other people’s expense without also including messaging that that is hurtful. If anything I think it’s trying to lampoon a lot of what would be considered “toxic masculinity”
 
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Anyway, part of my dilemma is that 12 year old boys are built to enjoy and re-tell this sort of ...offensive humor.
I think it's part of the passage into teen years- and adulthood.
So, it's probably not realistic to tell a kid- don't tell offensive jokes.

What exactly is your dilemma? I am assuming from your post that you have a 12 YO son.

Are you having issues with him getting into trouble at school for saying something offensive? If this is the case--you have an issue that you need to handle with your son. Sorry to be so blunt.

I am probably considerably older than you, but I know that no matter what was commonplace 40 years ago, making fun/bullying someone over ethnicity, race, disabilities, gender, or sexual orientation is wrong. It simply should not be tolerated.

Anyone who works at an employer with HR will know via workplace training that this type of 'humor' is not tolerated. Schools also make this very clear. I would assume that most parents also teach their kids that type of behavior will lead to consequences at school and in the workplace.

Being racist, misogynistic, or making fun of ethnicity is absolutely not part of any passage into teen or adult years. And it is most certainly not 'built in' to 12 year old boys.
It is behavior that should not be tolerated, or blamed on Tik-Tok.
I was raising 12 YO 20 years ago---and this type of humor was not tolerated then. Schools were quite clear on expectations and we had multi-cultural schools and my kids had friends of all ethnicities.

That being said, 12 YO do not always have good judgment and can be very susceptible to peer pressure. They can do foolish things, But I personally would not hand them a hall pass for making fun of people based on ethnicity or race or gender.
 
My apologies-I guess my post was poorly worded.....
“built to enjoy”.... or boys will be boys ....not the right way to express my thought.
I think it’s natural for a larger percentage of boys to like to roughhouse compared to the girls of their age group.
I also have a grown daughter. I noticed so many differences in typical behaviors between boys and girls that other parents have also noticed.
Sure, this is stereotypical- but it is based on reality.
I don’t encourage the stereotypes- it’s important to let kids act naturally. So I don’t encourage “boys will be boys” but I notice it.
I’m not excusing bad behavior in any way. But at the same time we need to be realistic.
I would never give my kid a pass for racist or xenophobic statements - ever. Nor would I stand for bullying. A joke is not funny if it’s made at someone’s expense.
We have long conversations about this stuff.

But it’s not only racist and xenophobic stuff that’s the issue.
I did get a call from the principal a few weeks back. During an argument outside the school my kid dropped the f bomb.
Is it realistic to tell kids they can’t curse outside school?
My point is that things that were acceptable when I was growing up are totally out of bounds today.
Combined with natural tendencies of tweens....it’s really a minefield.
 
Rockdiamond said:
My apologies-I guess my post was poorly worded.....
“built to enjoy”.... or boys will be boys ....not the right way to express my thought.
I think it’s natural for a larger percentage of boys to like to roughhouse compared to the girls of their age group.
I also have a grown daughter. I noticed so many differences in typical behaviors between boys and girls that other parents have also noticed.
Sure, this is stereotypical- but it is based on reality.
I don’t encourage the stereotypes- it’s important to let kids act naturally. So I don’t encourage “boys will be boys” but I notice it.
I’m not excusing bad behavior in any way. But at the same time we need to be realistic.
I would never give my kid a pass for racist or xenophobic statements - ever. Nor would I stand for bullying. A joke is not funny if it’s made at someone’s expense.
We have long conversations about this stuff.

But it’s not only racist and xenophobic stuff that’s the issue.
I did get a call from the principal a few weeks back. During an argument outside the school my kid dropped the f bomb.
Is it realistic to tell kids they can’t curse outside school?
My point is that things that were acceptable when I was growing up are totally out of bounds today.
Combined with natural tendencies of tweens....it’s really a minefield.
Click to expand...

how old is Master F bomb if i may ask please ?
 
When I was a tween, if the principal called your parent because they heard you say "F***," that was not considered your right since you were outside the school, that was considered you were going to get a butt whipping as soon as your parent got off the phone.
 
I don’t think your second post is worded any differently than your first, really, RockDiamond.

That’s ok though.
We are allowed to view things differently.

Good luck.
 
As a high school teacher—I hear what you are saying @Rockdiamond. I overhear kids berate each other, use nicknames to bully each other and in their minds—it’s just a way of fitting in, etc... Rap music that makes it acceptable to usemisogynistic terms—heck—there was even a thread on WAP here not too long ago that some posters were celebrating—so yes—the problem is alive and well and perpetuated by our society. Blame parents, soc media, music, movies, video games. Like you, I do the best I can in educating my students. But I know when they walk out of my classroom, many will forget what I said to fit in—with other teens. It starts at home but not every parents cares enough to raise a gentleman or a lady or a person with good values, for that matter.
 
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I make it extremely clear that there will be no F bombs at home, in public, not anywhere. Behavoiral teaching starts at home.
 
I remember the days when I was shocked at the music my teenage son listened to and some of his ideas and words. I think I overreacted to some of it. He is now a very responsible, hard working husband and father.

Even with the best parenting kids are going to make mistakes, and we will not always be around to protect them from themselves. They just need to realize that with camera phones everywhere, a moment of bad behavior can be put up on the Internet and immortalized. I think it is very important to remind them of this.
 
I should add that sometimes parents can raise their children in the most PC way but of course, kids don’t always turn out the way their parents raised them.
 
I think all teens try out different kinds of behaviors until they find the behaviors that become a part of their personalities. By positive peer pressure, the negative behaviors usually weed themselves out, depending on the company they keep.

Some people never rid themselves of the negative behaviors and they grow up to be crappy adults.

Unfortunately (as my teen tells me) the opinion of peers are far more potent than the opinion of parents. What I have noticed though is that this generation is far less tolerant of racist, sexist, xenophobic behavior. They are far more accepting of the differences that make others beautiful and unique.

My 15 year old has a wicked sense of humor. Some of it I like and some of it I don’t . I let him know when I don’t. He already knows when something he’s said is inappropriate. I think he’s testing boundaries. Another lovely teen behavior.

I believe where this starts at home is with parents leading by example.
 
Are we going to clutch our pearls at a 12 year old dropping the F-word?

Give me a break!
 
Rfisher said:
I don’t think your second post is worded any differently than your first, really, RockDiamond.
Click to expand...

Rfisher- if you found my words were offensive, please accept my apology.

Daisys and Diamonds said:
how old is Master F bomb if i may ask please ?
Click to expand...

Little Mister "F" is 12.....
I should add that in our house, it's possible to hear that word from time to time. Although we try not to.....

LisaRN said:
I think I overreacted to some of it.
Click to expand...

Bingo!!
I think that if a parent really gets angry, freaks out, or otherwise overreacts, we lose our ability to communicate with the kid effectively.
SO when he shows me a tick toc that makes me want to puke, I temper my reaction.

One of the things living for the past 21 years online has taught me is that your words are basically the only thing that sticks. They can be repeated, ad infinium.
So it's critically important to use extreme care with your words.
House cat hit the nail on the head- we need to lead by example.....
 
Personally I think actions can mean more than words. If you tell kids one thing and then behave in ways counter to that, they’ll basically roll their eyes at your hypocrisy and ignore it.

This is why I don’t pick a fight about cuss words with teens. I cuss and im not going to tell them not that “it’s bad”. That being said I never cuss AT someone, I only use it descriptively to express degree of discontent haha. And I make it clear that while I don’t find it inherently bad, there’s a time and place for it related to respecting other people.

Kids hear and see more than parents give credit for. Are you blaming your coworkers or the boss for being unhappy at work and then telling your teen to work harder at homework? Don’t be surprised if they blame teachers or classmates when it doesn’t get done. It’s not a fair comparison but as far as kids see it, that’s how a problem gets processed. How often do they see you modeling the processes of reflection, emotional regulation, self improvement, problem solving, empathy etc that you want them to internalize? Even if you are leading by example through your choices, it helps to do it “out loud” and label it so kids can learn from it casually on a regular basis. Ie: “Ugh, I don’t want to go to the dentist, it’s so uncomfortable, but teeth need to get cleaned so I’m gonna listen to my podcast and take deep breaths”. Instead of just going because you know you need to. Or “I hate doing laundry so I’m going to get started on that first and get it out of the way”. Feels weird to narrate out loud but for younger kids it can be great teaching if you have the energy for it.

And yes, for many teens their friends reactions will matter more than parents in many things BUT parents do have a 10 year or so head start where you’re the center of the universe and assuming healthy attachments and largely neurotypical kids, that still means a lot. And hopefully it results in limit testing that might be annoying or against your personal tastes, but doesn’t put anyone in danger or cause anyone to get hurt.
 
Karl_K said:
kids these days are potty mouths.
I would have eaten soap for far less.
No I will amend that, people are potty mouths these days.
Click to expand...

Ha, +1 for eating soap. My dad was the gentlest, most loving man who was smart and thoughtful and never had a temper. We moved to Selma Alabama when I was about seven. On the way there he told us kids that there were bad words used in Selma...and if he EVER caught us saying the "N" word we would eat soap. This was 1972.

I mean...pottymouth and an occasional cuss word was okay, but I remembered my family did not use that word. I guess my Mom and Dad really made that an important thing. They didn't have too many serious conversations like that. It was important.
 
House Cat said:
Are we going to clutch our pearls at a 12 year old dropping the F-word?

Give me a break!
Click to expand...
So much this.

"You're such a F***ing loser".
"No girl will ever date you. You smell bad, your teeth are crooked, you're fat, and you're always picked last in gym class. Everyone thinks you're useless".
One of those statements has legitimate potential to harm.

@Rockdiamond I think you're a fantastic dad - to both your girl and your boy. The fact that you care enough to think about these sorts of issues says a lot.

Everything in context... I drop F bombs daily, at work, in front of customers, and it wouldn't occur to anyone to take objection. If I was a pediatrician - well, that's a pretty different context. Kids suck at identifying context, and saying "no, never ever ever ever" just ensures that they won't learn to until they're away from your supervision - environments wherein consequences might be needlessly severe.
 
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Yes, I clutch my pearls. I don't swear, nobody in the family swears and I'm glad that I no longer hear F-bombs at my new workplace (before WFM started).
 
When it comes to cuss words I always taught my kids there is a time and a place for everything. That they should save cuss words for impact.


For example, saying a cuss word when you drop something on your foot was perfectly acceptable in my household. Calling someone a cuss word was not unless they really, really deserved it. And we never cussed each other.
 
I'm so appreciative of this discussion- thank you all!
My kids - I am the super lucky dad of Lauren, 32, Little Mr "F" ( 12yo) and his little bro- who is 10.
The first time divorce and my own lack of ....parenting skills ( apparent to me now) made it much more difficult on all of us. Divorce sucks.

So now, I view this as the greatest gift- and opportunity for personal growth too.
As an example ( and I am so sorry Chrono) when I used to drop something, I'd curse. Oh $hit. ( I wrote this as @LisaRN was posting)
Now I am conscious of it and I say "oh shoot"...maybe about 40% of the time:)

I will agree that kids today- on the positive side- are far more aware of how hurtful racism and toxic masculinity are.
In part, I think that's the dilemma.
I still maintain there's some "nature" ( vs nurture) involved in adolescent male behavior.
Part of him knows that a ticktok about "your name spelled backward is how you die which is horrible for someone named Lana" is crude and disgusting. But that won't stop him from sharing it with his buddies. It probably spurs him on to sharing it

And if I react in horror, he'll just stop showing me.

@yssie :wavey: your words mean a lot to me..thank you.
 
Rockdiamond said:
I'm so appreciative of this discussion- thank you all!
My kids - I am the super lucky dad of Lauren, 32, Little Mr "F" ( 12yo) and his little bro- who is 10.
The first time divorce and my own lack of ....parenting skills ( apparent to me now) made it much more difficult on all of us. Divorce sucks.

So now, I view this as the greatest gift- and opportunity for personal growth too.
As an example ( and I am so sorry Chrono) when I used to drop something, I'd curse. Oh $hit. ( I wrote this as @LisaRN was posting)
Now I am conscious of it and I say "oh shoot"...maybe about 40% of the time:)

I will agree that kids today- on the positive side- are far more aware of how hurtful racism and toxic masculinity are.
In part, I think that's the dilemma.
I still maintain there's some "nature" ( vs nurture) involved in adolescent male behavior.
Part of him knows that a ticktok about "your name spelled backward is how you die which is horrible for someone named Lana" is crude and disgusting. But that won't stop him from sharing it with his buddies. It probably spurs him on to sharing it

And if I react in horror, he'll just stop showing me.

@yssie :wavey: your words mean a lot to me..thank you.
Click to expand...

The best thing about raising kids that is you try, and do your best, and give them love, they will be gracious about how imperfect you are. And if you show them that sometimes you're not perfect, but you try to be an honorable and good human...they'll find their way too. Maybe just telling them you are struggling to know how to tell them that sometimes innocent things can be hurtful. They will listen.

It amazes me to this day that the two grown people that are my children managed to turn out okay even though I am their Mom.
 
JMHO but the issue here is he broke a school rule, he was caught, and he deserves the consequence, because that is how they learn.

I would back the principal up, not engage in little legalistic loopholes or philosophical meanderings that allow him to do whatever he wants and manipulate the adults in charge instead.

He ran his mouth in the wrong way in front of the wrong person. Whether he did it inside or outside of the building doesn't matter. If he's shielded from learning those basic lessons now, he'll learn them later when the consequences are harsher.
 
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Rockdiamond said:
We used to denigrate different nationalities and make jokes about it.....it was common.
Thinking about it today, it's kind of horrifying.
Click to expand...

Easy! We denigrate our own -- plenty of material!

I also think it's important to distinguish between practicing actual kindness and promoting equal treatment of all groups/identities vs. being super-careful about what you say. Within our family, we are much more attentive to the former. Outside the family, we are careful about the second one, too.
 
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