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Accurate price to product? Measurments... (new member)

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Taipan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
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5
Hello Folks,

To begin, I''ll offer a brief introduction: I''m currently shopping for an e-ring. My g/f (unaware of the process) is fond of the princess cut. It will be set in an antique setting from a local commercial shop (Hannoush).

I''m asking for the number junkies to give some third party insight about the potential purchase. What stands out about this diamond, good and bad?

Here are the numbers from the E.G.L Diamond Certificate:

Weight: .70 CT

Shape and cut: PRINCESS

Measurements: 4.68 x 4.56 x 3.69 mm

Depth: 80.9%

Table: 75%

Crown: 11.6%

Pavilion: 61.2%

Girdle: Thick to Ex. Thick Polished

Culet: None

Polish: Good

Symetry: Good

Clarity Grade: VS2

Color Grade: D

Flourescense: None

The girdle is inscribed and I have viewed it under the microscope (I wish I could write that stealthy
).

My Cost: $3,300 (but retail is claimed to be 8250)

The initial search for a diamond with Hannoush sent up some red flags. I am looking for a ~.7-.71 CT princess. In fairness, I said clarity was not as much of a deciding factor as color. The gentlmen I have been working with was able to pull a .71 F SI2. It''s a pretty diamond, but dead in terms of sparkle compared to the posted certificate diamond. I asked if it was certified, "No, that will cost $200-300." I said that was fine. I was suspect of the color and said I''d prefer to have it sent out to a certifier to ensure a third party opinion on it. Then he began to search for one in his case that had a cert. That''s when I was introduced to the diamond I''ve posted here. The previous diamond was $2,150 and this current one I am about to pay for is $3,300. I''m comfortable with the cost adjustment and finances are set to pay up front.

Am I wrong to expect/demand a certification? And how does this posted diamond look in terms of the numbers folks? What stands out about it?

I appreciate the readers time.

I''m off to browse this forum and gain more information.

Admin: if this is in the wrong forum feel free to move it.

Thank you!
 

raz91

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
37
All diamonds should come with a certificate, preferably from either AGS or GIA. EGL certified diamonds are not held in high regard in this forum. There should not be any "extra" charge.

I started this discussion on how to buy a diamond with PS.
 

Taipan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
5

Thank you for the lightning quick reply Raz. I was not aware that the EGL ratings were lesser in quality. That''s good to note. I understand certs are someone’s opinion and can vary amongst companies.


Will the proportion measurements on a certification vary amongst certifiers? My logic is, an inch is an inch and a mm is a mm. Is this a false assumption?


I''m 100% comfortable with the color rating and clarity. The diamond is very colorless compared to the "F" color I initially looked at (although I was suspicious of the F color uncertified stones true color). I have briefly looked at the D color stone under a 100x and I do see some inclusions but they''re more like tiny pin pricks (if that makes sense). In other words, I am satisfied with the VS1 rating from what I have seen thus far.


I''m still curious if the qualities of the measurements (table, depth, crown, pav, and girdle) properly correlate to the cost of this diamond. I understand markets and sellers vary. I''d like to ensure no one experienced with these numbers is thinking, "He''s being taken..."



I''d also like to say thank you Raz for pointing me in the direction of your New Buyers guide. I feel more confident in the course I have been taking. Your pose was reassuring. I have also learned new approaches that I will have to take as my purchasing experience progresses.

 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,543
Date: 4/4/2009 9:30:08 PM
Author:Taipan
Hello Folks,

My Cost: $3,300 (but retail is claimed to be 8250)

Thank you!
Taipan
if he can get $8250 for this stone then he ain''t gonna sell it to you for $3300
are you dealing with a Asian Jeweler? if yes, he wants cash?
 

Taipan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
5
Date: 4/4/2009 10:17:20 PM
Author: Dancing Fire


Date: 4/4/2009 9:30:08 PM
Author:Taipan
Hello Folks,

My Cost: $3,300 (but retail is claimed to be 8250)

Thank you!
Taipan
if he can get $8250 for this stone then he ain't gonna sell it to you for $3300
are you dealing with a Asian Jeweler? if yes, he wants cash?
Ha! So very true "it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone." That being said, thus far my mind is at ease with this certified diamond. Not so much with the previous "F" color stone. When I asked for the "F" grade to be sent out for the certification another sales person that I have not interacted with started playing "Good cop bad cop" by saying, "You will have to purchase the diamond before we send it to be certified." I very directly replied, "That's silly and clearly defeats the purpose of my intent. If that is the case, I will not purchase anything from your company."

I understand your comment about the $8250retail, "Such great savings." I'm a business major (not that it really matters) and understand what you quite so eloquently
said. Thus, I phrase "claimed." On the other hand, I was told the $3,300 is 1% over cost. How legitimate does that sound? I find it doubtful that the company would take such a wash on their products. Where's the return? What is a realistic markup on a diamond... ballpark? Blue Nile has a couple of diamonds in my criteria that are $2,589 and $2,624.

I'm dealing with a company called Hannoush Jewelers. Many locals have said good things. Perhaps I'm a little more critical about my purchase. I asked if I could purchase a diamond elsewhere and have it placed in the setting/ring that I already have picked out. The answer was, "No, we travel the world and deal in non conflict diamonds" yada yada... That's when I began to become a skeptic and look into everything I am doing with them. I'm not ready to walk, but I am not done negotiating yet either.

Thinking aloud, perhaps I should order a Blue Nile diamond and save $800 and find another business that will place my stone in the Hannoush setting I desire.

But not to run off on a tangent... I digress...

Do the measurements look appropriate for a diamond priced at $3,300?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/4/2009 11:07:53 PM
Author: Taipan

Date: 4/4/2009 10:17:20 PM
Author: Dancing Fire



Date: 4/4/2009 9:30:08 PM
Author:Taipan
Hello Folks,

My Cost: $3,300 (but retail is claimed to be 8250)

Thank you!
Taipan
if he can get $8250 for this stone then he ain''t gonna sell it to you for $3300
are you dealing with a Asian Jeweler? if yes, he wants cash?
Ha! So very true ''it is always harder to find a ''mind clean'' stone than a eye clean stone.'' That being said, thus far my mind is at ease with this certified diamond. Not so much with the previous ''F'' color stone. When I asked for the ''F'' grade to be sent out for the certification another sales person that I have not interacted with started playing ''Good cop bad cop'' by saying, ''You will have to purchase the diamond before we send it to be certified.'' I very directly replied, ''That''s silly and clearly defeats the purpose of my intent. If that is the case, I will not purchase anything from your company.''

I understand your comment about the $8250retail, ''Such great savings.'' I''m a business major (not that it really matters) and understand what you quite so eloquently
said. Thus, I phrase ''claimed.'' On the other hand, I was told the $3,300 is 1% over cost. How legitimate does that sound? I find it doubtful that the company would take such a wash on their products. Where''s the return? What is a realistic markup on a diamond... ballpark? Blue Nile has a couple of diamonds in my criteria that are $2,589 and $2,624.

I''m dealing with a company called Hannoush Jewelers. Many locals have said good things. Perhaps I''m a little more critical about my purchase. I asked if I could purchase a diamond elsewhere and have it placed in the setting/ring that I already have picked out. The answer was, ''No, we travel the world and deal in non conflict diamonds'' yada yada... That''s when I began to become a skeptic and look into everything I am doing with them. I''m not ready to walk, but I am not done negotiating yet either.

Thinking aloud, perhaps I should order a Blue Nile diamond and save $800 and find another business that will place my stone in the Hannoush setting I desire.

But not to run off on a tangent... I digress...

Do the measurements look appropriate for a diamond priced at $3,300?
Would you consider looking at one of the vendors who sells excellently cut Princess with all the info provided so you can make an informed decision?

Take a look at these two vendors.

www.highperformancediamonds.com

www.goodoldgold.com

Both sell beautiful Princess.
 

Taipan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
5
Thank you for your reply lorielei,

I viewed the pages you suggested. I was better able to gain a perspective on the prices on similar (I believe) diamonds. Which, infact, are more on par with what I have at my local brick and mortar.

That gives me more of a confidence boost about the diamond I''m currently looking at. I need to do my homework and learn what the measurements mean. I''m assuming they''re ok for the price asked because I haven''t heard anyone say there is anything funky about them.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/5/2009 11:39:54 AM
Author: Taipan
Thank you for your reply lorielei,

I viewed the pages you suggested. I was better able to gain a perspective on the prices on similar (I believe) diamonds. Which, infact, are more on par with what I have at my local brick and mortar.

That gives me more of a confidence boost about the diamond I'm currently looking at. I need to do my homework and learn what the measurements mean. I'm assuming they're ok for the price asked because I haven't heard anyone say there is anything funky about them.
Taipan you are welcome!

I would use extreme caution with the diamond above, I really don't want to give you a confidence boost with it, it is very deep and the girdle variance is too extreme for me. Sorry I didn't see that you requested advice on the proportions earlier - but it does not appear to be a well cut diamond - although you can't tell much by numbers with these shapes, I can see enough which to me are flags. It is also likely that this diamond will not sparkle much away from the store lights and it could well look small for the weight. Also which EGL lab graded it? EGL USA are said to be the strongest of the EGL labs, so it is important to know which lab, EGL USA, Antwerp, Israel etc? I would really look around some more before committing to this diamond.

If you would consider lowering the colour and clarity a bit ( as it might not be accurately graded anyway depending) then you could maybe have the budget for a GIA or AGS graded Princess of better cut quality - and therefore a much more beautiful diamond. As a suggestion, you could look at F or G colour and SI1 clarity if eyeclean.
 

Taipan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
5
Date: 4/5/2009 11:41:11 AM
Author: Lorelei

Taipan you are welcome!

I would use extreme caution with the diamond above, I really don''t want to give you a confidence boost with it, it is very deep and the girdle variance is too extreme for me. Sorry I didn''t see that you requested advice on the proportions earlier - but it does not appear to be a well cut diamond - although you can''t tell much by numbers with these shapes, I can see enough which to me are flags. It is also likely that this diamond will not sparkle much away from the store lights and it could well look small for the weight. Also which EGL lab graded it? EGL USA are said to be the strongest of the EGL labs, so it is important to know which lab, EGL USA, Antwerp, Israel etc? I would really look around some more before committing to this diamond.

If you would consider lowering the colour and clarity a bit ( as it might not be accurately graded anyway depending) then you could maybe have the budget for a GIA or AGS graded Princess of better cut quality - and therefore a much more beautiful diamond. As a suggestion, you could look at F or G colour and SI1 clarity if eyeclean.
Its funny that you menion that it could look small for its weight. The "F" color uncert diamond was a .71. The Cert we''re discussing is a .70. When I held them side by side I told the jewler, "The .7 looks a bit smaller than the .71" He told me I shouldn''t be able to see a difference and that it was probably the setting it was in. Apparently, I could see the difference. That''s disconcerting. I''m feeling more and more like I''m dealing with a charming used car salesman.

To answer your question about the location of the EGL site. EGL - USA cert it is dated October 19, 2007 Los Angeles.

The diamond shimmers and sparkels like crazy compared to the uncertified diamond. Perhaps I can stand in the doorway of the shop to see if it will sparkel under normal light.

I''m begining to think I should start looking elsewhere in the region. I will keep in mind your suggestion about decreasing attributes for cost. I''m pretty steadfast on it being colorless. My understanding is the princess cut is less forgiving of colored stones. SI1 would not bother me at all as long as there are no obvious/large flaws.

Again, thank you for your replies Lorelei.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/5/2009 12:35:32 PM
Author: Taipan



Date: 4/5/2009 11:41:11 AM
Author: Lorelei

Taipan you are welcome!

I would use extreme caution with the diamond above, I really don't want to give you a confidence boost with it, it is very deep and the girdle variance is too extreme for me. Sorry I didn't see that you requested advice on the proportions earlier - but it does not appear to be a well cut diamond - although you can't tell much by numbers with these shapes, I can see enough which to me are flags. It is also likely that this diamond will not sparkle much away from the store lights and it could well look small for the weight. Also which EGL lab graded it? EGL USA are said to be the strongest of the EGL labs, so it is important to know which lab, EGL USA, Antwerp, Israel etc? I would really look around some more before committing to this diamond.

If you would consider lowering the colour and clarity a bit ( as it might not be accurately graded anyway depending) then you could maybe have the budget for a GIA or AGS graded Princess of better cut quality - and therefore a much more beautiful diamond. As a suggestion, you could look at F or G colour and SI1 clarity if eyeclean.
Its funny that you menion that it could look small for its weight. The 'F' color uncert diamond was a .71. The Cert we're discussing is a .70. When I held them side by side I told the jewler, 'The .7 looks a bit smaller than the .71' He told me I shouldn't be able to see a difference and that it was probably the setting it was in. Apparently, I could see the difference. That's disconcerting. I'm feeling more and more like I'm dealing with a charming used car salesman. As you noticed a difference then this diamond probably does face up small for its weight! I would really shop around a bit more - if you are open to buying online, then maybe we could take a look for you if you let us know your exact budget, colour and clarity preferences etc and we could make some suggestions for you.

To answer your question about the location of the EGL site. EGL - USA cert it is dated October 19, 2007 Los Angeles.

The diamond shimmers and sparkels like crazy compared to the uncertified diamond. Perhaps I can stand in the doorway of the shop to see if it will sparkel under normal light.

I'm begining to think I should start looking elsewhere in the region. I will keep in mind your suggestion about decreasing attributes for cost. I'm pretty steadfast on it being colorless. My understanding is the princess cut is less forgiving of colored stones. SI1 would not bother me at all as long as there are no obvious/large flaws. Definitely have a look at some GIA or AGS colourless and SI clarity if eyeclean, that might be a good ' recipe' for you if the cut is great. Some say Princess can hold body colour more easily if the cut is bad, conversely a well cut Princess can look a bit whiter for its colour grade, cut is a wonderful thing!

Again, thank you for your replies Lorelei. Very glad to help!
What you could do also if you have the time, is to purchase an ASET scope, you can take this with you and it would be of great help in evaluating any Princess. Or any diamond come to that!

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y

Chart you can use to interpret the results.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart_ASET.asp
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,543
Date: 4/5/2009 12:35:32 PM
Author: Taipan

Its funny that you menion that it could look small for its weight. The ''F'' color uncert diamond was a .71. The Cert we''re discussing is a .70. When I held them side by side I told the jewler, ''The .7 looks a bit smaller than the .71'' He told me I shouldn''t be able to see a difference and that it was probably the setting it was in. Apparently, I could see the difference. That''s disconcerting. I''m feeling more and more like I''m dealing with a charming used car salesman.
yes you are
like Lorelei said...the stone you are looking at is cut too deep with ex thick girdle.
 
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