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Additional inclusions NOT shown???

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Rough_Rock
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Feb 24, 2007
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Hi, I was wondering what GIA mean when they say additional twinning wisps not shown on their plotting diagrams. Why WOULDN''T they plot all the inclusions they can see? Is it a bad sign of the diamond having more inclusions than I think or is it that the additional ones are so minute that it isn''t worth plotting? or the reverse, that there are so many of them that if they plotted it, it would make the diamond look bad in the cert? I''m confused! Assuming it''s a VS2 diamond.

Any thoughts?
 

ebonykawai

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
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235
I''ve always wondered about this, too. It will be interesting to see the answers!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Often the reason is this - as twinning wisps, some clouds etc are a non issue, they aren't plotted as it would be complicated and wouldn't serve much of a purpose to detail them on the plot of the grading report, they are often mentioned for the sake of completeness in the comments section. Especially no worries in a VS diamond.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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By a non issue I meant that they aren't setting the grade for the clarity like a feather, crystal etc, especially with a high clarity such as VS, they are mentioned for the sake of thoroughness. Adding them to the plot would make it look messy and complicated and as they aren't an issue where the clarity grade is concerned, they are mentioned but not detailed, so no worries! This can be off putting for the buyer if they were added and could be confusing, so it seems for now this is the best way by the grading labs.

I don't think my pal Sir John would mind me copying this old post of his, he does put things well! This should answer you best!



JohnQuixote

Twinning wisps result from crystal distortion during growth. They're flat or ribbon-like cloudy areas, often radiating out from the diamond's center. Surface Graining is diamond structural irregularity which you could see with a microscope. Neither hurts the diamond's value and a GIA VS2 is a very safe grade, even if it has a more significant inclusion - such as a feather.


Many times a diamond grading report will list things as 'not shown.' The diamond's report is just noting that these things exist for sake of thoroughness. The characteristics which are 'not shown' are non-issues.


As an aside - though we call diamonds without visible inclusions 'flawless' we don't usually call clarity characteristics 'defects' (in the trade anyway). Mother nature was responsible and some people consider inclusions and blemishes natural 'fingerprints' which make their diamond special.


John


__________________________


John Pollard
Director of Consumer Education

 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
basically, they are not significant enough to change the clarity grade but are mentioned as a ''cya''
as in, ''yes, we know they are there but they are not worth plotting''
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
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5,212
Date: 3/15/2007 9:11:28 AM
Author: Lorelei


By a non issue I meant that they aren't setting the grade for the clarity like a feather, crystal etc, especially with a high clarity such as VS, they are mentioned for the sake of thoroughness. Adding them to the plot would make it look messy and complicated and as they aren't an issue where the clarity grade is concerned, they are mentioned but not detailed, so no worries! This can be off putting for the buyer if they were added and could be confusing, so it seems for now this is the best way by the grading labs.

I don't think my pal Sir John would mind me copying this old post of his, he does put things well! This should answer you best!


JohnQuixote

Twinning wisps result from crystal distortion during growth. They're flat or ribbon-like cloudy areas, often radiating out from the diamond's center. Surface Graining is diamond structural irregularity which you could see with a microscope. Neither hurts the diamond's value and a GIA VS2 is a very safe grade, even if it has a more significant inclusion - such as a feather.

Many times a diamond grading report will list things as 'not shown.' The diamond's report is just noting that these things exist for sake of thoroughness. The characteristics which are 'not shown' are non-issues.

As an aside - though we call diamonds without visible inclusions 'flawless' we don't usually call clarity characteristics 'defects' (in the trade anyway). Mother nature was responsible and some people consider inclusions and blemishes natural 'fingerprints' which make their diamond special.

John
Lorelei and Belle summarized this nicely. There are several clarity characteristics treated in this manner, including twinning wisps, surface graining, pinpoints, clouds... Not drawing them is standard procedure and nothing to worry about when looking at reports from strong labs.

For example, pinpoints are miniscule spots internal to a diamond. A cloud is a cluster of pinpoints. Sometimes to draw them would make them appear far more intense than they actually are. "Not shown" means the characteristic was taken into consideration when assigning the grade but keeps the impression in perspective.

The one caution I'd give is when a diamond is graded SI2 based only on a cloud, or collection of clouds (this can interfere with its optical performance). I'd hope this would be made obvious on the plot, but it's a wise practice to understand what the "grade setting inclusion" is in such a case.
 

Modified Brilliant

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,481
Date: 3/15/2007 11:05:50 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 3/15/2007 9:11:28 AM
Author: Lorelei



By a non issue I meant that they aren''t setting the grade for the clarity like a feather, crystal etc, especially with a high clarity such as VS, they are mentioned for the sake of thoroughness. Adding them to the plot would make it look messy and complicated and as they aren''t an issue where the clarity grade is concerned, they are mentioned but not detailed, so no worries! This can be off putting for the buyer if they were added and could be confusing, so it seems for now this is the best way by the grading labs.

I don''t think my pal Sir John would mind me copying this old post of his, he does put things well! This should answer you best!


JohnQuixote


Twinning wisps result from crystal distortion during growth. They''re flat or ribbon-like cloudy areas, often radiating out from the diamond''s center. Surface Graining is diamond structural irregularity which you could see with a microscope. Neither hurts the diamond''s value and a GIA VS2 is a very safe grade, even if it has a more significant inclusion - such as a feather.

Many times a diamond grading report will list things as ''not shown.'' The diamond''s report is just noting that these things exist for sake of thoroughness. The characteristics which are ''not shown'' are non-issues.

As an aside - though we call diamonds without visible inclusions ''flawless'' we don''t usually call clarity characteristics ''defects'' (in the trade anyway). Mother nature was responsible and some people consider inclusions and blemishes natural ''fingerprints'' which make their diamond special.

John
Lorelei and Belle summarized this nicely. There are several clarity characteristics treated in this manner, including twinning wisps, surface graining, pinpoints, clouds... Not drawing them is standard procedure and nothing to worry about when looking at reports from strong labs.

For example, pinpoints are miniscule spots internal to a diamond. A cloud is a cluster of pinpoints. Sometimes to draw them would make them appear far more intense than they actually are. ''Not shown'' means the characteristic was taken into consideration when assigning the grade but keeps the impression in perspective.

The one caution I''d give is when a diamond is graded SI2 based only on a cloud, or collection of clouds (this can interfere with its optical performance). I''d hope this would be made obvious on the plot, but it''s a wise practice to understand what the ''grade setting inclusion'' is in such a case.
And this is important, as John stated, "when looking at reports from strong labs." I''ve seen a couple of "independent liberal labs grade diamonds SI3 or I1, mentioning twinning wisps, while showing a 100% clean diamond plot (diagram). It''s misleading. The wisps were intense and should have been plotted.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 

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Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
62
All the H&A talk in the other forum is getting me thinking if my stone will show any potential. Couldn''t get any scope views of my diamond from the vendor but these are some close up shots. What do you think of this GIA ex polish, ex symmetry, ex cut, 2.2 ct, D, med fluoro RB GIA diamond. HCA 2.2. Any potential to exhibit a H&A pattern?

DSCN6127.jpg
 
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