ACA vs Hearts on Fire side by side comparison

[dhog]

Oops ~ wrong picture that was from yesterday.

 

[Joeys Minx]

That is a gorgeous ring! Great story and pics, thanx for sharing.

 

[MissGotRocks]

What a wonderful story and a beautiful ring! Please do tell us the story about the band - very different and beautiful as well!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 1/16/2006 1:41:47 PM
Author: Patty

And ya know, ''the world''s most brilliantly cut diamond in the world'' is just their opinion. Their stones are that much more expensive because they have to add in the cost to drill that slogan into your head.

I believe that their claim is "the worlds most perfectly cut diamond", which is of course complete puffery. Unfortunately their lawyers are pit bulls and they have sued anyone who uses perfectly in conjumction with the cut of their diamonds. For some reason the people in charge of trade marks have not disallowed such a ridiculous and provably false claim.

I can think of at least three brands that are equal to or better than this claimed to be most perfectly cut diamond which many of us in the trade consider to be a nice but definitely not the top of the line of H&A cut diamonds. Ya gotta love their advertising though, their vendors swear by them for driving so much traffic to their stores.

Wink

 

[JohnQuixote]

dhog, you should give macro photo lessons.

 

[BrownEyes]

Dhog and Ms. Dhog:

The diamonds in both rings are absolutely STUNNING! I loved your story and hope that Ms. Dhog gets to wear the rings in good health.

I was also Having myself been mis-led by a Hearts on Fire dealer locally who claimed that Whiteflash''s "A Cut Above" Hearts & Arrows cut was a ''copy'' of Hearts on Fire.

I subsequently learned taht ACA Hearts & Arrows actually came first.

Thanks for sharing your story!

 

[dhog]

Date: 1/16/2006 6:35:14 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
What a wonderful story and a beautiful ring! Please do tell us the story about the band - very different and beautiful as well!

It has .55c center stone 2 X .35c and 2 X .20c ~ all are SI 1 J color. 1.65 total weight in yellow gold.

My husband found the band in a small chain jewelry store (14 stores) at our local mall. I don''t know who the manufacture is. I loved it because it was so unique compared to all that is out there. To this point in our marriage he had not purchased any jewelry for us with the excetpion of the $10 band we used when we got married. So he redeemed himself with one purchase.

All my friends and co-workers have been amazed for years when they realize it is not a gold band but a band with diamonds.

The really hard part for us in the hunt for the Solitaire was to find the band that matched the one I had and made it look like a set that was bought at the same time.

I think I accomplished that when we got finished. Total weight of set 3.34

 

[MissGotRocks]

Oh, I think you did an excellent job matching the two rings. They are just made for each other - really spectacular!

Thanks again for sharing your story. If you run across any more pictures, bring ''em on!

 

[MissGotRocks]

One more thing - is the mounting for the stone from WF as well?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/16/2006 6:38:29 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 1/16/2006 1:41:47 PM
Author: Patty

And ya know, ''the world''s most brilliantly cut diamond in the world'' is just their opinion. Their stones are that much more expensive because they have to add in the cost to drill that slogan into your head.

I believe that their claim is ''the worlds most perfectly cut diamond'', which is of course complete puffery. Unfortunately their lawyers are pit bulls and they have sued anyone who uses perfectly in conjumction with the cut of their diamonds. For some reason the people in charge of trade marks have not disallowed such a ridiculous and provably false claim.

I can think of at least three brands that are equal to or better than this claimed to be most perfectly cut diamond which many of us in the trade consider to be a nice but definitely not the top of the line of H&A cut diamonds. Ya gotta love their advertising though, their vendors swear by them for driving so much traffic to their stores.

Wink

and Wink carries 2 of them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/16/2006 6:13:25 PM
Author: Patty
Wow, it''s a beautiful set and you got some GREAT pictures of it!

Tell us about the wedding band with the graduated stones. Is that new too?

And did Whiteflash do the setting of the solitaire?

I love yellow gold and your set is right up my alley!

Patty

Shhhee!!!!. i don''t tell people you love YG b/c then they will know your age.

btw; i love YG.

 

[Patty]

Date: 1/17/2006 4:23:37 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/16/2006 6:13:25 PM
Author: Patty
Wow, it''s a beautiful set and you got some GREAT pictures of it!

Tell us about the wedding band with the graduated stones. Is that new too?

And did Whiteflash do the setting of the solitaire?

I love yellow gold and your set is right up my alley!

Patty

Shhhee!!!!. i don''t tell people you love YG b/c then they will know your age.

btw; i love YG.

48 and counting.

 

[dhog]

Date: 1/16/2006 6:53:02 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
dhog, you should give macro photo lessons.

Photographing diamonds is the easy part, learning how to
catch fish with a camera is the hard part. I am actully a fishing
guide of 28 years.they call us the fishhog here on the rivers.thus the
screen name of dhog. D for diamond and yep you guessed it.we spent 3 days on a 35 ft. boat in Cabo learning how to catch marlin on a camera.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 1/17/2006 11:16:35 AM
Author: dhog

Date: 1/16/2006 6:53:02 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
dhog, you should give macro photo lessons.

Photographing diamonds is the easy part, learning how to
catch fish with a camera is the hard part. I am actully a fishing
guide of 28 years.they call us the fishhog here on the rivers.thus the
screen name of dhog. D for diamond and yep you guessed it.we spent 3 days on a 35 ft. boat in Cabo learning how to catch marlin on a camera.

And... you use actual precious metals in the crafting of your lures? For mastery of flashery?

 

[dhog]

Date: 1/17/2006 12:29:36 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 1/17/2006 11:16:35 AM

Author: dhog

Date: 1/16/2006 6:53:02 PM

Author: JohnQuixote

dhog, you should give macro photo lessons.

Photographing diamonds is the easy part, learning how to

catch fish with a camera is the hard part. I am actully a fishing

guide of 28 years.they call us the fishhog here on the rivers.thus the

screen name of dhog. D for diamond and yep you guessed it.we spent 3 days on a 35 ft. boat in Cabo learning how to catch marlin on a camera.

And... you use actual precious metals in the crafting of your lures? For mastery of flashery?

my website fishhogs.com is actully down for now. we are in the process of reworking it so hopefully now that this diamond thing is over I can get it finished. until then, yes all of our lures that we use have 18 carat gold and jewelry quality silver plating on them.they also come complete with austrian crystal beads some dating back to the 1950s.in developing these lures we worked with underwater scientists on the effects of color and flash at various depths and found out that the precise angles and the # of facets on crystal beads were the ticket to more fish at given depths.this is not a fish story,these are true facts.below you will see a marlin my wife was fighting in cabo.This makes this story even better bacause she also likes to fish. this may be getting a little of tract from this thread but to hunt down that Ultimate Jewel of the sea and be able to catch it on a camera is the ultimate in sport fishing. dhog

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 1/16/2006 7:44:08 PM
Author: BrownEyes

I subsequently learned taht ACA Hearts & Arrows actually came first.

Hmm, I am not sure that this is correct, it does not match my memory, but I am a geezer and my memory is NOT to be trusted unless I was personally involved and with this I was not.

Can you share with us more about this?

John Quixote, can you give us a timeline?

I do know the first Hearts and Arrows stones were produced about 4 years after the EightStars as a less expensive way to get the pattern that until then had been only found in the EightStar diamonds and that Hearts and Arrows is a trademarked name in Japan. (Boy, did THEY goof not covering their trademark in the states.!)

For many years the H&A stones were primarily cut for the Japanese market and were difficult and expensive to get in this country. My understanding of the timeline was that the owner of what was then DiaStar saw a couple on a trip to Antwerp and brought them to the States where he quickly sold them. The Japanese economy was in trouble at the time and there was available product that had been produced for that market that was then diverted to the Hearts on Fire company. At that time there were only a handful of companies cutting H&A quality stones, now there are a few hundred doing so. (or more)

Wink

P.S. I reserve the right to be completely wrong, this is what I have been told by people I think know, but I have NO FIRST HAND knowledge of this. (Wink''s full disclosure of possible ignorance...)

 

[Patty]

Wow, that is a GREAT shot!

 

[belle]

Date: 1/17/2006 2:32:41 PM
Author: Patty

Wow, that is a GREAT shot!

indeed! makes me wish i were out on the water right now!
(with a big aca sparkling in the sun)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 1/17/2006 2:22:20 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 1/16/2006 7:44:08 PM
Author: BrownEyes

I subsequently learned taht ACA Hearts & Arrows actually came first.

Hmm, I am not sure that this is correct, it does not match my memory, but I am a geezer and my memory is NOT to be trusted unless I was personally involved and with this I was not.

Can you share with us more about this?

John Quixote, can you give us a timeline?

Sure Wink. Hearts On Fire was branded in 1996. Brian Gavin’s first company, Alpha Creations, began specializing in H&A diamonds in 1995, but they were not sold as 'A Cut Above' until after HOF was introduced, so HOF came first.

ACA was the first branded H&A diamond to be sold exclusively on the internet - BrownEyes, perhaps that is what you'd heard.

Here is a rough timeline as I understand it:

In the 1970s and 80s Japanese gemologists and scientists became engaged in micro-studies of diamond cut. Kazumi Okuda, contracted by Tsuyoshi Shigetomi of Tokyo, developed tools for research which used colored reflectors. One of these reflector tools eventually became the Firescope, which permitted a display of the optical performance of all 57 facets of the round brilliant. Since that time, the Gilbertson-scope, Ideal-scope, ASET and others have evolved and serve similar purposes in the analysis of light performance.

In the 1980s, after years of research using the Firescope, a cutter named Kioyishi Higuchi produced the first Eightstar diamond in Japan for a businessman named Takanori Tamura.

In the late 1980s Shigetomi introduced a copy of Eightstar called ‘Apollon 8.’ The company did not last. Kinsaku Yamashita, an Apollon 8 employee, purchased the remaining inventory and renamed the cut ‘Hearts & Arrows.’ Yamashita also patented the H&A viewer. Somewhat different than the Firescope, it allowed the viewer to analyze the physical cut symmetry and alignment of facets in both the pavilion and crown of a diamond. The first ‘Hearts & Arrows’ diamonds were produced in Japan.

In the 1990s Superideal cuts reached America. Since that time standards for precision patterning have continued to evolve with developing technologies and improved tools.

Consider: The brilliant style of cutting has been around for several hundred years but the precision patterning found in Superideal diamonds has been possible for less than 20.

I do believe all sellers of H&A diamonds have benefited from HOF’s aggressive marketing campaign.

 

[Shay37]

Fascinating info in this thread. Thank you Wink and JohnQ.

What a beautiful set of rings you have. I love them. They really do look as if they match. Great job on that. I, of course, love ACA diamonds. They are beyond gorgeous. Don''t you love talking to Brian. He''s great!!! Wear your rings in the best of health, and enjoy each other always.

P.S. I love to fish too.

shay

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 1/17/2006 2:55:53 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

I do believe all sellers of H&A diamonds have benefited from HOF’s aggressive marketing campaign.

See what happens when you ask a young man who actually still has his brain? Thanks John. I was fairly close in my memory but without most of the details of your wonderful reply! As always, it is nice to know someone who really knows these things!

Wink

P.S. I agree with you that Hearts on Fire has done a good job of getting the puplic to be more aware of the H&A, but I think that it is also greatly the work of people like yourself, Paul Slegers, Richard von Sternberg, Gary Holloway, Serg, Loenid and others who have made their work largely available to the public through forums like Pricescope who have done their level best who truly have brought these magnificent diamonds to the forefront of the internet buying public's mind. I believe that all of you bring not only the knowledge but the understanding to the public rather than just the desire to own "the world's most perfectly cut diamond" through advertising hype.

 

[seeker78]

I think you did really well with this stone. In my personal opinion, (and also agreeing with wink), I would take a nice ACA over a hearts on fire any day of the week.

 

[sevens one]

What a beautiful set.
Love the ACA choice

 

[dhog]

Date: 1/17/2006 7:56:28 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 1/17/2006 2:55:53 PM

''the world''s most perfectly cut diamond'' through advertising hype.

per·fect·ly Pronunciation Key (pûrfkt-l)
adv.

1. In a perfect manner or to a perfect degree.
2. To a complete or full degree or extent; wholly: The diners were perfectly satisfied with the meal

adv 1: completely and without qualification; used informally as intensifiers; "an absolutely magnificent painting"; "a perfectly idiotic idea"; "you''re perfectly right"; "utterly miserable"; "you can be dead sure of my innocence"; "was dead tired"; "dead right" [syn: absolutely, utterly, dead] 2: in a perfect or faultless way; "She performed perfectly on the balance beam"; "spoke English perfectly"; "solved the problem perfectly" [ant: imperfectly]

per·fec·tion
Pronunciation Key (pr-fkshn)

1. The quality or condition of being perfect.
2. The act or process of perfecting: Perfection of the invention took years.
3. A person or thing considered to be perfect.
4. An instance of excellence.

In our case ACA was cut with such perfection that it shows
in these photo''s. dhog

 

[Jelly]

What a great story! Thanks so much for sharing and taking the time to do so much research. Enjoy your timeshare! Your wife is one lucky lady!

 

[lmurden]

Dhog,
What a beautiful wedding set. I absolutely love the center stone.

Your pictures are amazing!!! I''m really considering buying a camera just like yours.

Thanks for sharing!!!

 

[belle]

gosh i love this set...

 

[flower12]

Date: 1/17/2006 2:55:53 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 1/17/2006 2:22:20 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 1/16/2006 7:44:08 PM
Author: BrownEyes

I subsequently learned taht ACA Hearts & Arrows actually came first.

Hmm, I am not sure that this is correct, it does not match my memory, but I am a geezer and my memory is NOT to be trusted unless I was personally involved and with this I was not.

Can you share with us more about this?

John Quixote, can you give us a timeline?

Sure Wink. Hearts On Fire was branded in 1996. Brian Gavinfs first company, Alpha Creations, began specializing in H&A diamonds in 1995, but they were not sold as ''A Cut Above'' until after HOF was introduced, so HOF came first.

ACA was the first branded H&A diamond to be sold exclusively on the internet - BrownEyes, perhaps that is what you''d heard.

Here is a rough timeline as I understand it:

In the 1970s and 80s Japanese gemologists and scientists became engaged in micro-studies of diamond cut. Kazumi Okuda, contracted by Tsuyoshi Shigetomi of Tokyo, developed tools for research which used colored reflectors. One of these reflector tools eventually became the Firescope, which permitted a display of the optical performance of all 57 facets of the round brilliant. Since that time, the Gilbertson-scope, Ideal-scope, ASET and others have evolved and serve similar purposes in the analysis of light performance.

In the 1980s, after years of research using the Firescope, a cutter named Kioyishi Higuchi produced the first Eightstar diamond in Japan for a businessman named Takanori Tamura.

In the late 1980s Shigetomi introduced a copy of Eightstar called eApollon 8.f The company did not last. Kinsaku Yamashita, an Apollon 8 employee, purchased the remaining inventory and renamed the cut eHearts & Arrows.f Yamashita also patented the H&A viewer. Somewhat different than the Firescope, it allowed the viewer to analyze the physical cut symmetry and alignment of facets in both the pavilion and crown of a diamond. The first eHearts & Arrowsf diamonds were produced in Japan.

In the 1990s Superideal cuts reached America. Since that time standards for precision patterning have continued to evolve with developing technologies and improved tools.

Consider: The brilliant style of cutting has been around for several hundred years but the precision patterning found in Superideal diamonds has been possible for less than 20.

I do believe all sellers of H&A diamonds have benefited from HOFfs aggressive marketing campaign.

John , it''s very intresting. because I still hear Jewler call Apollon 8 and very populer cut in the japan

I didn''t know it mean H&A. I wonder all the time that how come diamond is so well sparkle
when I see diamond jewerly in the japan.also I have couple small ring which I bought from Japan
it''s best 5 sparkle from my collection.